The real impact (and suggestion) of Shuffle being locked under Medium Armor

sluice

This change will force people to be more tanky and group up even more together.
It's going to be a ton of fun to fight 35k+ health DK playing alongside their pocket healer.

This will also even push the meta torwards Magicka builds even more, making them even stronger than ever.
(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

This change is horrible if none of this is done "fix" Snares and healing.

• Remove some snares from the game
• Snares should be debufffs (therefore NOT stacking)
• More snare removal tools (Fighters Guild? Undaunted? Stamina based Elusive Mist Form? Immovable morph?)
• More burst healing option for stamina, outside of Rally (Fighters Guild? Undaunted? Per class?)
• Improve Medium Armor (there is clearly a balance issue between all 3 armor type, limiting the skill to 5 piece wearer is not the solution)
• Make Immovable more viable? (Everyone already runs with Immovable Pots. Every classe have very easy access to Major Resolve/Ward... Perhaps it could remove snares on activation?)

And let's face it this change hurts Stam DK the most. A lot less people would complain of this change if Green Dragon Blood was viable. (Equivalent of Coagulating but for Stamina?)

Forcing every stam toon to play 2H to use Rally is not very exciting and original, is it!?

Having 1 skill out of 4 snaring people isn't.

Being forced to play weak medium armor to not get snare (because Rally is a must, since all other burst healing source are crap) isn't either.

My suggestion to ZOS is this :

Please, push back this change, until you have a big look at the whole picture.
To get this right, a lot of tinkering and testing will need to be done. I'm sure the community will be more than happy to help.

Mayrael

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

GeorgeBlack

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

mb10

no.

DeadlyRecluse

sluice wrote: »

Having 1 skill out of 4 snaring people isn't.

This 100%. I've made a ranty post about this before, but they really need to look at removing a bunch of the free snares attached to good skills, and reducing the snare% of the ones that still exist.

I'm a big fan of shuffle being locked to medium, but the snares in this game are out of control. They always have been.

CyrusArya

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Mayrael

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

Kneighbors

I don't know why it wasn't like this since the skill release. Heavy armors casting harness magicka or shuffle is really wrong.

This change has 0 impact on PvE.

sluice

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Mettaricana

I always felt they should remove 5pc everything and make it per peice on all of them

Jawasa

This is a great change Finally stam heavy builds have to give up rally for snare removal or just suffer from low movment in exchange for tankyness.

pieratsos

Snares being broken is not a justification to revert one of the best changes this game has ever seen.
First you fix one stupid mechanic, then you fix the other. You dont keep them both in the game because one of them counters the other.

aeowulf

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

sluice

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

pieratsos

sluice wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

Says someone who is advocating for a stupid mechanic to stay in game because it counters another stupid mechanic.

sluice

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

Says someone who is advocating for a stupid mechanic to stay in game because it counters another stupid mechanic.

Please use real words in your arguments to make yourself more clear.
What is the stupid mechanic you are talking about? Shuffle?
What is the other stupid mechanic?

I don't quite follow you.

For what I'm concern, is if there is anything stupid in this game right now is how much snares are in it right now and how they can all stack.

The second most stupid thing I find is how stamina are all forced to use Rally to heal ourself in PvP, unless you are a Stamwarden. (Talk about diversity!)

Wreuntzylla

I don't get it. As far as I can tell, neither perma-dodgers nor shield stackers are currently wearing heavy armor. At least, not the ones that have a great offense to go with that perfect defense.

SanTii.92

sluice wrote: »

This change will force people to be more tanky

This whole "ZoS nerfs tanks, so it will obviously push people into building even more tanky" got to be one of the most ridiculous line of thoughts ever thrown on this forums.

Mayrael

sluice wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Well thats strange because Im sure Ive seen like dosens of stamblades in medium (roll, roll, roll) insta killing any light or medium armor users, while still being able to survive (im gonna tell you a secret, roll dodge combined with cloak and shadowy image when used with just a little bit of brain will give you 99% chance to escape but dont tell anyone, we dont want to show that we dont need a buff do we?)

1. Retreating Manuever - perfect skill for you and your group if we talk about "snares everywhere" - I know i know you will say "to high cost!" rly? What options have magicka user? Well... Efficient purge - cost a bit less but it wont guarantee you that snare will be removed because it removes 2 negative effects so in most scenarios you will be forced to cast it more than once. Yes magicka toons can roll out of roots to... and then get stuned and have no stamina to break free.

2. Did you even try to understand what I was writing bro? About light and medium armor? if you would read carefuly you would know that you are agreeing with me - you just proved my statement - its not because of light armor magsorcs and magblades are viable - its because of their tool set. And guess what? Same as magplar in light is not the best but viable the same are stamblades, stamdks and the rest of company - not the best but still viable... till you wont get ganked, overrun by few folks and so on...

3. Yes there are some differences between magicka and stamina toons power, but stop acting like stamina toons suddenly became unplayable. Why? Because you will no longer be able to use Shuffle with heavy armor? Lmao!

pieratsos

sluice wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

Says someone who is advocating for a stupid mechanic to stay in game because it counters another stupid mechanic.

Please use real words in your arguments to make yourself more clear.
What is the stupid mechanic you are talking about? Shuffle?
What is the other stupid mechanic?

I don't quite follow you.

For what I'm concern, is if there is anything stupid in this game right now is how much snares are in it right now and how they can all stack.

The second most stupid thing I find is how stamina are all forced to use Rally to heal ourself in PvP, unless you are a Stamwarden. (Talk about diversity!)

I used real words in my argument. You just chose to ignore them so ill repeat them again and ill analyze them even further.

The stupid mechanic is major evasion on heavy. Its part of this stupid tank meta and it has to go. Snares are broken. Snares need to be looked at. Thats still not a justification to have shuffle on heavy because it just happens to remove snares too.
You dont fix your problem this way. You make it worse. Remove shuffle from heavy and then you fix snares.

And if you ask me, i dont even believe that snare removal should be easy to access for heavy armor. Part of getting the tankiness of heavy is giving up mobility. Thats how it should be but atm thats not the case. The problem arises from the fact that snares and roots are so broken that it forces the need to have some sort of snare removal on any build you play.

So what needs to happen, is to completely rework the snare system. Make it the counterpart of expedition buffs and put those snare debuffs on abilities and playstyles that actually need them and not on every skill line in the game. Exactly like expedition works. Also, snare removal shouldnt be easily accessed otherwise it would make the new balanced snare system useless. Snare removal should be available on playstyles that actually revolve around mobility.

In any case, major evasion on heavy shouldnt be a thing, just like shields on heavy shouldnt be a thing.

Rohamad_Ali

Good change but it does nothing from stopping heavy armor from getting similar effects to evasion . Blessed Pariah builds don't rely on shuffle . Instead of dodge attackers just miss all the time .

scipionumatia

sluice wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Check out baker of cakes, he's a yellow stamblade and stam sorc on Xbox na. Not sure what he runs pvp stam sorc but all
Of his stamblade builds are medium armor. Granted he's still a NB tho.
I agree with your post, but check him out on YouTube bakers play style is pretty unique and he doesn't really go meta

CyrusArya

Mayrael wrote: »

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

I think medium can be strong and in certain cases competitive with light. I don't think the difference is so great that either is gimped or over powered. But the main issue for me is that light has access to damage shields, which overtime have been pretty consistent in regards to what and how they mitigate. In comparison, the main and unique defensive mechanics for medium armor (dodge rolling) has seen time and time again the introduction of skills or changes to skills that completely by pass dodging. This has affected the balance of power over time.

I personally enjoy playing in medium and I do agree it can be strong. But having played light, medium, and heavy lately it does feel like medium is under performing a bit. Stamplar and nightblade can do quite alright in medium thanks to their class skills and passives. But I honestly cant think of a medium dk or sorc build thats competitive with meta light or heavy armor set ups.

sluice

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

Says someone who is advocating for a stupid mechanic to stay in game because it counters another stupid mechanic.

Please use real words in your arguments to make yourself more clear.
What is the stupid mechanic you are talking about? Shuffle?
What is the other stupid mechanic?

I don't quite follow you.

For what I'm concern, is if there is anything stupid in this game right now is how much snares are in it right now and how they can all stack.

The second most stupid thing I find is how stamina are all forced to use Rally to heal ourself in PvP, unless you are a Stamwarden. (Talk about diversity!)

I used real words in my argument. You just chose to ignore them so ill repeat them again and ill analyze them even further.

The stupid mechanic is major evasion on heavy. Its part of this stupid tank meta and it has to go. Snares are broken. Snares need to be looked at. Thats still not a justification to have shuffle on heavy because it just happens to remove snares too.
You dont fix your problem this way. You make it worse. Remove shuffle from heavy and then you fix snares.

And if you ask me, i dont even believe that snare removal should be easy to access for heavy armor. Part of getting the tankiness of heavy is giving up mobility. Thats how it should be but atm thats not the case. The problem arises from the fact that snares and roots are so broken that it forces the need to have some sort of snare removal on any build you play.

So what needs to happen, is to completely rework the snare system. Make it the counterpart of expedition buffs and put those snare debuffs on abilities and playstyles that actually need them and not on every skill line in the game. Exactly like expedition works. Also, snare removal shouldnt be easily accessed otherwise it would make the new balanced snare system useless. Snare removal should be available on playstyles that actually revolve around mobility.

In any case, major evasion on heavy shouldnt be a thing, just like shields on heavy shouldnt be a thing.

Disclamer : People run Shuffle for removing snares, not for the 15% dodge chance.

Izaki

I mean Shuffle is good and all, but in heavy armor its practically useless since it doesn't give you any sort of snare immunity (unless of course you're wearing 2 medium pieces on top of the heavy). What was OP however, was the dodge chance paired with near-capped resistances and insane healing.

KingJ

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I don't get it. As far as I can tell, neither perma-dodgers nor shield stackers are currently wearing heavy armor. At least, not the ones that have a great offense to go with that perfect defense.

You can't perma dodge there a cost increase.Plus there so many dodgeable abilities trying to build a perma dodge build is pointless.

KingJ

Izaki wrote: »

I mean Shuffle is good and all, but in heavy armor its practically useless since it doesn't give you any sort of snare immunity (unless of course you're wearing 2 medium pieces on top of the heavy). What was OP however, was the dodge chance paired with near-capped resistances and insane healing.

I always found 5-2 Is better than 5-1-1 playing heavy stam.There not that many dodgeable abilities unless yoiur fighting other stambuilds.

KingJ

scipionumatia wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Check out baker of cakes, he's a yellow stamblade and stam sorc on Xbox na. Not sure what he runs pvp stam sorc but all
Of his stamblade builds are medium armor. Granted he's still a NB tho.
I agree with your post, but check him out on YouTube bakers play style is pretty unique and he doesn't really go meta

Open world meduim is fine on a stamblade its the only class that can run meduim open world.Play meduim open world on anything else and your screwed. Meduim is bad only thing it provide now over heavy is snare remove and crit.I will have better healing and damage reduction in heavy even on a stamblade and just as much weapon damage.

Xsorus

KingJ wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Check out baker of cakes, he's a yellow stamblade and stam sorc on Xbox na. Not sure what he runs pvp stam sorc but all
Of his stamblade builds are medium armor. Granted he's still a NB tho.
I agree with your post, but check him out on YouTube bakers play style is pretty unique and he doesn't really go meta

Open world meduim is fine on a stamblade its the only class that can run meduim open world.Play meduim open world on anything else and your screwed. Meduim is bad only thing it provide now over heavy is snare remove and crit.I will have better healing and damage reduction in heavy even on a stamblade and just as much weapon damage.

I play medium on a stam sorc and I do fine

KingJ

Xsorus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Haha nice try to buff stamina toons while only the ones using heavy armor will suffer "slight" nerf - slight because as all shuffle users stated its perfectly balanced skill so where is the problem? You still can run builds you used to, you have now one free skill slot to use... Do it wiseley Best regards:)

You mean by changing Rally for Forward Momentum or by simply unslotting Shuffle and getting snared to death?

Mayrael wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

(And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

Lmao, Freudian slip? You’re right tho, magicka builds are quite a treat when playing a broken heavy stam build. This is a great change and should have happened a year ago. As it stands, you can hit the same damage and sustain benchmarks while being immensely more survivable in heavy than medium. It makes the latter obsolete. Heavy stam needs to die, or at the very least make sacrifices the way heavy magicka does.

That being said I totally agree that snares need not come attached to every other skill in the game. A major/minor system would also be nice. And yes medium definitely needs a buff Cus it does underperforms compared to light and heavy both. But it needs to be a reasonable buff and nothing too drastic like when they initially buffed heavy. I disagree that stam needs more burst heals though.

Does the medium rly underperforms when compared to light? Or is your opinion biased by certain builds? Magplar in light armor vs Stamplar in medium, which will win? Stam dk vs Mag dk? Can we say its the armor that makes the biggest difference? I wouldnt be so sure. When you look at passives, tbh light armor is a bit weaker than medium armor but why we can get the impression that medium underperforms is because mag sorcs and magblades managed to create competetive builds. Not because light armor is so awesome but because of class skills In terms of PvP tbh medium builds are quite awesome right now but require more skill than heavy stamina

On the top of my head, just to name 3x light armor users that are strong in PvP right now :

Magplar in light can heal themselves very nicely .
Not only they have a great burst heal skill, there main DPS skills heals them at the same time...
(I still prefer heavy for magplar, but light is perfectly viable)
+They can purge anything.

Magsorc are all light. With Hardened Ward / Harness Magicka, they don't need anything else.
Streak + the fact they are ranged, mean they can avoir most snares and get out of trouble when snared.

Magblade in light is also very viable. (Although they are also stronger in heavy). They can stack so many heal over time and rely on Healing Ward to survive easily.


But for medium armor, I can't really think of anyone that uses full Medium armor builds with success right now, except perhaps some stamblades that rely mainly an ganking and sneaking.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I like the change. Heavy/light armor users should not use a med armor skill. In fact I'd like that skill deleted from the game. I play stamDK btw.

I want to see momentum in FG. I want to see FG skills improved.
This is what makes the game better. Not evasion

What are you going to do next patch? Go full Medium?

Check out baker of cakes, he's a yellow stamblade and stam sorc on Xbox na. Not sure what he runs pvp stam sorc but all
Of his stamblade builds are medium armor. Granted he's still a NB tho.
I agree with your post, but check him out on YouTube bakers play style is pretty unique and he doesn't really go meta

Open world meduim is fine on a stamblade its the only class that can run meduim open world.Play meduim open world on anything else and your screwed. Meduim is bad only thing it provide now over heavy is snare remove and crit.I will have better healing and damage reduction in heavy even on a stamblade and just as much weapon damage.

I play medium on a stam sorc and I do fine

@Xsorus You play DW/S&b if I remember correctly.If I'm wrong please correct me.You would preform better running a heavy setup.You hurt yourself running S&B on a Meduim build imo but s&b allow you to deal with the BS that makes meduim so bad.

pieratsos

sluice wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

I like the change. I honestly can't see why this wan't always the case. Not having this change is like someone using a healing skill without a healing staff equipped, or even allowing a dk to use sorc skills.

I would even go so far as making these skills require 7 pieces to use the morphs.

Lol wow, good thing you don't work for ZOS! Nice way to make Undaunted passives useless and make the game even more casual.

Says someone who is advocating for a stupid mechanic to stay in game because it counters another stupid mechanic.

Please use real words in your arguments to make yourself more clear.
What is the stupid mechanic you are talking about? Shuffle?
What is the other stupid mechanic?

I don't quite follow you.

For what I'm concern, is if there is anything stupid in this game right now is how much snares are in it right now and how they can all stack.

The second most stupid thing I find is how stamina are all forced to use Rally to heal ourself in PvP, unless you are a Stamwarden. (Talk about diversity!)

I used real words in my argument. You just chose to ignore them so ill repeat them again and ill analyze them even further.

The stupid mechanic is major evasion on heavy. Its part of this stupid tank meta and it has to go. Snares are broken. Snares need to be looked at. Thats still not a justification to have shuffle on heavy because it just happens to remove snares too.
You dont fix your problem this way. You make it worse. Remove shuffle from heavy and then you fix snares.

And if you ask me, i dont even believe that snare removal should be easy to access for heavy armor. Part of getting the tankiness of heavy is giving up mobility. Thats how it should be but atm thats not the case. The problem arises from the fact that snares and roots are so broken that it forces the need to have some sort of snare removal on any build you play.

So what needs to happen, is to completely rework the snare system. Make it the counterpart of expedition buffs and put those snare debuffs on abilities and playstyles that actually need them and not on every skill line in the game. Exactly like expedition works. Also, snare removal shouldnt be easily accessed otherwise it would make the new balanced snare system useless. Snare removal should be available on playstyles that actually revolve around mobility.

In any case, major evasion on heavy shouldnt be a thing, just like shields on heavy shouldnt be a thing.

Disclamer : People run Shuffle for removing snares, not for the 15% dodge chance.

Yes im sure major evasion makes zero difference. Lol