Clever Alchemist in PTS 3.2.3

Xsorus

Maulkin wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This doesn't stop bombing, lmao. It's just to prevent quick switching alchemist for another 5pc after you proc it

How would this change effect that? From what I’m reading you can still quick switch it; you just need to be in combat when you pop the potion

You can't change items while in combat. If you pop the potion out of combat, you waste the potion cooldown without the set proc'ing. If you pop it in combat, you can't change sets before the effect wears off.

I get what you’re saying now; I was thinking back baring it

LegacyDM

BohnT wrote: »

You know how to still gank with this nerf?
Just do a light attack with your bow before you use ambush and use the potion when the La hits.

The change affects 1 playstyle that will be viable after the nerf and always will be unless they remove stealth entirely.

Not smart. You would lose your sneak attack bonus to a la instead of using it on ambush or snipe. Sure you can still use ca on your ambush but the sneak attack bonus goes bye bye.

LegacyDM

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This doesn't stop bombing, lmao. It's just to prevent quick switching alchemist for another 5pc after you proc it

With the change it prevent using ca to gain a sneak attack bonus.

Narvuntien

You destroied my chatacter.

Now I can no longer play thanks

I hate you.

How about you just have the buff leave when you take off the gear instead of removing my ability to play the game.

Teeba_Shei

Narvuntien wrote: »

You destroied my chatacter.

Now I can no longer play thanks

I hate you.

Quoted for truth.

Narvuntien

This means all I'll be able to do now is man siege in PVP.

You just removed all of my fun.

The_Protagonist

I understand now ESO, I always thought it meant Elder Scrolls Online, when it really means Elder Scorcs Online

Worst change ever to a set after removing crit from proc sets. Boooooo

Feanor

Didn't we get told in the Miat's PvP alerts complaint threads that audio and visual cues are good enough and the intended way to play? If you enter combat the combat music starts and the cross hair changes (the latter one could be an addon effect though, I don't play without as the base game UI is so horrible).

There you have your indicator.

ToRelax

Feanor wrote: »

Didn't we get told in the Miat's PvP alerts complaint threads that audio and visual cues are good enough and the intended way to play? If you enter combat the combat music starts and the cross hair changes (the latter one could be an addon effect though, I don't play without as the base game UI is so horrible).

There you have your indicator.

Actually, combat music and combat mode are distinct and not tied to each other.

Feanor

ToRelax wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Didn't we get told in the Miat's PvP alerts complaint threads that audio and visual cues are good enough and the intended way to play? If you enter combat the combat music starts and the cross hair changes (the latter one could be an addon effect though, I don't play without as the base game UI is so horrible).

There you have your indicator.

Actually, combat music and combat mode are distinct and not tied to each other.

Really? How do they differ? I was under the impression that the music starts once you enter combat. I'm fairly certain that my cross hair behaves like this, but that might be an addon effect.

TheYKcid

Being unable to pre-buff with Alch ruins it for a large chunk of the scenarios (ganking) for which it was used. This change definitely needs to be reconsidered.

Just remove then Alch proc effect if and only if someone changes their equipment loadout. Barswapping obviously shouldn't qualify for removal, since many people like to backbar Alch.

Sigma957

It's been abused for far too long using alchemist on the back bar to buff then weapon swap to full damage to one shot people where there is no counter play at all, a welcome change

Maulkin

The_Protagonist wrote: »

I understand now ESO, I always thought it meant Elder Scrolls Online, when it really means Elder Scorcs Online

Worst change ever to a set after removing crit from proc sets. Boooooo

You are source of amusement, I'll give you that.

Sigma957 wrote: »

It's been abused for far too long using alchemist on the back bar to buff then weapon swap to full damage to one shot people where there is no counter play at all, a welcome change

I don't think you read the changes, backbarring it will still work fine.

Sigma957

There why is there so much grief about it if it still works on the back bar, just because you have to do it in combat and yes I did read the notes. Where is the fun for the person that gets oneshotted all the time

Maulkin

Sigma957 wrote: »

There why is there so much grief about it if it still works on the back bar, just because you have to do it in combat and yes I did read the notes. Where is the fun for the person that gets oneshotted all the time

Because it is not easily usable by stealth-gank builds, so the people who played that way are complaining. For every one else there's 0 change

ToRelax

Feanor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Didn't we get told in the Miat's PvP alerts complaint threads that audio and visual cues are good enough and the intended way to play? If you enter combat the combat music starts and the cross hair changes (the latter one could be an addon effect though, I don't play without as the base game UI is so horrible).

There you have your indicator.

Actually, combat music and combat mode are distinct and not tied to each other.

Really? How do they differ? I was under the impression that the music starts once you enter combat. I'm fairly certain that my cross hair behaves like this, but that might be an addon effect.

They are simply not connected as far as I can tell. You can hear combat music already when someone starts attacking you, even if no one ever gets hit and thus combat never actually starts. Or the combat music stops long before you leave combat mode, as you are stuck thanks to HoTs for example.

BigBadVolk

SOooo, I can decon it and change back to Spinner bombing?

nCats

Aurielle wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

In years from now, we'll speak of the time NBs had alchemist, selene and viper to gank with LOL


I have no idea what to think of this change but I thought the set was only ever used by gankers... Did they think this change would mean gankers dont use it anymore and others will...?
Nope its just a useless set now tbh.

Fengrush runs Clever Alchemist on his StamSorc. I've also seen others running it on StamDK. It gives you health which pairs well with heavy armor and allows you to have high burst potential whenever you want it.

I use Clever Alchemist with Sword-Singer on my 5 HA/2 MA Stamplar. By NO means a perfect build, but I still have a lot of fun popping a potion just before I nab someone with a particularly nasty Executioner or Onslaught. I use it as the devs intended, but I can see why those who enjoy opening a fight with a lot of burst damage in LA/MA would be unhappy.

Same pretty much, with variations Ravager/Viper/Automaton instead of SwordSinger. Such builds will not suffer, but hey, thats not all builds.

Those who say that it is easy have not seen what bombing looks like. Watch old Sypher videos for example. Yes you may be able to adapt but your positioning will suffer much more, hence much less success rate.

Narvuntien

Okay I have 400 to +999 ping and 60 that drops to 2 FPS in combat. PVP combat is like a strobe light jumping all over the place.
Tell me how do I kill someone?

I have to set up before the fight starts because I lag out when I get close to someone.

So yeah I played a gank build because that is the only way that I am able to play.. the lag the fps drop in combat is just tooo high to be able to play PVP at all.

It is gank or not play PVP at all.

Qbiken

BigBadVolk wrote: »

SOooo, I can decon it and change back to Spinner bombing?

yes

Feanor

Narvuntien wrote: »

Okay I have 400 to +999 ping and 60 that drops to 2 FPS in combat. PVP combat is like a strobe light jumping all over the place.
Tell me how do I kill someone?

I have to set up before the fight starts because I lag out when I get close to someone.

So yeah I played a gank build because that is the only way that I am able to play.. the lag the fps drop in combat is just tooo high to be able to play PVP at all.

It is gank or not play PVP at all.

While I have sympathy for your connection issues the argument itself is a bit silly. It's like saying "give me a one shot kill button because I lag so hard".

Olupajmibanan

Clever Alch change is clear example of ZOS's work. Even the most poor worker from a field would intuitively know that when you use pot with CA and then put CA in your bag, the buff wears off. It did not wear off thus it was a bug and needed to be fixed.

ZOS is clearly too lazy (the better case) or incompetent (the worse case) to fix it properly. So they rather change it completely. This is so much easier to do for them and they do not read forums at all so no rage post can affect them.

BigBadVolk

Qbiken wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

SOooo, I can decon it and change back to Spinner bombing?

yes

THank god I didnt deconned it like bsw also did anyone tried if war maiden could work with tether bombing (because technically you use magic damage there mostly except groth

Qbiken

BigBadVolk wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

BigBadVolk wrote: »

SOooo, I can decon it and change back to Spinner bombing?

yes

THank god I didnt deconned it like bsw also did anyone tried if war maiden could work with tether bombing (because technically you use magic damage there mostly except groth

Hey, that´s pretty good , didn´t think of warmaiden and BSW. Need to try them both (since I have both on my magblade) and see what works best.

SanTii.92

Jake1576 wrote: »

This change will ruin peoples builds who use clever alchemist to gank with do not allow this change to go to live

Fine, one shots from stealth are such a toxic mechanic that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

BohnT

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Jake1576 wrote: »

This change will ruin peoples builds who use clever alchemist to gank with do not allow this change to go to live

Fine, one shots from stealth are such a toxic mechanic that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

Just like Shieldstacking, restoult, S&B ult, warden trees, cost poisons and on and on.
Thankfully they started and hopefully they will nerf all of these things

SanTii.92

LegacyDM wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This doesn't stop bombing, lmao. It's just to prevent quick switching alchemist for another 5pc after you proc it

With the change it prevent using ca to gain a sneak attack bonus.

Which is meaningless to bomblades.

HeroOfNone

Hi there folks, I'll take partial responsibility for reporting this issue to ZOS.

Most of you seem to be viewing this as anti-gank, but it's not, this is anti-exploit. Folks started to notice a pattern with certain Nightblade streamers: proc clever alchemist, buff up, swap sets, swap abilities, and then attack. All the changes were made with just a few clicks of macro buttons and addons that swap gear sets & skills. These individuals would enjoy excessive weapon damage while also getting high health and stamina, great for oneshotting players. Then, being nightblades, they could stealth, get out of combat, and repeat.

Personally, I hope this is just the start of a few changes. There are several other similar sets being exploited in similar fashion, most revolving around the Nightblade and how their cloak ability let's them get out of combat quick to swap out armor & abilities. If it were to be made the most simple I'd say when an item set procs or an ability is used, you shouldn't be able to swap gear till the effect is gone.

My final thought: This is not the the way the game was meant to be played, and many of you exploiting this know that. If you feel differently though feel free to reply and admit you were using this gear swap method and try to justify it. I haven't seen one yet but I know you Nightblade mains are hiding out there, upset that your exploit is getting fixed but unable to say why.

Azurya

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Hi there folks, I'll take partial responsibility for reporting this issue to ZOS.

Most of you seem to be viewing this as anti-gank, but it's not, this is anti-exploit. Folks started to notice a pattern with certain Nightblade streamers: proc clever alchemist, buff up, swap sets, swap abilities, and then attack. All the changes were made with just a few clicks of macro buttons and addons that swap gear sets & skills. These individuals would enjoy excessive weapon damage while also getting high health and stamina, great for oneshotting players. Then, being nightblades, they could stealth, get out of combat, and repeat.

Personally, I hope this is just the start of a few changes. There are several other similar sets being exploited in similar fashion, most revolving around the Nightblade and how their cloak ability let's them get out of combat quick to swap out armor & abilities. If it were to be made the most simple I'd say when an item set procs or an ability is used, you shouldn't be able to swap gear till the effect is gone.

My final thought: This is not the the way the game was meant to be played, and many of you exploiting this know that. If you feel differently though feel free to reply and admit you were using this gear swap method and try to justify it. I haven't seen one yet but I know you Nightblade mains are hiding out there, upset that your exploit is getting fixed but unable to say why.

ah, but it makes sense to play the game with addons which tell you when an attack is coming out of stealth?
You have funny sights on "what the game is meant to be"..............

BigBadVolk

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Hi there folks, I'll take partial responsibility for reporting this issue to ZOS.

Most of you seem to be viewing this as anti-gank, but it's not, this is anti-exploit. Folks started to notice a pattern with certain Nightblade streamers: proc clever alchemist, buff up, swap sets, swap abilities, and then attack. All the changes were made with just a few clicks of macro buttons and addons that swap gear sets & skills. These individuals would enjoy excessive weapon damage while also getting high health and stamina, great for oneshotting players. Then, being nightblades, they could stealth, get out of combat, and repeat.

Personally, I hope this is just the start of a few changes. There are several other similar sets being exploited in similar fashion, most revolving around the Nightblade and how their cloak ability let's them get out of combat quick to swap out armor & abilities. If it were to be made the most simple I'd say when an item set procs or an ability is used, you shouldn't be able to swap gear till the effect is gone.

My final thought: This is not the the way the game was meant to be played, and many of you exploiting this know that. If you feel differently though feel free to reply and admit you were using this gear swap method and try to justify it. I haven't seen one yet but I know you Nightblade mains are hiding out there, upset that your exploit is getting fixed but unable to say why.

Yep, that exploit is/was bad, but it'd have been better if they would just simply make it like if you unslot it you lose the buff, not make it into what it is, but tbh I mostly will only use it during sieges and such, and for others spinner will be fine, same for gankers. The problem is, that most exploiters will still find their way, to exploit such things, and if ZoS keeps "fixing" these things like this that will just further ruin the pvp part of the game (and I dont necessary only blame ZoS, but exploiters too its mostly their fault)
But at least, they try to do something against those people, just not necessary the best way