(NA) RIP SOTHA SIL, Goodbye no-cp pvp dream =(

Prince_of_all_Pugs

Well it was great while it lasted but sotha sil is finished. Its population is gone and with it the PVP. If there is anyone left on sotha sil, maybe they can migrate to Shor and see what happens. Until then however, congrats Vivec, your the last populated pvp campaign (that is not non-vet).

Vilestride

Really been enjoying the fresh faces of the DC guilds that came to vivec from sotha. Good fights so far.

HiImRex

funny we brought our 5 man to EP on sotha last night and instantly reset the map from gates to a solid 1/3 of the map

but I agree sotha is dead af

LegacyDM

It's not a good sign that non cp is dead. It means that ZOS is not recruiting new pvp players. Remember, non cp was supposed to be the gap between low cp post lvl 50 and max cp players in Vivec. Remember all those people whining about cp gap pre morrowind? My theory is now all those players have reached max cp and graduated from non cp campaign and there hasn't been a backfill of fresh new players. + the balance changes to cp in morrowind has become more appealing to people.

Zos will never kill no cp. they will always need a place for potential new players to go to avoid the cp gap.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

LegacyDM wrote: »

It's not a good sign that non cp is dead. It means that ZOS is not recruiting new pvp players. Remember, non cp was supposed to be the gap between low cp post lvl 50 and max cp players in Vivec. Remember all those people whining about cp gap pre morrowind? My theory is now all those players have reached max cp and graduated from non cp campaign and there hasn't been a backfill of fresh new players. + the balance changes to cp in morrowind has become more appealing to people.

Zos will never kill no cp. they will always need a place for potential new players to go to avoid the cp gap.

yea but theres NO pop.

Vilestride

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

It's not a good sign that non cp is dead. It means that ZOS is not recruiting new pvp players. Remember, non cp was supposed to be the gap between low cp post lvl 50 and max cp players in Vivec. Remember all those people whining about cp gap pre morrowind? My theory is now all those players have reached max cp and graduated from non cp campaign and there hasn't been a backfill of fresh new players. + the balance changes to cp in morrowind has become more appealing to people.

Zos will never kill no cp. they will always need a place for potential new players to go to avoid the cp gap.

yea but theres NO pop.

It is concerning that there are no new players to fill this campaign . But just to be clear that is the issue right? Not that players are moving away from this campaign once they have felt they are prepared to? I understand this to be the consensus of at least one of the guilds that recently left there. They felt they were ready to seek more stable competition. This guild can correct me if this is inaccurate.

Prince_of_all_Pugs

yes the lack of new players is the issue. in the past there was always enough for a healthy exchange of players between campaigns, but no longer. now its dead af. There are alot of reasons why this had happened but its also because of a certain player i dont wanna name.

FENGRUSH

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

yes the lack of new players is the issue. in the past there was always enough for a healthy exchange of players between campaigns, but no longer. now its dead af. There are alot of reasons why this had happened but its also because of a certain player i dont wanna name.

The one who shall remained unnamed.

Drakkdjinn

Crutch Point PvP les gooo

usmcjdking

Vilestride wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

It's not a good sign that non cp is dead. It means that ZOS is not recruiting new pvp players. Remember, non cp was supposed to be the gap between low cp post lvl 50 and max cp players in Vivec. Remember all those people whining about cp gap pre morrowind? My theory is now all those players have reached max cp and graduated from non cp campaign and there hasn't been a backfill of fresh new players. + the balance changes to cp in morrowind has become more appealing to people.

Zos will never kill no cp. they will always need a place for potential new players to go to avoid the cp gap.

yea but theres NO pop.

It is concerning that there are no new players to fill this campaign . But just to be clear that is the issue right? Not that players are moving away from this campaign once they have felt they are prepared to? I understand this to be the consensus of at least one of the guilds that recently left there. They felt they were ready to seek more stable competition. This guild can correct me if this is inaccurate.

Not quite. There are plenty of new players to fill the campaign. The issue is twofold -

- Not enough experienced pug wranglers or pug wrangling coverage throughout the day.
- Non-competetive PVP during pretty much all hours of the day.

It's not that there is a lack of PVP, it's that it's non-competetive. Take a resource midday? Good luck dealing with 10+ resource patrollers who will ulti-dump you. The only competetive PVP is often between the two losing faction, who then proceed to lose everything as their map control (or lack thereof) starts to spread them apart. These people don't go to a new campaign like a more seasoned PVPer might do - they go back to doing whatever they were doing in PVE land.

Solo players can't play effectively there because there is no available faction to contest the faction stack that occurs in trikeeps, therefore the soloer is on the recieving end of AP hungry bees. Small groups don't typically go threre because you are in an automatically losing proposition in that there is no one to fight but you. Even the self-professed solo/small groupers on the winning faction will resort to the faction stacking because that is literally the only PVP you will find on the map.

Drakkdjinn

usmcjdking wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

It's not a good sign that non cp is dead. It means that ZOS is not recruiting new pvp players. Remember, non cp was supposed to be the gap between low cp post lvl 50 and max cp players in Vivec. Remember all those people whining about cp gap pre morrowind? My theory is now all those players have reached max cp and graduated from non cp campaign and there hasn't been a backfill of fresh new players. + the balance changes to cp in morrowind has become more appealing to people.

Zos will never kill no cp. they will always need a place for potential new players to go to avoid the cp gap.

yea but theres NO pop.

It is concerning that there are no new players to fill this campaign . But just to be clear that is the issue right? Not that players are moving away from this campaign once they have felt they are prepared to? I understand this to be the consensus of at least one of the guilds that recently left there. They felt they were ready to seek more stable competition. This guild can correct me if this is inaccurate.

Not quite. There are plenty of new players to fill the campaign. The issue is twofold -

- Not enough experienced pug wranglers or pug wrangling coverage throughout the day.
- Non-competetive PVP during pretty much all hours of the day.

It's not that there is a lack of PVP, it's that it's non-competetive. Take a resource midday? Good luck dealing with 10+ resource patrollers who will ulti-dump you. The only competetive PVP is often between the two losing faction, who then proceed to lose everything as their map control (or lack thereof) starts to spread them apart. These people don't go to a new campaign like a more seasoned PVPer might do - they go back to doing whatever they were doing in PVE land.

Solo players can't play effectively there because there is no available faction to contest the faction stack that occurs in trikeeps, therefore the soloer is on the recieving end of AP hungry bees. Small groups don't typically go threre because you are in an automatically losing proposition in that there is no one to fight but you. Even the self-professed solo/small groupers on the winning faction will resort to the faction stacking because that is literally the only PVP you will find on the map.

The 4 dead PvP campaigns, lack of ZoS updating bugs, lag, mechanics & the grinded Cheese Points campaign being labeled "Standard"for new or competitive minded players doesn't help either.

Crom_CCCXVI

yeah this is sad.
No CP is clearly the superior game, but the MMO crowd always wants to be building a character I understand that.

But 20 min 1 v 1's, players that can tank a zerg, 3 sheild stacking 1 attack spammers, and everyone relying on Ult's because the days of offensive combo's are gone.
CP sucks right now, the population is failing.

I have played this game since day 1, and PvP has never been less fun- evident by the population.
They need to redo the whole thing. This whole "I never run out of resources, I never die, and I only spam 1 attack until I get my destro UIt Meta" is crap. It encourages zerging, it's not fun.

This was a great game for a long time, they need to look back and see where it went wrong.

Crom_CCCXVI

Can you imagine being a new player right now.....?

You jump in a campaign, hit a guy 4 or 5 times, he takes no damage.... then he crystal frags you 12x in a row. Your sitting there staring at all those offensive combo's that should have worked, lol

They thought they made the game more new player friendly by adding massively powerful weapon Ult's, but it went the opposite direction. There is now way a new player can kill a vet player right now. We need to get back to the days of Wrecking Blow and Snipe and things like that, where at least your base attacks could get a kill.----

ZOS blew it by trying to cater to the people whining in the forums, but never thought that most of the people in the forums are already playing the Meta, and are just whining because their Meta isn't Meta enough.

Vilestride

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

ZOS blew it by trying to cater to the people whining in the forums, but never thought that most of the people in the forums are already playing the Meta, and are just whining because their Meta isn't Meta enough.

Said while being on the forums....whining about the meta. I don't even?

Kas

Meanwhile EU sotha hits 3locks in the evening. Tbh I'd prefer CP over no CP (especially because of the efficiency of siege left-clickers), but the (lower, yet not lively) population (at least after-work, I hear it's a lot worse during the day but who cares) makes me a happy citizen of Sotha

Reverb

I actually prefer non-cp, but I had to leave sotha. The map was always so imbalanced, and the community so toxic, that it was the worst PvP experience I've ever had in ESO. I wish it were different, I wish there was more than one competitive campaign, but there aren't enough players who want that.

kynseon

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Reverb

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

NBrookus

There are quite a few low CP/low AR players popping up in Shor. Wonder how many looked at Sotha Sil and noped out of there?

Reverb wrote: »

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

Can we please make an empty vMoL so I can get the achievement I previously assumed was off the table for me?

Rickter

I was actually about to post in the Shor thread but the pop over there has picked up.

I just want to say that for all the months that Sotha AD and EP groaned about CN, seems like when they left, the pvp died with them. I wonder if the angst and rage was a bit misplaced. You spent so much time hating an enemy, that when theyre gone, youre left with nothing to drive that passionate hate. I also feel as if there was no closure. I dont think there was a clear winner in all this. It was war. and now its over. no common tyrant to band together against, no war worth fighting.

this is what happens when there is no mutual respect from the opposing teams. no one to shake hands with after the game is over. no one to say "hey those were some good fights, hope to see you on another server again"

Its really sad. actually.

I would also like to state: EP and AD and even DC migrating off of Sotha Sil - What you experienced there is not indicative, or representative of anything or anyone outside of Sotha. When you come onto other servers, you are not fighting the same enemy. There are campaigns where mutual respect and praise-tells are sent between opponents and where nasty tactics are not employed on a regular basis (occasionally but not regularly, looking at you <Dreadlords> and <We Wipe on Trash>)

Be respectful and give the benefit of the doubt to your fellow eso pvper.

Reverb

NBrookus wrote: »

Can we please make an empty vMoL so I can get the achievement I previously assumed was off the table for me?

Considering that those Vmol achievements are for killing things, no.

And you misunderstand my point (probably intentionally, for the purpose of being combative or snarky).

My point is not that PVE players are entitled to these campaigns. My point is that it is misguided to blame these campaigns for population imbalance on other campaigns, or to think that closing these campaigns would improve things on Sotha, Shor, or anywhere else.

There seems to be the mindset that "if we close Xarxes, all those emp flippers will come to ___ and everything will be better". That's not true, if those campaigns are closed, those players will go back to pve zones and nothing will change for people who want good pvp.

Drakkdjinn

Reverb wrote: »

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

Try again.

NBrookus wrote: »

There are quite a few low CP/low AR players popping up in Shor. Wonder how many looked at Sotha Sil and noped out of there?

Reverb wrote: »

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

Can we please make an empty vMoL so I can get the achievement I previously assumed was off the table for me?

This guy gets it.

Reverb

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

Try again.

NBrookus wrote: »

There are quite a few low CP/low AR players popping up in Shor. Wonder how many looked at Sotha Sil and noped out of there?

Reverb wrote: »

kynseon wrote: »

One possible solution to this is remove the other campaigns opened during the event. People are just EMP flipping and ZOS does not care. They have been told numerous times but they fail to correct this. Its clear that they dont play PVP at all or give two crap about it, when is the last time a real upgrade to the map was done. It is still laggy as hell in vivec at least and load screens are a on going issue every single patch.

Those other campaigns don't make a difference. People who use that argument haven't taken the time to assess or talk to the players on those campaigns. Some are PvP'ers who are taking a break from vivec to emp farm, but the majority are pve players and guilds, who are really enjoying these cyrodiil playgrounds, and a chance to get an achievement they previously assumed was off the table for them. Closing these campaigns won't effect the population of the other campaigns.

Can we please make an empty vMoL so I can get the achievement I previously assumed was off the table for me?

This guy gets it.

It's like you're deliberately being obtuse. Please clearly explain how closing those "extra" campaigns would have improved things in Sotha.

kynseon

If PVERS are in a empty campaign just emp flipping and getting their achievements or whatnot and that campaign is closed, they either go to PVE land or forced into one of the campaigns, therefore populating the other campaigns. Either way right now they are not helping us populate Sotha or Shor. Harshly put, Join or leave.

I am not saying is the main problem and the only cause but it is a cause nevertheless.

Drakkdjinn

kynseon wrote: »

If PVERS are in a empty campaign just emp flipping and getting their achievements or whatnot and that campaign is closed, they either go to PVE land or forced into one of the campaigns, therefore populating the other campaigns. Either way right now they are not helping us populate Sotha or Shor. Harshly put, Join or leave.

I am not saying is the main problem and the only cause but it is a cause nevertheless.

Thank you for the reply -- am tired of typing the obvious. Obtuse mode re-engaged.

pzschrek

Sotha is dead from an EP perspective I think because everyone was so happy that the guilds and factions that were ruining it were driven out after months and months of hard work....only for the banana zerg to take their place within a few days and make it totally unplayable.

I know for me there is a big sense of "I'm not dealing with this again."

I do prefer no-CP, but they're all dead and all we have left is Vivec. And the EP queue for that just gets longer and longer the deader sotha gets. If everyone in queue went to Sotha we'd have a good group.

I think past events have farmed out the pugs. When I first started in Azuras back in Spring, it felt almost like vivec does now, and there'd be not one but several large pug wrangler raids on EP and on all sides. Every once in awhile you'd see a new progression guild go up in there, then peace out after a few days of getting wiped by zergs repeatedly.

But based on what happened after Morrowind dropped, they all got farmed out. I know if I hadn't have found some guilds to run with I would have left and never come back.

Shor isn't bad either, been in there a few times, but my impression is that perhaps too many EP ended up there.

gabriebe

I played a bit in Xarxes, it actually has more competent solo players looking for nano fights than emp flippers. I think the original emp flippers accomplished what they had to accomplish weeks ago and rarely come back.

They were fun to destroy solo on a bomb blade though

Dutchessx

Imo first it was the DC (generalized - not specific to avoid n&s rules) and now the large AD groups (that I don't recognized the names of any of them) that push EP back to it's gates multiple times a day. As I stated earlier this past spring/summer, we need to stay off the tri-keeps unless there are scrolls because people log in & then log out or find something else to do because they don't want to deal with it since it is a game & suppose to be fun..... And that my friends is what killed pvp on Sotha.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

The last time I really played on Sotha collecting skyshards mainly, I was having to beg the rest of my own faction to please not take everything on the map and let the EP and AD have at least their tri keeps. I was ignored as I watched those two factions pushed to the gates and then heard my faction complain about boredom. It amazed me that they couldn't see that they were killing the PVP. I returned to Vivec. I absolutely hate the performance issues and the lag of Vivec but at least there is PVP. To me, the best map is the one with numerous crossed swords, tri colored, and no emp.

Adenoma

To be honest, I couldn't fathom a better situation to make AP than against the AD groups running in Sotha now. I love no-CP and intend to stay there with only AD, but hose groups have really put a damper on the fighting I have enjoyed.

Those zergs aren't unbearable - people just get frustrated after a couple wipes and leave. Come on in and farm them. Bring your friends and get your farm on.

Drakkdjinn

Adenoma wrote: »

To be honest, I couldn't fathom a better situation to make AP than against the AD groups running in Sotha now. I love no-CP and intend to stay there with only AD, but hose groups have really put a damper on the fighting I have enjoyed.

Those zergs aren't unbearable - people just get frustrated after a couple wipes and leave. Come on in and farm them. Bring your friends and get your farm on.

^