starkerealm wrote: »
Go back, and look at the original comment: "I doubt any game developer has ever included animation canceling as an intended "feature" of a game."
While you and I both agree that this statement is false, because some games do include animation canceling as intended functionality. Particularly in the character action genre (so, games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, or Dark Souls), and in the fighting game genre (so, games like the Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter series.) In both cases it has become a persistent element in the genres, though not universal. As I recall, one of the recent Street Fighter releases actually included tutorials on animation canceling. Off hand, I can't tell you which games in those genres do include the mechanic, but it's out there.
However, Mass Effect 3 is not a good example, because even though the developers ended up embracing it, it initially began as a bug in ME2. The thing is, ME3 was running a modified version of Unreal, off the exact same fork as ME2. So, when development started on ME3, the bug came over along with the rest of their previous code base. While they ended up saying, "yeah, I meant to do that," it did, in fact, begin as unintended behavior in ME3, prior to release. In general, animation canceling is not a normal component of shooters. Actually I should probably clarify that. Reload cancels are almost ubiquitous in shooters, however, it's not consistent whether a game will reload the weapon when you start the animation, or when you finish. If it is on starting the reload, weapon switching will usually allow you to skip the full animation. (Most Unreal engine games, for example.)
Unless you worked for Bioware at the time, or have deep dived in the code of both games that’s not something you can say with the certainty you project.
Further it’s not Unreal that ultimately allows for animation canceling. It is middleware physics engines, such as Havok, which do.
Basically it’s how the physical restraints designed for the game’s world interpret player inputs.
It’s easier to fix than most believe.
The reason ZOS hasn’t for ESO is because combat would need to be rebuilt.
What many seem to overlook is it’s not animation canceling that was wholly unexpected.
Rather just the extent players could use it that was. ZOS always meant for ESO to function with reactive combat.
Also, animation canceling is a big part of shooters too. It’s what allows players to do things like go from shooting to meleeing seamlessly.
Problem is that they could not remove it as using any skill would left you locked down during the cast time, they could added cast time like snipe, you could still block or dodge but then the skill would not fire, still you can cancel the tail of heavy attacks and still get resources back.kaorunandrak wrote: »And this whole thread would not be needed if the devs would animation canceling to the damn tutorial. Or removed it like they should have in the first place.
(And yes I know that would have required them to rework combat and normalize skill animations and would be a ton of work, but 1 thats their job and 2 the game as a whole would benefit from a normalized combat system that had faster animations and balanced gameplay.)
Chronicburn wrote: »What order would you do these in for max effect?
Instant ability
Normal ability (1 sec cast)
Light attack
Heavy attack
Dodge/block/slam
Weapon swap
Problem is that they could not remove it as using any skill would left you locked down during the cast time, they could added cast time like snipe, you could still block or dodge but then the skill would not fire, still you can cancel the tail of heavy attacks and still get resources back.
exeeter702 wrote: »So far, this thread is filled with half truths and complete misconceptions....
Popular misconceptions which are entirely untrue
-light and heavy attacks have their own GCD
I don't think what I said was wrong.
They do, at least LA. They have a cooldown of their own (shorter than the 1.1 seconds of skills). Try it by spamming LA. They go off roughly every 0.75 seconds. Not 0.5 seconds, not 1.1 seconds, but roughly 0.75. So they MUST have a cooldown of their own.
Also, you can do an LA about 0.75 seconds after you do a skill, hence LAs are not subject to the 1.1 seconds skill GCD.
Acutally, yea, you stated it better. And although I do wish I could do it deliberately in a timed rotation, I have enough success without it to not be bothered with not being able to do it.
I think what you mean to say is "it makes playing harder, but soloing group content more possible."
Animation cancelling is in no way easier than just pressing skills. That just sounds like you are mad that you are unable to do it well enough.
the_broo11 wrote: »
Not sure if you're asking about this for pve or pvp, so I'll start with pve. Note that I've been out of the pve environment for a while now, so I can only speak to the basics:
Your rotation won't use all of those types of abilities. As a DD during boss fights, you'll only be using dodge/block when needed for survival/mechanics. Since you mentioned you're on XB1, I'd advise to avoid block cancelling during raids. XB1 tends to have subpar performance during raids, and lag can cause a block to be held longer than the GCD. Also note that there are some boss fights (particularly "burn phases" where there's high incoming damage) where you can benefit from block casting. This is done by holding block and repeatedly casting an instant cast ability. Only use this method if you foresee incoming damage being greater than your raid teams heals.
Your bar setup will be specific to your class/build. The typical setup includes a spammable, an execute, and as many dots as you can fit on your bars. Youll mostly likely want inner light (as you noted), and probably harness depending on the situation.
Like the bar setup, the rotation varies by build. All rotations have the basic objectives though:
- 100% uptime on each dot
- light or heavy attack between each ability use (i.e. weaving), including buffs
- spammable when all dots are active
- ultimate's on CD unless instructed otherwise by the raid
PvP is a bit different. Burst combos are favored over a rotation since players can heal and purge negative effects (dots). A combo typically consists of 2/3 skills/ultimate executed in rapid succession. Combos are often initiated by a heavy attack followed by the skills. There's too many combos out there, so I can't generalize like the pve setup. I'd suggest posting your setup if you want more info, and I'm sure someone can help you out.
Its a bug that ESO couldn't fix without a whole lot of problems and so they pretended it was a feature. I still have not been able to deliberately do it, but I am pretty sure I end up doing it without meaning to half to time.
I have seen people do it, and if you can get the timing right, it makes playing way easier. Like soloing group content easier. lol
Hey, @starkerealm , if you click on your profile, go to the gear at the top, there is a My Drafts option. Find the one in question, and click the 'X' at the far right, and you can send the unwanted draft back to Oblivion.starkerealm wrote: »EDIT: Accidentally included a post I ultimately decided not to publish, but thanks to the draft system, it lives forever.
Its a bug that ESO couldn't fix without a whole lot of problems and so they pretended it was a feature. I still have not been able to deliberately do it, but I am pretty sure I end up doing it without meaning to half to time.
I have seen people do it, and if you can get the timing right, it makes playing way easier. Like soloing group content easier. lol
Chronicburn wrote: »Thanks for all the info so far, you guys have been very helpful!
My follow up question (keep in mind I play on Xbox) ...
What order would you do these in for max effect?
Instant ability
Normal ability (1 sec cast)
Light attack
Heavy attack
Dodge/block/slam
Weapon swap
Thanks again, this will help me practice a good rotation.
Also, with the limited amount of slots available (assuming magelight morph on both bars) how many would you dedicate for dots as opposed to DD and other abilities?
Actually, there's three ways. In addition to your two, LA/HA cancels skill animations, and skills cancel LA/HA animations.
Says the 3 star noob who spends more time on the forums than in the game yet claims for it to be "boring" What a pro.
I thought skills cancelled LA/HA animation, block/weapon swap/roll cancelled skill animation. Do the sequence is LA-skill-block?
Chronicburn wrote: »Title says it all. I hear it discussed all the time but don't know anything about it. Please elaborate :0)
Chronicburn wrote: »Title says it all. I hear it discussed all the time but don't know anything about it. Please elaborate :0)
Its not a bug whatsoever. Its called mechanics. Either you learn to do it or you cry about it and be a noob.
Skills cancel LA/HA, correct. Block (and probably weapon swap, haven't fully tested that) cancels everything. LA/HA also cancel skills.
I don't think what I said was wrong.
They do, at least LA. They have a cooldown of their own (shorter than the 1.1 seconds of skills). Try it by spamming LA. They go off roughly every 0.75 seconds. Not 0.5 seconds, not 1.1 seconds, but roughly 0.75. So they MUST have a cooldown of their own.
Also, you can do an LA about 0.75 seconds after you do a skill, hence LAs are not subject to the 1.1 seconds skill GCD.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Hey, @starkerealm , if you click on your profile, go to the gear at the top, there is a My Drafts option. Find the one in question, and click the 'X' at the far right, and you can send the unwanted draft back to Oblivion.
Chronicburn wrote: »
This is very helpful stuff. I don't have a real rotation yet, which is why I'm asking all these questions.
My next major problem is the weapon swap. It always feels clunky to me, maybe I just need more practice. Do you generally have a few dots you apply on first bar and then swap weapons? Or when in the rotation is the best time to do swap?
exeeter702 wrote: »
Sorry but this is wrong. Basic attacks will go off no sooner than the gcd after an ability is used.. if you activate a light attack at .5 seconds in, it will fire at the 1 second mark. This isnt an opinion. There are plenty of tools at your disposal to extrapolate this information on pc.
Basic attacks, right down to the code, do not have their own GCD. Light attacks themselves cam not be rapid fired obviously. Under expected combat flow, will ability use in between, they function exactly as i have explained.