"Automaton Gem" item part of the incorrect set! - please fix

Vaoh · September 2017

Hello. There is an item called "Automaton Gem", which is a ring that drops from Darkshade Caverns II. Blue-quality on Normal difficulty, and Purple-quality on Veteran difficulty.

It is meant to be a part of the Automaton set but is currently being used as a Netch's Touch set piece.

Currently there are three named, unique rings which drop form Darkshade Caverns I and II:
- Kwama Shepherd's Charm (Armor of Truth set)
- Lost Imperial Band (Netch's Touch set)
- Automaton Gem (Netch's Touch set)

Please fix this! I am farming Automaton right now..... need purple rings but have gotten zero after at least 15 runs. Getting annoyed now that I have looted 4 Automaton Gems myself from Vet Darkshade Caverns II.

Vaoh · September 2017

I apologize to those of you who use an Automaton Gem on your Magicka Sorc.... you'll have to farm out the real ring or a Lost Imperial Band (The Cutting Sphere) if ZOS ever fixes this.

The only build that really make use of Netch's Touch is a non-pet Mag Sorc though so shouldn't be too much of an issue

Also Automaton is a fantastic Stam Sorc/Stamplar set and is pretty great on other Stamina setups as well, so if you have one of those your farming wasn't a waste of time.

ZOS_GinaBruno · October 2017

Thanks for the report, @Vaoh. We're looking into this.

code65536 · October 2017

Huh?! No, this isn't a bug!

The Automaton Gem is a named boss item from the construct army in DS2. It was named "Automaton Gem" long before the Automaton set existed. And it's Arcane.

When One Tamriel launched, existing named boss items were converted to set items. This ring was converted to Netch's Touch because it's Arcane and has always been Arcane. That it happened to share the same name as the new Automaton set is just an unfortunate coincidence. It was never "meant" to be a part of the Automaton set.

The generic non-named ring in the Automaton set, which drops from the final bosses of DS1 and DS2, is called "Automaton's Ring" and that is what you're looking for (and I've gotten a number of them).

So, no, this is working as intended and not a bug. The ring is and has always been Arcane. The ring should belong to the Netch's Touch set. And changing any of that retroactively would affect every existing copy of this item and would be a horrible idea.

What could (and probably should) be changed is the name of the item, so that it no longer confusingly shares a name with the Automaton set. Maybe "Construct's Spark" (or "Automaton's Touch"

)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

newtinmpls · October 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Huh?! No, this isn't a bug!

Wow, nice catch!

Vaoh · October 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Huh?! No, this isn't a bug!

The Automaton Gem is a named boss item from the construct army in DS2. It was named "Automaton Gem" long before the Automaton set existed. And it's Arcane.

When One Tamriel launched, existing named boss items were converted to set items. This ring was converted to Netch's Touch because it's Arcane and has always been Arcane. That it happened to share the same name as the new Automaton set is just an unfortunate coincidence. It was never "meant" to be a part of the Automaton set.

The generic non-named ring in the Automaton set, which drops from the final bosses of DS1 and DS2, is called "Automaton's Ring" and that is what you're looking for (and I've gotten a number of them).

So, no, this is working as intended and not a bug. The ring is and has always been Arcane. The ring should belong to the Netch's Touch set. And changing any of that retroactively would affect every existing copy of this item and would be a horrible idea.

What could (and probably should) be changed is the name of the item, so that it no longer confusingly shares a name with the Automaton set. Maybe "Construct's Spark" (or "Automaton's Touch" )

ZOS_GinaBruno

Well one of the two Netch rings needs to become an Automaton set piece. Automaton Gem seems like the more logical choice though considering it's in the name lol. I can tell you use Automaton Gem as a Netch set piece but this bug needs to be fixed if it truly is a bug. sorry

However @code65536 you bring up a very important point.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Thank you for looking into this! If a ring is changed to the Automatom set make sure to also change its trait to Robust (Max Stamina+)! Otherwise ppl wont be happy about this at all.

code65536 · October 2017

Why does it need to be changed to the Automaton set?

Changing will change every existing copy of the item. So "f*** you" to anyone who is already using the item for their Netch build? Yea, that's a brilliant idea! Imagine someone waking up one day after a patch, going into a dungeon and wondering why their DPS is lower, their magicka is lower, and they suddenly have a bunch of extra stam. "Why did you alter my gear, ZOS?" This is probably also why instead of converting the ring to Robust and assigning it the Automaton set when OT came out, ZOS elected to instead maintain the current trait of Arcane and assign it the Netch set, because it would be a rude surprise if anyone who happened to use it as an Arcane ring woke up after One Tamriel to find it Robust.

Changing this item to the Automaton set is a horrible idea with absolutely zero merit, and I highly doubt that ZOS will do it precisely because of scenarios like what's described above.

Seriously, I don't get it--why are you so dead set on converting this named item to a different trait and set, with absolutely zero regard to what implications it'll have to everyone else? There are no named Automaton rings. So what? There are lots of sets that don't have any named jewelry. Standard unnamed Automaton jewelry drop from the final bosses of DS1 and DS2. Get it from there like everyone else.

(But I do think it's a good idea to rename it to something less confusing, like "Construct's Spark" or "Construct's Gem".)

casparian · October 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Why does it need to be changed to the Automaton set?

Changing will change every existing copy of the item. So "f*** you" to anyone who is already using the item for their Netch build? Yea, that's a brilliant idea! Imagine someone waking up one day after a patch, going into a dungeon and wondering why their DPS is lower, their magicka is lower, and they suddenly have a bunch of extra stam. "Why did you alter my gear, ZOS?" This is probably also why instead of converting the ring to Robust and assigning it the Automaton set when OT came out, ZOS elected to instead maintain the current trait of Arcane and assign it the Netch set, because it would be a rude surprise if anyone who happened to use it as an Arcane ring woke up after One Tamriel to find it Robust.

Changing this item to the Automaton set is a horrible idea with absolutely zero merit, and I highly doubt that ZOS will do it precisely because of scenarios like what's described above.

Seriously, I don't get it--why are you so dead set on converting this named item to a different trait and set, with absolutely zero regard to what implications it'll have to everyone else? There are no named Automaton rings. So what? There are lots of sets that don't have any named jewelry. Standard unnamed Automaton jewelry drop from the final bosses of DS1 and DS2. Get it from there like everyone else.

(But I do think it's a good idea to rename it to something less confusing, like "Construct's Spark" or "Construct's Gem".)

I completely sympathize with the reluctance to have people's gear changed out from under them. I agree that that would be a bad idea. But @Vaoh has a point: there's a weird gear disparity in Darkshade Caverns. Here are the unique jewelry items that drop in that dungeon:

- Lost Imperial Band (Netch's Touch ring)
- Automaton Gem (Netch's Touch ring)
- Alit Tongue Charm (Netch's Touch neck)
- Foreman's Ring (Armor of Truth ring, Robust)
- Kwama Shepherd's Charm (Armor of Truth ring, Healthy)
- Lambent Netch Tentacles (Strength of the Automaton neck)

Now I always thought it was somewhat charming that the Netch Tentacles are part of the Automaton set and the Automaton Gem is part of the Netch set. But what Vaoh is pointing out is that in this dungeon, one set has three unique pieces, another set has two, and the last set has only one. Regardless of the history of those items before they were integrated into the current sets, I don't think there's any good reason that this disparity should continue to exist.

@code65536 @ZOS_GinaBruno how about this solution? Discontinue the Automaton Gem. Everyone who already has it can still equip it and it still is part of the Netch's Touch set, but the item no longer drops. Then, introduce a new item, a unique Strength of the Automaton ring (call it Centurion Dynamo Mechanism for fun lore flavor). This way, each set has two unique jewelry items, instead of the current imbalance. Netch and Auto would both have a unique ring and necklace, and Truth would only have unique rings, which is fair since Truth is one of the few heavy sets that has both a Healthy and Robust drop.

code65536 · October 2017

Most dungeons have an uneven distribution of named pieces. (I know, because I compiled the list.) Named pieces exist mostly for flavor in the loot table. It makes some slots slightly easier or harder to get, but that's not their raison d'être. Newer dungeons completely do away with named flavor pieces. They're a fun little legacy of the pre-OT loot system, not something to be overscrutinized in this manner.

Tyrion87 · October 2017

Ekhm... This issue is here from the very beginning... i.e. since One Tamriel !!

It was brought to our attention long time ago: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305797/is-this-a-bug-automaton-gem

And on all websites Automaton Gem is a part of the Netch's Touch set, e.g.: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Netch's+Touch+Set

So, if it is truly a bug, it has been here since the introduction of the Netch's Touch set. That said, it should remain like this and if there is a need to have a unique ring for Automaton set, a new unique one should be introduced.

MissBizz · October 2017

This did confuse me a bit, but it's true that was the name long before the set existed.

As a netch wielding sorc though... I use the other named one. It would make sense to change it over... but you wouldn't want to do so without supplying folks with a replacement netch ring.

ZOS_GinaBruno · October 2017

Thanks for the additional feedback, all. Our current plan is to make a new item which will be the Automaton-set Automaton's Gem, and the old item will still be Netch's Touch. When you run through this dungeon, you'll now have a chance at obtaining the new item. Any Automaton's Gem that you may already have will remain in the Netch's Touch item set.

code65536 · October 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the additional feedback, all. Our current plan is to make a new item which will be the Automaton-set Automaton's Gem, and the old item will still be Netch's Touch. When you run through this dungeon, you'll now have a chance at obtaining the new item. Any Automaton's Gem that you may already have will remain in the Netch's Touch item set.

In that case, you should rename "Automaton's Gem" to something less confusing, in addition to this planned change.

Twilix01 · October 2017

While we're mentioning things, the Lambent N

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the additional feedback, all. Our current plan is to make a new item which will be the Automaton-set Automaton's Gem, and the old item will still be Netch's Touch. When you run through this dungeon, you'll now have a chance at obtaining the new item. Any Automaton's Gem that you may already have will remain in the Netch's Touch item set.

While you're at it, might want to change the Lambent Netch Tentacles necklace to Netch's Touch, as it's currently part of the Automaton set.

Vaoh · October 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the additional feedback, all. Our current plan is to make a new item which will be the Automaton-set Automaton's Gem, and the old item will still be Netch's Touch. When you run through this dungeon, you'll now have a chance at obtaining the new item. Any Automaton's Gem that you may already have will remain in the Netch's Touch item set.

TY! Perfect solution imo,

Twilix01 wrote: »

While we're mentioning things, the Lambent N

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the additional feedback, all. Our current plan is to make a new item which will be the Automaton-set Automaton's Gem, and the old item will still be Netch's Touch. When you run through this dungeon, you'll now have a chance at obtaining the new item. Any Automaton's Gem that you may already have will remain in the Netch's Touch item set.

While you're at it, might want to change the Lambent Netch Tentacles necklace to Netch's Touch, as it's currently part of the Automaton set.

I agree with you here. I had forgotten about that neckpiece. In general a few of these unique drops would best be changed around, but at this point in time it would only cause confusion. Since there are 3 necklaces and 3 rings it would make sense for each set to get their own pieces which is why I'd like Automaton (a great set with only 1 unique neck) to take a unique ring from the Netch set (a good set with 1 unique neck and 2 unique rings).

code65536 · October 2017

I still don't understand why people are so interested in these named jewelry pieces. I suspect that if their names were more appropriate, people wouldn't even notice.

The fact remains that named items are flavor drops that made sense in the era before One Tamriel. Your primary source of Automaton and Netch's Touch jewelry ought to be the same as your primary source of every other dungeon set: from the final boss of the dungeon or from chests. These named items are just little extras in the loot table.

And most importantly, if having two named Netch rings and no named Automaton rings in the DS1/2 loot tables is a problem, then, LOL, virtually every dungeon in the game has this "problem". Even distribution of named items is the exception, not the rule. CoH1/2, for example, has no named necklaces of 2 of its 3 sets (Lich has a quest reward neck, but it's always blue and a one-time reward.) CoA1/2 has a set that has a named neck and a named ornate ring, and two sets that have a named ring but no neck. Selene's has a set with a named neck (no ring), a set with a named ring whose resource does not match the set's armor weight (also, no named neck), and another set with a named ring and no neck. The list goes on and on. Pick any dungeon, and I'll point out how its share of named items isn't some perfect ideal.

@ZOS_GinaBruno If it is truly your intent to have the named flavor items follow some sort of even distribution, then why stop with Darkshade? Why not open up Pandora's Box and look at the entire system of named flavor items?

Rename Automaton Gem to something less confusing. Done. Named items are just bits of flavored sprinkles in the loot table. The base loot table is already evenly distributed. If even distribution is what you want, then just eliminate the named items and let the base loot table do its work. But that's kinda dry and dull. So just leave it be. Why the fixation on this one set in this one dungeon when this is the norm virtually everywhere?