Removal of WP/SP Damage from Maelstrom Weapons - Please Reconsider

JohnStorm

Instead of asking for ZOS to revert the change, why not ask for a buff to the set bonuses? Maelstrom 2hander for example clearly buffs a skill that's only used in pvp.

However, it makes 0 sense to me that someone would grind a maelstrom destro staff for example, only to get what extra 60 spell damage and no benefit to any skill they use? I know you get to keep the spell/weapon damage with poisons slotted but why go through all of the trouble to get the right weapon with the right trait just for that.

Maulkin

JohnStorm wrote: »

Instead of asking for ZOS to revert the change, why not ask for a buff to the set bonuses? Maelstrom 2hander for example clearly buffs a skill that's only used in pvp.

However, it makes 0 sense to me that someone would grind a maelstrom destro staff for example, only to get what extra 60 spell damage and no benefit to any skill they use? I know you get to keep the spell/weapon damage with poisons slotted but why go through all of the trouble to get the right weapon with the right trait just for that.

189 Spell Damage you mean

idk

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

I understand that aspect...everyone does..they took away the stock weapon damage enchant..yes that sucks..we can just put it back in like any other weapon. If they wanted flat stat bonus they shouldve just crafted an infused dagger with a weapon damage enchant..The point a maelstrom weapon is to boost your class spammable skill damage not weapon damage..that was just a perk. Either way your not losing anything.

yeah you are. you're losing Maelstrom weapons as an actual viable choice for any form of competitive play, be it PvE or PvP. the change may seem small but it puts these weapons at the bottom of the barrel.

What are you talking about? Did you not read anything i just posted? Or the patch notes? You lose 180 something spell damage...PUT A WEAPON DAMAGE ENCHANT BACK ON IT!!!!!! You arent losing anything!!! You actually gain..if all you wanted was weapon damage why would you waste your time farming maelstrom? Maelstrom weapons are special because they boost SKILL damage. Besides like I said 3 times before you can enchant the weapon with a WEAPON DAMAGE GLYPH to retain the stats your looking for as well as keeping the original special enchant. All they did was give more variety as far as enchant customization.

I don't think you're understanding what you're saying so I'm going to lay it out like this:

BEFORE: The way Maelstrom weapons work now you get BOTH the wp/sp damage + the skill enchant.

AFTER: Removing the wp/sp damage and forcing the user to use a wp damage glyph lowers total damage because getting the damage requires procs (aka not 100% uptime).

Have you actually played around testing any of this? Also, hardly requires 100% uptime of the berserker enchant. 1/2 uptime proves almost as much WD/SD as the vMA weapons do ok lineage.

FriedEggSandwich

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Guys the special enchant remains.....the only thing you need to do is enchant your malstrom weapons with a weapon damage glyph...boom you get your damage back. Before you could not enchant the maelstrom or master weapons with out losing the special enchant. Now we get to keep the special enchant and then add another that we choose on top of it. Such as poison, weapon damage, yadda yadda. In the case of the maelstrom sword..it will retain its crit rush buff, the you can use an enchant of your choosing..this is actually a buff to the weapons.

But I use the vma staff in pvp where I don't use wall of elements. I use it for the spell damage buff because it is more than 1 piece kena and I can also slot vulnerability poisons on it too without losing the spell damage buff. This will no longer be possible which makes me sad because I spent many hours of my life farming for it for that very application.

FriedEggSandwich

JohnStorm wrote: »

Instead of asking for ZOS to revert the change, why not ask for a buff to the set bonuses? Maelstrom 2hander for example clearly buffs a skill that's only used in pvp.

However, it makes 0 sense to me that someone would grind a maelstrom destro staff for example, only to get what extra 60 spell damage and no benefit to any skill they use? I know you get to keep the spell/weapon damage with poisons slotted but why go through all of the trouble to get the right weapon with the right trait just for that.

Because vulnerability poisons give a really nice boost to burst damage, and my pvp build was all about burst damage. I'll find something else I'm sure, but am I not entitled to voice my reasons for not liking this change?

IAVITNI

DeHei wrote: »

Then you should change something... This is a useful change!
Btw. nobody need poisons... there are just really fast or near endless fights, poisons dont make a difference!
Only for a zerging mentality like Xvs1 to bring down really strong opponents, this could be a nerf. But who cares about zerging people?

I never said it wasn't a useful change or that I wasn't going to change anything. Did you read my post? Because your comment doesn't even address the point of the post which was that it diminshes versatility in terms of PvP builds. Say I want to run a 5 pc, a monster set and jewlery set. Not every build uses skills modified by vma,master, asylum. I am now short a stat boost/skill modifier. I am literally gimped for running my setup.

Consider that someone running the above setup could run a gold rubedite 2h for example and lose nothing compared to a vma 2h. Now compare that to someone running two 5 pcs and 1 monster set. They have access to an additional stat boost.
It limits build diversity. Not by much but the limitation is still there.

I still think the best option is to have the stat boost as the base enchant. That way the old vma builds still work and the new ones will be available as well. Based on the forums, I'm "gimping" myself by not slotting berserker anyways so I don't see how anyone could argue against this. let me play my way and you play yours.

JohnStorm

Maulkin wrote: »

189 Spell Damage you mean

If you run two 5-pieces and 1 piece monster set for the damage you only lose 60 spell damage... Or heck, a 5 piece, 4 piece and a full monster set you still can make it so you lose very little.

Emma_Overload

JohnStorm wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

189 Spell Damage you mean

If you run two 5-pieces and 1 piece monster set for the damage you only lose 60 spell damage... Or heck, a 5 piece, 4 piece and a full monster set you still can make it so you lose very little.

Some people want to be able to run 5 piece set + 2 pc monster set + 3 pc set (like Willpower/Agility) AND fill that last slot with a 1 pc weapon set like Maelstrom or Master's staff. That kind of build is BUSTED now.

Maulkin

JohnStorm wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

189 Spell Damage you mean

If you run two 5-pieces and 1 piece monster set for the damage you only lose 60 spell damage... Or heck, a 5 piece, 4 piece and a full monster set you still can make it so you lose very little.

That's not how it works.

The current change will make you lose 189 base spell power with the exact same equipment. That's what happens when you log in the day after the DLC drops. What you are talking about is changing your entire build to a 5-5-1 with a monster piece. Which is why people are saying "it's killing the build".

And if I change my current build to a 5-5-1 , I'm actually losing even more than 189 spell power. Other than my 5-piece set (which stays the same), I was running 3xWillpower, 1xMA staff, 1xDomihaus, 1xShadowrend. Assume you keep the Domihaus and switch the rest to a 5-piece set, then the next best available sets are either Wizard's Riposte or Lich.

For example, swapping the current set up (3xWillpower, 1xShadowrend, 1xMA staff) for Wizard's Riposte I trade 249 base Spell Damage and 1450 base Max Magicka for 1206 HP and an occasional Minor Maim. So go on, tell me how much damage I've lost?

xiZeroPointix

Aylum, maelstrom, master all do the same thing. They boost a particular skill. All of these weapons are niche weapons. Each one with a specific trait to accent your builds strong suits (netches touch infused shock encant with llambris on a magsorc..niche build combined with a wall of elements boost from maelstrom..and now we can re trait with nirn and add a spell damage enchant..op as f***) Yes there is a flat stat enhancement and a small one at that. Aysylum you have force pulse, maelstrom wall of elements-arrow barrage, master destructive reach. The whole point of the changes every patch is to promote niche builds and not using "youtube" builds. Yes the extra tid bit of flat damage boost helped very minutely. Nirn does exist on vma weapons, but extremely rare. I farmed maelstrom specifically for the wall of elements perk this boosted pve dps quite abit also biisting concussion and off balance procing the exploiter perk.

xiZeroPointix

The fact is that these weapons are niche weapons and that the purpose of any good build is SYNERGY. Its looking at your dps parse and determining the skills you use the most and building around that tool kit. These weapons are made to do just that..provide synergy to the skills you use along with specific armor sets. These changes allow maelstrom master and asylum weapons to better fit into a specific build plan.

HungryMonkey007

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

xiZeroPointix

Yes everyone is complaining about 180 damage loss, yes it is clearly indicated in an obvious manner..so no it was not missed...All i am saying is the worry over a stat number is overshadowing the true purpose of the weapons and there new found potential. The flat damage was nerfed due to the fact that we can take a charged staff and make it nirnhoned or whatever we want adding a flat damage increase and then enchant the staff once more with whatever we choose change and other changes that were made further adding to the effectivenes. With the new changes this staff would be overperforming by a large margin and be nerfed either way. I get that these wepaons were farmed for one reason and that is a small increase to our stats. If these weapons were utilized as intended then the dps from these weapons without the small stat buff would be minute. Niche builds are becoming more viable and less dependant on min max and whatever alcast runs for the week. We are trading a flat stat increase for more versatility and potentially a staff with a much higher spell/ weapon damage tool tip. Zos made the change its not getting changed back..All I want is for people to look beyond just damage stats and look at a much bigger picture. Then realize that if you have to have a staff just for the flat damage increase and its going to break the bank and ruin your build it should not have been centered around a staff. It should have been centered around your tool kit and armor choices

xiZeroPointix

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Simply take your weapon and change the trait to infused and then enchant with a befoul. There are maelstrom and master weapons that boost pvp skills as well such as destructive reach and now force pulse. Instead of covering up the enchant now we can have an additive effect which will increase your overall tooltip damage..lending more damage potential than a flat stat increase. You wont see them on your character stat page but will enhance your dps potential overall. Zos is give and take they took stat bonus away to in the end give use more tooltip and stat damage than before. People will see that its actually going to give more stats if you knowbhow to build for it. I am guilty as well for wanting the stat increase, but saw the light in terms if having more than what these weapons previously offered with the new changes.

Oakmontowls_ESO

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Again, being able to keep the static stat bonus with a poison equipped was obviously a bug. Most likely it was related to being able to enchant over the maelstrom weapon and still keep the stat bonus. And as with all bugs you run the risk of it being patched (like the infallible glitch) or if the devs like the glitch they might make it a feature (like lightning staff heavy attacks or animation canceling). Adapt and over come.

SodanTok

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Again, being able to keep the static stat bonus with a poison equipped was obviously a bug. Most likely it was related to being able to enchant over the maelstrom weapon and still keep the stat bonus. And as with all bugs you run the risk of it being patched (like the infallible glitch) or if the devs like the glitch they might make it a feature (like lightning staff heavy attacks or animation canceling). Adapt and over come.

You cannot enchant over vma weapon and keep the stat bonus And the poison interaction was not patched. So I dont get what are you about here?

This would be totally different discussion if they patched poison interaction.

Lucky28

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Again, being able to keep the static stat bonus with a poison equipped was obviously a bug. Most likely it was related to being able to enchant over the maelstrom weapon and still keep the stat bonus. And as with all bugs you run the risk of it being patched (like the infallible glitch) or if the devs like the glitch they might make it a feature (like lightning staff heavy attacks or animation canceling). Adapt and over come.

that's a baseless claim. maelstrom weapons have always worked like that if it was a bug it would have been patched. and according to the devs that's not even why the change was being considered (hopefully) so no.

GrumpyDuckling

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

The fact is that these weapons are niche weapons and that the purpose of any good build is SYNERGY. Its looking at your dps parse and determining the skills you use the most and building around that tool kit. These weapons are made to do just that..provide synergy to the skills you use along with specific armor sets. These changes allow maelstrom master and asylum weapons to better fit into a specific build plan.

I farmed my original Maelstrom weapons with a specific build plan (a 5-3-1-1-1-1 set up that benefitted from the weapon damage that Maelstrom weapons provided).

Removing the entire purpose I farmed the weapons for is a spit in the face.

GrumpyDuckling

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_RichLambert

Oakmontowls_ESO

SodanTok wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Again, being able to keep the static stat bonus with a poison equipped was obviously a bug. Most likely it was related to being able to enchant over the maelstrom weapon and still keep the stat bonus. And as with all bugs you run the risk of it being patched (like the infallible glitch) or if the devs like the glitch they might make it a feature (like lightning staff heavy attacks or animation canceling). Adapt and over come.

You cannot enchant over vma weapon and keep the stat bonus And the poison interaction was not patched. So I dont get what are you about here?

This would be totally different discussion if they patched poison interaction.

You could enchant over it and keep the stat bonus at one point.

xiZeroPointix

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

The fact is that these weapons are niche weapons and that the purpose of any good build is SYNERGY. Its looking at your dps parse and determining the skills you use the most and building around that tool kit. These weapons are made to do just that..provide synergy to the skills you use along with specific armor sets. These changes allow maelstrom master and asylum weapons to better fit into a specific build plan.

I farmed my original Maelstrom weapons with a specific build plan (a 5-3-1-1-1-1 set up that benefitted from the weapon damage that Maelstrom weapons provided).

Removing the entire purpose I farmed the weapons for is a spit in the face.

You were not utilizing a set bonus..just a complete min max of overall stat increase. I see. I am thinking for pvp... maelstrom sword It gives a a crit rush damage modifier and a 189 flat weapon damage increase. Now the flat damage is gone..so i am going to re trait to nirn that gives me a flat 10% increase in weapon damage. Then enchant the weapon with a crusher enchant for instance that will not only add damage to my crit rush attack but will immediately debuff who i attack. To go further i can re trait to infused which will buff not only my crit rush damage modifier but also boost the de buff applied from the crusher enchant..simultaneously and reduce the resistances of the target instantly and per use of the skill..i am not sure if it stacks with each application..but this effect will in turn beat out a flat increase in damage...further i can put a weapon damage enchant on the infused weapon giving me an almost 100% uptime with 400+ weapon damage, while essentially doubling the damage to crit rush (which is a guaranteed critical damage). This is unheard of damage potential. Having 2 enchants on a weapon in the long run is better than a mediocre flat damage increase....think outside the box...this is going to make maelstrom weapons do nasty damage next patch! Using this along with a double enchant asylum weapon is the boost pvpers have been looking for.

xiZeroPointix

Next patch is going to be about skill synergy..niche builds...dots...and status effects. Sharpened weapons are a thing of the past. Do to the fact that penetration is easily obtained through other means than wasting a weapon trait. Appying debuffs and damage over time effects will be the meta more so than with hotr. With more and more niche weapons that cater to dots and status effects as well as the emphasis on aoe and its counterparts with the new armor and monster sets.

GrumpyDuckling

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

The fact is that these weapons are niche weapons and that the purpose of any good build is SYNERGY. Its looking at your dps parse and determining the skills you use the most and building around that tool kit. These weapons are made to do just that..provide synergy to the skills you use along with specific armor sets. These changes allow maelstrom master and asylum weapons to better fit into a specific build plan.

I farmed my original Maelstrom weapons with a specific build plan (a 5-3-1-1-1-1 set up that benefitted from the weapon damage that Maelstrom weapons provided).

Removing the entire purpose I farmed the weapons for is a spit in the face.

You were not utilizing a set bonus..just a complete min max of overall stat increase. I see. I am thinking for pvp... maelstrom sword It gives a a crit rush damage modifier and a 189 flat weapon damage increase. Now the flat damage is gone..so i am going to re trait to nirn that gives me a flat 10% increase in weapon damage. Then enchant the weapon with a crusher enchant for instance that will not only add damage to my crit rush attack but will immediately debuff who i attack. To go further i can re trait to infused which will buff not only my crit rush damage modifier but also boost the de buff applied from the crusher enchant..simultaneously and reduce the resistances of the target instantly and per use of the skill..i am not sure if it stacks with each application..but this effect will in turn beat out a flat increase in damage...further i can put a weapon damage enchant on the infused weapon giving me an almost 100% uptime with 400+ weapon damage, while essentially doubling the damage to crit rush (which is a guaranteed critical damage). This is unheard of damage potential. Having 2 enchants on a weapon in the long run is better than a mediocre flat damage increase....think outside the box...this is going to make maelstrom weapons do nasty damage next patch! Using this along with a double enchant asylum weapon is the boost pvpers have been looking for.

Great for you - you seem to want the change. I'd prefer to have my initial build that I farmed VMA for. ZOS should at least give us the option to keep our Maelstrom weapons the same.

It's a spit in our face to permanently change Maelstrom weapons considering how much it sucks to farm them. VMA isn't fun, but at least I eventually got rewarded with the specific items that I was seeking for a specific purpose.

SirMewser

Removing the raw stat bonus from Maelstrom and Master weapons has done the following;
-2H users can now benefit from an enchantment.
-The 1st piece of any 2 piece special weapon set is inconsequential.
-2 pieces are required to get any single bonus that could have been a 4th or 5th piece bonus of another set that would have enchantments anyways.
-Those who have already farmed these sets have lost raw stats.

Why not treat special weapons like monster sets, providing a 1 and 2 piece bonus, ensure that drops with a 1H include another or a shield?

Oakmontowls_ESO

SirMewser wrote: »

Removing the raw stat bonus from Maelstrom and Master weapons has done the following;
-2H users can now benefit from an enchantment.
-The 1st piece of any 2 piece special weapon set is inconsequential.
-2 pieces are required to get any single bonus that could have been a 4th or 5th piece bonus of another set that would have enchantments anyways.
-Those who have already farmed these sets have lost raw stats.

Why not treat special weapons like monster sets, providing a 1 and 2 piece bonus, ensure that drops with a 1H include another or a shield?

the second part of your request is already in the game for vMa weapons. Axe and dagger drop in pairs while swords and maces drop with a shield.

bebynnag

Maulkin wrote: »

bebynnag wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

bebynnag wrote: »

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Apologies not necessary

do you get that they are talking about PvP and not PvE?

sharpened is still top dog on account of how many people run around in full heavy armour

do you also get that making a new post for every sentance is bad forum ettiquette?

do you also understand that by failing to understand the very basic issue that is being discussed on this thread you are making your self look more that a little silly?

appology necessary!

Actually based on my testing with two Julianos Lightning Staves, a nirnhorned and a sharpened, against a 5h-2m S&B NB buffed with Major Ward and Major Protection...the nirnhorned staff did marginally more damage on the light attacks.

Anyhow I thought the vMSA dropped nirnhorned weapons these days, does it not?

vMA has always dropped nirn

you tested light attacks against your friend using 5 heavy & 2 medium, and nirn out performend sharpened... ok thnx, good to know.

i was actually trying to explain why the 2 billion posts about the infused trait were irrelevent in this discussion, but sure thnx 4 letting me know that nirn outperforms sharpened on a shield breaker set-up!

vMA did not always drop nirn, you are flat out wrong. When it first came out the best trait was Sharpened and there were many threads on this forum questioning why the vMA is not drop the BiS trait. With counter threads saying that the best trait should be crafted (the only way to get nirnhorned stuff back then)

Secondly....wtf are you talking about? Nirn doing better with light attacks means nirn doing better with every damage skill.. What does shieldbreaker build have to do with anything. Test with Crushing Shock and you get the same exact result.

wtf are you talking about?

nirn was nerfed into the ground when imperial city was released (that was 3 months before maelstrom was introduced btw)

it hasnt been best in slot trait since then - now it is one of multiple traits that is good in certain situations

you are the one going on about light attacks - im sorry when someone starts banging on about light attacks in a PvP context against someone using a shield - i instantlky think shieldbreaker.... but im sure your contralled test against your friend is the definative test on what traits do and dont work in PvP

Feanor

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

I think some of the comments towards synergy and PVE are missing the point of the original commenter. The weapon damage in PVP is important because we use poisons which covers up the enchant. I don't care about the skill buff, I want the damage boost to pair with my poison. It appears that the developers want to swing VMA weapons back to PVE only. Perhaps this is because many PVP players don't want to farm in PVE for gear. It would be nice for the developers to just come out and admit that they want to eliminate the PVP benefit instead of pretending like PVP players should be happy about getting to enchant their weapons. If the ability to enchant is better in PVP than poisons (probably not), they basically killed the poison system so what was the point of even creating it?

Again, being able to keep the static stat bonus with a poison equipped was obviously a bug. Most likely it was related to being able to enchant over the maelstrom weapon and still keep the stat bonus. And as with all bugs you run the risk of it being patched (like the infallible glitch) or if the devs like the glitch they might make it a feature (like lightning staff heavy attacks or animation canceling). Adapt and over come.

You cannot enchant over vma weapon and keep the stat bonus And the poison interaction was not patched. So I dont get what are you about here?

This would be totally different discussion if they patched poison interaction.

You could enchant over it and keep the stat bonus at one point.

This was an UI error. The SD/WD still showed on the character sheet but wasn't actually applied.

IAVITNI

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

Yes everyone is complaining about 180 damage loss, yes it is clearly indicated in an obvious manner..so no it was not missed...All i am saying is the worry over a stat number is overshadowing the true purpose of the weapons and there new found potential. The flat damage was nerfed due to the fact that we can take a charged staff and make it nirnhoned or whatever we want adding a flat damage increase and then enchant the staff once more with whatever we choose change and other changes that were made further adding to the effectivenes. With the new changes this staff would be overperforming by a large margin and be nerfed either way. I get that these wepaons were farmed for one reason and that is a small increase to our stats. If these weapons were utilized as intended then the dps from these weapons without the small stat buff would be minute. Niche builds are becoming more viable and less dependant on min max and whatever alcast runs for the week. We are trading a flat stat increase for more versatility and potentially a staff with a much higher spell/ weapon damage tool tip. Zos made the change its not getting changed back..All I want is for people to look beyond just damage stats and look at a much bigger picture. Then realize that if you have to have a staff just for the flat damage increase and its going to break the bank and ruin your build it should not have been centered around a staff. It should have been centered around your tool kit and armor choices

Where is the logic in this? So you're saying that by using a trait that these weapons already dropped in they will now suddenly become overpowered? It's still a dps loss. Before I could run poisons with a sharp vMA staff->three instances of increased damage. Now its down to 2 (trait + glyph/posion) unless my build happens to use one of the buffed skills. Guess what. Not every buffed skill is going to be used in a build and maybe that skill isn't buffed in the way you want it. PvP wise, the only useful weapons are going to be vma 2h, master bow and asylum 2h, staff and shield. Everything else is pretty lack luster or extremely niche, the next closest contender being master destro. PvE, yes it's a buff. You obviously don't pvp considering your bench mark is a target dummy.

I'm all for PvE getting buffs, I know they get hit a lot due to PvP. But some builds run 5-2-3 with vma/master. Sure 3 skills per weapon line are getting buffed but there are plenty of builds that don't use any of the buffed skills. This change removes build diversity and pigeon holes players to use skills they may not want to. Take a stamblade for example. Many successful 2h stamblades don't run an execute in pvp and most use ambush. So tell me what weapon will they use? the Vma staff that they used to use is now equivalent to a Rubedite great sword. Why don't you run a trial with a Gold generic weapon and tell me it doesn't make you feel cheated. Nobody should feel bad running their build. Not every build needs to be viable, but every piece of gear you equip should feel valuable, not generic.

This thread is focused on the effects of the change on PvP. Your posts don't reflect PvP at all. Just because this change doesn't effect your play style negatively doesn't mean it doesn't have a negative effect for others. PvP=/PvE.

You're not trading a stat boost for versatility in PvP because they are actually taking away versatility with this move. Honestly the best way to do this is to just make the base enchantment be the stat boost (and still work with poisons) and give us the option to change it or not, which would still allow PvE players to place an enchant. If this was really a move to increase diversity, then they would give an alternative option for 5-2-3 setups after they take away vmsa. I'd rather run a Gold Rubedite 2h to chuckle at the irony than look at my 2h vmsa and remember how much time I wasted.

And for reference I have 11 toons, at least one of each class. My stam Sorc is good to go with this change as I like the dot, but my stamblade now HAS to run Asylum 2h otherwise I am gimping myself.

Before you go on posting that people should just adjust there build etc. etc. PvE benefits etc. etc., provide a viable alternative weapon to the following setup on a stamblade that does not run executioner:
2 pc Velidreth
5 pc Hunding
3 pc Agility
1 vmsa 2h

(this is not my build. Generic stamblade setup)

Because I said before, there is no difference between running a Rubedite 2h and a vmsa 2h if the change goes through. THIS IS LITERALLY THE PRIMARY ISSUE OF THIS THREAD.

DRXHarbinger

Brrrofski wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger

I'm not salty. I actually enjoy running vMA. I just think it's a change that shafts PvP for no reason whatsoever. It's just a complete lack of consideration.

Imagine you're a PvE completionist that decided to grind for the Emperor title. After 14 days of no sleep 24/7 Cyrodiil you finally get it. Then ZOS says "hey guys, we just decided to remove the emperor title from the game and replace it with "I've been to Cyrodiil quite often". How would you feel?

It's not a shaft at all, 2 people 1v1ing each other with the same set up...there is no advantage had by either party, you are just marginally...very marginally weaker, few hundred damage off your frags...that's it.

Removing a title and an enchant are 2 different sports altogether, Emp has been around since day 1, this enchant if not with this change at some point down the line would have become obsolete anyway. Remember the Martial Knowledge Meta? The Viper Gank Meta? Proxy / Teather / VD Bomb Meta? Tumorscale / Viper / Blackrose Meta? All of these things are long gone...and As Ian Malcolm once said...Life will find a way.

And it did, the PVP crowd found another (Supposed) Meta with these staves, Life goes on and something else crops up.

these new staves are pretty OP, every staff user is going to run crushing shock, who doesn't want an interrupt that gives a massive damage boost at the same time? Give it 2 weeks from launch and all of this will be long forgotten.

Change is good, keeps things fresh.

Half of PvP using crushing shock will not be good and the opposite of fresh.

Like I said, I don't care about the vma nerf really. Just annoys me that people refuse to aknowledges that is it a nerf in PvP. Either because of their blind hatred of PvP, salt because they couldn't do vma or because they don't know how to squeeze everything out of a build.

It's a minor minor minor nerf.

What I think the majority are struggling to grasp with all the hate on this is.. The following.

Shield Durations.
Proc Crits
Surge heals
Radiant nerf
Cinder storm evasion removal
DK execute (yes they had one)
DK ulti gen back in the day
Stam regen whilst blocking
Blazing shield strength / Trollplar build
Blackrose nerf
Ulti cap reduction killing sorc OL builds (which remarkably was PVP's bread and butter for farming these weapons)
Regen in general as everyone was apparently "unkillable, just permablocking and instahealing"
BOL only working in a forward direction

All of these things we had which were nerfed / removed / replaced because of the PVP crowd crying something / someone was more OP than them (reality being they just got rekd by a better player) And nope not a word in support from anyone saying... "this affects me in PVP too"

Now one thing happens to a PVE weapon that you all supposedly use in PVP and want to cry about it? (not you crying but others are going way OTT about this)

Just some serious double standards going on, PVP players and cry babies destroyed way to much in the greater aspect of the game..quite frankly for the PVE base to care about as minor as this.

This isn't to stoke an argument at all but I feel a lot of people will agree with this, PVP get's no sympathy from the PVE crowd on this one.

My 2 cents anyway.

Yes we can all agree it is a nerf...But given what we have seen since early 2015 when the nerf hammer rained down on us all, this is absolutely minor and not worth worrying about.

Feanor

@DRXHarbinger

I take you're not running a vMA weapon in PvP... I agree on your nerf list. But this nerf is totally unnecessary.