WoW made me appreciate ESO

Aurassarr

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thread is a poopstorm of WOW and ESO fans arguing which is better, can we close it now?

Tera like a mofo ***!!

Im of the very unpopular opinion that both games are fun. Currently sub to and actively play both

srfrogg23

Aurassarr wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thread is a poopstorm of WOW and ESO fans arguing which is better, can we close it now?

Tera like a mofo ***!!

Im of the very unpopular opinion that both games are fun. Currently sub to and actively play both

Why do you think that is an unpopular opinion? A lot of people MMO hop.

Balamoor

WoWs issue has always been if you want to see any of the story you either Raid or watch it on YouTube both propositions suck.

I beta tested WOW and endured it because it was really the only game in town that functioned capably (everything else was a bad clone of a bad model) I canceled wow after I got into the ESO beta and never looked back.

ESO is my main mmo, none of the story is gated, it doesn't have this ridiculous pop culture obsession raiding is a separate entity for minority that likes that sort of thing and it focuses on it's table top roots of D&D, which is what most people were looking for when UO and EQ was first announced.

Wow on the other hand is a hamster wheel of raid rinse repeat and currently Blizzard seems more interested in Esports than their MMo and with their recent boarding of the SJW train the company as a whole is a joke.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Aurassarr wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thread is a poopstorm of WOW and ESO fans arguing which is better, can we close it now?

Tera like a mofo ***!!

Im of the very unpopular opinion that both games are fun. Currently sub to and actively play both

Why do you think that is an unpopular opinion? A lot of people MMO hop.

''Tis true. Really hop around to the different game forums and spend some time. And you will see exactly the same complaint across them all. Lag, balance, lack of content, lack of communication, money grabbing, and so on. In the end It all comes down to personal preference and how engaged you get with the game. Which is why these threads never go anywhere.

srfrogg23

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Aurassarr wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Thread is a poopstorm of WOW and ESO fans arguing which is better, can we close it now?

Tera like a mofo ***!!

Im of the very unpopular opinion that both games are fun. Currently sub to and actively play both

Why do you think that is an unpopular opinion? A lot of people MMO hop.

''Tis true. Really hop around to the different game forums and spend some time. And you will see exactly the same complaint across them all. Lag, balance, lack of content, lack of communication, money grabbing, and so on. In the end It all comes down to personal preference and how engaged you get with the game. Which is why these threads never go anywhere.

It's still fun to talk about. It also serves as feedback.

"That company over there is doing something that I'm not willing to pay for. You should probably avoid doing those things."

Vrienda

The last two WoW expansions have been utter garbage.

Good to see some others have the sense to leave that game for a better one.

Korah_Eaglecry

Linaleah wrote: »

indeed. and if we are going to compare cosmetics. WoW has transmog, ESO does not, however - ESO has in game earned system of dyes. no dyeing at all in WoW. so what is more important for you? you decide. I'd rather have dyes, especially system like in ESO.

and while I actualy love that WoW tokens exist (as a long term WoW player, I had enough gold to pretty much never buy another months of subscription ever again among other things), the fact is nonetheless that you do have to be subscribed to acess anything above level 20 (and since max level is actualy 110, it really is the unlimited time trial that they bill it to be)

I actualy enjoy GW2 for what it is - its a beautiful game that is quite lovely to explore, especially if you have a max level character, so you are not limited by level as to where you can go. ESO is a beautiful game as well, but GW2 provides this ..watercolor almost different style aesthetic which is a nice change of pace. but... recently, during open acess weekend to new expansion.. I realized just how much I've been spoiled by ESO combat, when it comes to action based combat systems. I'm by no means an amazing player, especially at action combat, but my god, GW2 felt so much clunkier...

secret world, the original was a fascinating game, mainly its story. legends reboot.. was.. disappointing. oh, the story is still there, but its f2p model is... not good. secret world used to be as good as ESO in terms of how it handled its non subscribers, but with legends... I mean.. I guess you don't have to buy content packs anymore, but day to day play is so limited in return.. I'd rather go back to buying content packs.

anyways. most MMO's have something that is particularly appealing to different kinds of people that make those MMO's preferable for them, over other options. for me, visiting those MMO's makes me appreciate many aspects of ESO all the more.

Transmog is on its way in ESO. But first will be Transmutation.

Lokryn

I like both games but WoW definitely has some better aspects than ESO. The biggest being Endgame PVE and PVP. I also like the world quest system in WoW.

I also agree with a previous post that the classes in WoW feel much more distinct and flavorful than ESO. I wish they never gave ESO classes in the first place but I understand the reasoning.

Linaleah

if there's one thing that I feel WoW is unequivocally doing better then ESO aside from more in game mounts and pets (I understand why ESO has them mostly in cash shop - its a price of genuinely optional subscription, but it doesn't mean I cannot appreciate being able to earn rewards in game) its existence of /follow command and passenger mounts.

but dear god, WoW pvp is.... far more all over the place then ESO. sure competitive arenas are fun to watch and they make an attempt to balance them because its competitive with monetary prizes involved (and STILL aren't doing a good job at at it) but on lower levels... even after removal of pvp specific stats its STILL as bad if not worse then when trying to play inside a Vivec on a sub 50 character with little to no CP.

meanwhile.. with all that talk of WoW, I played some more of it the other night. picked up my rogue, after a long time not playing her. dear. mother . of god. they pruned her to the point where not only she feels as squishy as a nighblade in starter gear but she feels like a nighblade in a crappy starter gear with her only self heal being extremely weak, long CD hot that does little to nothing if maker help you, you pull more then 2 mobs at a time (which in wow is pretty regular appearance as mobs often like to congregate in groups of 3 or more and not all of them can be cced via sap). had a few funny moments when I tried to get behind mobs to pickpocket them only to remember that in magical wow - pickpocketing is far less interesting.

I'll take my ESO classes where I can actualy pick and chose from wide variety of abilities, including 3 skill lines worth of class specific stuff, and to hell with meta - over "here's 3 buttons you can push and that's about it. oh right, you get button number 4 that you can hit once a minute, after you hit lvl 100" WoW today is ... not the WoW some of you remember.

P.S. world quests... aaah, world quests... the only difference between them and ESO dailies is that they pick bonus quest zone each day to give you extra reward bag in which you might... MIGHT get a legendary something. aside from that, its a slightly different packaging for the same old thing. in retrospect... not much different at all from pledges actualy. heck, given blizzard's history of ... borrowing ideas from other games, i wouldn't put it past them to have gotten "inspired" by ESO

srfrogg23

Lokryn wrote: »

I like both games but WoW definitely has some better aspects than ESO. The biggest being Endgame PVE and PVP. I also like the world quest system in WoW.

I also agree with a previous post that the classes in WoW feel much more distinct and flavorful than ESO. I wish they never gave ESO classes in the first place but I understand the reasoning.

I initially liked world quests because I like the Bounty system in Diablo 3, but found they got real stale, real fast. I really think the problem was with the mob density and respawn rates though. The Legion content is so, so overly reliant on rapidly respawning trash mobs, and that just makes the wq’s so much more “grindy” than they need to be.

I really think ESO has a massive advantage when it comes to replaying dailies because of that. Traveling on foot in ESO is far better and completing quests isn’t nearly as immersion breaking because they don’t have huge numbers of mobs respawning 5-10 seconds after they’re killed. I also like ESO’s variety of daily quests a little better. Zenimax isn’t relying on mob grinding as a way of slowing players down to extend their content.

I’ve got the thieves guild and dark brotherhood, and just with the way stealth and crime works in ESO, it becomes a viable mechanism for creating more gameplay variety for any class.

I also noticed the more “regulated” class-fantasy got real boring, real fast. Yeah, the archetypes are easier to use and easier to understand at a glance, but there’s no depth or room for creativity. They’re Blizzard’s classes, not ours.

The nice thing about ESO is that when you piece together a build, for better or worse, it’s yours. It’s not strictly regulated by Zenimax for E-Sports purposes.

Astarana

For me the main difference between WoW and Eso is the grind. In WoW you had to grind dungeon, then raid, then bigger raid. Everything else was just a "addition" that is not important and not very developed. In ESO, I'm CP 360 and I did maybe 2 group dungeons total so far, no trials at all and I'm pretty happy and busy with doing everything else that is considered "addition" in WoW .
Again, it's totally my take on these two games.

neverwalk

In ESO you can actually sneak your way up to the Bosses, avoiding the mass minions.

Dreepa

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Please do not replace depth and complexity with rapidly respawning trash mobs!

Where exactly did you see that in the overworld content?

To me the experience is: Spam damage. Wait for enemy to die. Finish quest.

Nothing feels climatic. Nothing feels like "Aha! That is how you do it."

Or: "Wow, that guy went down with a boom".

Dungeons etc. OK! I understand.

But overworld is as boring as it can get in terms of game-play patterns and combat variation.

Nyladreas

I completely agree. I first got ESO just to try something different and I ended up cancelling my WoW sub for 2 months. Now It's been over year and a half since I've last played Warcraft. Haven't gone back even once.

Jeremy

d0e1ow wrote: »

This game could take a lot of lessons from WoW. There is a reason WoW is number 1 and this game... well... isn't. And no, I don't play WoW anymore, so don't start up with accusing me of being an apologist. I just think OP is delusional that he thinks being allowed to "make mistakes" is enjoyable or fun for probably 90% of the game's community, especially because the way you realize you made a mistake is via the community berating you and wasting your time.

I suspect that the real reason WoW is still number 1 is because they were the first MMORPG to market extensively in China (the most populated country on earth).

For an example of what I mean: the World of Warcraft movie (which actually weren't half bad) under-performed here in America - yet did very well in China. And according to my information: the amount of players on their China realms outnumber the United States, Cananda, and the entire North American realms.

Wow was also the first MMORPG I can think of that came up with a group-finding tool that made it easy to put players together to do dungeons and other content (something that was sorely lacking in other MMORPGs at the time and was probably the main reason most of them could not compete). It's just not very fun waiting around in town trying to find a group for hours.

I guess my point is I seriously doubt that WoW's lack of choices when building your character is the reason it's number 1.

Doctordarkspawn

srfrogg23 wrote: »

My wife and I recently renewed our subscriptions to WoW and holy crap, WoW is not what it used to be. ESO, is what WoW used to be, these days.

I think it has a lot to do with the open world design and RPG customization of each game. ESO allows players the flexibility to create "bad builds", and that's great! There are even mechanics that require some additional conversation and trial and error to be fully understood. WoW has become so streamlined and so dumbed down, the game won't allow players to make mistakes anymore. I think something fundamental to RPG gameplay was lost from WoW because of that.

The open world content is also vastly different. ESO is not cluttered with pointless stat-bag trash mobs. I can actually poke around and explore without having to constantly fight something trivial. In WoW, on the other hand, it's like "move 5 feet, kill something, move 5 feet, kill something...". Exploring isn't fun in that game anymore. Blizzard employees occasionally pop into the forums and say "it's more dangerous that way", whenever someone mentions it. I disagree. It's just grindy and obnoxious.

I guess this thread is really just a minor plea to Zos to never, ever, ever follow Blizzard's example. Please, please, please don't dumb down your RPG mechanics based on utilitarian ideologies. Please do not replace depth and complexity with rapidly respawning trash mobs!

ESO is what WoW used to be?

Is that why it's so garbage? Because Old WoW sucked.

Lokryn

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Lokryn wrote: »

I like both games but WoW definitely has some better aspects than ESO. The biggest being Endgame PVE and PVP. I also like the world quest system in WoW.

I also agree with a previous post that the classes in WoW feel much more distinct and flavorful than ESO. I wish they never gave ESO classes in the first place but I understand the reasoning.

I initially liked world quests because I like the Bounty system in Diablo 3, but found they got real stale, real fast. I really think the problem was with the mob density and respawn rates though. The Legion content is so, so overly reliant on rapidly respawning trash mobs, and that just makes the wq’s so much more “grindy” than they need to be.

I really think ESO has a massive advantage when it comes to replaying dailies because of that. Traveling on foot in ESO is far better and completing quests isn’t nearly as immersion breaking because they don’t have huge numbers of mobs respawning 5-10 seconds after they’re killed. I also like ESO’s variety of daily quests a little better. Zenimax isn’t relying on mob grinding as a way of slowing players down to extend their content.

I’ve got the thieves guild and dark brotherhood, and just with the way stealth and crime works in ESO, it becomes a viable mechanism for creating more gameplay variety for any class.

I also noticed the more “regulated” class-fantasy got real boring, real fast. Yeah, the archetypes are easier to use and easier to understand at a glance, but there’s no depth or room for creativity. They’re Blizzard’s classes, not ours.

The nice thing about ESO is that when you piece together a build, for better or worse, it’s yours. It’s not strictly regulated by Zenimax for E-Sports purposes.

I should clarify why I like WoW world quests.

First of all, they are easy to get in and do. You just walk or fly into the area and immediately get the quest, I don't have to talk to any NPC and I get a nice popup of the quest giver giving me instructions on the quest. I have flying unlocked so mob respawn is not a problem.

Secondly, the quests themselves are actually kinda fun, like the Kirin Tor quests where you play some mini-game or when the Legion strikes a zone and all the quests turn into Legion quests and then you have to take down the leader after doing a scenario. Or Suramar where you have to steal mana and load it into a boat or place fliers on the buildings.

Thirdly, rewards. WQ's give great rewards where the ilvl of the reward is often just 5-10 ilvl higher no matter how high or low your ilvl is. It makes the quest feel like I'm accomplishing something.

srfrogg23

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

My wife and I recently renewed our subscriptions to WoW and holy crap, WoW is not what it used to be. ESO, is what WoW used to be, these days.

I think it has a lot to do with the open world design and RPG customization of each game. ESO allows players the flexibility to create "bad builds", and that's great! There are even mechanics that require some additional conversation and trial and error to be fully understood. WoW has become so streamlined and so dumbed down, the game won't allow players to make mistakes anymore. I think something fundamental to RPG gameplay was lost from WoW because of that.

The open world content is also vastly different. ESO is not cluttered with pointless stat-bag trash mobs. I can actually poke around and explore without having to constantly fight something trivial. In WoW, on the other hand, it's like "move 5 feet, kill something, move 5 feet, kill something...". Exploring isn't fun in that game anymore. Blizzard employees occasionally pop into the forums and say "it's more dangerous that way", whenever someone mentions it. I disagree. It's just grindy and obnoxious.

I guess this thread is really just a minor plea to Zos to never, ever, ever follow Blizzard's example. Please, please, please don't dumb down your RPG mechanics based on utilitarian ideologies. Please do not replace depth and complexity with rapidly respawning trash mobs!

ESO is what WoW used to be?

Is that why it's so garbage? Because Old WoW sucked.

I wouldn’t really say it’s “garbage”...

It’s more like WoW has become a “digital theme park”, while ESO has retained its identity as a “fictional world” that seems like if it was possible, Tamriel could be a “real” place.

WoW, not so much. It feels more like “<-this way to Space Mountain, that way to the Tea Cups->”.