Serious discussion about crouch

laissezfaire

The ability to crouch in PvP is terrible; how does one crouch and not to be able to be seen by anyone? I think pvp would be better off if the only ways to become invisible were via pots, cp passive and cloak.

catalyst10e

Suppose they did remove crouching into stealth. and as you said, the only ways to become invisible are through pots, cp passives, and cloaking.

How does the combat really change? If I can't crouch to stealth but instead drink a potion, the only difference there is which button I press. This also gives a very distinct advantage over the players who can afford to just buy hundreds of stacks of the potion.

At least with crouch there's a bit of a timer to it, its not as if the second I crouch I'm completely invisible to everyone, theres a couple seconds of transition there. Also, get too close to anyone and you're detected.

I'm not sure why you dont like crouching, but its the most unreliable form of stealth, so theres no reason to remove it. Use detect pots if you really dont like people going invisible.

Leandor

Am I the only one who read "crotch" in the thread title?

Storymaster

I came here for a serious discussion about



and all I got was something related to stealthing in PvP.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdEQmpVIE4A

laissezfaire

Leandor wrote: »

Am I the only one who read "crotch" in the thread title?

Lol. You are getting a little too serious.

laissezfaire

catalyst10e wrote: »

Suppose they did remove crouching into stealth. and as you said, the only ways to become invisible are through pots, cp passives, and cloaking.

How does the combat really change? If I can't crouch to stealth but instead drink a potion, the only difference there is which button I press. This also gives a very distinct advantage over the players who can afford to just buy hundreds of stacks of the potion.

At least with crouch there's a bit of a timer to it, its not as if the second I crouch I'm completely invisible to everyone, theres a couple seconds of transition there. Also, get too close to anyone and you're detected.

I'm not sure why you dont like crouching, but its the most unreliable form of stealth, so theres no reason to remove it. Use detect pots if you really dont like people going invisible.

Combat would change significantly. People wouldn't use invisibility pots as much as they use crouch because they wouldn't be able to use other pots.

I think this would affect small scale pvp more so than large scale. And i think that is where the problem lies. If 4 people are stealth ganking and I am solo, there isnt much room for error on my part. And no one wants to spam inner light consistently every time they 'walk' to keep. I say walk because you would have to dismount every few seconds to use inner light or whatever other skill.

In the other hand if the 4 people couldn't stealth, i would have time to buff, etc or if i feel I wouldn't be able 1vX then i would be able to try to avoid them.

Now, to be fair, I don't think one ganker is a big issue but what ruins it is when you get these people who only find success in killing when they are with 4 other people timing ultis from stealth.

Alpheu5

Then how will I go afk open-world?

laissezfaire

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Then how will I go afk open-world?

Well, if you are bosmer, I suggest climbing a tree.

laissezfaire

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Then how will I go afk open-world?

But in all seriousness, shouldn't there be risk in going afk. Maybe this will bring about a change in etiquette. If i come across someone afk and not in stealth, i just let them be.

catalyst10e

moltzdc wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Suppose they did remove crouching into stealth. and as you said, the only ways to become invisible are through pots, cp passives, and cloaking.

How does the combat really change? If I can't crouch to stealth but instead drink a potion, the only difference there is which button I press. This also gives a very distinct advantage over the players who can afford to just buy hundreds of stacks of the potion.

At least with crouch there's a bit of a timer to it, its not as if the second I crouch I'm completely invisible to everyone, theres a couple seconds of transition there. Also, get too close to anyone and you're detected.

I'm not sure why you dont like crouching, but its the most unreliable form of stealth, so theres no reason to remove it. Use detect pots if you really dont like people going invisible.

Combat would change significantly. People wouldn't use invisibility pots as much as they use crouch because they wouldn't be able to use other pots.

I think this would affect small scale pvp more so than large scale. And i think that is where the problem lies. If 4 people are stealth ganking and I am solo, there isnt much room for error on my part. And no one wants to spam inner light consistently every time they 'walk' to keep. I say walk because you would have to dismount every few seconds to use inner light or whatever other skill.

In the other hand if the 4 people couldn't stealth, i would have time to buff, etc or if i feel I wouldn't be able 1vX then i would be able to try to avoid them.

Now, to be fair, I don't think one ganker is a big issue but what ruins it is when you get these people who only find success in killing when they are with 4 other people timing ultis from stealth.

Who is really spamming crouch tho? The players I mostly see who really utilize it is Nightblades who use it with cloak, or they crouch well in advance of any sort of fight. That negates the "cool down" on the potion. If its just the choices between using a resource pot, or an invisible pot, the invisible pot beats out the resource since (as we see with cloak) losing sight of the opponent can essentially reset the fight and get you resources back, PLUS you're invisible and can strike from anywhere.

At least with crouching it's not instant.

In the 4 v 1 scenario you describe, theres a few problems. First, if youre the 1 in the 4v1, it doesnt matter if the 4 are in stealth or not, you're most likely going to lose that fight. Crouch in that scenario benefits the 1 in the 1v4 so removing it would hurt small scale more than help. If you're the 4 in the 4v1, you have the numbers to look for the NB or at the very least defend yourselves once he attacks from stealth (IF they attack at all)

WITH crouch you have the ability to avoid the 4, or buff up (as most buffs dont break stealth) and attack, or any number of other options. If no one can crouch they would mow you down unless you already had a invis pot active.

I get it, it's annoying when a good group times everything out and executes it with precision, and you feel like theres not much you can do about it, but those same people would just use invis pots instead of crouching... it doesnt effect their playstyle at all. They are still well coordinated, geared out, and dropping multiple massive AOE ultis is hard to survive through. If that's what you're looking to counter I'd say maybe put a cool down timer on Ultis, at least then that group couldnt ulti bomb, and then use the remaining people alive to generate more ulti to do it again nearly immediately.

Crouch isnt the issue in the above suggested scenarios. it's a valid tool that a lot of solo players utilize to escape large zergs.

Minno

Leandor wrote: »

Am I the only one who read "crotch" in the thread title?

Dat Gap....(closer).

laissezfaire

catalyst10e wrote: »

moltzdc wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Suppose they did remove crouching into stealth. and as you said, the only ways to become invisible are through pots, cp passives, and cloaking.

How does the combat really change? If I can't crouch to stealth but instead drink a potion, the only difference there is which button I press. This also gives a very distinct advantage over the players who can afford to just buy hundreds of stacks of the potion.

At least with crouch there's a bit of a timer to it, its not as if the second I crouch I'm completely invisible to everyone, theres a couple seconds of transition there. Also, get too close to anyone and you're detected.

I'm not sure why you dont like crouching, but its the most unreliable form of stealth, so theres no reason to remove it. Use detect pots if you really dont like people going invisible.

Combat would change significantly. People wouldn't use invisibility pots as much as they use crouch because they wouldn't be able to use other pots.

I think this would affect small scale pvp more so than large scale. And i think that is where the problem lies. If 4 people are stealth ganking and I am solo, there isnt much room for error on my part. And no one wants to spam inner light consistently every time they 'walk' to keep. I say walk because you would have to dismount every few seconds to use inner light or whatever other skill.

In the other hand if the 4 people couldn't stealth, i would have time to buff, etc or if i feel I wouldn't be able 1vX then i would be able to try to avoid them.

Now, to be fair, I don't think one ganker is a big issue but what ruins it is when you get these people who only find success in killing when they are with 4 other people timing ultis from stealth.

Who is really spamming crouch tho? The players I mostly see who really utilize it is Nightblades who use it with cloak, or they crouch well in advance of any sort of fight. That negates the "cool down" on the potion. If its just the choices between using a resource pot, or an invisible pot, the invisible pot beats out the resource since (as we see with cloak) losing sight of the opponent can essentially reset the fight and get you resources back, PLUS you're invisible and can strike from anywhere.

At least with crouching it's not instant.

In the 4 v 1 scenario you describe, theres a few problems. First, if youre the 1 in the 4v1, it doesnt matter if the 4 are in stealth or not, you're most likely going to lose that fight. Crouch in that scenario benefits the 1 in the 1v4 so removing it would hurt small scale more than help. If you're the 4 in the 4v1, you have the numbers to look for the NB or at the very least defend yourselves once he attacks from stealth (IF they attack at all)

WITH crouch you have the ability to avoid the 4, or buff up (as most buffs dont break stealth) and attack, or any number of other options. If no one can crouch they would mow you down unless you already had a invis pot active.

I get it, it's annoying when a good group times everything out and executes it with precision, and you feel like theres not much you can do about it, but those same people would just use invis pots instead of crouching... it doesnt effect their playstyle at all. They are still well coordinated, geared out, and dropping multiple massive AOE ultis is hard to survive through. If that's what you're looking to counter I'd say maybe put a cool down timer on Ultis, at least then that group couldnt ulti bomb, and then use the remaining people alive to generate more ulti to do it again nearly immediately.

Crouch isnt the issue in the above suggested scenarios. it's a valid tool that a lot of solo players utilize to escape large zergs.

In the scenario where the 4 are in perma-stealth via crouch, how is the 1 person to know that they are even there without spamming some sort of detection mechanism? The stealth people have the advantage. And by using said detection mechanisms then the advantage still goes the stealth because you have use resources or pot.

I just don't see how crouch is 'helping' the pvp experience. Yah, stealthing from zergs is one thing but I would rather have them chase me down and earn the kill if they so choose. But perma-crouch is mostly used by people aren't very good and I don't think they should be given such an easy out.

laissezfaire

In the case of escaping a zerg, that would be a perfect opportunity to use an invisibility pot... no need for crouch.

catalyst10e

moltzdc wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

moltzdc wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Suppose they did remove crouching into stealth. and as you said, the only ways to become invisible are through pots, cp passives, and cloaking.

How does the combat really change? If I can't crouch to stealth but instead drink a potion, the only difference there is which button I press. This also gives a very distinct advantage over the players who can afford to just buy hundreds of stacks of the potion.

At least with crouch there's a bit of a timer to it, its not as if the second I crouch I'm completely invisible to everyone, theres a couple seconds of transition there. Also, get too close to anyone and you're detected.

I'm not sure why you dont like crouching, but its the most unreliable form of stealth, so theres no reason to remove it. Use detect pots if you really dont like people going invisible.

Combat would change significantly. People wouldn't use invisibility pots as much as they use crouch because they wouldn't be able to use other pots.

I think this would affect small scale pvp more so than large scale. And i think that is where the problem lies. If 4 people are stealth ganking and I am solo, there isnt much room for error on my part. And no one wants to spam inner light consistently every time they 'walk' to keep. I say walk because you would have to dismount every few seconds to use inner light or whatever other skill.

In the other hand if the 4 people couldn't stealth, i would have time to buff, etc or if i feel I wouldn't be able 1vX then i would be able to try to avoid them.

Now, to be fair, I don't think one ganker is a big issue but what ruins it is when you get these people who only find success in killing when they are with 4 other people timing ultis from stealth.

Who is really spamming crouch tho? The players I mostly see who really utilize it is Nightblades who use it with cloak, or they crouch well in advance of any sort of fight. That negates the "cool down" on the potion. If its just the choices between using a resource pot, or an invisible pot, the invisible pot beats out the resource since (as we see with cloak) losing sight of the opponent can essentially reset the fight and get you resources back, PLUS you're invisible and can strike from anywhere.

At least with crouching it's not instant.

In the 4 v 1 scenario you describe, theres a few problems. First, if youre the 1 in the 4v1, it doesnt matter if the 4 are in stealth or not, you're most likely going to lose that fight. Crouch in that scenario benefits the 1 in the 1v4 so removing it would hurt small scale more than help. If you're the 4 in the 4v1, you have the numbers to look for the NB or at the very least defend yourselves once he attacks from stealth (IF they attack at all)

WITH crouch you have the ability to avoid the 4, or buff up (as most buffs dont break stealth) and attack, or any number of other options. If no one can crouch they would mow you down unless you already had a invis pot active.

I get it, it's annoying when a good group times everything out and executes it with precision, and you feel like theres not much you can do about it, but those same people would just use invis pots instead of crouching... it doesnt effect their playstyle at all. They are still well coordinated, geared out, and dropping multiple massive AOE ultis is hard to survive through. If that's what you're looking to counter I'd say maybe put a cool down timer on Ultis, at least then that group couldnt ulti bomb, and then use the remaining people alive to generate more ulti to do it again nearly immediately.

Crouch isnt the issue in the above suggested scenarios. it's a valid tool that a lot of solo players utilize to escape large zergs.

In the scenario where the 4 are in perma-stealth via crouch, how is the 1 person to know that they are even there without spamming some sort of detection mechanism? The stealth people have the advantage. And by using said detection mechanisms then the advantage still goes the stealth because you have use resources or pot.

I just don't see how crouch is 'helping' the pvp experience. Yah, stealthing from zergs is one thing but I would rather have them chase me down and earn the kill if they so choose. But perma-crouch is mostly used by people aren't very good and I don't think they should be given such an easy out.

I can ask the same thing of the invis pots tho.
4 are in perma stealth via invis pots or cloak. In the case of cloak, they're not even really losing any resources, hows it any different than crouching? but again, even if they werent in stealth at all, if you get mowed down by 4 people and theres only 1 of you chances are you were going to lose regardless, and the stealth aspect of it has nothing to do with it. Except now you've removed your own option of possibly getting away.

I can give you several scenarios crouching has helped me. I main a magic sorc.

Scenario 1: Escape. Sometimes when I'm facing way too many people and about to get zerged down, I can streak +boundless storm to gain some distance duck behind a rock for line of sight and then crouch to stealth and move out of the area. I survive the encounter, maintain my position and once the zerg has passed or given up, I can then pick off stragglers or those who stayed behind looking for me.

Scenario 2: Scouting. as a magic sorc, crouching stealth allows me to scout ahead a bit. I can't just be spamming my shields 100% of the time to stay alive. I'm a gankers dream in all light armor. But with crouch I can survey the battle field, maintain distance, and decide if I want to engage the enemy or not. Next time you go into PVP look on the map for a conflict, and go to it, then without using crouch try and scope out whats going on, whos fighting, wheres the breach, etc. If its the enemy I'd put money on 20 people running right for you. and what fun is it to constantly get zerged?

Scenario 3: Set a trap. I can take a resource by myself, and then hide, waiting for the enemy to come and try and flip. If the enemy sees someone just standing there witht he NPCs they're not going to fight all of you, most would just walk away. The trap works when the enemy thinks no one is there. Now, you may not like when someone does this, but it's a valid form of combat, and it's easily avoided, just dont go to the resource. (or dont go alone at least)

Scenario 4: Resurrection. I cant count the number of times team mates have died and I managed to escape, and stealth my way back to res them. removing crouch makes this either an impossible task or something only the rich can do which leads me to....

Scenario 5: economy. removing crouching and giving the non-NB classes the only option of invis pots would cause those ingredient and potion prices to skyrocket. This creates the situation i mentioned before where only the rich or truely dedicated can escape fights or stealth res now.

Scenario 6: the Imperial City. Gankers love IC, like a fat kid loves cake. If I couldn't stealth without the assistance of a pot, I'd never get around in there at all.

Scenario 7: It promotes the ganker style. Since you mentioned the gankers before, remove crouch doesnt effect them, most of them are NBs already who would still have cloak to remain hidden. Cloak allows them to be standing right next to you undetected. At least Crouch stealth breaks when you get too close to enemies. Remove crouch and the game becomes zerg v zerg with hidden NBs everywhere waiting to pounce on eachother.

I could go on but you get the idea. I sympathize with you, I understand you've probably been in some scenarios where the enemy kept getting away from crouch and you didnt want to waste the resources spamming AOEs or mage light looking for them. It annoyed you and you'd like to see it removed. I've been there, I cant count the number of times I've yelled "stupid immovable pots" when I can't CC the enemy at all ever. But it doesnt mean they should be removed. theres a lot of utility there and I'm also willing to bet you avoid using crouch because you hate that style of play so much... But give it a shot, utilize it, it's a tool we all have.

Rohamad_Ali

It is a core mechanism in all ES games . Having an expectation of its removal is unrealistic to the franchise . It is the way they made stealth and I would not expect them to remove it . Also the realistic argument in a world full of wizards , 360 degrees of block and rebuilding a castle wall in seconds by one person is nullified .

idk

moltzdc wrote: »

The ability to crouch in PvP is terrible; how does one crouch and not to be able to be seen by anyone? I think pvp would be better off if the only ways to become invisible were via pots, cp passive and cloak.

That doesn't seem to be the start of. Serious discussion on the subject but merely your oppinion.

It's a mechanic of the game. How do we pick up a stick and have fire balls come out of it? It's called game design and mechanics. Just as other mechanics of the game improve the effectiveness of sneaking around such as medium armor passives. It's inherently part of the game it permeates into various skill lines, racial passives, armor set bonus and CP.

For my personal oppinion, I think it's good that more than one or two classes can play somewhat stealthy.

laissezfaire

I am not coming to the forums as part of some emotional episode but as a logical one. I can live with or without crouch.

Just wanted to get people's opinion.

laissezfaire

catalyst10e wrote: »

I can ask the same thing of the invis pots tho.
4 are in perma stealth via invis pots or cloak. In the case of cloak, they're not even really losing any resources, hows it any different than crouching? but again, even if they werent in stealth at all, if you get mowed down by 4 people and theres only 1 of you chances are you were going to lose regardless, and the stealth aspect of it has nothing to do with it. Except now you've removed your own option of possibly getting away.

I can give you several scenarios crouching has helped me. I main a magic sorc.

Scenario 1: Escape. Sometimes when I'm facing way too many people and about to get zerged down, I can streak +boundless storm to gain some distance duck behind a rock for line of sight and then crouch to stealth and move out of the area. I survive the encounter, maintain my position and once the zerg has passed or given up, I can then pick off stragglers or those who stayed behind looking for me.

Scenario 2: Scouting. as a magic sorc, crouching stealth allows me to scout ahead a bit. I can't just be spamming my shields 100% of the time to stay alive. I'm a gankers dream in all light armor. But with crouch I can survey the battle field, maintain distance, and decide if I want to engage the enemy or not. Next time you go into PVP look on the map for a conflict, and go to it, then without using crouch try and scope out whats going on, whos fighting, wheres the breach, etc. If its the enemy I'd put money on 20 people running right for you. and what fun is it to constantly get zerged?

Scenario 3: Set a trap. I can take a resource by myself, and then hide, waiting for the enemy to come and try and flip. If the enemy sees someone just standing there witht he NPCs they're not going to fight all of you, most would just walk away. The trap works when the enemy thinks no one is there. Now, you may not like when someone does this, but it's a valid form of combat, and it's easily avoided, just dont go to the resource. (or dont go alone at least)

Scenario 4: Resurrection. I cant count the number of times team mates have died and I managed to escape, and stealth my way back to res them. removing crouch makes this either an impossible task or something only the rich can do which leads me to....

Scenario 5: economy. removing crouching and giving the non-NB classes the only option of invis pots would cause those ingredient and potion prices to skyrocket. This creates the situation i mentioned before where only the rich or truely dedicated can escape fights or stealth res now.

Scenario 6: the Imperial City. Gankers love IC, like a fat kid loves cake. If I couldn't stealth without the assistance of a pot, I'd never get around in there at all.

Scenario 7: It promotes the ganker style. Since you mentioned the gankers before, remove crouch doesnt effect them, most of them are NBs already who would still have cloak to remain hidden. Cloak allows them to be standing right next to you undetected. At least Crouch stealth breaks when you get too close to enemies. Remove crouch and the game becomes zerg v zerg with hidden NBs everywhere waiting to pounce on eachother.

I could go on but you get the idea. I sympathize with you, I understand you've probably been in some scenarios where the enemy kept getting away from crouch and you didnt want to waste the resources spamming AOEs or mage light looking for them. It annoyed you and you'd like to see it removed. I've been there, I cant count the number of times I've yelled "stupid immovable pots" when I can't CC the enemy at all ever. But it doesnt mean they should be removed. theres a lot of utility there and I'm also willing to bet you avoid using crouch because you hate that style of play so much... But give it a shot, utilize it, it's a tool we all have.

Getting rid of crouch wouldn't promote ganking or making it easier for you to get ganked. Perma-crouch is how gankers profit. I am not sure how much you actually pvp based on your statements.

idk

moltzdc wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

I can ask the same thing of the invis pots tho.
4 are in perma stealth via invis pots or cloak. In the case of cloak, they're not even really losing any resources, hows it any different than crouching? but again, even if they werent in stealth at all, if you get mowed down by 4 people and theres only 1 of you chances are you were going to lose regardless, and the stealth aspect of it has nothing to do with it. Except now you've removed your own option of possibly getting away.

I can give you several scenarios crouching has helped me. I main a magic sorc.

Scenario 1: Escape. Sometimes when I'm facing way too many people and about to get zerged down, I can streak +boundless storm to gain some distance duck behind a rock for line of sight and then crouch to stealth and move out of the area. I survive the encounter, maintain my position and once the zerg has passed or given up, I can then pick off stragglers or those who stayed behind looking for me.

Scenario 2: Scouting. as a magic sorc, crouching stealth allows me to scout ahead a bit. I can't just be spamming my shields 100% of the time to stay alive. I'm a gankers dream in all light armor. But with crouch I can survey the battle field, maintain distance, and decide if I want to engage the enemy or not. Next time you go into PVP look on the map for a conflict, and go to it, then without using crouch try and scope out whats going on, whos fighting, wheres the breach, etc. If its the enemy I'd put money on 20 people running right for you. and what fun is it to constantly get zerged?

Scenario 3: Set a trap. I can take a resource by myself, and then hide, waiting for the enemy to come and try and flip. If the enemy sees someone just standing there witht he NPCs they're not going to fight all of you, most would just walk away. The trap works when the enemy thinks no one is there. Now, you may not like when someone does this, but it's a valid form of combat, and it's easily avoided, just dont go to the resource. (or dont go alone at least)

Scenario 4: Resurrection. I cant count the number of times team mates have died and I managed to escape, and stealth my way back to res them. removing crouch makes this either an impossible task or something only the rich can do which leads me to....

Scenario 5: economy. removing crouching and giving the non-NB classes the only option of invis pots would cause those ingredient and potion prices to skyrocket. This creates the situation i mentioned before where only the rich or truely dedicated can escape fights or stealth res now.

Scenario 6: the Imperial City. Gankers love IC, like a fat kid loves cake. If I couldn't stealth without the assistance of a pot, I'd never get around in there at all.

Scenario 7: It promotes the ganker style. Since you mentioned the gankers before, remove crouch doesnt effect them, most of them are NBs already who would still have cloak to remain hidden. Cloak allows them to be standing right next to you undetected. At least Crouch stealth breaks when you get too close to enemies. Remove crouch and the game becomes zerg v zerg with hidden NBs everywhere waiting to pounce on eachother.

I could go on but you get the idea. I sympathize with you, I understand you've probably been in some scenarios where the enemy kept getting away from crouch and you didnt want to waste the resources spamming AOEs or mage light looking for them. It annoyed you and you'd like to see it removed. I've been there, I cant count the number of times I've yelled "stupid immovable pots" when I can't CC the enemy at all ever. But it doesnt mean they should be removed. theres a lot of utility there and I'm also willing to bet you avoid using crouch because you hate that style of play so much... But give it a shot, utilize it, it's a tool we all have.

Getting rid of crouch wouldn't promote ganking or making it easier for you to get ganked. Perma-crouch is how gankers profit. I am not sure how much you actually pvp based on your statements.

so this is not about sneaking. This is about getting ganked. Really cannot tell you much other than I do not get ganked often. Probably because I avoid the popular ganking areas and those that cannot be avoided I take extra precaution.

The reality is being able to sneak as we do not is not going to go away. It is very much incorporated into the game as I mentioned previously.

Lieblingsjunge

I've said it before and I've said it again: #REMOVESNEAK from PvP areas. (Sneak - as in the *crouch down and hide with 20 others from my faction in one tight corner*).

It's illogical and its not even possible to hide 20 people in sneak in one tight corner, yo. Just remove it already. That way - cloak on NBs would feel more powerful, invisibility potions would be used - and people would think twice about crouching and sneaking to ressurrect their fallen teammates constantly.

Skinzz

Crouch is fine the way it is. Way too easy to pull players out of stealth.

Gilvoth

another horrible request to remove stealth from PvP.
i am nightblade and i die if i don't have stealth.
my play-style is all about stealth, please don't remove stealth.

Sedare

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

I've said it before and I've said it again: #REMOVESNEAK from PvP areas. (Sneak - as in the *crouch down and hide with 20 others from my faction in one tight corner*).

It's illogical and its not even possible to hide 20 people in sneak in one tight corner, yo. Just remove it already. That way - cloak on NBs would feel more powerful, invisibility potions would be used - and people would think twice about crouching and sneaking to ressurrect their fallen teammates constantly.

I'm gonna be mean here: This is dumb. Why not retitle the thread "Nerf Nightblades More." You know what else is illogical full healing of 1 button press when you're at a sliver of health.

Fine I tell you what, you get rid of crouch, but make cloak cost 100 stam or magika per cast, and give back the dot scrubbing ability.

Some people.

laissezfaire

Sedare wrote: »

I'm gonna be mean here: This is dumb. Why not retitle the thread "Nerf Nightblades More." You know what else is illogical full healing of 1 button press when you're at a sliver of health.

Fine I tell you what, you get rid of crouch, but make cloak cost 100 stam or magika per cast, and give back the dot scrubbing ability.

Some people.

Triggered...

But in all honesty, i would be on board with buffing cloak if crouch was gone.

Kram8ion

What? You want to remove invisible crouch and then make players use pots for invisibility when you yourself could just use a detection pot without removing skills
Sounds selfish and cheap

Alpheu5

Imagine if character models had collision boxes while in Cyrodiil. Tanks up front to keep people from getting into a breached wall while the DPS shoots from the back lol

Xsorus

Well I can tell you what would happen, you'd remove a large swath of the small scale pvp in the game all cause you want to Zerg down solo players more effectively.

geonsocal

one of the coolest things I've seen in cyrodiil was soloing brk mine, standing at the flag just as it was turning to my alliance and suddenly watching a group of about 12 players unstealth by the tower door...

I was laughing too hard to try to run or put up any kind of fight - i just waved hello as they swarmed me...

Zvorgin

Change "get rid of croutch" to "get rid of stealth" and I'm in board.

Betsararie

Nerf crouch too?

Timeraider

Just save your mountstamina and rush through them before they throw you off