No status effects on shieldstackers?

DeHei

Is this some kind of kidding the PvP community and a passive buff for sorcs again? (Maybe in the hope nobody is testing this...)
We dont have the clockwork city update, but we will. Why to hell does shieldstacking saves for statuseffects?
We have 2 magicka classes, who has access to bigger shields very easy in reason of stacking more magicka with pets. Sorcs and Warden. For Staminaplayer there is only the StaminaDK. All other have much more worse versions of shields. Blazing shield for example... isnt good anymore for PvP...

So @ZOS_GinaBruno or someone else from Zenimaxteam, pls explain us all, why no statuseffect is working while your opponent has a active shield?
I am very interested to hear a satisfying answer...
[edited for profanity bypass]

Turelus

Was this an announced change or are you saying you've found a bug where it's not working?

The person to know would probably be @Wrobel as he's the skills/combat guy at ZOS.

DeHei

Turelus wrote: »

Was this an announced change or are you saying you've found a bug where it's not working?

The person to know would probably be @Wrobel as he's the skills/combat guy at ZOS.

Some guys tested it, before the clockworkcity update starts live... There is a new destrostaff asylum weapon, what grant all 3 statuseffects at 1 target every 4 sec. So you are possible to hold the statuseffects up in 95+% of time at 1 target. With testest, no statuseffect work against shields.. this is ***. There is no reason for that!

Turelus

DeHei wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Was this an announced change or are you saying you've found a bug where it's not working?

The person to know would probably be Wrobel as he's the skills/combat guy at ZOS.

Some guys tested it, before the clockworkcity update starts live... There is a new destrostaff asylum weapon, what grant all 3 statuseffects at 1 target every 4 sec. So you are possible to hold the statuseffects up in 95+% of time at 1 target. With testest, no statuseffect work against shields.. this is ***. There is no reason for that!

Right, but you're screaming against ZOS when this might just be a bug and the reason for it is that it's not meant to happening.

DeHei

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Was this an announced change or are you saying you've found a bug where it's not working?

The person to know would probably be Wrobel as he's the skills/combat guy at ZOS.

Some guys tested it, before the clockworkcity update starts live... There is a new destrostaff asylum weapon, what grant all 3 statuseffects at 1 target every 4 sec. So you are possible to hold the statuseffects up in 95+% of time at 1 target. With testest, no statuseffect work against shields.. this is ***. There is no reason for that!

Right, but you're screaming against ZOS when this might just be a bug and the reason for it is that it's not meant to happening.

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Turelus

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

Ahzek

Seems to me pretty similar to the old "if my body doesnt actually get hit by the axe, how would it start to bled"-logic that saved shielded target from getting bleed effects applied. Maybe this same logic is still at work with staus effects ? Like, "if your fire doesnt touch me, how come i start burning ?"

While this is obviously a very logical idea, the issue here is that its pretty darn bad balancing.

DeHei

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

@Derra tested it.

Solariken

Yeah it's hella stupid that status effects don't proc on shields, but to be fair it's been that way for as long as I remember, it's not new to CWC.

Derra

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

@Turelus tested normal enchantments with charged weapon on shielded player (shock and disease against a char that was not immune to any secondary effects). Both don´t procc statuseffects when the dmg is shielded.

Furthermore enchantments still don´t procc against blocking targets as stated here on august 16. by cinbri:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366713/enchants-bugged-vs-block
@DeHei - not everything favors mages

Turelus

Thanks Dera.

This is a bug though and not an intended change as far as you can tell?

Derra

Turelus wrote: »

Thanks Dera.

This is a bug though and not an intended change as far as you can tell?

Well tbh - i have no idea if statuseffects are supposed to procc on shields or not.
Imo from a consistency pov it makes no sense for the mechanic to not work on shields - as basically all other procc mechanics do work on shields (and the one that on top of my head does not - pirate skeleton - specifically mentions it).

Enchants not proccing against block is an aknowledged bug according to Gina - but has not been adressed so far. Since we all know how things can end up (willows path *cough*) i thought it might be clever to poke just a little bit as it´s pretty gamebreaking on the functionality of (oblivion) enchants in pvp (they were supposed to be a block counter).

Izaki

Oh wow, some Sorc conspiracy threads now? This is getting real stupid. Its just a bug. Status effects can be applied to shielded targets on live.

Derra

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oh wow, some Sorc conspiracy threads now? This is getting real stupid. Its just a bug. Status effects can be applied to shielded targets on live.

Are you 100% sure they can be on console? I tested briefly on live aswell yesterday and coult not apply them to shielded targets.

DeHei

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

@Turelus tested normal enchantments with charged weapon on shielded player (shock and disease against a char that was not immune to any secondary effects). Both don´t procc statuseffects when the dmg is shielded.

Furthermore enchantments still don´t procc against blocking targets as stated here on august 16. by cinbri:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366713/enchants-bugged-vs-block
@DeHei - not everything favors mages

But you know what i mean... When there should just stay permablocker or shieldstacker in PvP, so i want a fair balance to all classes and not the crap like it actually looks like.. We have only few classes, who have easier access to it. I dont want to switch my mainclass to be a part of superior side of game. All classes should have same chances, what mean balance!

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oh wow, some Sorc conspiracy threads now? This is getting real stupid. Its just a bug. Status effects can be applied to shielded targets on live.

If there would be a fair balance, most guys wouldnt scream for it. There are really much guys, who think like me. There are few guys, who play all classes and say, that magicka sorcs are to strong in relation to all other classes. This is really frustrating.

Turelus

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

Turelus tested normal enchantments with charged weapon on shielded player (shock and disease against a char that was not immune to any secondary effects). Both don´t procc statuseffects when the dmg is shielded.

Furthermore enchantments still don´t procc against blocking targets as stated here on august 16. by cinbri:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366713/enchants-bugged-vs-block
DeHei - not everything favors mages

But you know what i mean... When there should just stay permablocker or shieldstacker in PvP, so i want a fair balance to all classes and not the crap like it actually looks like.. We have only few classes, who have easier access to it. I dont want to switch my mainclass to be a part of superior side of game. All classes should have same chances, what mean balance!

Balance doesn't mean everything being identical or having exactly the same chances in all things.

paulsimonps

Just want to jump in and add that resistance into the specific elements via either Racial Passives or Jewelry glyphs makes you immune to the secondary effect, damage shields will to.

The damage shield thing I remember seeing a post about it from much earlier in the year and tested it, no words from the devs I do think its intended, however the blocking enchantment thing is indeed a bug.

So an example, a Dunmer with a Shock resistance enchantment will be immune to both burning and concussed and so if someone uses the asylum destruction staff on them then only the chilled effect will actually happen.

DeHei

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

I think this is calculated... it really looks like. We fight over months to nerf sorcs in some way and after finally sorcs got a slightly nerf.
This happen together with next status effect "buff" from asylum weapons. Looks again really strange for me and the chance for a surprising bug in ecatly this way is really low..

Did you test if the effects go through without an asylum weapon, was the target resistant to any forms of elemental damage (and thus immune to the status effects), which shields was it tested on etc.

Give some information as right now you've (or rather the people you spoke to) saw something and now everyone has jumped to this being an intended change which is shady and to buff sorcs.

Turelus tested normal enchantments with charged weapon on shielded player (shock and disease against a char that was not immune to any secondary effects). Both don´t procc statuseffects when the dmg is shielded.

Furthermore enchantments still don´t procc against blocking targets as stated here on august 16. by cinbri:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366713/enchants-bugged-vs-block
DeHei - not everything favors mages

But you know what i mean... When there should just stay permablocker or shieldstacker in PvP, so i want a fair balance to all classes and not the crap like it actually looks like.. We have only few classes, who have easier access to it. I dont want to switch my mainclass to be a part of superior side of game. All classes should have same chances, what mean balance!

Balance doesn't mean everything being identical or having exactly the same chances in all things.

But it can mean, that everything is possible with similar result on a different way. For example the DPS what is possible with different classes. It dont looks fair, when 1 class just can hit 30k DPS and another deal over 40k...

casparian

paulsimonps wrote: »

Just want to jump in and add that resistance into the specific elements via either Racial Passives or Jewelry glyphs makes you immune to the secondary effect, damage shields will to.

The damage shield thing I remember seeing a post about it from much earlier in the year and tested it, no words from the devs I do think its intended, however the blocking enchantment thing is indeed a bug.

So an example, a Dunmer with a Shock resistance enchantment will be immune to both burning and concussed and so if someone uses the asylum destruction staff on them then only the chilled effect will actually happen.

Wait -- you mean I can become immune to the Major Defile from Disease glyphs by slotting a disease resistance glyph or being an Argonian?

paulsimonps

casparian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Just want to jump in and add that resistance into the specific elements via either Racial Passives or Jewelry glyphs makes you immune to the secondary effect, damage shields will to.

The damage shield thing I remember seeing a post about it from much earlier in the year and tested it, no words from the devs I do think its intended, however the blocking enchantment thing is indeed a bug.

So an example, a Dunmer with a Shock resistance enchantment will be immune to both burning and concussed and so if someone uses the asylum destruction staff on them then only the chilled effect will actually happen.

Wait -- you mean I can become immune to the Major Defile from Disease glyphs by slotting a disease resistance glyph or being an Argonian?

or a bosmer, yup, and the 100% chance of Poison on using a Leathal Arrow is turned down to 0% as well for example. You are completely immune to the secondary effects. Of course this does not make you immune to the other sources of the debuffs from Shock, Disease and Frost.

Solariken

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oh wow, some Sorc conspiracy threads now? This is getting real stupid. Its just a bug. Status effects can be applied to shielded targets on live.

Uh, no they can't.

Solariken

paulsimonps wrote: »

Just want to jump in and add that resistance into the specific elements via either Racial Passives or Jewelry glyphs makes you immune to the secondary effect, damage shields will to.

The damage shield thing I remember seeing a post about it from much earlier in the year and tested it, no words from the devs I do think its intended, however the blocking enchantment thing is indeed a bug.

So an example, a Dunmer with a Shock resistance enchantment will be immune to both burning and concussed and so if someone uses the asylum destruction staff on them then only the chilled effect will actually happen.

Whaaaat!? I had no idea, going to test this asap.

Joy_Division

If I had to bet, this is an old ugly mechanic resurfacing.

When the game launched, shields did proctect against this stuff and even against secondary effects of skills (example, a shielded target would not be knocked back by flame reach). Shields also didn't proc Monster sets, it was like not getting hit at all.

This was all fixed ... and now all of sudden it's back just at the same time as we figured out being a Bosmer or Argonia makes you 100% resistance to disease related status effects (am I as a Nord resistant to frost related status effects? I dunno, but even if I am, hardly anyone uses frost, yeah the crappy race continues).

This should be acknowledged as a bug by ZoS and fixed before going Live.

paulsimonps

Joy_Division wrote: »

If I had to bet, this is an old ugly mechanic resurfacing.

When the game launched, shields did proctect against this stuff and even against secondary effects of skills (example, a shielded target would not be knocked back by flame reach). Shields also didn't proc Monster sets, it was like not getting hit at all.

This was all fixed ... and now all of sudden it's back just at the same time as we figured out being a Bosmer or Argonia makes you 100% resistance to disease related status effects (am I as a Nord resistant to frost related status effects? I dunno, but even if I am, hardly anyone uses frost, yeah the crappy race continues).

This should be acknowledged as a bug by ZoS and fixed before going Live.

yea Nords are immune to Chilled.

Koolio

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@Wrobel

Masel

This has always been the case, no point in changing that now. This is also a hardcounter to the new "OP" "Sorcgodmode" Asylum Staff.

You NEVER could apply status effects on shielded targets, not even on PvE.

Lexxypwns

Joy_Division wrote: »

If I had to bet, this is an old ugly mechanic resurfacing.

When the game launched, shields did proctect against this stuff and even against secondary effects of skills (example, a shielded target would not be knocked back by flame reach). Shields also didn't proc Monster sets, it was like not getting hit at all.

This was all fixed ... and now all of sudden it's back just at the same time as we figured out being a Bosmer or Argonia makes you 100% resistance to disease related status effects (am I as a Nord resistant to frost related status effects? I dunno, but even if I am, hardly anyone uses frost, yeah the crappy race continues).

This should be acknowledged as a bug by ZoS and fixed before going Live.

That's exactly what it is. Somehow their spaghetti code brought back the old shield mechanics

DeHei

Masel92 wrote: »

This has always been the case, no point in changing that now. This is also a hardcounter to the new "OP" "Sorcgodmode" Asylum Staff.

You NEVER could apply status effects on shielded targets, not even on PvE.

There is simply no reason for that. Why does shieldstacking protect for very strong status effects. Sorcs will for sure have access to the best shields again and can use this new weapon with the spammable skill against all other classes without good shields and hold status effects on them nearly 100% of time. If you think, that isnt a kind of wrong balancing, then we play different games...

Waffennacht

I can't wait to use it on my warden

DeHei

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can't wait to use it on my warden

For Warden this buff is PvE is really needful, but for PvP to strong too...

ak_pvp

Oh, [snip]

Its probably a bug, the other purposeful buffs are problems, if we see this on natch potes, then riot.
[edited for profanity bypass]