Should Miat's (attack alert) be allowed?

ShadowMole25

No

Juhasow wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

Like other said, the functionality provided for such add-on is considered cheating. Maybe I am part of the 0.00000001% who do not use it because of that reason. Too sad ZOS have allowed it...
.

There is lack of logic here. If developers allowed it then it cannot be considered cheating because it's developer who decides what is cheating and what isnt.

Also if we talk about functionality. Miat add-on gives You graphic information that some negative thing will hit You so at the end You dont have to look around so much to see it. Isnt that almost the same as buff tracker which graphicly informs You that some negative effects was applied on You or that you applied that on enemie (also with timer and debuffs name) , so You dont have to look around that much to see buffs/debuffs animation on You on Your enemies ?
If Miat is considered cheating then buff tracking is considered cheating also despite the fact developers allowing it.

I don't like or use Buff Tracking either. I only use Kill Counter to see my KDR and FTC to redo my health, mag, and stam bars so I can see percentages and to see my DPS/HPS in a small little box in the top left corner.

OutLaw_Nynx

Yes

Hmm meant to vote "other"


If they do that then I think they should also ban any add on for pve that tells you to block, prepare for an attack etc.

Dymence

No

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Hmm meant to vote "other"


If they do that then I think they should also ban any add on for pve that tells you to block, prepare for an attack etc.

You mean alerts for static mechanics that always happen at the same time? Because that's totally the same thing as fighting a player right?

ShadowMole25

No

Dymence wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Hmm meant to vote "other"


If they do that then I think they should also ban any add on for pve that tells you to block, prepare for an attack etc.

You mean alerts for static mechanics that always happen at the same time? Because that's totally the same thing as fighting a player right?

If they always happen at the same time, then why not just memorize it?

Jade1986

No

Hempyre wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

This Poll is inaccurate.

Miat's add-on on does not provide information on attacks from stealth, it does not provide any information that is not readily available from Zos's api.

Furthermore, there are other add-ons, such as Combat Cloud, that provide exactly the same kind of information as Miat's.

Zos changed the api as a result of these addons being able to detect and notify the player of incoming stealth attacks and players in stealth near you.

I would wager there were more than this one addon in use prior to the changes to the api. Miat releasing his addon publicly is the only reason Zos made these changes.

You all should be saying thanks for driving the changes to the api, (that Zos would never have done without exposing the flaw) rather than propagating incorrect information.

If you're going to stand on a soapbox and spew rhetoric, at least make sure your information is accurate.

So with this logic we should be thanking every possible criminal for not being a criminal? Of course this was very valuable for zos, but in other words it would sound like:
"everyone steals 100 gold per day. Miat found out about it and reduced it to 20 gold per day, so now it's OK, because before it used to be worst and few people knew."

Dumbest shi+ I've read today...

There is no criminality in this instance. However, yes, you should thank "potential" criminals for choosing not to be criminals. I mean, that deserves a fist bump at least I would think...
Still not relevant to the topic, as there is no parallel in how the addon functions and your reference... But aren't we all "potential" criminals choosing not to be criminals? (Too existential?)

Um... No one's stealing anything. Where do you get these references?

Miat released an addon that used the existing Zos api (as every addon does/did) keep in mind, there were likely other addons doing the same thing, but not released to the public. By releasing his addon publicly, Miat forced Zos to make changes that benefited all of the PvP community, rather than just those exploiting the api for themselves (at your expense)

Now, Miat's addon does -literally- none of the things that recent post are suggesting, or anything that would be considered cheating as it uses Zos's api.

It does not inform of potential attacks from stealth. It does not inform of stealthed players in the area. Nor do any other private, or otherwise, addons as the api has been changed to ensure that type of information is no longer useable in that fashion.

Still with me?

There are many addons that provide combat cue's. Including the stock UI. As this is all that Miat's addon does (essentially) I fail to see what the fuss is all about...

What seems to happen in posts like this, is that someone will post incorrect information, often based on utter nonsense, or some other post that person may have read, (also often based on utter nonsense.) Then the second person (such as yourself) will continue to "parrot" that information down the line without actually looking into the accuracy of the information that they relay. This is when it becomes rhetoric, rather than factual information.

And then we have threads such as this...

So does it or does it not let you know when to dodge exactly and does it or does it not let you know when someone is doing a charge up attack from stealth. If the answer to either of those is yes, then it shouldn't be allowed, because ZoS stated during beta times that they didnt want add ons like this in the game.

The addon informs you of an incoming attack. (Among other benign and convenient tid bits, such as when you are nearing the max distance from a camp, etc..) It does not suggest a course of action. There are several addons that provide the same information, and some do suggest a course of action. This includes the stock UI. "Combat Cue's" (hint, hint) no one's complaining about the others...

It does not relay information on attacks from stealth...

This information is easily accessible for anyone that actually wants to know. Just try it, or search the addon. Just stop posting uneducated nonsense...

You, of course can choose to agree with how this (and many other) addons function, or not. But at the end of the day, Zos has looked at the functionality and they are ok with it.

The stock UI does not tell me when a snipe is incoming. Considering I dont use any UI addons except for the quickbars, I would know. I mean honestly, what an age we live in when people are too lazy to counter an attack in a video game accordingly. I have already provided, several times, a quote from beta times where they stated they would not allow such add ons, and here we are. Yet , I dont see anyone providing me a link or quote that shows " yeah this is ok, we dont mind negating an entire class " .

Juhasow

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

Like other said, the functionality provided for such add-on is considered cheating. Maybe I am part of the 0.00000001% who do not use it because of that reason. Too sad ZOS have allowed it...
.

There is lack of logic here. If developers allowed it then it cannot be considered cheating because it's developer who decides what is cheating and what isnt.

Also if we talk about functionality. Miat add-on gives You graphic information that some negative thing will hit You so at the end You dont have to look around so much to see it. Isnt that almost the same as buff tracker which graphicly informs You that some negative effects was applied on You or that you applied that on enemie (also with timer and debuffs name) , so You dont have to look around that much to see buffs/debuffs animation on You on Your enemies ?
If Miat is considered cheating then buff tracking is considered cheating also despite the fact developers allowing it.

I don't like or use Buff Tracking either. I only use Kill Counter to see my KDR and FTC to redo my health, mag, and stam bars so I can see percentages and to see my DPS/HPS in a small little box in the top left corner.

Oh god that's cheating. Normally You would have to note all that informations on paper and watch resource bars normally

Jade1986

No

Juhasow wrote: »

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

Like other said, the functionality provided for such add-on is considered cheating. Maybe I am part of the 0.00000001% who do not use it because of that reason. Too sad ZOS have allowed it...
.

There is lack of logic here. If developers allowed it then it cannot be considered cheating because it's developer who decides what is cheating and what isnt.

Also if we talk about functionality. Miat add-on gives You graphic information that some negative thing will hit You so at the end You dont have to look around so much to see it. Isnt that almost the same as buff tracker which graphicly informs You that some negative effects was applied on You or that you applied that on enemie (also with timer and debuffs name) , so You dont have to look around that much to see buffs/debuffs animation on You on Your enemies ?
If Miat is considered cheating then buff tracking is considered cheating also despite the fact developers allowing it.

I don't like or use Buff Tracking either. I only use Kill Counter to see my KDR and FTC to redo my health, mag, and stam bars so I can see percentages and to see my DPS/HPS in a small little box in the top left corner.

Oh god that's cheating. Normally You would have to note all that informations on paper and watch resource bars normally

Edit, because I dont even know....

Bam_Bam

Yes

I put yes but I meant to put other. I use it for the way its shows distances to Ayleid wells, keeps and outposts and especially battles. In that respect its a fantastic add on. A lot of the more dubious parts of the addon were removed and it isn't all that gamechanging. I still get slapped all over the place ON A REGS. lol.

Bam_Bam

Yes

Hempyre wrote: »

This Poll is inaccurate.

Miat's add-on on does not provide information on attacks from stealth, it does not provide any information that is not readily available from Zos's api.

Furthermore, there are other add-ons, such as Combat Cloud, that provide exactly the same kind of information as Miat's.

Zos changed the api as a result of these addons being able to detect and notify the player of incoming stealth attacks and players in stealth near you.

I would wager there were more than this one addon in use prior to the changes to the api. Miat releasing his addon publicly is the only reason Zos made these changes.

You all should be saying thanks for driving the changes to the api, (that Zos would never have done without exposing the flaw) rather than propagating incorrect information.

If you're going to stand on a soapbox and spew rhetoric, at least make sure your information is accurate.

Well said.

out51d3r

Should the developer of this mod or anybody using it face any sort of consequences? Nope.

Should this mod be "banned"? Nope.

Should ZOS have allowed this functionality to exist? Nope.

Should ZOS modify the system so this no longer works? Yep.

I thought they already fixed the stealth part of the mod months ago. Did they accidentally roll back that code, or did the dev author just find another way to do it?

Lucky28

No

No, i think that add on is just another example of less skill in the game. which is why i've never used it and never will.

DHale

Yes

You may think that you are helping people by white knighting miats add on. You are not helping anyone at all, see Miat was being honest and put his add on out for every one. He got blasted and now he and a few other people put out add ons but not for everyone. Players made this go underground and not be out in the open. If you believe that they just stopped making add ons then you are just as smart as we thought.

AhPook_Is_Here

Yes

I think the point is those API calls shouldn't be available to clients. There is no reason players need that information. Having said that, one of the main reasons I don't really PVP in this game anymore is because there is no common playing-field. Maybe you are the guy who is playing with a default UI, or maybe you are the guy who is playing with half a dozen private add-ons, a non-disclosed memory editor, and several mundus buffs beyond what you should have. ZoS' approach to cheating recently, instead of trying to fix it, is simply to hide players' ability to detect it. That just creates further paranoia and it also makes it hard to hold any good player in high regards because most players' impulse will be to just assume they cheat.

You can't really have a competitive game when everyone plays on their own private playing-field with their own sets of rules and their own sets of information, it's as bad as BF1 was when everyone was running hit-box HUDs.

Derra

Other (explain)

The game should work properly (audiocues) so something like miats has no place to exist.

HowlKimchi

It shouldnt be allowed for the sole reason that I get accused of using this add-on (even though i dont install combat add-ons) when I kill a fail ganker.

It *** annoys me that they think they lost because I was cheating when in fact, they just suck. xD

Dojohoda

It's all on ZOS and the poor decisions they make.

enzoisadog

Maybe

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Miat! The simple fact that he is told when to dodge a range attack is bull[snip]. It is essentially taking range attacks away from someone's toolkit when fighting him.

I know ZOS is aware of it for some time now. I won't comment on what ZOS should or shouldn't do because I am not privy to any internal discussions.

But you and I will settle the score one day Miat, nightbalde to nightblade. And then I am coming for your Uber driver and wrecking blow spammer personal assistant, Enzo and Executi Boy respectively.

LOL

miat is my bae, sorry.

Dymence

No

ShadowMole25 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Hmm meant to vote "other"


If they do that then I think they should also ban any add on for pve that tells you to block, prepare for an attack etc.

You mean alerts for static mechanics that always happen at the same time? Because that's totally the same thing as fighting a player right?

If they always happen at the same time, then why not just memorize it?

That's what I do. I merely wanted to point out that the comparison between PVE and PVP is ridiculous on this matter.

Bombashaman

Yes

Grabmoore wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.

Wrong.

They did not remove the used API, since it would prevent innoumerous other Addons from functioning. Damage or bufftime addons wouldn't work anymore. Since majority of people use those tools in PvE, they didn't change it.

Didn't they state in the rules you have to accept to play that cheating is an offense which would lead to some kind of punishment? If they consider Miat's a cheat, they should be disciplining players left and right. They don't. So they don't consider it as cheating.

You said miat is no Cheating cause ZOS didn't limit the API accordingly. I responded stating that they didn't change it for a different reason. So it would be unfair to ban all miats users for an issue that they are unable to fix. Also, ZOS and banning exploiters??? Funny you!

Actually...what? I'm saying ZOS make player to promise they don't cheat, or they will get some punishment. As using Miat's addon does not seem to get any punishment, it seems they don't consider it as a cheat. Or did I understand something wrong? English isn't my first or second language, I may have got it wrong. I have to presume if they see something as a cheat, they warn beforehand cheaters will get punished, they will punish them. Even in the case they may have too open API. They could inform Miat's addon is cheating. Of course better way would be to modify API and kill some "harmless" addons on the way.

What they have done now? API allows Miat's addon. It may be because their incompetence of fixing or whatever. They also haven't made any statements that using it is a cheat. And I'm quite sure they know the existence of it. So by these two facts (Miat's addon is allowed and they haven't made any statement it is a cheat), I see no reason to presume they think it IS a cheat.

Remember, there have been many many cases where players have used existing mechanics to do dubious stuff, and sometimes ZOS has declared them as cheaters. So they do sometimes mark something as a cheat. Miat's addon isn't one of them. Yet.

And no, I'm not using it. I'm just debating over the question should it be allowed. And I say yes, because it is not cheating, you are not breaking the Code of Conduct or whatever.

Gilvoth

No

we play pvp and see it happen along with other cheats every day. all we can do is expose it on the forums and try to reach others with the information and maybe someday there will be developer fixes.
as for the comments trying to defend it, and claim is no proof, and claim is no cheat happening in not only this thread but many other threads, all i can say is i feel bad for the Golden tongue responses, and i hope those people don't lie with this much strength to themselves.

CatchMeTrolling

No

That add on is a joke lol another thing that play's a role in the hand holding that goes on in this game

IllusioN712

No

out51d3r wrote: »

I thought they already fixed the stealth part of the mod months ago. Did they accidentally roll back that code, or did the dev author just find another way to do it?

Seems like they just found another way, saw enough people who random dismounted and blocked/dodge roled when they got sniped from stealth for example + i ask someone who use it (sadly...) and he agreed, that feature still exists.

Emmagoldman

No

I hate it and think it needs to go. However, as its allowed I know people will use it to be competitive and cant really fault people for its use. Yet eso dev team get to set the rules. I cant see why they would allow this feature myself

Betsararie

I think the game would be a lot better off without a lot of the features of Miat's, but because it is allowed it is fair game to use it. I won't get mad at anyone for using Miat's because it is something that is available to everyone.

Morgul667

No

Hell no

Dorrino

TheCaptainJosh wrote: »

Another Miat thread

Yep:)

It feels like it's a seasonal event. Roughly each 3-4 months.

*sits comfortably*

Jade1986

No

Dorrino wrote: »

TheCaptainJosh wrote: »

Another Miat thread

Yep:)

It feels like it's a seasonal event. Roughly each 3-4 months.

*sits comfortably*

Well considering how the overwhelming majority here want it taken down, and that in zone chat as well it is pretty much hated across the board, it should be taken down, and should have attention drawn to it.

Hurika

No

Not sure why people say it doesn't work on stealth attacks. What was changed (I believe) was that it won't show stealthed attacks unless you are the target. I also think there's a difference between heavy attacks and abilities from stealth - ie you can start a heavy attack without targetting a player which is when the api fires the on-event. Things like crystal frags and snipe require a target that will get an API event fired to them at the beginning of the ability.

Balsagna

No

DHale wrote: »

You may think that you are helping people by white knighting miats add on. You are not helping anyone at all, see Miat was being honest and put his add on out for every one. He got blasted and now he and a few other people put out add ons but not for everyone. Players made this go underground and not be out in the open. If you believe that they just stopped making add ons then you are just as smart as we thought.

So only a limited and select people have access to game playing addons? That sounds a lot better than everyone having access to them.

Nemeliom

No

Balsagna wrote: »

So only a limited and select people have access to game playing addons? That sounds a lot better than everyone having access to them.

I believe this feature is so big, that either all players have access to it, or no one should. It's a real disadvantage for new players who are just learning and have no idea which are the best addons, to go play pvp without it. Same for normal/regular players who are unaware of it's existance.