Define Skill

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generalmyrick
generalmyrick
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I thought this would be a good topic because there is always the person that says that, "x and y do not take skill...but z is skill."
BUT then someone says, "z takes no skill. Actually a, b, and c take skill."


Caution = try not to attack me for asking a question and not others because they think something is skill that you don't. Maybe someone says that something is skillless, that's ok! Only opinions! :-)

So somethings that I am curious about if it matters;
what race?
what class?
are there abilities that take skill?
etc..?

WHAT MAKES A PLAYERED SKILL V. UNSKILLED?
Edited by generalmyrick on August 28, 2017 11:15PM
"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • PlagueSD
    PlagueSD
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    A skilled player doesn't stand in red, doesn't pull (if not the tank), and if they get agro, runs back to the tank.
    If they are the tank, they don't pull until everyone's ready. Maintains agro on boss and keep him pointed AWAY from the group, and pull any agro lost from other players.

    An unskilled player does none of this. Skill vs. unskilled has NOTHING to do with class, abilities, or race.

    Edited by PlagueSD on August 28, 2017 11:23PM
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    To me skill is being able to use just about any build and still be successful. Some people are honestly carried by their builds, though. Obviously this isn't an absolute, just in some cases.

    Some classes are considered "noob friendly" but I really can't say that's a skill issue, as regardless of how much it's a "noob friendly" class, you will still see a huge difference between a skilled and unskilled player.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    To me skill is being able to use just about any build and still be successful. Some people are honestly carried by their builds, though. Obviously this isn't an absolute, just in some cases.

    Some classes are considered "noob friendly" but I really can't say that's a skill issue, as regardless of how much it's a "noob friendly" class, you will still see a huge difference between a skilled and unskilled player.

    I like this! However, what causes, "difference."

    what does the skilled player do that creates separation?
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • Jhalin
    Jhalin
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    Skilled players manage resources decently and don't need babysitting from a healer to not die
  • Runefang
    Runefang
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    It's an MMO, the skill ceiling is not that high. So it's a moot point.
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
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    Perma blocking and purposefully not fighting like a little baby does not require skill

    Beating players in 1v1 or 1vX does require skill.

    That's a start. ;)
  • Moltyr
    Moltyr
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    I think skill can come in many forms. For instance, a specific player may not be that great at PvP or even PvE solo (like vMA). However, that same player could also be a vital part of a core raid team for places like vMoL and vHoF especially. Certain things in this game take a certain skill set. Not to mention there are players in ESO would really don't PvP OR PvE at all. Some specifically spend their time farming for crazy expensive items to go into their house. You may say "Molt, that's stupid who would want to do that?" Until you learned that those people earn several MILLION gold per week. Well, at least the friends I know that do it. Me personally, I think I'm pretty well rounded. If anything I'm probably better in PvE currently. There are some people who just don't PvE either. Yet they are EXCELLENT PvPers! I think each player should do what they enjoy most first, then worry about other parts of the game. In the end, skill is really just the amount of practice we put into something.
  • Alpheu5
    Alpheu5
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    To me,
    Blanco wrote: »
    Perma blocking and purposefully not fighting like a little baby does not require skill

    Beating players in 1v1 or 1vX does require skill.

    That's a start. ;)

    What if you win a 1v1 by permablocking and purposefully not fighting like a little baby so the other person forfeits?
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
  • PlagueSD
    PlagueSD
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    Blanco wrote: »
    Perma blocking and purposefully not fighting like a little baby does not require skill

    Beating players in 1v1 or 1vX does require skill.

    That's a start. ;)


    Tanks that kite bosses because they're scared to be hit. You're the TANK. It's your job to block with your face. STAND STILL so us DPS can do our job...
  • Moltyr
    Moltyr
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    PlagueSD wrote: »


    Tanks that kite bosses because they're scared to be hit. You're the TANK. It's your job to block with your face. STAND STILL so us DPS can do our job...

    Every time I see a "tank" in PvE running around like a little girl, I die a little inside. It's kind of common sense I would assume? I mean a lot of damage is being applied just from AoE abilities. Moving the target out of those, as these kind of tanks do....pretty much wastes everyone's time lol.
  • hamgatan
    hamgatan
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    PlagueSD wrote: »


    Tanks that kite bosses because they're scared to be hit. You're the TANK. It's your job to block with your face. STAND STILL so us DPS can do our job...

    There are dozens of examples in game where a tank can't stand still because DPS's are so focused on their rotations that they forget simple things like.. oh I dunno, not standing in red circles?

    Example 1
    Grobull - I kite him in a circle around away from the middle while the DPS burns the adds. If I stand in one spot, some pugs goanna get a hurt real bad from that AoE.

    Example 2
    Kra'agh - I've pugged with a ton of DPS's who use so much of their stamina in their rotations that they don't have enough left to dodge away from that one shot AoE. So I keep him at range. Esp from healer..

    Example 3
    Lord Warden - you cannot stand still in this fight (well not for long). Too many mechanics going on and you don't want to inadvertently end up in a light pool unless necessary.

    Example 4
    Planar Inhibitor - you cannot stand still in this fight. Blue flame = death. Run!

    Example 5
    Mantikora - Stand still. Good idea. Oh... but you see that black pool appearing below your feet?

    I could keep going but there's no point..

    You clearly have never tanked if you think that all there is to a tanks mechanics is stand still and hold block..
    Edited by hamgatan on August 29, 2017 12:21AM
    PC / NA - 1800 CP
    Spoiler

    PvE Tanks
    L50 Imperial DK (US/DC) "Rampant Rabbit"
    L50 Nord Necro (US/DC) "Skeletons In The Closet"
    L50 Nord Arcanist (US/EP) "Now Thats a Huge Witch"

    PvE Healers
    L50 Argonian MagPlar (US/EP) "Smothers-With-Pillows"
    L50 Breton MagWarden (US/EP) "Drunk-The-Koolaid"
    L50 Altmer MagBlade (US/AD) "Never Goanna Heal You Up"

    PvE DPS
    L50 PvE DPS Khajit MagDK (US/EP) "Snowflake Crusher"
    L50 Dunmer Stam Arcanist PvE DPS (US/EP) "Sends-The-Trout"
    L50 Altmer MagSorc PvE DPS (US/DC) "Acirrum" - The vMA/vvH Potatoaky Sorc
    L50 Breton StamCro PvE DPS (US/DC) "Ivanna Fakakakis"
    L50 PvE DPS Argonian StamPlar (US/EP) "The Rusty Argonian Spade"
    L50 PvE DPS Khajit StamPlar (US/EP) "Critteh Kitteh"
    L50 Dunmer MagDK PvE DPS (US/DC) "Deep Fried Bin Chicken"

    Bank Skanks
    L20 Redguard StamBlade PvP Tank (US/AD) "Sneak Dogg"
    L40 Orc StamDen PvE DPS (US/EP) "Fugly Betty"

    PvP DPS
    L50 Orc StamSorc PvE DPS (US/AD) "Fraggle Proc"


    Xbox One / NA - 360 CP
    Spoiler
    L50 Altmer MagBlade (US/AD) "Cork Soaking"
    L10 Argonian Templar (US/EP) "Makes-Me-Moist"
    L10 Argonian MagDK (US/EP) "<Forced-Name-Change>"
    L27 Altmer MagSorc (US/EP) "Sorcie McSorcface"

    |GM - The Bin Chicken Alliance | Aussie Dragon Slayers | Aedra | The Skooma Emporium | The Bus | The Bounty Hunters Guild |
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Skill is systems knowledge with the capacity to operationalize that information.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    PlagueSD wrote: »
    A skilled player doesn't stand in red, doesn't pull (if not the tank), and if they get agro, runs back to the tank.
    If they are the tank, they don't pull until everyone's ready. Maintains agro on boss and keep him pointed AWAY from the group, and pull any agro lost from other players.

    An unskilled player does none of this. Skill vs. unskilled has NOTHING to do with class, abilities, or race.
    This is standard group behavior similar for all roles. I would add blocking for other than tank too but it depend on mechanic.
    Still you could be an good player as in group mechanic and also have high dps but still mess up as you don't know mechanic.
    This was very visible in the new dungeons however it also put new but good players on the same level.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    To me skill is being able to use just about any build and still be successful. Some people are honestly carried by their builds, though. Obviously this isn't an absolute, just in some cases.

    Some classes are considered "noob friendly" but I really can't say that's a skill issue, as regardless of how much it's a "noob friendly" class, you will still see a huge difference between a skilled and unskilled player.
    Stamblade is generally considered an hard class to play because of the complex rotation.
    I say templars has good surviablity and its also easy to do adequate damage. They also make the easiest to play healers.
    It also depend on gear, if your dps suck ducks proc gear gives an flat damage.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • NeillMcAttack
    NeillMcAttack
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    Quick reaction!! And understanding!
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
    Spoiler
    Tiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP Main
    Legion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE Main
    Sephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DC
    The Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc AD
    Lone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD
    @ McAttack in game
    Played since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    Skill is being able to perform an action as precisely as you intended.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Quick reaction!! And understanding!

    Understanding is way more important. Reaction time is relevant, but for most players, it's not really a significant factor. Basically, if you can play the game at a basic level, you should have the reaction time for late game content. The deciding factor is, "do you understand what's going on around you?"
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    My opinion of skill is slightly different.

    To me it is not using things without proper, non situational counters. i.e. soul assault = skill-less. Zerging, skill-less
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Malic
    Malic
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    Skill was running blazing shield builds in PVP before nerfs.

    That was rough babe, not gonna lie.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    This'll be a civilized conversation.

    I estimate it'll take three pages max before this becomes a "nerf sorc" thread.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    Thogard wrote: »
    This'll be a civilized conversation.

    I estimate it'll take three pages max before this becomes a "nerf sorc" thread.

    "I can beat that. Nerf @Thogard's sorc!"

    :p
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    i just started playing sorc = its easy and fun! can't tell ya why though.
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • Dorrino
    Dorrino
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    Even though this thread will quickly become naming and shaming one, i'll chime in.

    The skill is what @starkerealm said: possessing knowledge about the system (on both macro and micro levels) and utilizing this knowledge to the highest advantage possible within given situations.

    In pvp specifically the skill is knowing what would be the best course of action in each situation and sufficient muscle memory to perform the said course of action.

    Some classes/specs have higher room for error, some have it severely limited, but in any case player's skill is to 'win' with whatever he chooses to play.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Using knowledge effectively basically.

    In pvp its understanding when to burst, line of sight, heal, defend etc...

    Understanding all class skills, how to counter, how to react.

    Understanding your own class, combo's etc...

    Some classes require more knowledge and are a lot harder to play effectively than others.

    Some skills are powerful but require knowledge, setting up, timing in order to be strong, some you press a button and basically melt anything. E.g. Soul assault, pigeons.


    For example magicka templar is a really easy class to play and its a class you can be very effective with without actually being good at the game.
    If your in a group you can literally just spam breath of life to be a very effective healer (smart heals...) They can do a lot of damage by casting a skill and other people actually doing to dmg to make it hit hard, backlash. They have a ranged execute that can't be rolled, hit hards and scales at 50%.

    Hence why most of cyrodill is magicka templars, a lot of the big groups have a lot fo magplars. You can literally no nothing about the game but all you need to do is spam breath, spam backlash and spam beam. You can't really do anything against then either.


    Where as if your on a mag nb open world, you can't heal as well as them, your burst requires you to set up a lot and time it usually with a cc because it easy to block and reflect. Your execute requires a lot lower hp and can be reflected. Your not as tanky and aren't as useful in groups. In order to be useful in groups you have to be good at the character, you need to weave skills, time burst, keep alive using fear, cripple, cloak and shields.


    Now don't get me wrong theres are really good magplars as well as terrible mag nb's.
    However if someone was new to this game and wasn't that good the difference is they can be very effective on a magplar and would be useless on a mag nb.

    Game gets more casual as less 'skillful' every patch. Why learn to burst or such when you can just run in a group and use skills like soul assault of pigeons to kill anything without counter.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    A skilled player is just.... experienced. Or capable of performing tasks well.

    If a player can complete Maesltrom Arena on Veteran difficulty, they are "skilled" at solo play. If someone puts out like 30K-40K DPS on a target skeleton, they are "skilled" at rotations and dealing damage. If you are in a trial guild that places high on the leaderboards, you can certainly be considered "skilled" at raids. Stuff like this.

    To me the term "skilled" translates to how well you perform a task, which is usually representative for a player's experience.
  • UncleRiot
    UncleRiot
    In my opinion:

    Skilled people do not complain first about others faults - they pick their own nose. They reflect.
    F.e.:
    I was member of many groups, where players pretended to be skilled/elite, like: I do 30k DPS ...
    after the fight it wasn't about 15k.

    or

    Tank: Heal???!!!???!!!! Noob-Healer!
    ... while pulling 1billion of mobs, he can't handle and then dies, while also standing in the soup.

    or

    DD: You all suck, this fight is so easy ... dd left, another "lowbe" joined and we instantly won the fight.


    No self reflection is the old/new pest for me. If a player flames another player (if "true" or not), they disqualify
    themselves as "skilled" for me.

    Most do not understand the difference between self-confidence and self-esteem.
    Skilled people give advices or just shut op, but do not complain and do not offend ... and so - they
    just play good and the group wins the fight - with ease.

    Just my two pence...
  • Tai-Chi
    Tai-Chi
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    In answer to the title statement, ie "Define Skill".

    Skill, is a noun meaning "the ability to so something well". It stems from an old Norse word meaning knowledge. The connotation of 'knowing' still permeates through the noun 'skill'.

    So, someone who has the ability to do a job well - no matter what methods they use - could be said to be skilled in that particular activity.

    Knowing when to use that particular method and when not to use it, takes them up to a higher level of skill because it utilises that undelying concept of 'knowledge'. That person is now becoming more 'skilled' in what they are doing.


    PC - EU (Main) & PC - NA
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    "I can beat that. Nerf @Thogard's sorc!"

    :p
    Leave my poor thogyaler alone, he's innocent! Lol
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    UncleRiot wrote: »
    In my opinion:

    Skilled people do not complain first about others faults - they pick their own nose. They reflect.
    F.e.:
    I was member of many groups, where players pretended to be skilled/elite, like: I do 30k DPS ...
    after the fight it wasn't about 15k.

    or

    Tank: Heal???!!!???!!!! Noob-Healer!
    ... while pulling 1billion of mobs, he can't handle and then dies, while also standing in the soup.

    or

    DD: You all suck, this fight is so easy ... dd left, another "lowbe" joined and we instantly won the fight.


    No self reflection is the old/new pest for me. If a player flames another player (if "true" or not), they disqualify
    themselves as "skilled" for me.

    Most do not understand the difference between self-confidence and self-esteem.
    Skilled people give advices or just shut op, but do not complain and do not offend ... and so - they
    just play good and the group wins the fight - with ease.

    Just my two pence...

    Hear, hear!
    Tai-Chi wrote: »
    In answer to the title statement, ie "Define Skill".

    Skill, is a noun meaning "the ability to so something well". It stems from an old Norse word meaning knowledge. The connotation of 'knowing' still permeates through the noun 'skill'.

    So, someone who has the ability to do a job well - no matter what methods they use - could be said to be skilled in that particular activity.

    This makes sense to me...
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
  • generalmyrick
    generalmyrick
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    Using knowledge effectively basically.

    In pvp its understanding when to burst, line of sight, heal, defend etc...

    Understanding all class skills, how to counter, how to react.

    Understanding your own class, combo's etc...

    Some classes require more knowledge and are a lot harder to play effectively than others.

    Some skills are powerful but require knowledge, setting up, timing in order to be strong, some you press a button and basically melt anything. E.g. Soul assault, pigeons.


    For example magicka templar is a really easy class to play and its a class you can be very effective with without actually being good at the game.
    If your in a group you can literally just spam breath of life to be a very effective healer (smart heals...) They can do a lot of damage by casting a skill and other people actually doing to dmg to make it hit hard, backlash. They have a ranged execute that can't be rolled, hit hards and scales at 50%.

    Hence why most of cyrodill is magicka templars, a lot of the big groups have a lot fo magplars. You can literally no nothing about the game but all you need to do is spam breath, spam backlash and spam beam. You can't really do anything against then either.


    Where as if your on a mag nb open world, you can't heal as well as them, your burst requires you to set up a lot and time it usually with a cc because it easy to block and reflect. Your execute requires a lot lower hp and can be reflected. Your not as tanky and aren't as useful in groups. In order to be useful in groups you have to be good at the character, you need to weave skills, time burst, keep alive using fear, cripple, cloak and shields.


    Now don't get me wrong theres are really good magplars as well as terrible mag nb's.
    However if someone was new to this game and wasn't that good the difference is they can be very effective on a magplar and would be useless on a mag nb.

    Game gets more casual as less 'skillful' every patch. Why learn to burst or such when you can just run in a group and use skills like soul assault of pigeons to kill anything without counter.

    I sense a bit of bias here?
    "The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

    Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
    Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"

    Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019

    Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.
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