RNG issues, with Kevduit as proof

NyassaV

Kevduit recently came out with a video. I know him to an extent and he is always very supportive of the game whenever he talks of it. Yet we still have issues like this. Personally I've gone through almost 600 keys with no medium divines Kena shoulder. This is an actual issue, not just for stuff like vMA, but for the bloody pledge boxes too. people want a token system, well we have one and it's called gold. If it is too much work, get rid of bind on pick up and let everything be sold in guild stores. If you really don't want that for some reason, then make a Token system. Suggestions Welcome

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

Here is the link to Kev's video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRRfwsUQXY

WaltherCarraway

Good, beside the subject.










I like Kevduit's everlasting hatred towards EP.

MLGProPlayer

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

Malic

If everyone gets what they want when they want it, what the hell else is going to be left to do?

Play chess?

If you cant handle RNG you wont last 2 min at chess....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzAvx9vQ_n4

WaltherCarraway

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

You don't want to see Maelstrom Greatsword tagged 2 million trust me.

Zvorgin

Bind on Equip everything would be amazing for the in game economy.

olsborg

No token system is the entire reason I dont ever do pve, at all. RNG system is a killer of the joy of playing

NyassaV

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

You don't want to see Maelstrom Greatsword tagged 2 million trust me.

I do actually. There are many people who do not have the skill to do vMA, I know some people who are full time merchants and their DPS remind me of throwing gold at the bad guy and hoping they die

MLGProPlayer

Hollery wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

You don't want to see Maelstrom Greatsword tagged 2 million trust me.

I do actually. There are many people who do not have the skill to do vMA, I know some people who are full time merchants and their DPS remind me of throwing gold at the bad guy and hoping they die

There are also people who have done vMA 1000 times and still don't have the weapon they need.

Nemesis7884

i think making a token system like gw2's - completing a dungeon gets you tokens which you can spend at a dealer for dungeon gear - would be the best compromise... not sure everything boe would be good - sure its convenient but most dungeons wouldn't be played anymore or find groups...

Of course the token system needs to be reasonable - something like 3 dungeon runs = a small piece and 5 dungeon runs = a large piece

ForsakenSin

Malic wrote: »

If everyone gets what they want when they want it, what the hell else is going to be left to do?

Play chess?

If you cant handle RNG you wont last 2 min at chess....

Im sorry but i have to strongly disagree with you on that one and this is why ..

So i need heavy devins shoulder piece .. ive been farming the damm keys for 5 months same chest no drops , VMSA takes me long time to finish the RNG is crap ..



Do you really think that if i got the shoulders i needed and weapon from VMSA i would stop playing ? hell no i would have more time to play with the guilds running vet trials play PVP , don't people understand in forcing doing the same thing without any result with RNG that is placed to work against you , so you keep on been a slave to the damm pledges will make people quit?

i mean come on be honest here which one would you choose ?

scenario 1 , play each day to get 4 keys open the same damm chest getting the same crap over and over and over and getting 2 .. now hear me our 2 of the set piece you need in wrong weight and wrong trait will make you go .. ohh boy i can't wait to try tomorrow to see if i will get what i need.

OR

scenario 1, trying to make new build you need 40 keys to buy shoulder piece, awesome you got 22 keys not far now, get the 40 keys buy the item and enjoy the game , again need to try new monster set , ok lets go farming for 40 keys.

same for VMSA make it 20 token you get to choose one weapon, will it stop people from playing it ? getting weapons they need hell no .. as many have more then 1 character and they are always trying new builds.

For example for me i would need to finish the VMSA 40 times for my sorc ( two staff 20 token each) , 80 times for my NB (dual weapons 4 of them 4x 20) 80 times for my Dk (dual weapons 4 of them 4x 20) , 40 times for my warden , 40 times for my temper ect .. so we are looking at over 200 times in finish it before i can say .. ok i think im good... and what will happen next? nerf which will make me go in again to finish it and get another new set so its never ending same thing with shoulder , after nerf ect and changes i would need to go in again to farm keys to replace the set so no im sorry there is always plenty left to do.

PS you do realize chess is not RNG right.... ? chess its strategy game against opponent where you need to think 4 moves ahead and intercept their moves, meaning you have control of the desired outcome , if you want to make a RNG comparisons it would be a dice game like yahtzee where you have no control of the outcome.

Slick_007

because you didnt get what you wanted first time, every time, the game needs to change.
its back to the me, me, me, now, now, now.

the system is fine. rng is random. sometimes it sux, sometimes it doesnt. its....random.

Synfaer

Slick_007 wrote: »

because you didnt get what you wanted first time, every time, the game needs to change.
its back to the me, me, me, now, now, now.

the system is fine. rng is random. sometimes it sux, sometimes it doesnt. its....random.

If it was truly random or even 'smart' & random most people would not have an issue.
Unfortunately, most of the loot tables are so *** up, throwing them into the RNG just makes the situation unbearable for many, its not about "me me me now now", its mostly about badly designed loot tables.

Coilbox

A token system to aliviate the RNG is a very good idea, at least you would know that after a few runs of vMA (for example) you could spend some tokens in the weapon you want if you ever got it in the final chest.
Also, being able to convert non desired weapons into tokens is great too.

In one hand you make a purpose to every prize, i mean, if you dont want the weapon you got in vMA final chest you can always trade it for tokens.. so it's not a total waste.

In the other hand, you still have to run and complete vMA... I think it's fair that if you want a vMA weapon or a vDSA weapon, you still have to be able to finish the instance at least. I wouldnt support making this kind of item BoE, people would never run vMA if they could just throw gold to a merchant. It's not about how useful the weapon is (which is not that big of a deal to be honest). But if you see someone carrying a vMA weapon, it means that person has the skill to finish it at least.

TL;DR: Absolutely yes to a token system... BoE for instance items (vMA, vDSA, dungeons, etc) definitely NO.


Cheers!

Demolitionary

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i think making a token system like gw2's - completing a dungeon gets you tokens which you can spend at a dealer for dungeon gear - would be the best compromise... not sure everything boe would be good - sure its convenient but most dungeons wouldn't be played anymore or find groups...

Of course the token system needs to be reasonable - something like 3 dungeon runs = a small piece and 5 dungeon runs = a large piece

This isn't a rant at you of any kind, just my 2 cents on this RnG, your quote made a good example.

There is a reason GW2 is now F2P and P2W. First it was a failed attempt at a second guild wars by limiting skills to weapons that cannot be changed, I have not played in a while but that is why I quit the game. Being an ex GW1 player GW2 was fail in comparison. Both pretty much different games, it should have been named different but, the milk the cow with ANet is real.
That token system made that part of the game bland as hell. Look at those end game flashy swords for example that people ground for, that no life grind, for them to be able to sell it, oh and that pay to win element in that game to be able to buy gold with rl money, that killed the game too as you could just buy everything if you had that kind of money, you could buy end game gear with real money in that game, boring. uninstall.


RnG keeps MMO's alive as people grind for what they really want, it keeps people playing, without that grind it would remove part of what MMO's are about unfortunately. That grind and RnG is addictive, as RnG is gambling in it's own sense.
Keeping monster sets, vMA weapons bind on pickup keeps them exclusive, well kind of.
I don't have any monster sets yet, well have shoulders, only a handful. I am glad it is only shoulders from the chests.

Ok lets say they made a token system, what are people going to do after they get what they want as you said?
You will never see naf traits in the world anymore, it will cause a linear game play in terms of gear. No one will be doing dungeons as you said, all you will see is people doing dungeon runs for moneys so people can get these tokens to get gear, that is where ESO will die then become F2P like all the other failed MMO's....
I am seeing quite a few people try to make ESO like other MMO's, this is ESO not those failed games, if those game were so good why is everyone here trying to change another to be like them, why not go back? Exactly.

I understand people don't like RnG, but because some people want it easy peasy and get what they want with a pick and choose it will inevitably kill the game. RnG, get used to it. It is there to make some things hard to get for a reason.

Everstorm

Make the dropped mask the token. Turn it in for a shoulder piece of the same set, armor type en trait.

notimetocare

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

No drawbacks... You dont know how design works if you think that. BoE kills the mmo grinds. You would be surprised how important that is. D3 real money AH is a good example.
Token systems remove any real feeling of reward.

Corpier

I'm all for a token system. I dislike the rng system in place that allows there to be an infinite chance for a player to never get the item they want. That said, I don't think it should be easy to get best in slot gear. A good token system in my opinion would still require the content to be done enough times that gear is still earned instead of being given instant gratification.

It would be nice if players could trade fifty undaunted keys for a shoulder piece of their choosing or be rewarded with one token per vMA run and be able to trade one hundred of these for their ideal weapon. A similar system already exists in the form of the key fragments and chests in WGT and ICP. Simply lower the drop rate to one key fragment per boss, and then let players exchange the keys for one piece of specific loot when they have gathered enough from whatever dungeon or trial they want gear from.

The gear farm is a traditional aspect of MMOs to encourage replay of content. That is fine, gear should be earned, but gear should be earnable. The possibility that probability would allow a player to run content an infinite amount of times without getting what they want shouldn't exist. A token system would be a light at the end of the tunnel that would encourage the farm instead of discouraging players from even starting it.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

They should make monster shoulder pieces BOE, the RNG required is ludicrous.

Still unsure on VMA becoming BOE, although it would make me rich

MakoFore

i dont know why they dont want BOE- originally they said they didnt want a gold farming system to infiltrate the economy like WOW, etc- but then why make some things BOP and others BOE?
I've never understood it- in fact i think we should be able to sell everything- even used weapons- maybe make them degrade a quality when sold- so a gold cp160 vma weapon becomes purple 150 or something.

Slick_007

Corpier wrote: »

I'm all for a token system. I dislike the rng system in place that allows there to be an infinite chance for a player to never get the item they want. That said, I don't think it should be easy to get best in slot gear. A good token system in my opinion would still require the content to be done enough times that gear is still earned instead of being given instant gratification.

so what you are saying is instead of running it 10 times and getting 10 drops, run it 10 times and buy 1 drop. no.

It would be nice if players could trade fifty undaunted keys for a shoulder piece of their choosing or be rewarded with one token per vMA run and be able to trade one hundred of these for their ideal weapon. A similar system already exists in the form of the key fragments and chests in WGT and ICP. Simply lower the drop rate to one key fragment per boss, and then let players exchange the keys for one piece of specific loot when they have gathered enough from whatever dungeon or trial they want gear from.

The gear farm is a traditional aspect of MMOs to encourage replay of content. That is fine, gear should be earned, but gear should be earnable. The possibility that probability would allow a player to run content an infinite amount of times without getting what they want shouldn't exist. A token system would be a light at the end of the tunnel that would encourage the farm instead of discouraging players from even starting it.[/quote]

your suggestion is to reduce the amount of drops in order to let you buy the one you want. i dont think many people would be happy with that.

Coilbox

MakoFore wrote: »

i dont know why they dont want BOE- originally they said they didnt want a gold farming system to infiltrate the economy like WOW, etc- but then why make some things BOP and others BOE?
I've never understood it- in fact i think we should be able to sell everything- even used weapons- maybe make them degrade a quality when sold- so a gold cp160 vma weapon becomes purple 150 or something.

Please NO, the game would lose every purpose to run any instances. Would be a gold fest... Throw money to merchants, and get everything just by wallet strike. Absolutely not.

The game would be dead in no time when you dont need any skill to get gear.

1) Pick flowers
2) Sell them
3) Buy and equip BiS gear?

That would be a very cheesy game mechanic, honestly.

Feanor

Skill to get gear? How is running a normal dungeon 623 times even remotely connected to "skill"?

FoolishHuman

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

The drawback to everthing being sellable is that the market would be flooded and very quickly saturated with gear. Then just to keep the economy stable the drop rates will have to be lowered. Very soon after that the best way to get gear will be to just sit in rawlkha and play merchant while the people actually doing content will never get anything.

Coilbox

Feanor wrote: »

Skill to get gear? How is running a normal dungeon 623 times even remotely connected to "skill"?

Well, yeah... you still have to run the dungeon, maybe for you is not a big deal, for some players it is. But i was more thinking about instances such as vMA and vDSA, where you and your group respectively need to have some skill.

And come on, since you can trade with the people in your group when running a dungeon, the grind is not so bad... Im playing since beta, and even when there was not such thing as trading with your group i NEVER had to run a dungeon 623 times ¬¬

Septimus_Magna

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

You don't want to see Maelstrom Greatsword tagged 2 million trust me.

I do actually. There are many people who do not have the skill to do vMA, I know some people who are full time merchants and their DPS remind me of throwing gold at the bad guy and hoping they die

There are also people who have done vMA 1000 times and still don't have the weapon they need.

I agree, my personal problem with vMA is that the draw pool is simply too large. Usually I have 2-3 hours after work days so I could run vMA roughly 10x each week if I dont do anything else. The chance that you get the weapon that you need is 8%, the chance that you get the trait that you want is 12% so you'd need an average of roughly 100 runs to get what you want.

A good solution would be a token system:

• The first boss drops 1x token, the second boss drops 2x tokens, the third boss drops 3x tokens etc.
• After you've completed vMA once you can choose which weapon to buy (fire staff for example) but the trait remains RNG.
• One weapon should cost 45x tokens so you can earn one addition weapon each run.
• A flawless run gives 15 additional tokens.
• Tokens are bankable but you cannot trade them.

People who are practicing vMA earn tokens and they can buy weapons as soon as they complete it. This will motivate people to keep trying to improve because even failed runs give tokens that are useful in the future.

pod88kk

I love it when he angrily says NERD!!! Not an insult you hear everyday, makes me giggle

Qbiken

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Making everything BoE would reinvigorate this game. I'm not sure why ZOS is so against it.

A token system is fine too.

Neither solution has any drawbacks and will only lead to more players picking up the game.

You don't want to see Maelstrom Greatsword tagged 2 million trust me.

I do actually. There are many people who do not have the skill to do vMA, I know some people who are full time merchants and their DPS remind me of throwing gold at the bad guy and hoping they die

There are also people who have done vMA 1000 times and still don't have the weapon they need.

I agree, my personal problem with vMA is that the draw pool is simply too large. Usually I have 2-3 hours after work days so I could run vMA roughly 10x each week if I dont do anything else. The chance that you get the weapon that you need is 8%, the chance that you get the trait that you want is 12% so you'd need an average of roughly 100 runs to get what you want.

A good solution would be a token system:

• The first boss drops 1x token, the second boss drops 2x tokens, the third boss drops 3x tokens etc.
• After you've completed vMA once you can choose which weapon to buy (fire staff for example) but the trait remains RNG.
• One weapon should cost 45x tokens so you can earn one addition weapon each run.
• A flawless run gives 15 additional tokens.
• Tokens are bankable but you cannot trade them.

People who are practicing vMA earn tokens and they can buy weapons as soon as they complete it. This will motivate people to keep trying to improve because even failed runs give tokens that are useful in the future.

I like the idea of making you chose weapon but not the trait. I would also like to add the opposite: Make it possible to choose trait but not the weapon. In other Words:

* You can choose to pick the weapon you want but not the trait but....
* You can also choose the prefered trait but not the weapon.

This would reduce RNG but not remove it completely. The challenge with a tokensystem however is to decide how many tokens a vMA weapon is worth. Me personally think 4-6 runs can give you an extra weapon from the "token merchant".

theamazingx

Undaunted chests and Maelstrom have loot pools far too massive. The rate isn't the problem, it's the lack of ceiling. I got my sharpened inferno in about 75 runs. Better players than me haven't gotten theirs in over 300. I think making everything BoE would be a stretch, though it would make me tons of money, but a token system, something like double the existing rng (perfect maelstrom weapons are ~1%, so make them cost 200 tokens) to put a cap on the grind is the least we could ask for. I'd prefer players spent that time learning their class, maybe then endgame wouldn't be the desert we see now.

SanTii.92

There was a strong case for a token system, when traits were that important. But now? Not much so.

Dubhliam

I support the idea of a token system for vMA.

I am strongly against a BoE version of sets that are BoP.

If a token system will motivate players to beat the arena and hone their skills in iz, great.
Those people are currently discouraged to train for vMA because of RNG.

Making sets BoE would have exactly the opposite effect of a token system.
It would make less skilled players even less motivated to train for it, while rewarding those that are already skilled in it.