Please Return to 50 Ultimate Cost: Death Stroke, Incapacitating Strike, and Soul Harvest

GrumpyDuckling

Now that proc sets are somewhat under control in PVP, it would be great to see the Nightblade Assassination ultimate returned to its former cost of 50 ultimate. It received its nerf to 70 ultimate cost because it was too deadly in PVP when paired with proc sets, but now that most of the problem proc sets have timers, or were turned into dots, (along with the nerf that made proc sets unable to crit), can we please return this single target ultimate to its former glory?

At the time I fully understood the decision to increase the cost to 70 because it helped slow the bleeding problem of proc sets, but I'd really love to start enjoying this ultimate again in PVE, which is absolutely ruled by AOE anyway. We had a fun single-target cheap ultimate to use, but now it's hard to consider it worth slotting with a 70 ultimate cost.

Edit: 70* cost

bubbygink

As a NB I think 75 is a good number for death stroke and its morphs. With our potion passive and the ult you get for getting a kill, you can kill somebody with an Incap/Soul Harvest, pop a pot and nearly have it back up already. 50 is just too cheap IMO.

TheDoomsdayMonster

bubbygink wrote: »

As a NB I think 75 is a good number for death stroke and its morphs. With our potion passive and the ult you get for getting a kill, you can kill somebody with an Incap/Soul Harvest, pop a pot and nearly have it back up already. 50 is just too cheap IMO.

100% agree...

50 Ult cost is waaay too cheap; especially when you consider that a kill in PvP will restore 20 Ult immediately...

At 50 Incap refreshes too fast for something as powerful as it is...

Jake1576

I agree the ultimate should be 50 ultimate cost again

GrumpyDuckling

It didn't seem too strong in PVP at 50 cost until proc sets were introduced - because Nightblades were bursting people down in one quick combination with the procs and then disappearing. Now, that burst with procs doesn't hit as hard and is more difficult to achieve. Plus, the ultimate is a telegraphed attack which is dodgeable, and forces the Nightblade to get into combat range (risk/reward for use).

My main argument is that it's just not worth slotting in PVE, and I think if it were restored back to 50 then it might be worth using again, at least in situational spots.

Master_Kas

I wish they would just revert the game to older patches (pre CP). Sure it had it's bugs but was way more fun than it is now.

Sylphex

Would be a huge buff to stamblade dps in pve if we revert incap to 50 cost ulti. That war machine build is already hitting 45k+ pre-hotr.

Rohamad_Ali

Increase the cost of Dawnbreaker instead .

Gilliamtherogue

I've been asking for it for ages, but I really want a rehash of the original Death Stroke that scaled with damage based on Ultimate you casted it with. You could activate it for 50 Ultimate and get a slightly stronger than a spammable amount of damage, and Major Defile for 6 seconds. Or you could save up to 275 Ultimate (it's scaling cap) for a very powerful hitting ability, that had more counter play since the cast time was MUCH longer and noticeable (You *** twirl around, how dope is that?!).

In here lies the suggestion; Instead of letting the ultimate's itinitial hit scale with Ultimate used, add a Damage over Time and an increase of Major Defile and the 20% bonus damage duration based on how much ultimate was used. The ultimate would deal devastating Damage over Time with a considerable duration to Defile and 20% bonus damage, due to it being purely single target.

Please give me a reason to use this Ultimate other than being a buff slave or cheesing people from stealth.

Qbiken

As a Nigthblade in PvP you´ll get ultimate up very fast though:

* Use a potion = 20 ultimate
* Kill a player = 20 ultimate, add Another 9 if they´re a vampire
* If you´re using the Soulharvest morph you´ll get Another 7 on a kill

So at best you can get: 36 ultimate on each kill. Is this 2x if you´re emperor??? Always wondered..

Vetixio

Its fine as its the same as the other lowest cost ultimates which all cost 75. Before it was the only one which costed 50 and kinda over performed because of it. And besides like many have said you easily get your ulti back as a Nightblade/In Cyrodiil. Imo it should be 100 ulti for how hard it hits.

Koensol

Lol look at all these former procblades looking for a new crutch. It is fine as is currently. I play stamnb all the time in pvp and it is so easy to get incap. Even with the current cost.

scipionumatia

Can we please get rid of the lockup that happens immediately before you get hit by incap? Locks up your whole controller before you even get hit, reduces "counterplay"

Nihilos

If anything, the cost should be increased to 100+. It does too many things and hits too hard to be so cheap.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Double post

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Vetixio wrote: »

Its fine as its the same as the other lowest cost ultimates which all cost 75. Before it was the only one which costed 50 and kinda over performed because of it. And besides like many have said you easily get your ulti back as a Nightblade/In Cyrodiil.

The problem with the ultimate generation is that 20 points come from potions and if like me you can sustain then you don't have the quick slots for a trash pot just for free ultimate on a 45 second cooldown. When I need a potion I need it. After I pull off a gank is not that time.

To your point on the other cheap ultimates Templars cheap ultimate is an AoE, Sorcerers Cheap Ultimate is a spammable, Dragon Knights cheapest ultimate is an undodgeable AoE with a hard CC and of Course Wardens have two cheap ultimates ones a heal and the other is free to cast so really all the other ultimates have a leg up on Nightblades outside of ganking.

This is not to say Death Stroke and both morphs are bad in an way but if you're outside of a gank the vast majority of the game it's just not worth the cost.

Vapirko

Agreed 75 is fine, also playing a stamblade. What I did find laughable was being hit by crystal frags and incap in my death recap yesterday and crystal frags hit for 1k more damage lol. NB ultimate is less powerful than sorc skill

Joy_Division

I'll trade my 75 cost Radial Sweep for your 75 Incap.

GrumpyDuckling

Koensol wrote: »

Lol look at all these former procblades looking for a new crutch. It is fine as is currently. I play stamnb all the time in pvp and it is so easy to get incap. Even with the current cost.

Posts like this frustrate me. You are viewing this discussion exclusively through a PVP lens and making general assumptions about players. Please consider all angles.

In PVP, even at 50 cost, Death Stroke is far from being a crutch. Good players dodge it all day long and it only hits one player if it connects. Dawnbreaker is a way more of a crutch (hits multiple enemies and never misses), even at 125 cost.

Try thinking about Death Stroke from a PVE perspective, which is game play that is even more dominated by AOE. At 75 cost it's just not worth forgoing an AOE ultimate in most scenarios. Even at 50 cost it's probably not worth slotting 80% of the time.

DKsUnite

Nihilos wrote: »

If anything, the cost should be increased to 100+. It does too many things and hits too hard to be so cheap.

GrumpyDuckling

Nihilos wrote: »

If anything, the cost should be increased to 100+. It does too many things and hits too hard to be so cheap.

PVE.

Koensol

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Lol look at all these former procblades looking for a new crutch. It is fine as is currently. I play stamnb all the time in pvp and it is so easy to get incap. Even with the current cost.

Posts like this frustrate me. You are viewing this discussion exclusively through a PVP lens and making general assumptions about players. Please consider all angles.

In PVP, even at 50 cost, Death Stroke is far from being a crutch. Good players dodge it all day long and it only hits one player if it connects. Dawnbreaker is a way more of a crutch (hits multiple enemies and never misses), even at 125 cost.

Try thinking about Death Stroke from a PVE perspective, which is game play that is even more dominated by AOE. At 75 cost it's just not worth forgoing an AOE ultimate in most scenarios. Even at 50 cost it's probably not worth slotting 80% of the time.

Yea, I'm sorry for the snarky response. Im just so happy that viper got nerfed and some of the former procblades finally have to man up and press more than 2 buttons.

Anyway, I think it is completely fine in PvE. You get ult so fast in PvE. Constant light attacks, killing of adds, etc. Yes it is single target, but it increases your damage by a whopping 20% on top of relentless focus. This increases all your damage, including AoE. Plus you can proc war machine with it, for another massive dmg increase, for you and your group.

Back when it was 50, my experience was that when I got to the point where my rotation was ready for an incap, it was already active for some time. I.e. wasted ult. I really don't see any problem with the 75 cost. And you can just slot DB on back bar and plan to use it for the phases with adds. In the phases where it is about single target dps, you can rely on incap.

cpuScientist

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

I've been asking for it for ages, but I really want a rehash of the original Death Stroke that scaled with damage based on Ultimate you casted it with. You could activate it for 50 Ultimate and get a slightly stronger than a spammable amount of damage, and Major Defile for 6 seconds. Or you could save up to 275 Ultimate (it's scaling cap) for a very powerful hitting ability, that had more counter play since the cast time was MUCH longer and noticeable (You *** twirl around, how dope is that?!).

In here lies the suggestion; Instead of letting the ultimate's itinitial hit scale with Ultimate used, add a Damage over Time and an increase of Major Defile and the 20% bonus damage duration based on how much ultimate was used. The ultimate would deal devastating Damage over Time with a considerable duration to Defile and 20% bonus damage, due to it being purely single target.

Please give me a reason to use this Ultimate other than being a buff slave or cheesing people from stealth.

If this were done it would just be used at 50 in PVE to proc warmachine faster. If the minimum time of the 29% damage was not the same as it is currently at same ulti cost, then it would be a pve nerf. It's a strong skill already, and you were able to list 2 great uses of the ulti already, PvP ganking a d PvE buffing. Lots of ults are only good in PVE or PvP. Some are bad in both (overload) I think this skill is fine as is. Any higher damage buff, even if it is a 300 cost ult would make it a very strong gank tool. Duels would just be building ult to 300 then one shotting lol. The ult is in a fine place.

olsborg

IMO, after pvping for 3+ years: Death Stroke and morphs should cost 70 ultimate as it does now, however it should not be dodgeable as it is not, at that cost. It can even be dodged passively by major evasion. If it remains dodgeable...it should cost 50-60 ultimate at max.

cpuScientist

olsborg wrote: »

IMO, after pvping for 3+ years: Death Stroke and morphs should cost 70 ultimate as it does now, however it should not be dodgeable as it is not, at that cost. It can even be dodged passively by major evasion. If it remains dodgeable...it should cost 50-60 ultimate at max.

I disagree I think it should be. Single target ults should be IMO. Just like overload. ZOS seems to go with beams and AOE ults as undodgeable. Besides cloak incap is hard to dodge since you don't know it's coming.

But I can see why you want it. It's an ult after all. But I really think it's fine as is. But just my opinion...

Killset

Incap can be shuffled, roll dodged, blocked, and shielded. On top of all this I am finding that it is just plain not going off when I try to use it. Sometimes it will drain my ultimate and sometimes it doesn't. I find that Incap works properly about 1 out of 3 times, conservatively, which makes it a 210 cost ultimate at minimum.

NyassaV

I'd be happy if it were 60 or 65 but no it has to be 70

rimmidimdim

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

I've been asking for it for ages, but I really want a rehash of the original Death Stroke that scaled with damage based on Ultimate you casted it with. You could activate it for 50 Ultimate and get a slightly stronger than a spammable amount of damage, and Major Defile for 6 seconds. Or you could save up to 275 Ultimate (it's scaling cap) for a very powerful hitting ability, that had more counter play since the cast time was MUCH longer and noticeable (You *** twirl around, how dope is that?!).

In here lies the suggestion; Instead of letting the ultimate's itinitial hit scale with Ultimate used, add a Damage over Time and an increase of Major Defile and the 20% bonus damage duration based on how much ultimate was used. The ultimate would deal devastating Damage over Time with a considerable duration to Defile and 20% bonus damage, due to it being purely single target.

Please give me a reason to use this Ultimate other than being a buff slave or cheesing people from stealth.

I can totally agree with this, I remember the days of the twirl and bit hitting ultimate, and the *** off when your 275 ultimate was dodged lol. It was fun. Cheers.

cpuScientist

Killset wrote: »

Incap can be shuffled, roll dodged, blocked, and shielded. On top of all this I am finding that it is just plain not going off when I try to use it. Sometimes it will drain my ultimate and sometimes it doesn't. I find that Incap works properly about 1 out of 3 times, conservatively, which makes it a 210 cost ultimate at minimum.

For you maybe... You just need practice on how to land it. Or you are lagging...

Lexxypwns

At 50 ulti the pressure I could put out on mageblade would be too high for you to survive doing anything but turtling.

As it stands you can already chain kills fairly quickly with either morph.

Death stroke is only outperformed by warden trees in its ulti cost range. There's no other ulti under 100 ult that's in the same ball park as these two. I'll concede that really, trees are insanely over performing and in a class of its own as an ulti, but death stroke is in a really really nice place

FakeFox

Have some fun with 100% major slayer.