Will warden healer get a future buff?

Gulnagel

As it stands now, templar is still superior. You can do a trial without a warden but you need atleast one templar.

Warden lack a cleanse, since it is a plant based healer I figured it would have one, you know medicinal herbs and flowers. Im talking about a AoE group clense not the betty remove 1 effect from yourself.

Warden don't have a skill like templars shards.

Warden need a rework in their enchanted growth with more range and wider spread to be closer to templars BoL.

Warden lack a major magica steal..

All I'm saying is, for a class that is meant to be able to heal, has it's own tree for it, warden is pretty underwhelming.

Sure their forest ultimate is good, but in trials you won't use it. The passive that gives 10% more health to players you heal is nice, but warhorn does the same and it does not stack.

The only thing warden have above templar is the 10% increase to magica and stamina for 20 sec, if you manage to hit players with enchanted growth that is.

And I know you can use purge and energy orb but so can all classes. Why even bother with warden over templar?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really want to know your thoughts on this matter

red_emu

Not gonna happen because reasons.

Gulnagel

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

You mean the discussion or the warden buff?

SanTii.92

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

Ya it will. Next patch will probably be a class balance one.

Gulnagel

SanTii.92 wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

Ya it will. Next patch will probably be a class balance one.

Have they said anything about warden getting a buff?

Taleof2Cities

Gulnagel wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

You mean the discussion or the warden buff?

I think they're saying that buffing Warden heals so that they're on par or better than Templars would make it a Pay-To-Win class ... since you need Morrowind to play Warden.

At any rate, Warden healers are being found pretty regularly in Trials groups and in PvP raids. So, the healing gap doesn't appear as large as you claim it to be, @Gulnagel.

paulsimonps

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

You mean the discussion or the warden buff?

I think they're saying that buffing Warden heals so that they're on par or better than Templars would make it a Pay-To-Win class ... since you need Morrowind to play Warden.

At any rate, Warden healers are being found pretty regularly in Trials groups and in PvP raids. So, the healing gap doesn't appear as large as you claim it to be, @Gulnagel.

Agree, the gap is very very small, however peoples experience and skill with the Wardens can be. If you try to play a Warden Healer like a Templar healer then you will have a bad time, though same goes for all classes.

Baconlad

Im accually kind of blown away by ur post OP.

Templar has recieved significant nerfs to the class healing/ support role. These nerfs were designed to even the playing field for sorcs, dks and nightblades to heal.

Templar are still amazing to heal with, and now the other classes are just as good, at least with trials in mind. 4 mans dont matter hardly at all.
There absolutely no reason why you cant use any of the skills you already spoke about. Just because templar has those skills tied in with class skills doesnt make him better. Cleanse for example. Would rather have a templar using efficiant purge over extebded ritual. Since i would rather dps take the extra secobd to notbfk up their rotation to hit the synergy.

Shards dont matter anymore, orbs does the same thing

Templars dont use their healing ult in trials...nor should wardens. There are better ults out there for both classes.

A magic DPS should be using elemental drain for magic steal. (unless im wrong and it only applies to caster) in which case slot siphon skill from resto staff. You do NOT want to use restoring aura...its broken as *** and you never know what mobs will be pulled halfway across the trial.

Wardens are fine for trials healing. You asking for warden buffs, they wont do it. If anything sorc, dk and nightblade need support group buffs. Not warden. Also it would be easier for them to just nerf templar than buff four other classes, so no...templar do not need a tenth nerf patch in a row

red_emu

Warden healer is also a good off DPS with good survivability hence if you buff the heals the whole sorc shield stacking community is gonna scream NERF!

And that's why it's not gonna happen - not because ZOS doesn't want to do it.

SanTii.92

Gulnagel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Not gonna happen because reasons.

Ya it will. Next patch will probably be a class balance one.

Have they said anything about warden getting a buff?

They haven't but it's pretty obvious to me that wardens overall ended up on the weaker side of things and will be buffed when they revisit classes again.

Chilly-McFreeze

red_emu wrote: »

Warden healer is also a good off DPS with good survivability hence if you buff the heals the whole sorc shield stacking community is gonna scream NERF!

And that's why it's not gonna happen - not because ZOS doesn't want to do it.

I've got a BINGO! in a totally unrelated thread. GG

Rungar

The skills are available to you.

Elemental drain from destruction gives magicka steal
Efficient Purge from support gives cleanse
orbs from undaunted gives the same resources as shards.

problem solved.

red_emu

Rungar wrote: »

The skills are available to you.

Elemental drain from destruction gives magicka steal
Efficient Purge from support gives cleanse
orbs from undaunted gives the same resources as shards.

problem solved.

I agree on that one. Orbs though....

"Hey tank! Here's an orb! Hold on! It should be with you in about 20 minutes"

Rungar

warden should be used to that.

paulsimonps

red_emu wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

The skills are available to you.

Elemental drain from destruction gives magicka steal
Efficient Purge from support gives cleanse
orbs from undaunted gives the same resources as shards.

problem solved.

I agree on that one. Orbs though....

"Hey tank! Here's an orb! Hold on! It should be with you in about 20 minutes"

That is more a problem with synergies not working well. The orbs are really not that slow but to get the prompt to show is tricky. Again please ZOS make it so everyone in range can see the prompt, will make it way easier to use. But yea orbs really aren't that slow.

idk

Warden healer is solid as it is. Have ran with a warden healer in all vet trials during this update.

red_emu wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

The skills are available to you.

Elemental drain from destruction gives magicka steal
Efficient Purge from support gives cleanse
orbs from undaunted gives the same resources as shards.

problem solved.

I agree on that one. Orbs though....

"Hey tank! Here's an orb! Hold on! It should be with you in about 20 minutes"

It helps for the healer to be in the same room as the group. Orbs travel speed is not an issue. So much not an issue that they have been used by raid groups for 3 years and counting.

As Paul pointed out, the synergy is the issue, but shards have a synergy issue as well. Something that became pronounced when Zos greatly reduced the range for the synergy a couple years ago.

Gulnagel

I don't get this "they can't buff warden it would be pay to win" mentality.

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

They don't need to make the warden OP but they need to make it on par with the templar, increase the range and whidt on enchanting growth and it will be better.

Taleof2Cities

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

Gulnagel

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

So in other words, warden will never be on par with any class for the fear of pay to win? So now we pay to lose

I get it, I think it's just sad they couldn't make warden free for all to really make it shine, people bought dlcs before, without another race.

What we have now is a class that will always underperform due to pay to win fear, it makes sense, just didn't think about it until now.

I wonder what would happen in they made warden a better healer than templar, would people still say like they do with warden "but templar is still viable, it's just a little difference bla bla bla"

No they would not, they would rage. Then people would say you can do everything with templar no need to buy warden. Still people would rage because we all want that min/maxing somewhere deep within ourselves.

kichwas

My impression is that Warden already is the better but less mastered healer.

In 6-12 months, barring any changes, people might be asking for a Templar healer buff.


The 'it would be pay to win' note in here is more than likely made up. It's not, it's just an expansion class: pretty normal in MMOs. So it would take a fairly large lack of understanding of what 'pay to win' is and what an 'MMO' is to come up with that conspiracy theory.

Loc2262

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

Am I missing something? Last time I checked, all DLC dungeon sets (Spell Power Cure, Scathing Mage etc.), like ALL dungeon sets, are bind-on-pickup. You can only trade them for 2 hours or so within the group that did the dungeon.

Overland sets and undaunted random rewards are BoE.

Chilly-McFreeze

Gulnagel wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

So in other words, warden will never be on par with any class for the fear of pay to win? So now we pay to lose

I get it, I think it's just sad they couldn't make warden free for all to really make it shine, people bought dlcs before, without another race.

What we have now is a class that will always underperform due to pay to win fear, it makes sense, just didn't think about it until now.

I wonder what would happen in they made warden a better healer than templar, would people still say like they do with warden "but templar is still viable, it's just a little difference bla bla bla"

No they would not, they would rage. Then people would say you can do everything with templar no need to buy warden. Still people would rage because we all want that min/maxing somewhere deep within ourselves.

You act like warden is nothing but a midden. Wardens are good at healing, good at tanking, great at utility. Only thing that lacks is dps in pve. You can still do everything with a warden, but it's only logical that wardens are not the best at everything.

You want them to be the best healer, better than any other class. probably because they get a healing skill line. Also even if they are better healers than DK, NB and Sorcs.

The next one wants them to be the best tanks because they got a tank skill line. And the third one comes by and says "I want them to be the best dps" - because they have a damage skill line.

Wardens really shine in utility and variability. Excellent (off-) healers or secondary tanks. So much more group utility than e.g. Sorcs.

Really, wardens are not as bad as you make them. Pay to lose.. *rolleyes*

Ihatenightblades

"Warden lack a major magicka steal"

Resto has a magicka steal ability available to any healer that uses resto which they should be using.

paulsimonps

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

"Warden lack a major magicka steal"

Resto has a magicka steal ability available to any healer that uses resto which they should be using.

Well first of all there is no MAJOR magicka steal, only minor, and like Ihate said one of the morphs of Force Siphon on the restoration staff has minor magicka steal, as well most healers use a destro staff and it has Elemental Drain. The Warden Lacks magicka steal argument really doesn't fly here.

Gulnagel

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

So in other words, warden will never be on par with any class for the fear of pay to win? So now we pay to lose

I get it, I think it's just sad they couldn't make warden free for all to really make it shine, people bought dlcs before, without another race.

What we have now is a class that will always underperform due to pay to win fear, it makes sense, just didn't think about it until now.

I wonder what would happen in they made warden a better healer than templar, would people still say like they do with warden "but templar is still viable, it's just a little difference bla bla bla"

No they would not, they would rage. Then people would say you can do everything with templar no need to buy warden. Still people would rage because we all want that min/maxing somewhere deep within ourselves.

You act like warden is nothing but a midden. Wardens are good at healing, good at tanking, great at utility. Only thing that lacks is dps in pve. You can still do everything with a warden, but it's only logical that wardens are not the best at everything.

You want them to be the best healer, better than any other class. probably because they get a healing skill line. Also even if they are better healers than DK, NB and Sorcs.

The next one wants them to be the best tanks because they got a tank skill line. And the third one comes by and says "I want them to be the best dps" - because they have a damage skill line.

Wardens really shine in utility and variability. Excellent (off-) healers or secondary tanks. So much more group utility than e.g. Sorcs.

Really, wardens are not as bad as you make them. Pay to lose.. *rolleyes*

True, good and solid arguments. I might be a bit harsh on the class. And yes I feel it should be a healer mainly because it has it's own skill-line for it, maybe that's the problem.

However we all know that this "jack of all trades" won't work in PvE veteran dungeons and trials, you keep to your role.

I probably had to high of a expectation on warden, and maybe I'm missing the bigger picture. Hence why I wanted this tread, to discuss

hmsdragonfly

At this state Warden healers (and also NB, Sorc, NB healers) can't play with Magicka Tanks, because Magicka tanks aren't getting any Stamina support, if they pick up the orbs they will only get Magicka because their stamina pool is lower.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please transer the words to the combat team, orb needs to share the same synergy as the one from Luminous Shard, as in, orb should be able to restore both stamina and magicka, not just one type of resources.

Bryong9ub17_ESO

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

... The DLC sets are NOT BoE. You can not buy them in guild stores...

yolanee

I main templar healer and have warden healer alt.

I don't think warden healer is weaker at all. You just can't play it the same way. On templar I stand in place more than I do with warden. With warden I'm zapping all over the place.

Pro's:
+ extremely cheap and very powerful healign ultimate
+ You have to try hard to run out of magicka
+ the amount of buffs you can give your group is pretty insane especially when you combine it with stuff from resto staff
+ very powerful cone heal
+ No need to waste a slot with inner light, you have lotus flower which gives you the same buff plus you heal with your light and heavy attacks
+ Northern storm ultimate which not only increases your max magicka while slotted, but gives major protection to group when triggered.
+ Blue betty, enough said

Con's:
- No equivalent of shards(orbs will do though, you just need to keep to tank more than you do with templar)
- No area HoT (though there is excelent nature's grasp which gives great HoT + you can keep mobile)
- No group purify (but then again, how many healers rely on people using synergies from cleansing ritual - which sometimes shows or sometimes doesn't - instead of using purge?)

Aaand that's it. Warden is already very strong and with additional buffs it would really be Pay to win. If anything I think that templar should be buffed.

FoolishHuman

What about nightblade healers or dragonknight healers? Shouldn't all classes be good at healing and not be left behind templars?
Class-independant healing skill should get a buff.

Chilly-McFreeze

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm just curious but all the DLCs that's been released and dungeons connected to the DLCs, what about gear you can only obtain in a certain DLC isn't that pay to win?

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

The Warden you can't buy with in-game gold.

... The DLC sets are NOT BoE. You can not buy them in guild stores...

Baraha's curse, syvarra's scales, Tavas favor, briarheart, flanking, morihaus... sure, there are exceptions but to generalize all is simply untrue.

Taleof2Cities

Loc2262 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The DLC sets, except for DLC Trials gear, are all BoE ... so you can buy those at the guild stores with in-game gold.

Am I missing something? Last time I checked, all DLC dungeon sets (Spell Power Cure, Scathing Mage etc.), like ALL dungeon sets, are bind-on-pickup. You can only trade them for 2 hours or so within the group that did the dungeon.

Overland sets and undaunted random rewards are BoE.

Fair point, but some of those sets are available outside of the dungeons (e.g. Wrath of the Imperium can now be found in Cyrodiil).