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[idea] so many crafting options exist now , why not reduce the mats cost of 160 CP crafting gear?

boaz733
boaz733
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i never really got why 150 CP gear cost ~140 mats less than those of level 160 CP.
Edited by boaz733 on August 9, 2017 4:50AM
  • Tannus15
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    Quality of life crafting changes.

    CP160 gear uses 16refined mats. 150 sucks so badly. I end up not crafting stuff so I have enough mats left over for writs.

    Glass fragments still cost 10k. Why? It's so stupidly expensive. Please drop the price to like 1k.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Mats cost almost nothing these days.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Mats cost almost nothing these days.

    That may be changing if 'bis' for PVE is now a crafted set...
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  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    Mats cost almost nothing these days.

    That may be changing if 'bis' for PVE is now a crafted set...

    might see a slight uptick but mats are plentiful

    To me the cp160 10x made some sense when fewer sets drops were scaled to 160 but with 1T giving every drop auto-scale and up to cp160 the reasoning for 10x made no sense any more.

    They really needed to have done and still need to do significant changes with equip crafting after the 1T rewrite of drops.

    I know some folks are happy as clams with the new upcoming theory meta being julianos, but that is still just one set and maybe Hundings will be similar.

    its not some miraculous crafting revival, just a transitory blip on the mostly flatline EKG for equip crafting.

    Edited by STEVIL on August 9, 2017 11:57AM
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  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
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    Mats are worthless anyway. I get enough mats from just deconstructing alone that I could craft me a new armour set every day if it would be that cheap. At that point you could just give us all gear for free as well.
    EU/PC 1000+ CP
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  • stevepdodson_ESO888
    stevepdodson_ESO888
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    This goes back to before 1T when they were going to introduce Vet17 and Vet18 levels (yes the mats for these levels were data mined) and keep exponentially increasing the mats required to craft.

    However, this is all now dead in the water due to 1T scaling and as you imply no longer makes any sense to do so.
  • Ghost-Shot
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    Asking for crafted gear to not require a lot of mats would be like expecting a full set of BiS raid gear in your mail upon hitting level 50, you need to put some effort into getting your items.
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  • MLGProPlayer
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Mats cost almost nothing these days.

    That may be changing if 'bis' for PVE is now a crafted set...

    might see a slight uptick but mats are plentifuL

    Yep. The supply is ridiculously high right now. A lot of people farming, and a lot of botters flooding the market too.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 10, 2017 9:11PM
  • STEVIL
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    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Asking for crafted gear to not require a lot of mats would be like expecting a full set of BiS raid gear in your mail upon hitting level 50, you need to put some effort into getting your items.

    Really, you see the diff between 700ish mats vs 70 mats to be on par with the effort it takes to farm full set BiD trial gear??? Really???

    Well I will need to bookmark this three stacks mats vs full BuS trial claim for next time anybody complains about grinding for gear set/traits.

    We have the definitive Ghost Shot proclaims kill shot vs those RNG grind claims.

    Thanks!!!!!

    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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  • MarzAttakz
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    The thought of crafting CP160 gear, even a single set of Julianos or Hundings, for each of my 7 characters is daunting.

    I've religiously deconned everything since I started playing about 6 months ago. I've semi-religiously gathered nodes in my journey. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be lucky if I could make more than 5 sets.

    I agree with the OP, and could never quite fathom why CP160 requires 10x the amount of mats! I was disappointed when my first character hit 160 and I decided to craft her a set only to discover I didn't have enough mats or mates.

    How about 2x, 3x, or even 5x more mats, 10x isn't justified by the increase in stats.
    Edited by MarzAttakz on August 11, 2017 12:30PM
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  • CeeJonesy
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    Mats are easy to get. Go to Bal Foyen and run around picking everything you see up. Should take about an hour and a half to get enough mats for a set and probably a Kuta or 2 as well. You don't even need to do it all in one sitting. Do 15 mins a day and you will be swimming in mats in no time.

    All your posts are asking for the game to hand stuff to you. I get it if you don't have a lot of time to play like some people do but the game is already easy enough. Things should require at least a minimum amount of effort otherwise the game becomes meaningless without anything to work towards.
    EU XBOX1
  • MLGProPlayer
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    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    The thought of crafting CP160 gear, even a single set of Julianos or Hundings, for each of my 7 characters is daunting.

    I've religiously deconned everything since I started playing about 6 months ago. I've semi-religiously gathered nodes in my journey. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be lucky if I could make more than 5 sets.

    I agree with the OP, and could never quite fathom why CP160 requires 10x the amount of mats! I was disappointed when my first character hit 160 and I decided to craft her a set only to discover I didn't have enough mats or mates.

    How about 2x, 3x, or even 5x more mats, 10x isn't justified by the increase in stats.

    1. You don't need gear on every toon since gear is shareable.

    2. You can buy mats, you don't need to farm them.

    3. Farming the gold to buy mats for 7 purple sets should only take a few hours (around 3-4 on PC, 1-2 on console).
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 13, 2017 6:44PM
  • SiliconShadow
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    Matts are worthless now? Have you seen the price of ancestor silk? ~ ka-ching!
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    Matts are worthless now? Have you seen the price of ancestor silk? ~ ka-ching!
    Silk is the most expensive but ~10k per stack? Hardly expensive and not even a dent on the 100k a stack it used to be.
    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    The thought of crafting CP160 gear, even a single set of Julianos or Hundings, for each of my 7 characters is daunting.

    I've religiously deconned everything since I started playing about 6 months ago. I've semi-religiously gathered nodes in my journey. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be lucky if I could make more than 5 sets.

    I agree with the OP, and could never quite fathom why CP160 requires 10x the amount of mats! I was disappointed when my first character hit 160 and I decided to craft her a set only to discover I didn't have enough mats or mates.

    How about 2x, 3x, or even 5x more mats, 10x isn't justified by the increase in stats.

    1. You don't need gear on every toon since gear is shareable.

    2. You can buy mats, you don't need to farm them.

    3. Farming the gold to buy mats for 7 purple sets should only take a few hours (around 3-4 on PC, 1-2 on console).

    @MarzAttakz You can literally go to the sewers with 1k stones in your pocket, cap a district and farm it for 20 minutes and you'll have enough tel-var to buy mats for a whole set, probably more.

    To be honest, 3 stacks of silk is ~30k - Is paying 210k to gear up 7 characters in BiS gear an issue?
    Edited by BNOC on August 14, 2017 12:50PM
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  • MarzAttakz
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    BNOC wrote: »
    Matts are worthless now? Have you seen the price of ancestor silk? ~ ka-ching!
    Silk is the most expensive but ~10k per stack? Hardly expensive and not even a dent on the 100k a stack it used to be.
    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    The thought of crafting CP160 gear, even a single set of Julianos or Hundings, for each of my 7 characters is daunting.

    I've religiously deconned everything since I started playing about 6 months ago. I've semi-religiously gathered nodes in my journey. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be lucky if I could make more than 5 sets.

    I agree with the OP, and could never quite fathom why CP160 requires 10x the amount of mats! I was disappointed when my first character hit 160 and I decided to craft her a set only to discover I didn't have enough mats or mates.

    How about 2x, 3x, or even 5x more mats, 10x isn't justified by the increase in stats.

    1. You don't need gear on every toon since gear is shareable.

    2. You can buy mats, you don't need to farm them.

    3. Farming the gold to buy mats for 7 purple sets should only take a few hours (around 3-4 on PC, 1-2 on console).

    @MarzAttakz You can literally go to the sewers with 1k stones in your pocket, cap a district and farm it for 20 minutes and you'll have enough tel-var to buy mats for a whole set, probably more.

    To be honest, 3 stacks of silk is ~30k - Is paying 210k to gear up 7 characters in BiS gear an issue?

    @MLGProPlayer & @BNOC

    210K to gear up 7 characters is half the gold I've managed to accrue since I've started playing. Which I'm prepared to pay if the sets don't change in the next three months. I'll look into IC farming but keep in mind that some people have limited playtime. Yes, the sets are shareable luckily, I won't argue the fact, it's more the hassle that puts me off. I do currently share sets between characters, doing dailies are quite the chore.

    I feel you're both missing my point though: should it take half my liquid assets to make ONE SET for each character? Especially since I've been deconning every single green/blue/purple item I've found on every character since I started playing, in addition to stockpiling every node I've gathered.

    The numbers just don't add up and are simply pseudo-fluff to maintain a material market. They do not encourage experimenting with sets, they do not encourage generosity (as in crafting a gift set for someone newly CP160).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  • BNOC
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    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    @MLGProPlayer & @BNOC

    210K to gear up 7 characters is half the gold I've managed to accrue since I've started playing. Which I'm prepared to pay if the sets don't change in the next three months. I'll look into IC farming but keep in mind that some people have limited playtime. Yes, the sets are shareable luckily, I won't argue the fact, it's more the hassle that puts me off. I do currently share sets between characters, doing dailies are quite the chore.

    I feel you're both missing my point though: should it take half my liquid assets to make ONE SET for each character? Especially since I've been deconning every single green/blue/purple item I've found on every character since I started playing, in addition to stockpiling every node I've gathered.

    The numbers just don't add up and are simply pseudo-fluff to maintain a material market.They do not encourage experimenting with sets, they do not encourage generosity (as in crafting a gift set for someone newly CP160).

    I mean, I'm not sure when you started - I've played for 2 years and don't have 7 characters so I imagine you've played at least a year.

    Yeah it's not a fair price to players who aren't interested in their own economy but if you've only made 500k since you started playing then this doesn't really sound like a post about material requirements being too high, it's sounds like you don't want to make gold/farm materials yourself.

    Sharing sets is very long, I agree.

    1 - Limited playtime, I'm not sure what that means - But I know if you've not got an hour to gear up your character in endgame gear, then you've definitely not got time to participate/play in the content.

    2 - It actually costs you 0 gold to gear those characters up. Farming mats is free, any other patch would require you to go into a trial or dungeon and hope that you get all 5 pieces in one go. Which is NEVER cheaper than what you're talking about and until now has been pretty much a requirement for BiS gear.

    I know what you're saying but I don't think it should cost 3k to build endgame gear though (the shops buy price for 200 materials, which usually is matched in traders - think shadowhide etc;)
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • MarzAttakz
    MarzAttakz
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    BNOC wrote: »
    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    @MLGProPlayer & @BNOC

    210K to gear up 7 characters is half the gold I've managed to accrue since I've started playing. Which I'm prepared to pay if the sets don't change in the next three months. I'll look into IC farming but keep in mind that some people have limited playtime. Yes, the sets are shareable luckily, I won't argue the fact, it's more the hassle that puts me off. I do currently share sets between characters, doing dailies are quite the chore.

    I feel you're both missing my point though: should it take half my liquid assets to make ONE SET for each character? Especially since I've been deconning every single green/blue/purple item I've found on every character since I started playing, in addition to stockpiling every node I've gathered.

    The numbers just don't add up and are simply pseudo-fluff to maintain a material market.They do not encourage experimenting with sets, they do not encourage generosity (as in crafting a gift set for someone newly CP160).

    I mean, I'm not sure when you started - I've played for 2 years and don't have 7 characters so I imagine you've played at least a year.

    Yeah it's not a fair price to players who aren't interested in their own economy but if you've only made 500k since you started playing then this doesn't really sound like a post about material requirements being too high, it's sounds like you don't want to make gold/farm materials yourself.

    Sharing sets is very long, I agree.

    1 - Limited playtime, I'm not sure what that means - But I know if you've not got an hour to gear up your character in endgame gear, then you've definitely not got time to participate/play in the content.

    2 - It actually costs you 0 gold to gear those characters up. Farming mats is free, any other patch would require you to go into a trial or dungeon and hope that you get all 5 pieces in one go. Which is NEVER cheaper than what you're talking about and until now has been pretty much a requirement for BiS gear.

    I know what you're saying but I don't think it should cost 3k to build endgame gear though (the shops buy price for 200 materials, which usually is matched in traders - think shadowhide etc;)

    Thanks for your response, I've been playing for less than 9 months, can't recall exactly when I started. Most of my playtime to date has been spent leveling alts (6 are at CP310 and my last one is LV44), I haven't found a fitting guild yet and generally avoid the group finder.

    By limited playtime I mean 2-3 hours at the most per evening due to real life obligations. I completely agree that BiS (only after this patch though) should not be "easy" to obtain but will refute the statements with the following thread:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/309174/mats-required-to-craft-cp160

    Furthermore let's extrapolate the cost of a CP160 set, Julianos for instance, since that's always been a decent starting Magicka set...

    Chest: 150
    Legs: 140
    Gloves: 130
    Belt: 130
    Shoes: 130

    Ancestor Silk Required: 680 * 55 (average PC EU listing) = 37400G
    Elegant Lining: 1000G

    Total: 38400G

    Unless you're farming popular items or mats, and belong to a good trade guild, regular play will take approx. 4 days to generate that amount (keeping most greens/blues/purples to decon and build up a supply).

    On the surface it doesn't seem unreasonable, and yes, there are better ways to make gold, but keep in mind this is one set of 5 items, I'll admit you should test out set combinations with blue CP150 sets but this is quite a large sum of gold for newer players. Hence my original statement that 5x the material cost would be a reasonable compromise.

    Anyway I've said my piece, good gaming to all of you!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PC STEAM EU
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    Lhylyth | Breton | Magicka Templar
    Nhynyth | Redguard | Stamina Dragon Knight
    Ghwynyth | Dunmer | Magicka Sorcerer
    Shades-Of-Gray | Argonian | Stamina Dragon Knight
    Qura Scura | Altmer | Magicka Nightblade
    Or'Chastration | Orc | Stamina Sorcerer
    Za'Schanti | Argonian | Magicka Warden
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    BNOC wrote: »
    Matts are worthless now? Have you seen the price of ancestor silk? ~ ka-ching!
    Silk is the most expensive but ~10k per stack? Hardly expensive and not even a dent on the 100k a stack it used to be.
    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    The thought of crafting CP160 gear, even a single set of Julianos or Hundings, for each of my 7 characters is daunting.

    I've religiously deconned everything since I started playing about 6 months ago. I've semi-religiously gathered nodes in my journey. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be lucky if I could make more than 5 sets.

    I agree with the OP, and could never quite fathom why CP160 requires 10x the amount of mats! I was disappointed when my first character hit 160 and I decided to craft her a set only to discover I didn't have enough mats or mates.

    How about 2x, 3x, or even 5x more mats, 10x isn't justified by the increase in stats.

    1. You don't need gear on every toon since gear is shareable.

    2. You can buy mats, you don't need to farm them.

    3. Farming the gold to buy mats for 7 purple sets should only take a few hours (around 3-4 on PC, 1-2 on console).

    @MarzAttakz You can literally go to the sewers with 1k stones in your pocket, cap a district and farm it for 20 minutes and you'll have enough tel-var to buy mats for a whole set, probably more.

    To be honest, 3 stacks of silk is ~30k - Is paying 210k to gear up 7 characters in BiS gear an issue?

    @MLGProPlayer & @BNOC

    210K to gear up 7 characters is half the gold I've managed to accrue since I've started playing. Which I'm prepared to pay if the sets don't change in the next three months. I'll look into IC farming but keep in mind that some people have limited playtime. Yes, the sets are shareable luckily, I won't argue the fact, it's more the hassle that puts me off. I do currently share sets between characters, doing dailies are quite the chore.

    I feel you're both missing my point though: should it take half my liquid assets to make ONE SET for each character? Especially since I've been deconning every single green/blue/purple item I've found on every character since I started playing, in addition to stockpiling every node I've gathered.

    The numbers just don't add up and are simply pseudo-fluff to maintain a material market. They do not encourage experimenting with sets, they do not encourage generosity (as in crafting a gift set for someone newly CP160).

    You can make 80-100k/hour farming mats on PC (150-200k/hour if you're on console).

    You can't tell me you don't have 2-3 hours to set aside in the week.

    Some farming tips:

    - Buy farming gear (fiord, darkstride, prisoner, jailbreaker)
    - Install Harvest Map if you're on PC, download all node locations, and enable 3D pins (if you're on console, max out node visibility skill)
    - Unlock Rapid Maneuvers
    - Grab Steed mundus
    - Equip a gap closer if you have one
    - Run around any zone with high node density (pick up everything)
    - List on guild traders
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on August 14, 2017 8:46PM
  • starkerealm
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    This goes back to before 1T when they were going to introduce Vet17 and Vet18 levels (yes the mats for these levels were data mined) and keep exponentially increasing the mats required to craft.

    However, this is all now dead in the water due to 1T scaling and as you imply no longer makes any sense to do so.

    This is close.

    Originally, the level cap was vet 10. You can actually see this in the old tier 9 items. So you'd hit Voidsteel and that was a new material, and then you were done. During the first year, when patches increased the level cap (it went from v10 to v12, to v14), that material stayed the crafting material, so a patch would drop, and you'd have enough materials on hand to instantly gear to BIS status.

    Also, back then, there was a hidden level modifier applied to crafted gear. This usually worked out to +2 levels or +v1. So, crafted items really were, just, flat out better, outside of a handful of trial sets. Also, only a handful of sets existed at level cap. So, if you wanted something like Dragonguard or Warlock, you couldn't get them for endgame.

    When the Imperial City dropped, ZOS decided they wanted a more traditional grind to endgame gear system. The level cap went to V16, and V15 and V16 items used a new material, so your voidsteel stockpiles were worthless. Then, they made the Tier 10 mats ridiculously rare. You needed to go into the IC to get them initially. They didn't even exist as unrefined materials. You could get about one piece a week from your hireling.

    Beyond that, v16 gear did not drop frequently. It was supposed to be this vanishly rare thing you worked up to. Just getting a set of v16 equipment was supposed to be this massive accomplishment. The crafting costs were calculated to build into that.

    IC also removed the crafting level adjustment, which immediately took our V14 gear down, and demanded we grind up to V16 replacement pieces in order to get those stats back.

    So, the idea was that v16 gear was something you'd work towards. It would take months of grinding, or lots of killing things, but eventually you could get to that coveted top end gear.

    And, that was more or less how the game functioned for about six months. With the release of Thieves Guild, they changed it so that the quests in Hew's Bane, (and eventually on the Gold Coast with Dark Brotherhood) gave 160s as normal gear. Then they changed drop mechanics to make 160s more likely to drop, and at some point finally phased them out of the DLC zones.

    As Steve noted, the original intent was for this to be a never ending treadmill, but the requirements for getting v16 gear were so extreme, people balked. So the Tier 11 was dropped. Still in the game, still freaking out newbies whenever someone says, "no, really, the gear cap is going up, here's the material for that."

    When we got to One Tamriel, the last traces of the old "v16 gear should be stupidly rare and hard to work for" were effectively purged, except for crafting costs.

    EDIT: Also the part where you only get one piece on decon, that's from that era as well. Again, idea was, you'd be ripping apart hundreds of IC gear drops to make one piece of good equipment.
    Edited by starkerealm on August 14, 2017 9:20PM
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