How about undoing the nerf to StamSorc's Hurricane

Twohothardware

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Stam sorc is fine right now. People just need to learn how to build them. Since there aren't as many public builds out there because of the meta leaving stam sorc.

I have 40k stam, 27k health, 2.4k wpn dmg in 5 heavy with all prismatic armor glyphs. Yes I have to use bound armor on both bars, but I get 20% regen buff and the extra 8% stam. Get rid of dark deal or leave it on your overload bar unless you are truly only pumping damage with no sustain.

Edit: sets are shacklebreaker/spriggans/2pc monster

Dark deal is half the reason to go stam sorc.

Dark Deal is hard countered by any MagSorc or Magicka player running Crushing Shock. You have to get behind a tree or rock to even cast it otherwise you'll be interrupted.

Morgul667

TBois wrote: »

Stam sorc is fine right now. People just need to learn how to build them. Since there aren't as many public builds out there because of the meta leaving stam sorc.

I have 40k stam, 27k health, 2.4k wpn dmg in 5 heavy with all prismatic armor glyphs. Yes I have to use bound armor on both bars, but I get 20% regen buff and the extra 8% stam. Get rid of dark deal or leave it on your overload bar unless you are truly only pumping damage with no sustain.

Edit: sets are shacklebreaker/spriggans/2pc monster

Do you mind sharing your bars ? would be interested in sharing

TBois

Morgul667 wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Stam sorc is fine right now. People just need to learn how to build them. Since there aren't as many public builds out there because of the meta leaving stam sorc.

I have 40k stam, 27k health, 2.4k wpn dmg in 5 heavy with all prismatic armor glyphs. Yes I have to use bound armor on both bars, but I get 20% regen buff and the extra 8% stam. Get rid of dark deal or leave it on your overload bar unless you are truly only pumping damage with no sustain.

Edit: sets are shacklebreaker/spriggans/2pc monster

Do you mind sharing your bars ? would be interested in sharing

Sure, although what I run now I wouldn't recommend for most people. I've made it work, but it doesn't use rally or a gap closer. I'll put a couple of bar options I use below. The first being what I'm running now.

So this is bow/dw build focusing on dots. Why some might not like it is no rally from 2h line and no gap closer including streak:

Bow bar - hurricane, crit surge, bound armaments, draining shot, poison injection, OVERLOAD

DW bar - bound armaments, vigor, rendering slashes, shuffle, bloodthirst, DAWNBREAKER

Overload bar - dark deal, vigor, bound armaments, shuffle, rearming trap/utility skill

For something that I think would be a little easier to get used to coming from playing something a bit more common, definitely has more burst than the previous builds, drop one monster piece for 2x 5pc set on both bars:

2h bar - hurricane, rally, reverse slice, dizzying swing, crit rush, DAWNBREAKER

Bow bar: streak, vigor, dark deal/poison injection, shuffle, crit surge, OVERLOAD

If you want to fit bound armaments into the 2h/bow setup you have to drop two of the following dark deal/poison injection (easy to drop), streak (I would say this is extrememly difficult to loose. One of the best skills for stam sorc) or reverse slice (hard to get rid of the only execute, I have played this way, you really only use dizzying swing and it gets boring).

Morgul667

thanks

cowpker4life

Stamsorc biggest problem lately is substain in heavy armor compared to other classes substain in heavy armor as it's substain comes from magic substain but with constitution nerf substain for dark deal streak and crit surge dropped out the window. A slight cost reduction of streak and dark deal could be very helpful having streak cost 6k almost after one use when you are getting away from a zerg sucks. On the bright side it is one the few classes that can still use engine guardian don't know anyone besides sorc that would use it tbh.

TBois

cowpker4life wrote: »

Stamsorc biggest problem lately is substain in heavy armor compared to other classes substain in heavy armor as it's substain comes from magic substain but with constitution nerf substain for dark deal streak and crit surge dropped out the window. A slight cost reduction of streak and dark deal could be very helpful having streak cost 6k almost after one use when you are getting away from a zerg sucks. On the bright side it is one the few classes that can still use engine guardian don't know anyone besides sorc that would use it tbh.

You can sustain in heavy armor right now as a sorc. Don't rely on spamming dark deal. Make a wood elf or redguard, go regen mundus, use bound armaments (20% regen buff with passive), vamp (10% passive regen buff), wear bloodspawn with another 5pc that has some regen, use cost reduction or regen jewelry enchants

Toc de Malsvi

TBois wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Stam sorc is fine right now. People just need to learn how to build them. Since there aren't as many public builds out there because of the meta leaving stam sorc.

I have 40k stam, 27k health, 2.4k wpn dmg in 5 heavy with all prismatic armor glyphs. Yes I have to use bound armor on both bars, but I get 20% regen buff and the extra 8% stam. Get rid of dark deal or leave it on your overload bar unless you are truly only pumping damage with no sustain.

Edit: sets are shacklebreaker/spriggans/2pc monster

Dark deal is half the reason to go stam sorc.

It's one reason. Personally I think many use it as a crutch. i like stacking regen as a wood elf, but I have it on my overload bar. I love interrupting other sorcs that use it.

Edit: To elaborate a little, to use dark deal most effectively you need to create space. If you are already creating space it's easy enough to switch to your overload bar.

Dark deal synergizes very well wth bow builds because you are always trying to create space. Good players will still get an interrupt in here and there but it plays very nice with ranged setups.

Toc de Malsvi

Twohothardware wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Stam sorc is fine right now. People just need to learn how to build them. Since there aren't as many public builds out there because of the meta leaving stam sorc.

I have 40k stam, 27k health, 2.4k wpn dmg in 5 heavy with all prismatic armor glyphs. Yes I have to use bound armor on both bars, but I get 20% regen buff and the extra 8% stam. Get rid of dark deal or leave it on your overload bar unless you are truly only pumping damage with no sustain.

Edit: sets are shacklebreaker/spriggans/2pc monster

Dark deal is half the reason to go stam sorc.

Dark Deal is hard countered by any MagSorc or Magicka player running Crushing Shock. You have to get behind a tree or rock to even cast it otherwise you'll be interrupted.

Agreed but most won't actually match your dark deal with an interrupt. They'll get you once or twice and then try and setup a burst combo. Using LOS is a standard part of pvp outside of duals, and dark deal is amazing sustain if used with LOS.

WeylandLabs

I personally like this post its hilarious. People not thinking outside the box still, waiting for streamers or YouTubers to tell you whats good. Please test stuff !!!!!!!!!

Im hitting 4567k weapon damage on my build currently 2 vma weapons 21k bleeds twin and a my bleed passive when ( vma enchantment procs ) an 18k burst with a dot 28k dawnbreaker on current patch on console.

Hurricane needs no buff, just peoples playstyles and creativity. Funny thing about this is next patch will be even stronger and im missing 614 extra weapon damage.

Dw passive is bugged on off-hand bar 6% extra weapon power and nirn a vma weapon damage of 200.

Dark deal = No need for high regen, and penn is not needed by my bleeds.

Orc Master Race !

IAVITNI

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Im hitting 4567k weapon damage on my build currently 2 vma weapons 21k bleeds twin and a my bleed passive when ( vma enchantment procs ) an 18k burst with a dot 28k dawnbreaker on current patch on console.

Hurricane needs no buff, just peoples playstyles and creativity. Funny thing about this is next patch will be even stronger and im missing 614 extra weapon damage.

This is basically the new meta tbh, especially in battle grounds (PS4).

Although I do agree Stam sorc isn't in need of a direct buff. Maybe make Daedric Protection more accessible. Stam sorcs already don't have use for a significant amount of class passives and most don't stack stam regen to begin with so I'd call this a QoL change rather than a buff.

I would like increasing Streak cost to go down from 50% to 25% though, or just remove it entirely. With the Morrowind sustain changes, you streak more than twice, even on a mag sorc, you're gonna have a bad day unless you crutch on Dark Deal.

Chilly-McFreeze

IAVITNI wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Im hitting 4567k weapon damage on my build currently 2 vma weapons 21k bleeds twin and a my bleed passive when ( vma enchantment procs ) an 18k burst with a dot 28k dawnbreaker on current patch on console.

Hurricane needs no buff, just peoples playstyles and creativity. Funny thing about this is next patch will be even stronger and im missing 614 extra weapon damage.

This is basically the new meta tbh, especially in battle grounds (PS4).

Although I do agree Stam sorc isn't in need of a direct buff. Maybe make Daedric Protection more accessible. Stam sorcs already don't have use for a significant amount of class passives and most don't stack stam regen to begin with so I'd call this a QoL change rather than a buff.

I would like increasing Streak cost to go down from 50% to 25% though, or just remove it entirely. With the Morrowind sustain changes, you streak more than twice, even on a mag sorc, you're gonna have a bad day unless you crutch on Dark Deal.

Just change Dark Protection from +20% while Summoning ability slotted to 5% per Class ability.

magorim

I would like to see Streak going through block and actually hard CCing people. Curse has to be blockable again then (same for Backlash but that's another topic).

I agree with Daedric Protection being more accessible, it's very hard to give up two skill slots.


And regarding Hurricane and overperforming: WTF?

Twohothardware

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Im hitting 4567k weapon damage on my build currently 2 vma weapons 21k bleeds twin and a my bleed passive when ( vma enchantment procs ) an 18k burst with a dot 28k dawnbreaker on current patch on console.

Hurricane needs no buff, just peoples playstyles and creativity. Funny thing about this is next patch will be even stronger and im missing 614 extra weapon damage.

This is basically the new meta tbh, especially in battle grounds (PS4).

Although I do agree Stam sorc isn't in need of a direct buff. Maybe make Daedric Protection more accessible. Stam sorcs already don't have use for a significant amount of class passives and most don't stack stam regen to begin with so I'd call this a QoL change rather than a buff.

I would like increasing Streak cost to go down from 50% to 25% though, or just remove it entirely. With the Morrowind sustain changes, you streak more than twice, even on a mag sorc, you're gonna have a bad day unless you crutch on Dark Deal.

Just change Dark Protection from +20% while Summoning ability slotted to 5% per Class ability.

That would again just give a huge benefit to MagSorc's instead of StamSorc because StamSorc's use mostly weapon class abilities.

Chilly-McFreeze

Twohothardware wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Im hitting 4567k weapon damage on my build currently 2 vma weapons 21k bleeds twin and a my bleed passive when ( vma enchantment procs ) an 18k burst with a dot 28k dawnbreaker on current patch on console.

Hurricane needs no buff, just peoples playstyles and creativity. Funny thing about this is next patch will be even stronger and im missing 614 extra weapon damage.

This is basically the new meta tbh, especially in battle grounds (PS4).

Although I do agree Stam sorc isn't in need of a direct buff. Maybe make Daedric Protection more accessible. Stam sorcs already don't have use for a significant amount of class passives and most don't stack stam regen to begin with so I'd call this a QoL change rather than a buff.

I would like increasing Streak cost to go down from 50% to 25% though, or just remove it entirely. With the Morrowind sustain changes, you streak more than twice, even on a mag sorc, you're gonna have a bad day unless you crutch on Dark Deal.

Just change Dark Protection from +20% while Summoning ability slotted to 5% per Class ability.

That would again just give a huge benefit to MagSorc's instead of StamSorc because StamSorc's use mostly weapon class abilities.

Not by all means. Since you can only slot 6 abilites per bar it means a maximum of 24%-30% bonus (if we take 4-5% per ability as given) IF you slot all class abilites on your bar, which is unlikely since most mag sorcs make use of destro passives and the destro/ resto ultimate, therefore max 5 class abilites, more likely 4 abilites on main bar due to force pulse as filler for the non existing class spam in addition to a non-class ult. Means 16-20% - right about the current value they get from just slotting pets, curse, ward or aegis.

As a stam sorc on the other hand, I can use surge, dark deal, streak, hurricane and armaments + negate and overload. Since I rarely use armaments due to bar space issues I loose out the complete passive. With my suggestion I would get at least some percent increase in recovery. So it would be a gain compared to how it is handled on live.

One could argue that these are all skills you would backbar. But if you slot every single class ability there you also loose out on expert mage - 2% weapon/ spell damage per slotted ability. Personally I slot at least one ability on front, usually hurricane or streak. Means I would gain 4-5% compared to now. And if you run armaments for the sake of it's own utility, you would gain another 4-5% - and yes, here is the second throwback of my suggestion, then you'd loose 10-16% bonus. However, it would still eliminate the need to double slot a rather passive "active" ability and make room for something else.

Also, 5% (or 20%) stamina regen bonus does much more on a stam build that inherently has and needs higher stam regen than on a magickal build that usually runs around 600-1.2k stamina regen.

Now that I have written that, maybe they should change that passive completely. And while they are at it, change implosion as well. Unreliable for the user, unfair for the opponent.

@Twohothardware

IAVITNI

On the topic of Daedric Protection, we already have expert mage that scales with number of class abilities. While your suggestion @Chilly-McFreeze definitely works, it feels kind of lame to reuse the same model and does little to benefit stam sorc relative to mag. It also would be flavourless or would require a name change.

Considering the name, the bonus could be changed to a base 10% increase that increases up to 50% for 4 seconds based on your current health. The lower your health, the more protection you need, the higher your resource return. If we consider the sorc as a conduit for daedra to be in nirn, they would channel their energy into the sorc in order to keep their conduit alive. The closer to death the sorc is, the more willing they are to part with their power. Lore friendly, useful to both stam/mag, easily accessible without being overpowered and uses a unique mechanic (sorc wise).

Also, definitely agree that implosion could use a change. Its annoying when it procs on me and I never notice if it procs on my enemies. Could keep it the way it is for pve, but change it for pvp so that when it procs enemy players lose 300 magicka (implodes), take 300 oblivion damage and restores 150 magicka to the sorc with a cooldown of x seconds, probably 4-6. 600 stat loss and 150 magicka for a sorc seems fair. Kind of like the nb siphoning passive for ultimate. Not really op imo and provides some passive resource management the is useful to both kinds of sorcs. keep in mind that most sorcs do not benefit from 2 passives, and pet sorcs sacrifice minimum 2 ability slots to gain 2 meh passives. While this iteration of implosion may seem op, the daedric skill tree has huge innate opportunity costs.