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Torug's Pact BUG

  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    I wish we could find a middle ground for enchanting builds. For most of the game's lifetime, damaging weapon enchantments have been totally irrelevant. The cooldown's too high on its own to have a noticable impact on dps, and even if you make a dedicated build for it, the effect is 100% useless in AoE situations, which is a considerable amount in all endgame PvE content.

    Against all odds, I'm playing a Torug's Pact build on live on my magDK, and the only upside to other builds is that it helps a bit with sustain.

    If the supposedly intended 1.4 second cooldown is implemented, there is little reason to use Torug's if you're also using Infused. Your enchant will still only proc every other attack whether it's 1.4 or 2 seconds, and the +30% increase to enchantment potency is better replaced with a set like Julianos or Silks of the Sun that boost your overall damage.

    What I mean to say is:
    If the intended cooldown for dedicated enchanter builds is supposed to be 1 second, the enchantment damage needs to be lowered, e.g. by removing the damage bonus from Torug's Pact and Infused.
    If the intended cooldown for dedicated enchanter builds is supposed to be 2 seconds, Torug's Pact needs to offer something else, e.g. increase the damage bonus to +50% and remove the cooldown component.

    Of course, the original patch notes say that the cooldown buff is supposed to be multiplicative, but I wouldn't put it past them to not really know what that means, so I'm hesitant to claim what ZOS' intent is. But they need to clean this up one way or another.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.
    Edited by Derra on August 2, 2017 6:02AM
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    This is hilarious. In a bad way. I tested it on the PTS yesterday. I deliberately used a non optimal setup to see how this might go for a user who just hears that Torugs is the new hot kid in town but has no clue about about builds and rotations. I used 5 Torugs and 6 necro (botched the pieces to craft) with an infused lightning front and an oblivion glyph (wanted to see how much it would hit for) and an infused fire destro with a SD glyph back bar. No lover but mage mundus.

    I started the parse, missed most of my DoTs constantly, so that almost always only 1 DoT was active. In essence you can reach 17k just with a ground DoT and heavy and light attacks and having absolutely no clue what you're doing.

    And that doesn't even cover the 3-4K oblivion ticks every 0.8 seconds that will completely destroy PvP. If this is intended... I can't believe it.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • Draqone
    Draqone
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    If the supposedly intended 1.4 second cooldown is implemented, there is little reason to use Torug's if you're also using Infused.

    @Faulgor
    Not true.

    Since your weapon skills (Wall of elements, Touch) can proc an enchant as well it's possible to have more than 1 proc every second. That means that a difference between 1.4 and 2 seconds is significant, with 1.4 seconds being about 40% more DPS from enchants.

    This is also why people are able to reach 70+ enchant procs in 50 seconds.
    ESO Balance:
    “All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”
  • Fecius
    Fecius
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    Yay! Now you don’t need to go vMA, you don’t need to pass Trials, you don’t need those “top” PvE sets! You just go to a craft station, pick up a cool style and craft a “brand new OP set”. Mix it with saleable and gettable in Deshaan Mother Sorrow and you are TOP PvE DPS EVAR!

    P.S.: I don’t believe in ZOS for more than a year. If you won’t expect from them anything good, you will not be disappointed. Just use all you can and enjoy the game as it is! As one of the in game combat tip sais “EXPLOIT NOW!”

    >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:)
    - Looking for Progress PvE Guild!
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  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Draqone wrote: »
    Faulgor wrote: »
    If the supposedly intended 1.4 second cooldown is implemented, there is little reason to use Torug's if you're also using Infused.

    @Faulgor
    Not true.

    Since your weapon skills (Wall of elements, Touch) can proc an enchant as well it's possible to have more than 1 proc every second. That means that a difference between 1.4 and 2 seconds is significant, with 1.4 seconds being about 40% more DPS from enchants.

    This is also why people are able to reach 70+ enchant procs in 50 seconds.

    I see.

    If that's the case maybe we should rather discuss what exact cooldown would be appropriate. It might be more feasible to keep the "bug" (i.e. additive rather than multiplicative cooldown reduction) and simply lower the value on Torug's and/or Infused. If Torug's bonus was lowered to 15% from 30%, we'd end up with 50%+15% = 65% cooldown reduction, which equals 1.4 seconds. The downside is obviously that Torug's on its own without Infused becomes less valuable. Maybe it's Infused that is too strong ...?
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Kram8ion
    Kram8ion
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    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant
    ps4eu
    Kramm stam man kittyblade

  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    Have You tested it on PTS ? No. Then You dont have opinion about that subject You just know it's not overperforming on live server yet You comment opinions of people who tested that on PTS...
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Wouldn't be surprised if this was working as intended to be honest. If this was a stamina set it would've been nerfed/fixed immediately.

    Tbh only thing that makes it "magicka" set is 1 spell dmg bonus others are neutral. You can ctraft it in medium and easily wear on stam character. Belive me it outperforms many stamina sets.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    if this isn't fixed when this update goes live I'm exploiting the *** outta it.

    Can't deny your honesty go for it

    It's been raised soooo hard. If ZoS ignore this one and go live with it, it's on them.

    Yeah... People who was banned for using Savior's Hide when it was bugged would have different opinions :smile:
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Kram8ion wrote: »
    God forbid there's a counter for sorcs :o

    If that counter is based on abusing bug then it's similar to lightning/resto shieldbreaker heavy attack exploit. Yes an EXPLOIT.
  • Kram8ion
    Kram8ion
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    Have You tested it on PTS ? No. Then You dont have opinion about that subject You just know it's not overperforming on live server yet You comment opinions of people who tested that on PTS...

    Thanks for reminding me about my comment ban on pts I wasn't aware of the rules, you'd make the forum police proud I'm sure. Maybe it should be password protected to stop unruly comments from rouge posters that struggle with math
    ps4eu
    Kramm stam man kittyblade

  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    if this isn't fixed when this update goes live I'm exploiting the *** outta it.

    Can't deny your honesty go for it

    It's been raised soooo hard. If ZoS ignore this one and go live with it, it's on them.

    Yeah... People who was banned for using Savior's Hide when it was bugged would have different opinions :smile:

    So you're saying people were banned for using bugged item sets that ZOS puts in the game? How is anyone able to break the rules just by using items within the game? Sounds lika a BS story to me..
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    if this isn't fixed when this update goes live I'm exploiting the *** outta it.

    Can't deny your honesty go for it

    It's been raised soooo hard. If ZoS ignore this one and go live with it, it's on them.

    Yeah... People who was banned for using Savior's Hide when it was bugged would have different opinions :smile:

    So you're saying people were banned for using bugged item sets that ZOS puts in the game? How is anyone able to break the rules just by using items within the game? Sounds lika a BS story to me..

    Well this set should give additional 150 wep dmg when You're in WW form and instead was giving ....15000 wep dmg. You can imagine the rest :wink:
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.

    So if I get this straight: The first issue is how Torug´s set works (being additive), and the 2nd part is about the infused trait being somewhat bugged/overperforming?
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

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    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
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  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.

    So if I get this straight: The first issue is how Torug´s set works (being additive), and the 2nd part is about the infused trait being somewhat bugged/overperforming?

    No. First part is about how this bug is working and how it should work in details with math calculations and second part is about what issues that incorrect implementation causing and which mechanics abusing. You have not only chance to deal almost 2x more dmg with enchats but also 2x more chance to proc status effects and additional buffs when it's additive instead multiplicative. I just wanted to explain in 2nd part why it's not just oblivion dmg enchant that is issue like some people think.
  • Kram8ion
    Kram8ion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.
    Yeah still too mathy for me will it kill sorcs?
    ps4eu
    Kramm stam man kittyblade

  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.
    Yeah still too mathy for me will it kill sorcs?

    It'll kill using brain like did with You. If You dont know what people are talking about here and cant/dont want to understand the issue then sorry but what the point for You to even comment anything ?

    Btw it'll make sorc stronger :smile:
  • Kram8ion
    Kram8ion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Kram8ion wrote: »
    I've been wearing this set for about a month and it's certainly not op and won't be next patch so much fear mongering if you can stack shields and proccs and other stuff why not enchants
    Do you struggle with maths?

    No struggling here just actual practice not speculation. Hell im not even denying alcast video but I'm not as skilled as him and I'm guessing your probably not either

    Problem is You have no idea what is the thread subject and by that You miss the point entirely. You're talking about running with Torugs on live server and thread is about changes to the set added on PTS and fact there is a bug in implementation of those changes that makes builds that overperform.
    I understand the thread subject fine it's the over performance opinion that's hard to swallow sometimes

    When something beats every alternative available basically performing over the alternatives - what´s the term you´d suggest instead of overperforming?

    Also what´s so hard to grasp that the set is currently not showing the from ZOS intended behavior of applying bonuses multiplicatively with infused trait but instead being additive?
    It´s clear as bright day that the set does not do what zos intended it to do.

    Agreed when something beats "every alternative" is over performing, easy to grasp if it's true
    What hard to grasp is the multiplicitive application maybe you could explain it for all.
    Fire ,frost,shock,magic have counters oblivion doesn't, maybe just maybe it's oblivion used in conjunction with infused and turogs that's a deadly combination
    The elephant in the room is oblivion enchant

    Aaah so You dont know what the thread is about...
    Ok let me explain difference between additive and multiplicative stacking because I see You missed main post...
    You have 2 bonuses 50% and 30% we'll be talking about enchants that have 4 secodns cooldown.

    ADDITIVE
    0,5+0,3=0,8
    1-0,8=0,2
    0,2*4= 0,8 sec

    MULTIPLICATIVE
    (1-0,5)*(1-0,3)=0,35
    4*0,35= 1,4 sec

    So as You can see there is 0,6 sec difference between multiplicative and additive formula , which is a LOT. You get almost 2x more effective enchants with additive formula then with multiplicative.

    Further You need to know 1 thing. Enchants have base 20% chance to proc status effect. Shock/Flame/Frost enchants have 40% chhance to proc status effect on destro staff.You can get 16k DPS just from shock/flame dmg enchatns on main/back bar. You can apply diseased statuss effects constantly (50% hp regen cut and major Defile which is additional 30% hp regen cut and 30% heling debuff) , concussed status effect (apply Minor Vulnerability which is 8% more dmg on target and if target stand in lightning bloacakde apply off ballance) , magic dmg/resource return enchant will be similar to having 1k regen etc...

    If You think we're just talking about oblivion dmg enchant and this is just a problem you're wrong. Basicly each dmg enchant is a problem with this bug.
    Yeah still too mathy for me will it kill sorcs?

    It'll kill using brain like did with You. If You dont know what people are talking about here and cant/dont want to understand the issue then sorry but what the point for You to even comment anything ?

    Btw it'll make sorc stronger :smile:

    Well that's not making it easy to understand
    ps4eu
    Kramm stam man kittyblade

  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Kram8ion

    It will kill you on whatever class you run because it's 2-3k damage every 0.8 seconds which you cannot mitigate whatsoever. On top of the existing damage. Still too much math or can you just drop your sorc hate and use your brain now?
    Edited by Feanor on August 2, 2017 10:27AM
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • tunepunk
    tunepunk
    ✭✭✭✭
    Torug's will add a lot of single target damage that's it. It focuses a lot of damage to one target doing nothing to other targets like in an AOE situation.

    This set as well as infused will increase damage to 1 target at at time, every time it procs. If you do the same test on a group of enemies it's not that powerful anymore, as it will only hit one of the enemies. You can kill a group of enemies a lot faster with other sets.

    Yes it's a good set for improving your single target damage, but it's not going to make any of your area skills better in a AOE situation, as it only can hit one enemy at the time. The more adds - the less effective it gets.
    Edited by tunepunk on August 2, 2017 10:54AM
  • BohnT
    BohnT
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    tunepunk wrote: »
    Torug's will add a lot of single target damage that's it. It focuses a lot of damage to one target doing nothing to other targets like in an AOE situation.

    This set as well as infused will increase damage to 1 target at at time, every time it procs. If you do the same test on a group of enemies it's not that powerful anymore, as it will only hit one of the enemies.

    Yes it's a good set for improving your single target damage, but it's not going to make any of your area skills better in a AOE situation, as it only can hit one enemy at the time.

    It is still completely overperforming, imagine playing pvp and 2 ppl with the torug setup start focusing you, you'll be dead in no time no matter what you do.
    Also the AoE dps of most classes isn't much lower with the torug setup.
    Imagine a full raid in pve with the setup.
    9 dds which can simply light attack some mechanic related enemies for 25k damage every .8 seconds. That is 225k damage in less than one second with no resource drain.
    225k group dps is crazy high for many guilds out there, many will never achive it and with torug they can have it single target with only spamming light attacks.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Kram8ion

    It will kill you on whatever class you run because it's 2-3k damage every 0.8 seconds which you cannot mitigate whatsoever. On top of the existing damage. Still too much math or can you just drop your sorc hate and use your brain now?

    If the set goes live, magNB will be the top class in PvP. They will be the only class that can mitigate somehow the damage with cloak and they can use it to burst opponents and then reposition and repeat.
    Because I can!
  • Biro123
    Biro123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Do any of the glyphs stack? I mean they wouldn't without torugs/infused due to the cooldown - but would they with? I'm thinking along the lines of :

    Crushing (reduce targets armour for 5 seconds)

    Hardening (gain damage shield for 5 seconds)

    Rage/Weakening (Increase/Reduce spell/wpn dmg for 5 seconds)

    Also does Torugs/Infused affect poisons too - or only enchants?
    Edited by Biro123 on August 2, 2017 10:58AM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Kram8ion

    It will kill you on whatever class you run because it's 2-3k damage every 0.8 seconds which you cannot mitigate whatsoever. On top of the existing damage. Still too much math or can you just drop your sorc hate and use your brain now?

    The class that´ll die slowest to this will be a magblade with insanely high shields because they´ll spread dmg between hp and shield while also having excellent passive hots.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Kram8ion

    It will kill you on whatever class you run because it's 2-3k damage every 0.8 seconds which you cannot mitigate whatsoever. On top of the existing damage. Still too much math or can you just drop your sorc hate and use your brain now?

    The class that´ll die slowest to this will be a magblade with insanely high shields because they´ll spread dmg between hp and shield while also having excellent passive hots.

    Yeah, but Sorc OP, you know xD
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • tunepunk
    tunepunk
    ✭✭✭✭
    If a glyph of hardening proceed just as often and was could mitigate the damage from someone using torug's + infused damage glyphs it would equal out, but then again everyone would be running torugs+infused +hardening on their back bar, and survive the increased incoming damage.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    tunepunk wrote: »
    If a glyph of hardening proceed just as often and was could mitigate the damage from someone using torug's + infused damage glyphs it would equal out, but then again everyone would be running torugs+infused +hardening on their back bar, and survive the increased incoming damage.

    You cannot mitigate oblivion damage :smile:
    Because I can!
  • tunepunk
    tunepunk
    ✭✭✭✭
    As a nerf They could have weapon procs drain resources as well. People would be more reluctant to use them, and go out resources more quickly if it procced too often.
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