Does ZoS actually want our input?

Tyrobag

With each PTS cycle it feels like ZoS removes more and more stuff from testing. Am I the only one starting to feel like they don't actually want us to test the game? They haven't put the new houses in, Templates cant craft, Templates still don't have all gear sets, templates don't have collectibles to test. On top of this they've also decided to wait until the last pts patch to add in gameplay changes, meaning that they won't be able to get much feedback on them. And when we do give feed back, 80% of it is completely ignored anyway. If they don't want people to be able to test things, why have a PTS at all?

Franieck

I feel the same way. This PTS has been completely useless for me so far.

UppGRAYxDD

By Input you mean Money, tears, and lost hope right?

josiahva

Imagine for a minute: You work at ZoS and in a position to influence the direction of the game. You decide that you want to see a buff to say....Bone Shield(as a random example). So you buff it. The community cries out about this buff(or a small percentage do anyway) claiming this will make tanks in Cyrodiil even tougher etc etc. Your intention was to buff it for PvP because too many tanks were dying to say...the warrior in Hel Ra(remember this is just a random example). Who is right in this situation? Are you right to buff Bone Shield? Or is the small percentage of those who cry out against it?

This is exactly the problem. There is a small(ish) development team who decide the direction of the game. At what percentage does the player base desires overwhelm those of the development team? How do you tell if more people are in favor or against these changes? Which side has more weight?

I have been playing RPGs for almost 30 years now, from the original D&D to MTG, to UO, and eventually to this game. In the end the developers of the game always think they know best and run roughshod over the player base of said game. The progression ALWAYS caters to less skilled players and eventually it reaches the lowest common denominator and the playerbase moves on to another game.

Sandman929

josiahva wrote: »

Imagine for a minute: You work at ZoS and in a position to influence the direction of the game. You decide that you want to see a buff to say....Bone Shield(as a random example). So you buff it. The community cries out about this buff(or a small percentage do anyway) claiming this will make tanks in Cyrodiil even tougher etc etc. Your intention was to buff it for PvP because too many tanks were dying to say...the warrior in Hel Ra(remember this is just a random example). Who is right in this situation? Are you right to buff Bone Shield? Or is the small percentage of those who cry out against it?

This is exactly the problem. There is a small(ish) development team who decide the direction of the game. At what percentage does the player base desires overwhelm those of the development team? How do you tell if more people are in favor or against these changes? Which side has more weight?

I have been playing RPGs for almost 30 years now, from the original D&D to MTG, to UO, and eventually to this game. In the end the developers of the game always think they know best and run roughshod over the player base of said game. The progression ALWAYS caters to less skilled players and eventually it reaches the lowest common denominator and the playerbase moves on to another game.

I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but the analogy isn't on point. This is more like a case where the developer decides to go ahead and buff Bone Shield, and that results in several other abilities not working right. Something that could be caught if Combat Balance changes weren't implemented in the last week of testing and the development team spent less time on making pretty baubles to sell in the store.
The other part of the complaint would involve developers responding to reported bugs caused by the Bone Shield buff...which as we've seen, also often isn't the case.

josiahva

Sandman929 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Imagine for a minute: You work at ZoS and in a position to influence the direction of the game. You decide that you want to see a buff to say....Bone Shield(as a random example). So you buff it. The community cries out about this buff(or a small percentage do anyway) claiming this will make tanks in Cyrodiil even tougher etc etc. Your intention was to buff it for PvP because too many tanks were dying to say...the warrior in Hel Ra(remember this is just a random example). Who is right in this situation? Are you right to buff Bone Shield? Or is the small percentage of those who cry out against it?

This is exactly the problem. There is a small(ish) development team who decide the direction of the game. At what percentage does the player base desires overwhelm those of the development team? How do you tell if more people are in favor or against these changes? Which side has more weight?

I have been playing RPGs for almost 30 years now, from the original D&D to MTG, to UO, and eventually to this game. In the end the developers of the game always think they know best and run roughshod over the player base of said game. The progression ALWAYS caters to less skilled players and eventually it reaches the lowest common denominator and the playerbase moves on to another game.

I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but the analogy isn't on point. This is more like a case where the developer decides to go ahead and buff Bone Shield, and that results in several other abilities not working right. Something that could be caught if Combat Balance changes weren't implemented in the last week of testing and the development team spent less time on making pretty baubles to sell in the store.
The other part of the complaint would involve developers responding to reported bugs caused by the Bone Shield buff...which as we've seen, also often isn't the case.

True enough, I went off on a tangent there. I will agree that they are far more interested in pushing through on schedule than making a finished product.

Jitterbug

Yes.

Mojmir

only if your praising and ass-kissing

Darlgon

Truth be told? Yes, they want players input. It makes players feel like part of the process. Kinda like how constituents can contact their congressman.

However, just as they can/usually do ignore one persons opinion, ZoS has their own view of development and will go their own way.

Vercingetorix

The fact that they are choosing to release combat changes in the LAST week of PTS speaks volumes...

Tr4gicDe4th

That moment you think this thread will be closed down because it sounds like baiting xD

bebynnag

does zos want input from players?

yes IF

they are a youtube/twich personality
a roleplayer
somebody who spends more time on the forums than they do actually playing the game
and extremley wealthy casual player who only logs on to buy things from the cash shop

no IF

you play on console

Strider_Roshin

I don't think they ignore our feedback, but I do believe that they rarely consider it unless we say something that reinforces what they were already thinking.

In the beginning we were the voice that mattered. Their game was crap, and so they brought in guilds, spoke actively with the community in order to save their game. Well because of our feedback it was salvaged. And now our feedback isn't as valuable to them as it once was, and because the developers are acting more independently it's pissing off a lot of its consumers, long timers are leaving, and the 'fun' factor in this game is declining.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Darlgon wrote: »

Truth be told? Yes, they want players input. It makes players feel like part of the process. Kinda like how constituents can contact their congressman.

However, just as they can/usually do ignore the community's opinion, ZoS only listens to a select group of streamers and guild leaders.

FTFY

No really, this is how it seems. When popular streamers complains about something, it's generally fixed. Wouldn't want to look bad on Twitch. Also, I know they solicit input from and actually listen to guild masters from "significant" guilds. What's makes a guild important enough to matter is unknown.

GeorgeBlack

Speak your mind. If changes happen good. If they don't who cares. You have been playing these short of games for years. It's not the end of the world if the devs don't hear you out.
Btw... you could all become game developers, but you chose to be gamers. So get off your high horses.

QuebraRegra

they want your money... that is the only way to have your "voice" heard.

idk

Tyrobag wrote: »

With each PTS cycle it feels like ZoS removes more and more stuff from testing. Am I the only one starting to feel like they don't actually want us to test the game? They haven't put the new houses in, Templates cant craft, Templates still don't have all gear sets, templates don't have collectibles to test. On top of this they've also decided to wait until the last pts patch to add in gameplay changes, meaning that they won't be able to get much feedback on them. And when we do give feed back, 80% of it is completely ignored anyway. If they don't want people to be able to test things, why have a PTS at all?

What has Zos removed from testing on the current PTS. Template character are not relevant since we have our characters on a be pts for at least 2 weeks for testing crafting ans such.

Yes, Zos oils improve the templates but that's not removing something from testing.

Tyrobag

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

With each PTS cycle it feels like ZoS removes more and more stuff from testing. Am I the only one starting to feel like they don't actually want us to test the game? They haven't put the new houses in, Templates cant craft, Templates still don't have all gear sets, templates don't have collectibles to test. On top of this they've also decided to wait until the last pts patch to add in gameplay changes, meaning that they won't be able to get much feedback on them. And when we do give feed back, 80% of it is completely ignored anyway. If they don't want people to be able to test things, why have a PTS at all?

What has Zos removed from testing on the current PTS. Template character are not relevant since we have our characters on a be pts for at least 2 weeks for testing crafting ans such.

Yes, Zos oils improve the templates but that's not removing something from testing.

Improve? last week we had full crafting on templates, this week we don't. That is the definition of removal.