MDK execute alternative

Savos_Saren · July 2017

So, I'm trying to theorycraft a way that ZoS could make mDKs an "execute" without making something that's OP. I just want to level the playing field. Here's my suggestion:

Make a heavy armor set (that requires SnB) to increase flame damage done against a target under 25% health... or perhaps an AOE for enemies within 10 meters. That way, it's viable for "group benefit" (since the meta for a "tank" in ESO is support)

Yes, of course other classes can use it... but at least it'll be something helpful in PVP and PVE. My logic is this: if you're wearing heavy armor AND required to use a SnB- you won't get the damage benefit from dual swords/daggers. But... at least you'll have an execute that won't be too OP. Here's my humble set suggestion:

Armor of the Valkyn's Bane (heavy armor set)
(2) 1064 Max Health
(3) 967 Max Magicka
(4) 967 Max Stamina
(5) While equipped with a Sword and Shield, your flame damage abilities deal 200% more damage to enemies within 10 meters under 25% health.

I got my flame % from the average of the 4 other class executes (and set it at the lowest execute percentage). Radiant is 330, Impale is 300, Feral Guardian is 100%, and Mage's Wrath is hard to calculate- but from the ability + the passive, I think it comes out to about 300%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Please let me know if you think this is a good idea or if it could be tweaked. I'm trying to make it so that it's viable for tanks in PVE and PVP... without being too OP. And remember: any class has access to this set of armor. Thanks!

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · July 2017

Have the undodgeable DK leap already, would be to op.

Plus the way you worded that set means it would include destro ulti....

sly007 · July 2017

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

Savos_Saren · July 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Have the undodgeable DK leap already, would be to op.

Plus the way you worded that set means it would include destro ulti....

The DK leap doesn't work as it is... but I don't think it'd be too OP. The Destro Ulti requires you to have a destroy staff... not a SnB... so, the Destro Ulti wouldn't work for the set, savvy?

Damn, bud. I just realized that, even though I mentioned it in the description, I didn't put the requirement of SnB in the set. I'll edit the OP to show it. Thanks!

DeadlyRecluse · July 2017

jaburns wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Have the undodgeable DK leap already, would be to op.

Plus the way you worded that set means it would include destro ulti....

The DK leap doesn't work as it is... but I don't think it'd be too OP. The Destro Ulti requires you to have a destroy staff... not a SnB... so, the Destro Ulti wouldn't work for the set, savvy?

Damn, bud. I just realized that, even though I mentioned it in the description, I didn't put the requirement of SnB in the set. I'll edit the OP to show it. Thanks!

Backbar destro, barswap to sword and board. Would still buff destro ult, as written.

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

jaburns wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Have the undodgeable DK leap already, would be to op.

Plus the way you worded that set means it would include destro ulti....

The DK leap doesn't work as it is... but I don't think it'd be too OP. The Destro Ulti requires you to have a destroy staff... not a SnB... so, the Destro Ulti wouldn't work for the set, savvy?

Damn, bud. I just realized that, even though I mentioned it in the description, I didn't put the requirement of SnB in the set. I'll edit the OP to show it. Thanks!

Cast destro ult on back bar, switch to SnB front bar.

Also, leap is getting fixed next update

Savos_Saren · July 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're kidding, right? Almost every ability an mDK does is a DoT... and purge-able.

AhPook_Is_Here · July 2017

I wouldn't mind seeing whip scale up on lower health targets, but that would likely be too good. MDKs already have decent burst once you know how to time your attacks.

I don't like your idea much because "execute" is a dps concept and you tie it to heavy armor and tanking weapon set, in my mind that doesn't make sense, you'd want it as part of the dks dps rotation which is already 2 crowded bars. It would need to be built into an existing non-dot ability and that really just leaves whip.

Savos_Saren · July 2017

Destyran wrote: »

show previous quotes

jaburns wrote: »

So, I'm trying to theorycraft a way that ZoS could make mDKs an "execute" without making something that's OP. I just want to level the playing field. Here's my suggestion:

Make a heavy armor set (that requires SnB) to increase flame damage done against a target under 25% health... or perhaps an AOE for enemies within 10 meters. That way, it's viable for "group benefit" (since the meta for a "tank" in ESO is support)

Yes, of course other classes can use it... but at least it'll be something helpful in PVP and PVE. My logic is this: if you're wearing heavy armor AND required to use a SnB- you won't get the damage benefit from dual swords/daggers. But... at least you'll have an execute that won't be too OP. Here's my humble set suggestion:

Armor of the Valkyn's Bane (heavy armor set)
(2) 1064 Max Health
(3) 967 Max Magicka
(4) 967 Max Stamina
(5) While equipped with a Sword and Shield, your flame damage abilities deal 200% more damage to enemies within 10 meters under 25% health.

I got my flame % from the average of the 4 other class executes (and set it at the lowest execute percentage). Radiant is 330, Impale is 300, Feral Guardian is 100%, and Mage's Wrath is hard to calculate- but from the ability + the passive, I think it comes out to about 300%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Please let me know if you think this is a good idea or if it could be tweaked. I'm trying to make it so that it's viable for tanks in PVE and PVP... without being too OP. And remember: any class has access to this set of armor. Thanks!

I do both PVP and PVE- so, I try to make suggestions that help the whole game. I'm just a lowly CP 878- please forgive me.

[Edited out removed quote]

dsalter · July 2017

just make it so if a magicka DK's FIRE (not poison) ability is purged from an enemy they also combust dealing an instant 2k damage to health, magicka and stamina.
there, now it'll mostly affect players, has a new tool no other class has, wont buff stam dk's and the dots wont be shrugged anymore

Ch4mpTW · July 2017

jaburns wrote: »

show previous quotes

Destyran wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

So, I'm trying to theorycraft a way that ZoS could make mDKs an "execute" without making something that's OP. I just want to level the playing field. Here's my suggestion:

Make a heavy armor set (that requires SnB) to increase flame damage done against a target under 25% health... or perhaps an AOE for enemies within 10 meters. That way, it's viable for "group benefit" (since the meta for a "tank" in ESO is support)

Yes, of course other classes can use it... but at least it'll be something helpful in PVP and PVE. My logic is this: if you're wearing heavy armor AND required to use a SnB- you won't get the damage benefit from dual swords/daggers. But... at least you'll have an execute that won't be too OP. Here's my humble set suggestion:

Armor of the Valkyn's Bane (heavy armor set)
(2) 1064 Max Health
(3) 967 Max Magicka
(4) 967 Max Stamina
(5) While equipped with a Sword and Shield, your flame damage abilities deal 200% more damage to enemies within 10 meters under 25% health.

I got my flame % from the average of the 4 other class executes (and set it at the lowest execute percentage). Radiant is 330, Impale is 300, Feral Guardian is 100%, and Mage's Wrath is hard to calculate- but from the ability + the passive, I think it comes out to about 300%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Please let me know if you think this is a good idea or if it could be tweaked. I'm trying to make it so that it's viable for tanks in PVE and PVP... without being too OP. And remember: any class has access to this set of armor. Thanks!

I do both PVP and PVE- so, I try to make suggestions that help the whole game. I'm just a lowly CP 878- please forgive me.

[Edited for removed quote]

No worries, OP. I know them feels. I PvP for the most part with a MagDK, and it's rough. Very rough. People think that because we have access to DOT's that we can stack, and numerous forms of CC spam that we are some type of overpowered class. When in fact, it's far from the the truth. You pretty much need to be a vampire, if you want mobility. And not having an execute means that fights drag on way more than they are supposed to. I mean, Sorcs get to have not only a class-based form of an execute via an ability, but even a passive execute with implosion. Meanwhile DK's get nada. Yet somehow people feel the need to express how "easy" it is to play a MagDK and be successful. Lol.

Savos_Saren · July 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

show previous quotes

jaburns wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

So, I'm trying to theorycraft a way that ZoS could make mDKs an "execute" without making something that's OP. I just want to level the playing field. Here's my suggestion:

Make a heavy armor set (that requires SnB) to increase flame damage done against a target under 25% health... or perhaps an AOE for enemies within 10 meters. That way, it's viable for "group benefit" (since the meta for a "tank" in ESO is support)

Yes, of course other classes can use it... but at least it'll be something helpful in PVP and PVE. My logic is this: if you're wearing heavy armor AND required to use a SnB- you won't get the damage benefit from dual swords/daggers. But... at least you'll have an execute that won't be too OP. Here's my humble set suggestion:

Armor of the Valkyn's Bane (heavy armor set)
(2) 1064 Max Health
(3) 967 Max Magicka
(4) 967 Max Stamina
(5) While equipped with a Sword and Shield, your flame damage abilities deal 200% more damage to enemies within 10 meters under 25% health.

I got my flame % from the average of the 4 other class executes (and set it at the lowest execute percentage). Radiant is 330, Impale is 300, Feral Guardian is 100%, and Mage's Wrath is hard to calculate- but from the ability + the passive, I think it comes out to about 300%. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Please let me know if you think this is a good idea or if it could be tweaked. I'm trying to make it so that it's viable for tanks in PVE and PVP... without being too OP. And remember: any class has access to this set of armor. Thanks!

Loom im gonna go ahead and say it. You must be bad at pvp. This set is soo stupid op

You are both insightful and helpful. Thanks, bud! You're the type that makes these forums work! /s

I do both PVP and PVE- so, I try to make suggestions that help the whole game. I'm just a lowly CP 878- please forgive me.

No worries, OP. I know them feels. I PvP for the most part with a MagDK, and it's rough. Very rough. People think that because we have access to DOT's that we can stack, and numerous forms of CC spam that we are some type of overpowered class. When in fact, it's far from the the truth. You pretty much need to be a vampire, if you want mobility. And not having an execute means that fights drag on way more than they are supposed to. I mean, Sorcs get to have not only a class-based form of an execute via an ability, but even a passive execute with implosion. Meanwhile DK's get nada. Yet somehow people feel the need to express how "easy" it is to play a MagDK and be successful. Lol.

@Ch4mpTW

On top of that: let's play a game. Name one class build mag/stam of any class that is COMPLETELY ineligible for a common ability that everyone else has.

mDK- absolutely NO main resource-based execute.

...any other class that is restricted to some common ability? sDK? mTemp? sTemp? mNB? sNB? mSorc? sSorc? mWard? sWard?

sly007 · July 2017

Mag dk does not need an execute. It already perform very well. An execute would put it over the top in pve and pvp.

FloppyTouch · July 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Mag dk does not need an execute. It already perform very well. An execute would put it over the top in pve and pvp.

Yh bc then we could kill things a lot easier like the other classes that's not fair

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2017

Lol at level playing field in a MMO.

DRXHarbinger · July 2017

Why on earth make it a S&B set execute...I mean if you equipped a proper set up you'd do more damage and not need to worry about hitting like a wet noodle? Basically you're asking to be tanky as AND have the power of a light armor and staff build...right. ..riiiiiight. proper magdks don't roll like this. Heavy armor S&B builds are so a thing of the past. Time to evolve into year 3 of eso.

Passifest · July 2017

Give DKs implosion

Ch4mpTW · July 2017

Passifest wrote: »

Give DKs implosion

I would be fine with a passive execute. I mean, every single class has an execute. Sorcerers have 2. A skill and passive execute. Meanwhile DK's have nothing? Word? And that's balance? Lol. As is DK burst is atrocious, but damn. Give us something.

baratron · July 2017

I am super confused about why a Magicka Dragonknight would be wearing Heavy Armor and using 1-Hand and Shield. That sounds more like a Stamina DK to me. Wouldn't a Magicka DK be wearing Light Armor and using Destruction Staves? Mine uses Burning Spellweave as her main set along with an Inferno Staff on one bar and Lightning on the other. (She's mostly a Healer though, so I don't have a second proc set sorted out for her yet. Might get Silks of the Sun.)

And why would a Tank need an Execute anyway? Sure, you *can* be a Damage Dealer in Heavy Armor with 1-Hand and Shield, but your DPS is likely to be a lot lower than if you wore Medium Armor and Dual-Wielded.

I am just so confused!

NBrookus · July 2017

baratron wrote: »

I am super confused about why a Magicka Dragonknight would be wearing Heavy Armor and using 1-Hand and Shield. That sounds more like a Stamina DK to me. Wouldn't a Magicka DK be wearing Light Armor and using Destruction Staves? Mine uses Burning Spellweave as her main set along with an Inferno Staff on one bar and Lightning on the other. (She's mostly a Healer though, so I don't have a second proc set sorted out for her yet. Might get Silks of the Sun.)

And why would a Tank need an Execute anyway? Sure, you *can* be a Damage Dealer in Heavy Armor with 1-Hand and Shield, but your DPS is likely to be a lot lower than if you wore Medium Armor and Dual-Wielded.

I am just so confused!

Because the OP is talking about PvP. PvE magDk is fine.

In PvP, mobility and burst are king. mDK has neither -- lacking mobility, they have to be able to absorb a lot of damage, which limits damage potential. And we don't even have templar house. Shoot, our primary CC actually gives enemies a damage shield.

When people point out mDK problems, everyone just says "use leap" like you always have ult up. It's not Incap.

Buggy gap closer? Just use Leap!
Low burst? Use Leap!
No source of magicka regen? Rely on Leap! (Actually this one is legit by design.)
No execute? Use Leap!
Leap is bugged... um... it'll be fixed eventually. Right after loading screens in Cyro.

When streak was bugged, did everyone tell sorcs just to use Storm Atronach to solve the problem?

But sorry OP, I don't particularly like that set idea. It's really a zerg enabler; put your zerg destro monkey in this set + Elf Bane and it's perfect for a destro train. The benefits to the zerg far outweigh the use to a single player.

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

Drachenfier · July 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're joking, right? The life expectancy of a DoT in pvp is about 2 seconds, and that's being generous.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

In pvp?! The highest I've ever seen is 5-7k

Darlgon · July 2017

How about we make a passive in one of the lines that says: "If target falls below 15% health, the next tick of DoTs in this line takes all 15%."

josiahva · July 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

LOL, go play a magicka DK in PvP and tell us that again. They are pretty gimped in PvP, their ONLY saving grace is the fact that they have wings. No, Mag DK needs a CLASS execute...not some half-assed crutch in the form of an armor bonus. The skill I die to most often in PvP isnt some mag DK DoT...its the SORC execute...mages wrath, sometimes to the NIGHTBLADE execute, sometimes to the TEMPLAR execute. Do you see the theme here?

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

show previous quotes

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're joking, right? The life expectancy of a DoT in pvp is about 2 seconds, and that's being generous.

show previous quotes

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

In pvp?! The highest I've ever seen is 5-7k

You dont need execute in pvp you have a infinite cc that has no cool down its one of the reasons they are kings of 1v1.

If you struggling with magdk in pvp then it just isnt the class for you. L2p

Drachenfier · July 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

show previous quotes

Drachenfier wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're joking, right? The life expectancy of a DoT in pvp is about 2 seconds, and that's being generous.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

In pvp?! The highest I've ever seen is 5-7k

You dont need execute in pvp you have a infinite cc that has no cool down its one of the reasons they are kings of 1v1.

If you struggling with magdk in pvp then it just isnt the class for you. L2p

My main is a Templar, hence my replies. DK DoTs are a non factor, and lash does not hit as hard as some people like to claim. I don't need to L2P MDK.

Qbiken · July 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing whip scale up on lower health targets, but that would likely be too good. MDKs already have decent burst once you know how to time your attacks.

I don't like your idea much because "execute" is a dps concept and you tie it to heavy armor and tanking weapon set, in my mind that doesn't make sense, you'd want it as part of the dks dps rotation which is already 2 crowded bars. It would need to be built into an existing non-dot ability and that really just leaves whip.

Whip hits like a truck in PvE enviroment (I can easily get 35k+ whips with powerlash in some trials). A buff to whip like that would make them very overpowered in PvE.

DRXHarbinger · July 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

show previous quotes

Drachenfier wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're joking, right? The life expectancy of a DoT in pvp is about 2 seconds, and that's being generous.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

In pvp?! The highest I've ever seen is 5-7k

You dont need execute in pvp you have a infinite cc that has no cool down its one of the reasons they are kings of 1v1.

If you struggling with magdk in pvp then it just isnt the class for you. L2p

Exactly this, they do not need heavy armor (this is probably why 100's fail at playing it) or S&B it is such a bad set up and Dk's do not play well with it. All you need to do is use an Inferno and Light Armor, you have instant heals and immense CC's, literally just apply a few of them and step back a few meters and finish them off whilst they are stuck. it's really not hard.

And leap does work..I don't get all the hate over it, ferocious leap works perfectly fine.

Also these weak whip figures are from S&B players, you can very easily hit over this...Odd isn't it. everyone goes nuts for sharp weapons in PVP yet completely ignores the LA passives...just one trade off vs another that results in the same power output but gimps on the light and heavy attacks....

IcyDeadPeople · July 2017

No, heavy armor certainly does not need any kind of OP offensive set like this. HA still too strong compared to light and medium.

Make this a light armor set, add max magicka, spell crit and then it becomes interesting, but 200% damage would be broken. Something like 20-30% additional damage against low health targets (or perhaps vs off balance targets) is a bit more reasonable.

Skeough11 · July 2017

No

NBrookus · July 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

show previous quotes

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka so does not need an execute. It already pulls high dps without a execute in pve and kills players with ease with high dot pressure and undodgeable abilities. The only buff I can imagine that would not boost mdk in pve and help a little in PvP would be to exchange the shield from leap and make it a dot on target(s). The shield is a life saver though, and many dks love it. But the bottom line is i think mdk do not need an execute.

The armor set you mentioned would be used by destroy ulti and vicious death users. Imagine vicious death doing 60k instead of 20k after you get bombed. That's just one example.

You're joking, right? The life expectancy of a DoT in pvp is about 2 seconds, and that's being generous.

show previous quotes

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You must really be bad at magdk for feeling like you need a execute.

Mag dks arent missing execute because zos cant find a good way to implement it... they are missing one because it would make them OP as hell.

200% to flame damage abilities? Are you ok lol? My flame lashes do 25-27k fully buffed with war horn and spc and spell weave procc'd imagine with 200% extra damage.

No

In pvp?! The highest I've ever seen is 5-7k

He specified 25k-27k with full raid buffs -- 100% PVE.

I've hit 16k a few times. But I was squishy AF in that build and the targets were probably not wearing impen.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

You dont need execute in pvp you have a infinite cc that has no cool down its one of the reasons they are kings of 1v1.

Not any more we don't. Talons is now useless against permarollers. It was a reasonable nerf, though.

We only have one non-dot skill that can't be dodged now. Wait for it... it's Leap.