Are there any plans to add counterplay against Resource Poisons?

TheDoomsdayMonster

I ask this because at current, there is no defense to them and that's just not right in a game where the Devs say that they want to encourage "Counterplay Based Gameplay."

A few days ago I fought a guy (he was a Stamina Templar; I am a Magicka Templar) and he literally drained me of over 30k Magicka in about 4-5 secs...

I had full Magicka (over 36k), cast a single ability (Purifying Light), then he hits me with Dawnbreaker, starts to combo me, and by the time I got to my feet my Magicka bar was completely empty...I could cast nothing.

36k Magicka...one ability used...completely empty Magicka bar.


Thats not right @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert ...

There should be some way of protecting your Resources from this sort of thing...

What happened in that instance had nothing to do with my opponents skill or my ability to manage my Resources; all of that occurred because there is no counterplay to the Poisons...

The proc sets overperforming wasn't as bad as this; you can build a character to withstand the punishment proc sets could output, so atleast you could counter them given whats available in todays game. There is nothing in the current game that would allow me to prevent what I described above from happening to me...nothing.


So, are there any plans to add counterplay against Resource Poisons to this game?

Chilly-McFreeze

Resource Poisons increase your skill costs by 30%. No way you used up 36k on a skill that barely costs 1.9k magicka.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Resource Poisons increase your skill costs by 30%. No way you used up 36k on a skill that barely costs 1.9k magicka.

If only I had a video of it...

What I described in the OP is absolutely what happened...

When I was CC'ed by Dawnbreaker, my Magicka bar was nearly full; by the time I got back to my feet, my Magicka bar was completely empty...

It wasn't the cost Poison (I never got the opportunity to cast another ability after the 1st), it was one that leeched all of my Magicka very rapidly...

DeHei

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 10k Magicka or Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime (based on the highest ressource)

TheDoomsdayMonster

DeHei wrote: »

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 5k Magicka/Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime

Well if its a bug, its a bug that I've seen from various players over time...

This isn't the 1st time that's happened to me...

TheDoomsdayMonster

I can tell you this; every single time its happened, it was when fighting a Stamina build...

Chilly-McFreeze

Short question: does drain magicka poisons increase ice staff block costs?

TheDoomsdayMonster

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Short question: does drain magicka poisons increase ice staff block costs?

I have no clue; I don't and never have used an Ice Staff...

RoyJade

Poisons only boost the cost of your skills, as explained.

But sometime, your full resource bar just vanish. It's mostly happens when you take a huge load of damage and the game thing that you're dead. You're losing all your resources before your healthbar, and then die one or two seconds later.

Jaxaxo

If it was compeletely empty it's not bug, neither poisons. You were just dead before your game realizes that. Happens with lag or worse connection. I guess your stamina bar was empty too.

Edit. Or like @RoyJade said

DeHei

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 5k Magicka/Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime

Well if its a bug, its a bug that I've seen from various players over time...

This isn't the 1st time that's happened to me...

You should not using Molag Kenas, maybe nobody have told you that before.. increased costs you know

Vapirko

There's only one counterplay against cost poisons. Get them out of the game, completely and without exception.

TheDoomsdayMonster

RoyJade wrote: »

Poisons only boost the cost of your skills, as explained.

But sometime, your full resource bar just vanish. It's mostly happens when you take a huge load of damage and the game thing that you're dead. You're losing all your resources before your healthbar, and then die one or two seconds later.

Except that I've had this happen to me on several occasions without dying; my health bar has remained relatively strong, but my Magicka is completely depleted...

I've had people leech my Magicka Pool at crazy rates...

I've gone from half to empty in a sec or two (and I wasn't spamming abilities either)...

There is some Poison that's crazy strong that's being used...

Either that Poison needs a serious nerf, or the Devs need to give us a way to defend against it, because its total and complete BS that someone can attack me in a way that I have absolutely no defense to...

TheDoomsdayMonster

DeHei wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 5k Magicka/Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime

Well if its a bug, its a bug that I've seen from various players over time...

This isn't the 1st time that's happened to me...

You should not using Molag Kenas, maybe nobody have told you that before.. increased costs you know

Except, I don't use Molag Kena...

o_0

TheDoomsdayMonster

Jaxaxo wrote: »

If it was compeletely empty it's not bug, neither poisons. You were just dead before your game realizes that. Happens with lag or worse connection. I guess your stamina bar was empty too.

Edit. Or like @RoyJade said

Once again, I've had this exact thing happen to me before, but lived...

I lived on the occasion described in the OP btw...

When I got to my feet, I was still alive; I just didn't have any Magicka...

RoyJade

If you took a heal or something like that, the game can consider that you died when you actually haven't. It can happen too.

If it's something else, it's a bug.

SodanTok

On unreleated (or is it) note, when did special ballistae (like lightning) stopped draining resources. People here acting like nothing in this game drains resources, so did I miss some patch note?

TheDoomsdayMonster

RoyJade wrote: »

If you took a heal or something like that, the game can consider that you died when you actually haven't. It can happen too.

If it's something else, it's a bug.

Are you sure about that?

I've fought opponents where, seemingly, every single time they attack me, significant chunks of my Magicka Pool are just vanishing...

And at rates far greater than what you see with what Lightning based attacks do...


Anyway, I fully contend that we need to have some defense against having our Resources attacked by Poisons...

It goes completely against the idea of "Counterplay Based Gameplay" to have a mechanic in the game that you cant defend yourself from...

Its that simple...

TheDoomsdayMonster

SodanTok wrote: »

On unreleated (or is it) note, when did special ballistae (like lightning) stopped draining resources. People here acting like nothing in this game drains resources, so did I miss some patch note?

I'm not acting like nothing drains resources...

What I am complaining about is having my Resources drained at rates that no one could possibly counter...

That is a legit complaint...

cschwingeb14_ESO

As a Templar, you already have the best counter play to resource poisons: Ritual. ZoS should change purge to be more accessible to the rest of the classes.

What happened to you sounds like lag-death, and has nothing to do with resource poisons

Taleof2Cities

There is counterplay already in the game as poisons are definitely purgeable ... and it's still a surprise to me that many players don't know that.

But, players (not sure if the OP is one of them) think they can't afford a skill slot for Purge ... and would rather complain in the forums than put it on their back bar.

Purge isn't a Templar skill. It's in the Alliance War section which means it's available to every class. If you're in a PvP raid, your healers will likely be running it for you ... my healer does.

But, if you don't have a healer running it, you can still slot it yourself. For non-healer roles, Efficient Purge works great due to the decreased cost ... which is especially nice in this post-Morrowind patch that puts a premium on one's own resource pools.

By the way, purge is also a good counter for Templars that spam Radiant Destruction.

TL;DR - Slot Purge on your back bar and stop whining ...

Sanctum74

Purge lol, obviously your not seeing the whole picture. It's not just about increase cost poisons, there is also magic drain poisons and if they are named differently then they will stack. There is also magic drain skills and cp which reduces your regeneration.

So you can have 30% increased cost making your purge cost over 7000 magick while at the same time having your magick drained by up to 4000 in that same 10 second poison proc. So thats 11000 magic lost in 10 seconds and you havnt even casted any buffs, heals, or damage skills. Not to mention your regen is reduced so your barely getting any magic back if any.

So what was that counter you were talking about XD

IxskullzxI

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is counterplay already in the game as poisons are definitely purgeable ... and it's still a surprise to me that many players don't know that.

But, players (not sure if the OP is one of them) think they can't afford a skill slot for Purge ... and would rather complain in the forums than put it on their back bar.

Purge isn't a Templar skill. It's in the Alliance War section which means it's available to every class. If you're in a PvP raid, your healers will likely be running it for you ... my healer does.

But, if you don't have a healer running it, you can still slot it yourself. For non-healer roles, Efficient Purge works great due to the decreased cost ... which is especially nice in this post-Morrowind patch that puts a premium on one's own resource pools.

By the way, purge is also a good counter for Templars that spam Radiant Destruction.

TL;DR - Slot Purge on your back bar and stop whining ...

I would hardly say casting an ability that cost 5k+ magicka (30% more because of poison) every time you get a resource poison put on you counter play. You act like having trouble with poisons is a l2p issue. It really isn't. They should be removed from the game.

DeHei

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 5k Magicka/Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime

Well if its a bug, its a bug that I've seen from various players over time...

This isn't the 1st time that's happened to me...

You should not using Molag Kenas, maybe nobody have told you that before.. increased costs you know

Except, I don't use Molag Kena...

o_0

Was a joke mate

TheDoomsdayMonster

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There is counterplay already in the game as poisons are definitely purgeable ... and it's still a surprise to me that many players don't know that.

But, players (not sure if the OP is one of them) think they can't afford a skill slot for Purge ... and would rather complain in the forums than put it on their back bar.

Purge isn't a Templar skill. It's in the Alliance War section which means it's available to every class. If you're in a PvP raid, your healers will likely be running it for you ... my healer does.

But, if you don't have a healer running it, you can still slot it yourself. For non-healer roles, Efficient Purge works great due to the decreased cost ... which is especially nice in this post-Morrowind patch that puts a premium on one's own resource pools.

By the way, purge is also a good counter for Templars that spam Radiant Destruction.

TL;DR - Slot Purge on your back bar and stop whining ...

Dude...

1st off, I run with Ritual of Retribution at all times; dont act like I'm some noob that doesnt know what the hell he's talking about...I know exactly what the issue is here and I know how to play this game.

2nd the cost increase poisons are 100% NOT purgable...they are not purgable now and have never been...ever. Trust me, I've tried. Other poisons can be purged, but NOT the cost increase ones...go in game right now and test it out yourself.

3rd, even if the poisons were purgable, that would be of 0% benefit to me as pertains the situation described in the OP; the poision user is draining away your Resources as you are being attacked...purge isnt going to help you against that.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Purge lol, obviously your not seeing the whole picture. It's not just about increase cost poisons, there is also magic drain poisons and if they are named differently then they will stack. There is also magic drain skills and cp which reduces your regeneration.

So you can have 30% increased cost making your purge cost over 7000 magick while at the same time having your magick drained by up to 4000 in that same 10 second poison proc. So thats 11000 magic lost in 10 seconds and you havnt even casted any buffs, heals, or damage skills. Not to mention your regen is reduced so your barely getting any magic back if any.

So what was that counter you were talking about XD

Thank you...

Please talk some sense into that guy; either he's on here speaking ignorantly or he's a poison user and dont want them to have a counter...

TheDoomsdayMonster

DeHei wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Maybe a bug.. no game mechanic steals Magicka like you explained.. increased costs and less reg are possible only.
But a good idea only for PvP to create a skill, which steal 5k Magicka/Stamina after 1,5 sec casttime

Well if its a bug, its a bug that I've seen from various players over time...

This isn't the 1st time that's happened to me...

You should not using Molag Kenas, maybe nobody have told you that before.. increased costs you know

Except, I don't use Molag Kena...

o_0

Was a joke mate

Ah...its cool then.

Cheers!

Zer0oo

Cost increase poisons are so extrem op in pvp that most player don't run them because it feels like cheating. A 30% cost increase can not be countered, even the best sustain set offers only a 8% cost reduction. It gives you such an extrem advantage over your opponent that you almost can't lose unless you are really extrem bad.

Also purge is not a real counter since it already costs a lot of magica(4k) and when you are poisoned it will just cost even more.

SodanTok

Efficient Purge -> 5k magicka to remove 2 negative effect yay. Just use it 3-4 times every 10sec and you wont have any magicka left so the poison wont matter. That is the only counter when you play magicka build without templar. On mag warden you can press 10 times netch and you may get lucky to remove it. On stam you just accept the death.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

On unreleated (or is it) note, when did special ballistae (like lightning) stopped draining resources. People here acting like nothing in this game drains resources, so did I miss some patch note?

I'm not acting like nothing drains resources...

What I am complaining about is having my Resources drained at rates that no one could possibly counter...

That is a legit complaint...

You weren't, all people here are. But when it comes to it, were you actually hit by balista? Because thats the only thing that will drain your resources without your input (even with 30% poisons on you, you would have to cast several skills to drain yourself that fast)

DeHei

SodanTok wrote: »

Efficient Purge -> 5k magicka to remove 2 negative effect yay. Just use it 3-4 times every 10sec and you wont have any magicka left so the poison wont matter. That is the only counter when you play magicka build without templar. On mag warden you can press 10 times netch and you may get lucky to remove it. On stam you just accept the death.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

On unreleated (or is it) note, when did special ballistae (like lightning) stopped draining resources. People here acting like nothing in this game drains resources, so did I miss some patch note?

I'm not acting like nothing drains resources...

What I am complaining about is having my Resources drained at rates that no one could possibly counter...

That is a legit complaint...

You weren't, all people here are. But when it comes to it, were you actually hit by balista? Because thats the only thing that will drain your resources without your input (even with 30% poisons on you, you would have to cast several skills to drain yourself that fast)

Yep, i stopped playing with extended ritual for ritual of retribution in reason of bad purge. You waste time and Magicka.. I dont will purge active again, only when i want to purge burning oil or something like that..

GreenSoup2HoT

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Purge lol, obviously your not seeing the whole picture. It's not just about increase cost poisons, there is also magic drain poisons and if they are named differently then they will stack. There is also magic drain skills and cp which reduces your regeneration.

So you can have 30% increased cost making your purge cost over 7000 magick while at the same time having your magick drained by up to 4000 in that same 10 second poison proc. So thats 11000 magic lost in 10 seconds and you havnt even casted any buffs, heals, or damage skills. Not to mention your regen is reduced so your barely getting any magic back if any.

So what was that counter you were talking about XD

[snip] are you talking about? Nothing drains your stamina or magicka over-time.

[edited for profanity bypass]