Why is healthy jewelry considered such a DPS loss?

Bladerunner1

Many times I notice theory crafters tossing out any notion of running with a particular set simply because it has the healthy trait in the jewelry. My question: if you don't have an Imperial, so what?

For stamina builds, 9/10 times they're running all medium armor, using Dubious Camoran because it's the stam regen meta, and when they get an itch to theorycraft they toss aside many possibly awesome ideas simply because the jewelry is healthy.

Here's what I've noticed, the option between Healthy or Robust jewelry doesn't matter at all for my stam DPS Bosmer if I tweak a few things.

* Lose 2610 stamina and gain 2870 health from the jewelry.

* Drop two pieces of medium for one light and one heavy, pick up 6% more health and 4% more stamina from Undaunted and armor passives while losing 8% Stam recovery and 4% cost reduction.

*Use Lavafoot Soup instead of Dubious Camoran, gain 1383 Stamina 138 stamina regen while dropping 3511 health

When everything is added up, it's practically all the same stamina, health and resource management.

Wreuntzylla

That's why. However, you would be correct if on a non-CP server.

Sunah

Well in terms of casters, every 10 magicka is 1 effective spell damage i believe. Or was it 10.5? Its something like that. While it doesn't show on your character sheet if you pull up your skills you will see a clear difference in numbers on the tool tip if you put on a piece of gear with more magicka. Now this should be the same with stamina I believe.

Wreuntzylla

For stamina and magicka, it's 10.46 stat points equals one power point.

Bladerunner1

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

That's why. However, you would be correct if on a non-CP server.

Even with CP, removing robust entirely would result in net loss of 2610 stamina +522(from CP 20% buff)

There's a net gain of 2871 health + 574(from CP 20% buff)

If you Include the food and armor changes listed above, the result is nearly identical stats. Since I'm aiming for 18k health, my Bosmer will simply remove health attribute points (each buffed by x1.2 from CP) to gain more stamina attribute points (each buffed by x1.2 from CP)

SirAndy

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Many times I notice theory crafters tossing out any notion of running with a particular set simply because it has the healthy trait in the jewelry.

Because a lot (if not most) of the theory crafters have tunnel vision when it comes to numbers, even small fractional losses are considered abysmally worse and unworthy of any consideration.

They routinely ignore playability because they are blinded by minute percentages floating in front of their eyes.

Zanen

The 3000+ stamina you lose is actually pretty significant when most PVE DD builds are running about 7500 WPE.

It's about a 4% damage loss. That's not a huge problem for most players by itself assuming everything else is spot on for the role, but the bigger problem is most healthy sets are heavy and often limit other gear choices in a negative way.

The fact that they made time a factor in end game leaderboards means the serious players won't look for anything else but the fastest way to clear the content, it's a pretty significant flaw in the way the core game was designed IMO, because there's so much interesting stuff that's irrelevent to serious endgame.

For PVP though it's different.

Nestor

Here's the thing. If your killing mobs with your build and rotation, and your staying alive and managing your resources, then it's working, no matter what the Min/Maxers say.

Bladerunner1

Here's what I'm trying to show:

Bosmer wearing 7 medium, Dubious Camoran, Hundings, Automaton with robust jewelry:




Bosmer in 5m/1H/1L armor, Lavafoot Soup, Hundings, Ravaging with healthy jewelry:



See what I did there? There are no active buffs behind those numbers, it's literally the same stats between the two *edit* beside the buff to regen and drop in crit rating. If I were using an Imperial it would be different.

Xsorus

Personally when doing say a Healthy jewelry build (like two heavy armor sets)

I use Stamina/Stamina Recovery Food.

code65536

If your health and resource pools are fungible, then the jewelry trait doesn't matter. You can run healthy jewelry and swap other sources of health to your main resource to compensate.

The reason healthy jewelry is an issue is if you are stacking max stamina or max magicka with no attributes, enchantments, etc. in health. There, your health and main resource pools are not fungible, and it would be a loss.

Before the Morrowind patch, nobody would use Witchmother's or Dubious throne in PvE. You had zero attributes in health, zero enchantments in health, zero health bonuses from sets, and you'd use the standard blue max health+resource foods, and with Undaunted 9 and 5/1/1, you'd be at over 17K health. There was no health "fat" that you could trim.

After Morrowind, with some builds moving to health+resource+regen foods, you needed extra sources of health to compensate, and you could get that from health enchants or health attributes or, yes, healthy jewelry. But not all PvE builds are LA+spammable builds that require regen. Some are builds that stack max resource/damage just like last patch, and simply replace the LA+spammable with a heavy attack. And in a number of cases (magsorc and stamdk in particular), these heavy attack builds outperform regen builds, so they too have a lack of health "fat" that can be trimmed to accommodate healthy jewelry.

GreenSoup2HoT

I have a build on my medium nightblade that is awesome considering im Imperial. Plague Doctor Jewellery and 2 heavy. I have 35k health on a medium nightblade xD. Makes surviving proc sets and burst so easy.... and for some reason people assume im a tank and ignore me but i still have really good burst.