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Wizard's Riposte Needs a Buff

  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    Proc sets haven't even happened on live yet and already the conplaints about slimecraw (really), DrughKing, and Rattlecage.

    That was fast even by internet standards that was fast.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    From my understanding, skill base damage is balanced with the buffs in mind. If those buffs were optional and harder to come by, skills would generally do more damage on their own.
    Wizard's Reposte is not a counter to Sorcery and Brutaluty, therefore. It's just another defensive set.

    Where does that understanding originate from? And are you assuming that skill base damage isn't balanced with damage debuffs in mind?
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    acw37162 wrote: »
    Proc sets haven't even happened on live yet and already the conplaints about slimecraw (really), DrughKing, and Rattlecage.

    That was fast even by internet standards that was fast.

    No one is complaining about those sets. Read the first post.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.

    Balance.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.

    Balance.

    Aha. Very insightful. The uptime wouldn't really change so why even bother?
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.

    Balance.

    Aha. Very insightful. The uptime wouldn't really change so why even bother?

    Thanks. And yes it would change, by adding 5 seconds to the base duration. Again, for the purpose of balance.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.

    Balance.

    Aha. Very insightful. The uptime wouldn't really change so why even bother?

    Thanks. And yes it would change, by adding 5 seconds to the base duration. Again, for the purpose of balance.

    Tell me what the difference is between 100% uptime and 100% uptime.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    And what would that achieve? The uptime is already 100% against somebody who's in your face. Even with base crit chance of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.

    Balance.

    Aha. Very insightful. The uptime wouldn't really change so why even bother?

    Thanks. And yes it would change, by adding 5 seconds to the base duration. Again, for the purpose of balance.

    Tell me what the difference is between 100% uptime and 100% uptime.

    It's not always up, which means it's not 100% uptime.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    With 10% crit Chance minimum and 15 sec Time, 1 attack per sec, how could it not be always up? Or like someone in another thread said "please show me the build which never crits".
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
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    Its fine the way it is.

    If the set gave flat out 15% reduction and wasn't in the form of a common debuff thats already possible to get via other skills then it would need nerfing.

    But as thats not true it should stay the same/
    All sources of Minor Maim only reduce player damage by 10% not 15% as the tooltip says.

    Likewise:
    • Major Maim only reduces player damage by 20%, not 30%.
    • Bastion of the Heartland (5% player dmg + 20% AoE mitigation) only gives 20% mitigation total.
    • Blade Cloak (25% tooltip mitigation) only gives 20% mitigation.

    These sources of mitigation all do give the actual tooltip mitigation against NPC mobs, just not against players - which is what I discovered after testing each one.

    None of that means these things aren't useful, you just have to keep the actual numbers in mind when discussing them.
    Edited by HoloYoitsu on July 21, 2017 1:31AM
  • Lexxypwns
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    For the record, regardless of tooltip, minor maim is only
    10% not 15% on players
  • brtomkin
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    Minor Main is applied to the attacker... so the effect does not just benefit you, it benefits all of the affected player's targets, correct? For example, the Eye of the Storm that is debuffed for you will also do less damage to everyone else in the area. To me, this is what makes the set balanced.

    PS5 NA: Pickmans__Model, CP 2000+
  • sly007
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    Koolio wrote: »
    Minor Berserk 8%
    Major Berserk 25%
    Minor Mending 8%
    Major Mending 25%
    Minor Maim 15%?
    Major maim 30%?
    Minor sorcery 5%


    I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.

    They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.

    Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?

    I concur. Why are minor maim and defile 15% while minor berserk and vitality 8%. Make them equal then we can talk.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    sly007 wrote: »
    Koolio wrote: »
    Minor Berserk 8%
    Major Berserk 25%
    Minor Mending 8%
    Major Mending 25%
    Minor Maim 15%?
    Major maim 30%?
    Minor sorcery 5%


    I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.

    They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.

    Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?

    I concur. Why are minor maim and defile 15% while minor berserk and vitality 8%. Make them equal then we can talk.

    Its a lot easier to boost dmg than it is to reduce it.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • paulsimonps
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    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    Its fine the way it is.

    If the set gave flat out 15% reduction and wasn't in the form of a common debuff thats already possible to get via other skills then it would need nerfing.

    But as thats not true it should stay the same/
    All sources of Minor Maim only reduce player damage by 10% not 15% as the tooltip says.

    Likewise:
    • Major Maim only reduces player damage by 20%, not 30%.
    • Bastion of the Heartland (5% player dmg + 20% AoE mitigation) only gives 20% mitigation total.
    • Blade Cloak (25% tooltip mitigation) only gives 20% mitigation.

    These sources of mitigation all do give the actual tooltip mitigation against NPC mobs, just not against players - which is what I discovered after testing each one.

    None of that means these things aren't useful, you just have to keep the actual numbers in mind when discussing them.

    This is WRONG! This is not how it works. Tested it again just today.

    My wife went on her DC toon and took of all skills and attributes and CP and had nothing but her Gold bow and base version of snipe on. Tooltip showed 4160 physical damage, and since she had no passives or other that could increase it the value is accurate. The values I am about to list is when she hit me with that snipe, I was wearing no armor, had no skills or passive other the one ones needed to get the buffs/debuffs and no CP. The test was done in Cyrodiil on the PTS.

    Tooltip: 4160

    Damage with Battlespirit: 2080
    Damage with Battlespirit calculations: 4160*((100-50)/100)=2080

    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Maim: 1768
    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Maim calculations: 4160*((100-50)/100)*((100-15)/100)=1768

    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Protection: 1914
    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Protection calculations: 4160*((100-50)/100)*((100-8)/100)=1913.6

    Damage with Battlespirit & Major Protection: 1456
    Damage with Battlespirit & Major Protection calculations: 4160*((100-50)/100)*((100-30)/100)=1456

    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Protection & Minor Maim: 1627
    Damage with Battlespirit & Minor Protection & Minor Maim calculations: 4160*((100-50)/100)*((100-15)/100)*((100-8)/100)=1626.56

    All the testing I have ever done on Mitigation has been done in the same way. And I've been testing this kind of thing for over 2 years to keep my data fresh. This is nothing new. So the tooltips of all these things are accurate, its just that they are subject to diminishing returns. They work the exact same way they do in PvP as they do in PvE, nothing changes.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1
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