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Wizard's Riposte Needs a Buff
GrumpyDuckling
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Since some people don't understand how essential it is to have counters in this game and have been advocating for a Wizard's Riposte nerf, I'm countering and advocating for a Wizard's Riposte buff:
Wizard's Riposte
- Requires 5 slots of armor
- Requires damage taken from a critical hit to activate
- Serves as a counter to the easily accessible major brutality and major sorcery buffs, as well as the minor berserk buff
- The 15 second duration, once activated, is shorter than all the duration skills that give major brutality and major sorcery
- The set provides a counter to Dreugh King Slayer, Rattlecage, and Slimecraw sets
A note on that last point: I could just as easily run 5 piece Dreugh King or Rattlecage and 2 piece Slimecraw. That's PERMANENT damage buffs against all enemy targets without the condition that I have to take crit damage, and without cool down timers. Again, those are PERMANENT, not temporary or under conditions like taking crit damage.
Buff Request: To represent a better counter to damage buffs, Wizard's Riposte should have the duration of its debuff extended to 20 seconds, up from 15 seconds.
Wizard's Riposte
- Requires 5 slots of armor
- Requires damage taken from a critical hit to activate
- Serves as a counter to the easily accessible major brutality and major sorcery buffs, as well as the minor berserk buff
- The 15 second duration, once activated, is shorter than all the duration skills that give major brutality and major sorcery
- The set provides a counter to Dreugh King Slayer, Rattlecage, and Slimecraw sets
A note on that last point: I could just as easily run 5 piece Dreugh King or Rattlecage and 2 piece Slimecraw. That's PERMANENT damage buffs against all enemy targets without the condition that I have to take crit damage, and without cool down timers. Again, those are PERMANENT, not temporary or under conditions like taking crit damage.
Buff Request: To represent a better counter to damage buffs, Wizard's Riposte should have the duration of its debuff extended to 20 seconds, up from 15 seconds.
4
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Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think it needs a nerf but it absolutely does NOT need a buff. That set is strong af. I say leave it be.2 -
Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Given the absolute glut of armor sets and their respective bonuses in this game, cant you find something else that achieves your end? I mean really, you want to buff wizards?
You realize that will create flood conditions with tears. The regular forum cry babies will be in here quicker than you can say sizzle chest complaining about how OP it is.
Leave it be.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Given the absolute glut of armor sets and their respective bonuses in this game, cant you find something else that achieves your end? I mean really, you want to buff wizards?
You realize that will create flood conditions with tears. The regular forum cry babies will be in here quicker than you can say sizzle chest complaining about how OP it is.
Leave it be.
Yes. To even out the counters. Who cares if people cry when good balance is being achieved with good logic?0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sources of MAJOR MAIM:- Templar Dawn's Wrath Ultimate: Nova+Morphs
- Warden Winter's Embrace Ability: Frozen Device (Morph of Frozen Gate)
The Warden ability applies if after the target is teleported and Nova applies it to any target that enters its Area of Effect. Both are a 30% reduction to the damage that the target can deal.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Yes, Warden Bear trap skill has a morph that has one.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Yes, Warden Bear trap skill has a morph that has one.
Um, no.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It doesn't need a buff, it doesn't need a nerd, it needs to be left alone.
*CRIES*
Why can't everyone just leave Riposte alone?!?!
*Sobbing*
- instant you tube sensation1 -
Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Given the absolute glut of armor sets and their respective bonuses in this game, cant you find something else that achieves your end? I mean really, you want to buff wizards?
You realize that will create flood conditions with tears. The regular forum cry babies will be in here quicker than you can say sizzle chest complaining about how OP it is.
Leave it be.
Yes. To even out the counters. Who cares if people cry when good balance is being achieved with good logic?
Okay fair enough, but someone DOES CARE when people cry and thats ZOS. So careful what you wish for, a buff here usually means a nerf there.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Given the absolute glut of armor sets and their respective bonuses in this game, cant you find something else that achieves your end? I mean really, you want to buff wizards?
You realize that will create flood conditions with tears. The regular forum cry babies will be in here quicker than you can say sizzle chest complaining about how OP it is.
Leave it be.
Yes. To even out the counters. Who cares if people cry when good balance is being achieved with good logic?
Okay fair enough, but someone DOES CARE when people cry and thats ZOS. So careful what you wish for, a buff here usually means a nerf there.
Haha I dunno if I agree entirely. If history tells us anything about people crying, ZOS' response would be, "You don't need to be here."0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.
With that logic we'd never even have a video game of this caliber to play. We would still be playing Pong. "Well Jim, Pong is working effectively and being played commonly, therefore it is unquestionably the pinnacle of gaming and no improvements in this industry need ever be made from this day forward."0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.
With that logic we'd never even have a video game of this caliber to play. We would still be playing Pong. "Well Jim, Pong is working effectively and being played commonly, therefore it is unquestionably the pinnacle of gaming and no improvements in this industry need ever be made from this day forward."
If you are going to reach that far to find a false equivalency, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun out there.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.
With that logic we'd never even have a video game of this caliber to play. We would still be playing Pong. "Well Jim, Pong is working effectively and being played commonly, therefore it is unquestionably the pinnacle of gaming and no improvements in this industry need ever be made from this day forward."
If you are going to reach that far to find a false equivalency, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun out there.
You gotta admit you set yourself up for that one. The point is that most skill balancing in this game is about small, minor tweaks that are, gasp, even tweaks to skills/abilities that are popular and/or commonly used effectively.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.
With that logic we'd never even have a video game of this caliber to play. We would still be playing Pong. "Well Jim, Pong is working effectively and being played commonly, therefore it is unquestionably the pinnacle of gaming and no improvements in this industry need ever be made from this day forward."
If you are going to reach that far to find a false equivalency, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun out there.
You gotta admit you set yourself up for that one. The point is that most skill balancing in this game is about small, minor tweaks that are, gasp, even tweaks to skills/abilities that are popular and/or commonly used effectively.
Again, if you are going to make false equivalencies of that nature, there just isn't any rational response.
If it'll make you feel better, sure it makes sense for a set debuff to damage done to match up to an ability duration buffing a character stat.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Minor Berserk 8%
Major Berserk 25%
Minor Mending 8%
Major Mending 25%
Minor Maim 15%?
Major maim 30%?
Minor sorcery 5%
I would say bring the minor/major system to be equal. Then buff the set.
They even nerfed major Mending to make it equal to major Berserk a while back.
Why is minor maim almost as strong as a major buff?
Does Major Maim exist in the game?
Templar and Warden ultimate
I don't think those are maim. I think those are protection.
Warden ult is protection. Templar ult is maim.
Riposte certainly doesn't need a buff, though. It's already super popular and effective.
I can also say that Major Brutality and Sorcery, as well as Minor Berserk are super popular and effective. Doesn't mean that their counter shouldn't have the minimal time duration that some of their skills have.
I don't see anybody arguing that the other buffs need adjustment? Not really sure what your point is. Not all things are the same in duration or percentage, nor should they be.
I was offering a counterpoint to your argument. You said WR didn't need a buff because it's "already super popular and effective." With that logic I then countered by saying that the damage buffs (which are even more popular and as a result more effective simply because of frequency of use) have a minimum duration that should be matched by their counter.
That's absolutely not a counterpoint. Those buffs are ALSO popular and effective, and most forms of them have a perfectly fine duration for their respective sources.
I don't know where the idea that durations of different buffs and debuffs should be synced up is coming from, but it's utter nonsense. Buffs and debuffs in the game apply in wildly different ways.
No one said that all general durations of buffs/debuffs should be the same. We're only talking about Minor Maim on Wizard's Riposte. Read the first post of the thread. Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Berserk can all be had for longer durations (and even permanently with specific sets).
Currently there is no way to gain Minor Maim permanently, but at the very least I think it's a logical balancing argument to say that the maim in Wizard's Riposte should gain an additional 5 seconds to match the lowest duration timers that exist on the damage buffs.
You can disagree, but if you really want to discuss this then give me something better than simply saying no because of "popularity" and "effectiveness." "Popularity" isn't even an argument and just saying "effective" doesn't mean that Wizard's Riposte can't or shouldn't be fine tuned.
If something is currently being used effectively and commonly, it shouldn't be made better. I don't see how that can be at all controversial. And it certainly shouldn't be "fine tuned" to match some bizarre buff timer OCD.
That being said, adding 5 seconds to it would achieve almost nothing, since it's uptime is essentially 100 percent in any meaningful context.
With that logic we'd never even have a video game of this caliber to play. We would still be playing Pong. "Well Jim, Pong is working effectively and being played commonly, therefore it is unquestionably the pinnacle of gaming and no improvements in this industry need ever be made from this day forward."
If you are going to reach that far to find a false equivalency, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun out there.
You gotta admit you set yourself up for that one. The point is that most skill balancing in this game is about small, minor tweaks that are, gasp, even tweaks to skills/abilities that are popular and/or commonly used effectively.
Again, if you are going to make false equivalencies of that nature, there just isn't any rational response.
If it'll make you feel better, sure it makes sense for a set debuff to damage done to match up to an ability duration buffing a character stat.
Feels great, thank you.0 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭Riposte also serves as a counter to empowered abilities. People are able to empower ults and hit for ridiculous numbers, but giving up a 5 piece bonus to counter that isn't allowed? Okay.#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?2 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭You could nerf the Maim duration of WR to 5 seconds and it would still serve its purpose of countering dmg just fine. But it would make counterplay (not attacking the WR user) a bit more reasonable.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its fine the way it is.
If the set gave flat out 15% reduction and wasn't in the form of a common debuff thats already possible to get via other skills then it would need nerfing.
But as thats not true it should stay the same/PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »Riposte also serves as a counter to empowered abilities. People are able to empower ults and hit for ridiculous numbers, but giving up a 5 piece bonus to counter that isn't allowed? Okay.
Very good point. And every build has access to empowered through mage's skill line.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From my understanding, skill base damage is balanced with the buffs in mind. If those buffs were optional and harder to come by, skills would generally do more damage on their own.
Wizard's Reposte is not a counter to Sorcery and Brutaluty, therefore. It's just another defensive set.0