About soul assault..

br0steen

Pretty sure people who slot this in pvp are expert Xv1ers

SodanTok

The problem with soul assault is not the damage. And partly not even the cost. As long as you are stamina and you have to block it for 20k stam (block cost + regen). It does not matter what damage it does (up to the point where you stop caring about the damage and do not block it anymore). It does not matter how expensive for them was to steal 20k stam from you (again, up to the point where people stop slotting it because it is not worth it for the cost).

So, unless the blocking mechanics in this game change, soul assault needs to change how it affects blocking.

1. Less damage ticks. It ticks 8 times now, so it procs maximum possible block cost even in 1v1.
2. Remove snare and/or make it interruptible. Even with less damage ticks, the snare still forces target to never leave the vicinity of you. And giving everyone 4seconds to arrive and hit him. The only thing (including all CC!) as good as soul assault at keeping targets in the area is Tremorscale.

Sarato wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is extremely powerful skill for this cost.

Just compare number at the same character (stam NB) with the same gear and buffs:
Toxic barrage (bow ult) - 175 cost - 27k channel per 4.1 sec + 20k DOT per 8 sec. Obviously, requires a bow.
Soul Assault - 100 cost - 32k channel* per 3.5 sec, 70% snare and 2 sec anti-stealth. No special requirements.
* - Damage numbers from mages would be ~60k channel here.

With nearly 2 times less cost Soul Assault has nearly 1.5 times more damage. This is BS. A damage must be toned down (by ~40% and some debuff removed) or cost increased (up to 200 ult).

Nice analysis but the solution is to buff the bow ult, not nerf soul assault.

Well the Bow Ult is already amazingly strong..

Where did you come to that conclusion. Have you ever used Toxic Barrage?

DeadlyRecluse

It's only reallyOP against potatoes and, as mentioned, in Xv1 contexts.

The snare could definitely stand to be toned down--on non-sword and board builds, holding block while trying to LOS soul strike is an exercise in frustration.

A little cost bump wouldn't be the end of the world, either, though it wouldn't address the common frustration with the skill.

Xvorg

Ok people, couple of things:

1st, being a channeled DoT, SAs benefits from at least 50 points into thaum (18.75% extra dmg), that means you MUST use DoTs on your build

2nd, forget about penetration. Any DoT build must achieve 50% crit and that is noticed when using SA. Your crit tick of 4-5K are noticeable (50 points into spell crit)

3rd, there's no better CC support for SAs than flame reach. Period. (oh, it has a DoT too). The knockback implies an enemy not blocking... sure, they can break cc, but it means less block (did I mention that flame staff increase your single target skills like... SAs?)

4th one dot is never enough, you need at least 3. A good trick I use on my DoTblade is to put even 4 DoTs before SA:

Flame Reach -> Entropy -> degeneration (yes, degen over crip grasp) -> Soul trap (started using consuming trap last night and those 2.5k magicka back are nice) -> SAs. You must be quick puting the dots before the enemy get ups after flame reach. Did he blocked SA? No problem, the DoTs are gona do their job. Did he put a shield on him? No Problem, the DoTs are gona take the shield down in les than 3 secs. Did he survived the attack? No problem, put pressure on the enemy by using light attacks ideally a poison is required).

SA is a strong skill in the hands of those who know how to use it

Solariken

Sarato wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is extremely powerful skill for this cost.

Just compare number at the same character (stam NB) with the same gear and buffs:
Toxic barrage (bow ult) - 175 cost - 27k channel per 4.1 sec + 20k DOT per 8 sec. Obviously, requires a bow.
Soul Assault - 100 cost - 32k channel* per 3.5 sec, 70% snare and 2 sec anti-stealth. No special requirements.
* - Damage numbers from mages would be ~60k channel here.

With nearly 2 times less cost Soul Assault has nearly 1.5 times more damage. This is BS. A damage must be toned down (by ~40% and some debuff removed) or cost increased (up to 200 ult).

Nice analysis but the solution is to buff the bow ult, not nerf soul assault.

Well the Bow Ult is already amazingly strong..

Ballista is awesome and yes, very strong. But the base morph and Toxic Barrage are hot garbage and should be changed.

Xvorg

Solariken wrote: »

Sarato wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is extremely powerful skill for this cost.

Just compare number at the same character (stam NB) with the same gear and buffs:
Toxic barrage (bow ult) - 175 cost - 27k channel per 4.1 sec + 20k DOT per 8 sec. Obviously, requires a bow.
Soul Assault - 100 cost - 32k channel* per 3.5 sec, 70% snare and 2 sec anti-stealth. No special requirements.
* - Damage numbers from mages would be ~60k channel here.

With nearly 2 times less cost Soul Assault has nearly 1.5 times more damage. This is BS. A damage must be toned down (by ~40% and some debuff removed) or cost increased (up to 200 ult).

Nice analysis but the solution is to buff the bow ult, not nerf soul assault.

Well the Bow Ult is already amazingly strong..

Ballista is awesome and yes, very strong. But the base morph and Toxic Barrage are hot garbage and should be changed.

I have no problem with a 125 ulti toxic barrage

Lord-Otto

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

Xvorg

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

QuebraRegra

Waffennacht wrote: »

No.

looks at EOS... say nope, not in the least.

Waffennacht

Xvorg wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

I miss seeing that...

Xvorg wrote: »

Ok people, couple of things:

1st, being a channeled DoT, SAs benefits from at least 50 points into thaum (18.75% extra dmg), that means you MUST use DoTs on your build

2nd, forget about penetration. Any DoT build must achieve 50% crit and that is noticed when using SA. Your crit tick of 4-5K are noticeable (50 points into spell crit)

3rd, there's no better CC support for SAs than flame reach. Period. (oh, it has a DoT too). The knockback implies an enemy not blocking... sure, they can break cc, but it means less block (did I mention that flame staff increase your single target skills like... SAs?)

4th one dot is never enough, you need at least 3. A good trick I use on my DoTblade is to put even 4 DoTs before SA:

Flame Reach -> Entropy -> degeneration (yes, degen over crip grasp) -> Soul trap (started using consuming trap last night and those 2.5k magicka back are nice) -> SAs. You must be quick puting the dots before the enemy get ups after flame reach. Did he blocked SA? No problem, the DoTs are gona do their job. Did he put a shield on him? No Problem, the DoTs are gona take the shield down in les than 3 secs. Did he survived the attack? No problem, put pressure on the enemy by using light attacks ideally a poison is required).

SA is a strong skill in the hands of those who know how to use it

Soul Trap huh? Hrm... I know you can trap any number of Target's... So how's it feeling?

Xvorg

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

I miss seeing that...

Xvorg wrote: »

Ok people, couple of things:

1st, being a channeled DoT, SAs benefits from at least 50 points into thaum (18.75% extra dmg), that means you MUST use DoTs on your build

2nd, forget about penetration. Any DoT build must achieve 50% crit and that is noticed when using SA. Your crit tick of 4-5K are noticeable (50 points into spell crit)

3rd, there's no better CC support for SAs than flame reach. Period. (oh, it has a DoT too). The knockback implies an enemy not blocking... sure, they can break cc, but it means less block (did I mention that flame staff increase your single target skills like... SAs?)

4th one dot is never enough, you need at least 3. A good trick I use on my DoTblade is to put even 4 DoTs before SA:

Flame Reach -> Entropy -> degeneration (yes, degen over crip grasp) -> Soul trap (started using consuming trap last night and those 2.5k magicka back are nice) -> SAs. You must be quick puting the dots before the enemy get ups after flame reach. Did he blocked SA? No problem, the DoTs are gona do their job. Did he put a shield on him? No Problem, the DoTs are gona take the shield down in les than 3 secs. Did he survived the attack? No problem, put pressure on the enemy by using light attacks ideally a poison is required).

SA is a strong skill in the hands of those who know how to use it

Soul Trap huh? Hrm... I know you can trap any number of Target's... So how's it feeling?

The resources back are quite helpful. And since degen refunds its cost and flame reach also gives you mag back, you end up with almost no res problems (but you need to kill the guy)

The dmg itself is not so big (ticks of 800 aprox) but when you add those ticks to the other ones, the dps is something to consider, average 3K DPS; 6K total per tick without crit, but varies from build to build... slow but certain death.

Regarding the targets, it is hard to affect 2 targets, but when you do, it's nice xD

Oblivion foe seems appealing, but IDK how much DPs will I lose changing my current Julianos for it (spell crit is gonna suffer a lot though).

It's an interesting set up, far, far away from the current "my burst is bigger than yours" in PvP xD

Gan Xing

The only times i've ever died to Soul Assault is when 2 or more people used it on me, with a few other ults... Difficult to get out of that. I've also died when I ran out of resources to block (mostly cause there is already a zerg on my ass, and rarely cause I wasted resources trying to take out a tank)

i b Apathy

To all these people saying it isn't OP , they must not pvp on xbox na because Id like any of them to post a video of them surviving a soul assault after getting Hitt with a javalin and a raidiant at the same time ... please post all your links you all mighty players.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Soul Assault is fine as is IMHO...

Its not at all OP; it locks you into doing nothing else for 3+ seconds...that's crippling against those who know what they are doing.

I don't even bother blocking it; I just heal right through it and typically kill the person who cast it on me.

Tyrion87

I often kill with this skill. That's true.

On the other hand I am very rarely killed with this skill.

Given that I am not a PvP pro, then no - Soul Assault is not OP.

cpuScientist

Is it too strong... No but like Eye, it's another *** ulti that needs to be looked at. It is an intense resource drain against Stam classes, not being able to dodge roll or reliably block it means Los or full on assault is the only option, and you are snared so Los on anything but a sorc or stamBlade is really hard to do. Stam classes cannot really heal through that effectively. They can just shield it and keep going either. They have to block it. And that's a cheap ulti that kills Stam users resources. If it costs less to block, basically like meteor it would be fine.

Also the skill is better for some obviously than others. It's amazing on magplar with purifying light reflective light javelin then start going at em they'll be near dead or dead outright. If not JBEAM. Magblade cripple flame reach do it then execute and or bow proc. MagDK dot em up and go into it. Not as good in a do imo. MagSorc get the burst combo set up... MagWarden fetcher sub assault. There are very lethal ways to use this skill. Very good players former Emps, high ranked pvpers love to use the skill in BG and duels. In open world it's all about destro ult and dawnbreaker. But it's extremely strong in duels and BG's. And PvP is not only cyrodil.

As I said it's a *** ulti that has mechanics that really need looking at. Against a magtoons it's normal it's whatever, against Stam toons it's too much if a resource hog. Remove the snare and reduce the hits per cast, leave the damage.

Merlin13KAGL

It's a single target only, an ultimate, and it literally requires you to save the world to obtain it...

It's also not going to kill anyone on its own accord...like ever.

It's very situational, powerful when it is used, and both of those aspects should remain true.

DeathHouseInc

Sounds like people got killed by something.

olsborg

It deals too much dmg/snare for that cost.

Brutusmax1mus

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's a single target only, an ultimate, and it literally requires you to save the world to obtain it...

It's also not going to kill anyone on its own accord...like ever.

It's very situational, powerful when it is used, and both of those aspects should remain true.

Won't kill anyone good by itself, it'll kill plenty of baddies. My tooltip is 86k on it.

Waffennacht

.

i b Apathy wrote: »

To all these people saying it isn't OP , they must not pvp on xbox na because Id like any of them to post a video of them surviving a soul assault after getting Hitt with a javalin and a raidiant at the same time ... please post all your links you all mighty players.

That's exactly where I play, check out my vids, it's in there.

It's called healing ward

Chilly-McFreeze

problem is that stam toons, the ones that run dry blocking it, have no healing ward.

leepalmer95

Oh its very OP

Needs its ticks reducing to 4 and its snare going at the very least.

also maybe a cost increase.

leepalmer95

Solariken wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is extremely powerful skill for this cost.

Just compare number at the same character (stam NB) with the same gear and buffs:
Toxic barrage (bow ult) - 175 cost - 27k channel per 4.1 sec + 20k DOT per 8 sec. Obviously, requires a bow.
Soul Assault - 100 cost - 32k channel* per 3.5 sec, 70% snare and 2 sec anti-stealth. No special requirements.
* - Damage numbers from mages would be ~60k channel here.

With nearly 2 times less cost Soul Assault has nearly 1.5 times more damage. This is BS. A damage must be toned down (by ~40% and some debuff removed) or cost increased (up to 200 ult).

Nice analysis but the solution is to buff the bow ult, not nerf soul assault.

Bow ult is fine.

Soul assault is the one overperforming.

Trashkan

No it's not too strong. I don't use but it's a channeled Ult it should be strong. There are counters to it but it's line of sight and range. This also leaves caster vulnerable to anyone not being targeted and basically makes you a sitting duck.

KramUzibra

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

At one point in time, Soul Assault could be Cleansed...

Nightblades can break this ability with Cloak...

Any competent Templar (as well as Strongly built Stamina characters) that's not out of Resources will heal through it without much difficulty...

Sorcs can easily shield through it...

Lol counters..?? Sorcs can sheild sure but what about medium? Block and heal?

Lord-Otto

Xvorg wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

Tsss...
I miss playing ping pong with meteors on my DK. xD

But for real. Meteor is really expensive and telegraphed. Blocking it should come at a cost, therefore.
It's frustrating how little stam it drains when the DoT is a waste, Dawnbreaker hits almost as hard with half the cost and you can prepare for it.
I have the DoT from DB on me, endure debuffs from Incap and enjoy being thrown from walls by Leap. Meteor should also have a guaranteed secondary benefit for the cost. 9 ult out of 170 or a snare that's inferior to a permanent proc effect (Tremorscale) is really weak. Stam drain sounds fair, IMO.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

Tsss...
I miss playing ping pong with meteors on my DK. xD

But for real. Meteor is really expensive and telegraphed. Blocking it should come at a cost, therefore.
It's frustrating how little stam it drains when the DoT is a waste, Dawnbreaker hits almost as hard with half the cost and you can prepare for it.
I have the DoT from DB on me, endure debuffs from Incap and enjoy being thrown from walls by Leap. Meteor should also have a guaranteed secondary benefit for the cost. 9 ult out of 170 or a snare that's inferior to a permanent proc effect (Tremorscale) is really weak. Stam drain sounds fair, IMO.

Nah, since dodge roll, MA etc took so much hits as of last why not let it ignore magickal shields instead? *cough*

SodanTok

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Blocking this on a Stam character drain roughly 20k stam. Meteor 2800ish.

This is the problem right there. Blocking Meteor should be really expensive.

I miss the times when I cloaked/reflected meteor... =/

Tsss...
I miss playing ping pong with meteors on my DK. xD

But for real. Meteor is really expensive and telegraphed. Blocking it should come at a cost, therefore.
It's frustrating how little stam it drains when the DoT is a waste, Dawnbreaker hits almost as hard with half the cost and you can prepare for it.
I have the DoT from DB on me, endure debuffs from Incap and enjoy being thrown from walls by Leap. Meteor should also have a guaranteed secondary benefit for the cost. 9 ult out of 170 or a snare that's inferior to a permanent proc effect (Tremorscale) is really weak. Stam drain sounds fair, IMO.

Yes, ults should be balanced around their impact vs medium armor builds /s

Lord-Otto

Huh?

If Meteor drained more stam, I'd rather worry about magicka builds. Meteor, unblocked, hits hard enough to be a threat even when fully shielded. And blocking is complicated for most mag builds.

Stamina builds are still specialized in stamina, so they should typically not run dry from just one Meteor. But it should be enough to put them on the defense for a while, which is my intention. As of now, you can just ani-cancel into a block when Met hits you, never losing your momentum.