Warden is a pretty horrible class

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ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lmao. Git Gud. Wardens are OP. The class is utterly broken. In PvE it can tank, heal and dps. In PvP they are unkillable juggernauts that can easily 1vX. If anything the class needs to be nerfed into the ground. If you can't figure out how to play it that's not a class problem, that's a you problem.

Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8.

Artis

Tryxus wrote: »

Other than the slower gameplay and the Frozen Armor passive that sux, I def DO NOT agree with the OP

(Excuse the Pokemon referrences)

The gameplay of the Warden is indeed slower, especially due to the delay on the Pidgeys and the Shalk. Which means that you have to play more in a tactical way than the other classes.

The only role in which the Warden is terrible is PvE DPS, but other than that the Warden is def a good and fun class to use. It is NOT the most horrible class to use

Which one is the most horrible?

s7732425ub17_ESO

I have lots of playtime with Mag Warden. Undaunted rank 9 and a million solo earned AP.

DPS in PVE is definitely lacking compared to other classes. Sustain is also just as bad as other classes. Pretty sure Winter's Revenge is bugged and should be doing more damage than it currently does. One big gripe is that if I want to push up the DPS to be on par with other classes, I have to use the Bear ulti, which takes both bars, and doesn't allow me to use Meteor or Elemental Rage on fights that need it (all fights in Vet Maw for example!).

PVP Mag Warden has super high burst. You can hit 3 abilities + stun in one combat tick. This usually knocks non-tanky characters well below half health or downright kills them. Many players do not expect this.

PVP Mag Warden has the strongest somewhat-spammable, longest range, AOE heal available. If allies on the front lines are getting hurt, you just use your forest ulti. And 10 seconds later, that ulti is back up, and you can use it again. So many people underestimate this. Being able to throw the strongest heal in the game up to 36 meters away is downright powerful.

Fletcher Infection is just weak in PVP. I see it do 1-2k per tick. And remember, the ticks happen every 2 seconds. So this DPS is completely negligible. I have also used Swarming Infection, and it definitely spreads well in zerg PVP, but the damage is still tiny.

PVP Warden has the Frozen Portal spell. This is the longest range chain in the game. AND it acts as a trap, so you can place it and wait. This spell causes so many deaths to players that would otherwise manage to escape. Use it on a guarded door = guaranteed death. Use it to pull someone on the front line = guaranteed death. This also works on very uneven terrain!!! You can literally pull someone up to the top of a hill that they are unable to climb up.

Cliff Racer needs to remain undodgeable. It's one of the only counters to dodge roll spam. Those NBs that stealth, try their burst combo, and then dodge roll away have to be able to die somehow. And since Warden has no reliable CCs, this is the solution.

Yasha

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have lots of playtime with Mag Warden. Undaunted rank 9 and a million solo earned AP.



PVP Warden has the Frozen Portal spell. This is the longest range chain in the game. AND it acts as a trap, so you can place it and wait. This spell causes so many deaths to players that would otherwise manage to escape. Use it on a guarded door = guaranteed death. Use it to pull someone on the front line = guaranteed death. This also works on very uneven terrain!!! You can literally pull someone up to the top of a hill that they are unable to climb up.

I have rarely seen frozen portal work, its a wasted slot and its not a trap because players can see it. I have used it plenty of times on entrance ways and nothing happens, its just stupid. Also it is even more unreliable on uneven terrain, if that is possible. Chains is infinitely better.

CiliPadi

I am disappointed with the Warden class too. I don't see it on par with the other classes. I've been doing Trials and rarely see a Warden in it.

Aliyavana

So I guess this is unbearable

MLGProPlayer

They are awful in PvE. You need the absolute best in slot gear just to hit 30k+ DPS with them, and even then you need to slot the bear ult (which is pretty useless due to it being single target and unreliable). Every other class can pull 40k+ with ease.

MLGProPlayer

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lmao. Git Gud. Wardens are OP. The class is utterly broken. In PvE it can tank, heal and dps. In PvP they are unkillable juggernauts that can easily 1vX. If anything the class needs to be nerfed into the ground. If you can't figure out how to play it that's not a class problem, that's a you problem.

You can count the number of wardens on trials leader boards on one hand (there are 2 in the top-50 for vMoL right now...). It's an awful class.

Waffennacht

I

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lmao. Git Gud. Wardens are OP. The class is utterly broken. In PvE it can tank, heal and dps. In PvP they are unkillable juggernauts that can easily 1vX. If anything the class needs to be nerfed into the ground. If you can't figure out how to play it that's not a class problem, that's a you problem.

You can count the number of wardens on trials leader boards on one hand (there are 2 in the top-50 for vMoL right now...). It's an awful class.

No one said it's top dps in PvE. But who cares about PvE? Lol

MLGProPlayer

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure Winter's Revenge is bugged and should be doing more damage than it currently does.

It uses weapon crit instead of spell crit. A bug that was brought to ZOS' attention during the beta. It still hasn't been addressed.

MLGProPlayer

Waffennacht wrote: »

I

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lmao. Git Gud. Wardens are OP. The class is utterly broken. In PvE it can tank, heal and dps. In PvP they are unkillable juggernauts that can easily 1vX. If anything the class needs to be nerfed into the ground. If you can't figure out how to play it that's not a class problem, that's a you problem.

You can count the number of wardens on trials leader boards on one hand (there are 2 in the top-50 for vMoL right now...). It's an awful class.

No one said it's top dps in PvE. But who cares about PvE? Lol

The majority of the player base is in PvE.

It's not useful for anything in PvE. Even as a tank/healer, they get comfortably outshined by DK and Templar.

MLGProPlayer

Eremith wrote: »

Warden was designed as a tank/heal/support class. What did you expected playing him as a DD?

Nonsense. Every class is designed to fill every role. Nobody is expecting them to match sorc DPS. But they can barely crack 30k DPS right now (that's like 10k behind every other class).

DK and Templar are both viable DPS roles despite being "designed" as the tank and healer class. What's even worse is that warden can't even compete with DK and templar in the support role (just look at leader boards). They literally have no use in PvE.

Izaki

You tried doing vMA with Cutting Dive? Its terrible, far too slow to be effective. I haven't made a magicka Warden because of the feedback on how terrible the damage output is, but I did make a stamina one. The damage itself is almost okay and on par with other stamina classes. But its so slow... And in vMA or PvP or vDSA, you can't afford slow.

aisriyth_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

You tried doing vMA with Cutting Dive? Its terrible, far too slow to be effective. I haven't made a magicka Warden because of the feedback on how terrible the damage output is, but I did make a stamina one. The damage itself is almost okay and on par with other stamina classes. But its so slow... And in vMA or PvP or vDSA, you can't afford slow.

The problem is even stam wardens can set up nasty burst. So its great in pvp but again its an issue in pve when you can burst but not sustain dps.

SanTii.92

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

You tried doing vMA with Cutting Dive? Its terrible, far too slow to be effective. I haven't made a magicka Warden because of the feedback on how terrible the damage output is, but I did make a stamina one. The damage itself is almost okay and on par with other stamina classes. But its so slow... And in vMA or PvP or vDSA, you can't afford slow.

The problem is even stam wardens can set up nasty burst. So its great in pvp but again its an issue in pve when you can burst but not sustain dps.

Stam warden can sustain dps just fine.

aisriyth_ESO

SanTii.92 wrote: »

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

You tried doing vMA with Cutting Dive? Its terrible, far too slow to be effective. I haven't made a magicka Warden because of the feedback on how terrible the damage output is, but I did make a stamina one. The damage itself is almost okay and on par with other stamina classes. But its so slow... And in vMA or PvP or vDSA, you can't afford slow.

The problem is even stam wardens can set up nasty burst. So its great in pvp but again its an issue in pve when you can burst but not sustain dps.

Stam warden can sustain dps just fine.

Let me correct myself then, sustain good dps. It's merely mediocre with great burst, makes it great for pvp.

oMrRust

I have to disagree on this. Warden is to strong for damage in pvp on medium armor classes, and light armor classes.

Hexquisite

I just started to play battlegrounds pvp, and the Wardens are killing it in those maps, they seem perfect for that style of pvp that requires teamwork, where often if you aren't a premade, you are getting odd random teams where a Wardens abilities really shines.

That said, I don't think the Devs made Wardens for the 5% of people who take PVP seriously...and thats ok. Everyone can just go back to spamming DBOS.

bloodthirstyvampire

Remember when warden was P2W and people like deltia where throwing a hissy fit, goood times

fastolfv_ESO

pvp raid lead with my warden atm, rank 30 now and i can tell you no matter how much you spec for burst its just not there, you might be able to clear out some lvl 10 noobs but all in all cliffracer isnt asmuch a dps ability as a screw you to do nothing dodgeroll stam builds and scorch beattles generally fire behind you if your moving cause zenimax and pvp servers. No cc and no execute basically put it in the corner til the class can be put together correctly

Vaoh

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have lots of playtime with Mag Warden. Undaunted rank 9 and a million solo earned AP.

DPS in PVE is definitely lacking compared to other classes. Sustain is also just as bad as other classes. Pretty sure Winter's Revenge is bugged and should be doing more damage than it currently does. One big gripe is that if I want to push up the DPS to be on par with other classes, I have to use the Bear ulti, which takes both bars, and doesn't allow me to use Meteor or Elemental Rage on fights that need it (all fights in Vet Maw for example!).

PVP Mag Warden has super high burst. You can hit 3 abilities + stun in one combat tick. This usually knocks non-tanky characters well below half health or downright kills them. Many players do not expect this.

PVP Mag Warden has the strongest somewhat-spammable, longest range, AOE heal available. If allies on the front lines are getting hurt, you just use your forest ulti. And 10 seconds later, that ulti is back up, and you can use it again. So many people underestimate this. Being able to throw the strongest heal in the game up to 36 meters away is downright powerful.

Fletcher Infection is just weak in PVP. I see it do 1-2k per tick. And remember, the ticks happen every 2 seconds. So this DPS is completely negligible. I have also used Swarming Infection, and it definitely spreads well in zerg PVP, but the damage is still tiny.

PVP Warden has the Frozen Portal spell. This is the longest range chain in the game. AND it acts as a trap, so you can place it and wait. This spell causes so many deaths to players that would otherwise manage to escape. Use it on a guarded door = guaranteed death. Use it to pull someone on the front line = guaranteed death. This also works on very uneven terrain!!! You can literally pull someone up to the top of a hill that they are unable to climb up.

Cliff Racer needs to remain undodgeable. It's one of the only counters to dodge roll spam. Those NBs that stealth, try their burst combo, and then dodge roll away have to be able to die somehow. And since Warden has no reliable CCs, this is the solution.

^^^everything here I agree with. Good observations

Also worth noting that a big part of why PvE DPS is lacking is because:

• Winter's Revenge (and possibly all Winter's Embrace skills) scale off Weapon Crit and/or simply have far less critical chance than intended
• Winter's Revenge in itself deals too little damage per tick and needs a buff
• Swarm and its morphs deals Direct Damage instead of DoT Damage, which does not benefit sets you actually use and results in a 10-20% Damage decrease based on CP allocation.

• Warden has very little damage gained through passives compared to other classes. This is a large part of why their DPS is truly terrible. Other classes have:
1. Increased damage and execute procs per damage tick (Sorc)
2. Increased damage and then further increased damage with certain effects which equates to a large DPS boost (DK)
3. Increased Critical damage by a lot (NB)
4. Increased damag, critical chance, and extra damage procs on your main spammable DPS.

A Warden has only a handful of skills to really cast, and their passives buff those with increased damage but that's it. Not nearly enough to be competitve. They are the 2nd class without a true execute ability (Bear is an Ult, and rarely slotted since it's a burden in trials). DKs have massive raw DPS (the highest atm), but Wardens have nothing of the sort.

I have said it many times..... Wrobel needs to go back and give Winter's Embrace those DPS passives/skill morphs they originally intended to when Winter's Embrace was meant to be a half support+half DPS skill tree.

Kalante

Alucardo wrote: »

OK, so I have played Warden for long enough. After getting to Major in PVP and unlocking basically everything I can in PVE, I can honestly say I'm pretty much done with the class, unless it sees some severe improvements.
If you're looking for something casual and fun to play, it's great and I would definitely recommend it. For competitive ESO, go with Sorc instead. Everybody else is anyway.

What I don't like

Gameplay feels slow
The slow gameplay. Everything is delayed. At first I thought it would great, like catching your opponents unaware with a huge amount of burst. Well, no. People are aware of Wardens now to step out of the way of Scorch, and Cliff Racer is way too slow.
I just had a 6 minute fight with a magicka sorc and literally 2 of my deep fissures landed. They saw me cast it, then would streak over me just before they landed making sure I was facing the other way. People aren't stupid ZOS.

The slow gameplay could be rectified by completing overhauling cliff racer. It's the Warden's main spammable, so it needs to be fast like every other spammable ability in this game. I would suggest removing the 15% damage from max range and replacing it with Major Breach, increasing the speed, making it shoot horizontally, and making it dodgeable (not reflectable, like Crushing Shock)

No reliable CC
The only CC wardens have is the magicka morph of Scorch (Deep Fissure). If you're fighting multiple people it only CCs one enemy, so I never really know who it will hit. I believe every class should have a reliable CC, especially classes that rely on burst combos such as magicka nightblades. So not only do we have slow combat, but we have no reliable CC to aid us in these combos, once again relying on Deep Fissure.

Maybe a morph of frozen gate could be reworked. You cast it once and it freezes the target in a kneeling position similar to fossilize. If you cast it on them again while they're frozen they get pulled to you and obviously thawed out. This can go through block

Low damage, no execute
You give the Warden slow damage abilities and no execute. Why? What was the thought process behind this? Trying to close kills on a Magicka Warden is like that feeling you get when you want to sneeze but can't quite get it out. It's frustrating.

You didn't really give us a lot of damage skills to work with, so it's hard to say where to put an execute. You can't add it to the cliff racer because that would be ridiculous, you can't put it into deep fissure because that's AOE. Fetcher infection is an option, but that's just a DoT that can be purged. I don't really know. Maybe if the first point was taken care of and had at least one faster attack we wouldn't need an execute as badly

The Passives

Winter's Embrace needs redoing. Most of the passives in there are just silly. 500 resistances for each winter's embrace skill slotted. Really? Unless you're role playing Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat you're not going to get much use out of this.
Icy Aura is supposed to dull the effectiveness of snares by 15%, but the thing is, you barely notice it. There's so much snaring you in this game that it always feels the same. Change this to something more useful, or give it an additional bonus of "Increase Physical damage by 6% to at least benefit stam wardens.

Now if you haven't already guessed this is purely from a damage role perspective. I've also healed on a Warden, and it's actually not bad at all. If you're more into support, then this class is brilliant.
But yeah, if you want to be a damage dealer, then the Warden is only useful if your opponent has the IQ and reflexes of a target dummy.

I'll be on my Sorc until you get this mess cleaned up.

You are just bad. Magicka warden is extremely strong in the right hands.

MLGProPlayer

Kalante wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

OK, so I have played Warden for long enough. After getting to Major in PVP and unlocking basically everything I can in PVE, I can honestly say I'm pretty much done with the class, unless it sees some severe improvements.
If you're looking for something casual and fun to play, it's great and I would definitely recommend it. For competitive ESO, go with Sorc instead. Everybody else is anyway.

What I don't like

Gameplay feels slow
The slow gameplay. Everything is delayed. At first I thought it would great, like catching your opponents unaware with a huge amount of burst. Well, no. People are aware of Wardens now to step out of the way of Scorch, and Cliff Racer is way too slow.
I just had a 6 minute fight with a magicka sorc and literally 2 of my deep fissures landed. They saw me cast it, then would streak over me just before they landed making sure I was facing the other way. People aren't stupid ZOS.

The slow gameplay could be rectified by completing overhauling cliff racer. It's the Warden's main spammable, so it needs to be fast like every other spammable ability in this game. I would suggest removing the 15% damage from max range and replacing it with Major Breach, increasing the speed, making it shoot horizontally, and making it dodgeable (not reflectable, like Crushing Shock)

No reliable CC
The only CC wardens have is the magicka morph of Scorch (Deep Fissure). If you're fighting multiple people it only CCs one enemy, so I never really know who it will hit. I believe every class should have a reliable CC, especially classes that rely on burst combos such as magicka nightblades. So not only do we have slow combat, but we have no reliable CC to aid us in these combos, once again relying on Deep Fissure.

Maybe a morph of frozen gate could be reworked. You cast it once and it freezes the target in a kneeling position similar to fossilize. If you cast it on them again while they're frozen they get pulled to you and obviously thawed out. This can go through block

Low damage, no execute
You give the Warden slow damage abilities and no execute. Why? What was the thought process behind this? Trying to close kills on a Magicka Warden is like that feeling you get when you want to sneeze but can't quite get it out. It's frustrating.

You didn't really give us a lot of damage skills to work with, so it's hard to say where to put an execute. You can't add it to the cliff racer because that would be ridiculous, you can't put it into deep fissure because that's AOE. Fetcher infection is an option, but that's just a DoT that can be purged. I don't really know. Maybe if the first point was taken care of and had at least one faster attack we wouldn't need an execute as badly

The Passives

Winter's Embrace needs redoing. Most of the passives in there are just silly. 500 resistances for each winter's embrace skill slotted. Really? Unless you're role playing Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat you're not going to get much use out of this.
Icy Aura is supposed to dull the effectiveness of snares by 15%, but the thing is, you barely notice it. There's so much snaring you in this game that it always feels the same. Change this to something more useful, or give it an additional bonus of "Increase Physical damage by 6% to at least benefit stam wardens.

Now if you haven't already guessed this is purely from a damage role perspective. I've also healed on a Warden, and it's actually not bad at all. If you're more into support, then this class is brilliant.
But yeah, if you want to be a damage dealer, then the Warden is only useful if your opponent has the IQ and reflexes of a target dummy.

I'll be on my Sorc until you get this mess cleaned up.

You are just bad. Magicka warden is extremely strong in the right hands.

Please show me all the magicka wardens on trials leader boards. Or is everyone there bad too?

I'm guessing they're bad, so maybe you can share your 40k+ magicka warden DPS parses. You clearly know something the rest of us don't, so please enlighten us!! Teach us how to play!!

Bouldercleave

I managed to get to lvl 27 with mine before I decided that it just was lacking. I should give it a better shot, but I prefer having fun.

MLGProPlayer

Bouldercleave wrote: »

I managed to get to lvl 27 with mine before I decided that it just was lacking. I should give it a better shot, but I prefer having fun.

It just gets worse when you try to min-max and realise how insanely underpowered it is and you can't do anything about it.

Integral1900

My stam warden kitty gets along okay, he ended up the same way as my nightblade, that being a bunch of class buffs and utility stuff to keep me alive and rip away target resistances then a two handed for the heavy work as it's nice and forgiving but mostly cos it looks and sounds so dam cool

Over all it just feels slow, like I'm waiting for a committee, I miss the fire and fury of my stam dk, nothing makes my blood sing like the dragon leap sounds and visuals... you could still sell me the game on that alone lol

ZiRM

It's ok.. some people like it others don't.

SanTii.92

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

I managed to get to lvl 27 with mine before I decided that it just was lacking. I should give it a better shot, but I prefer having fun.

It just gets worse when you try to min-max and realise how insanely underpowered it is and you can't do anything about it.

36k dps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wX4w91RKjM
Granted, got orbs for the moondancer procs. But it's just below par the rest of magicka classes. Not saying they are fine, but definetly not as bad as it is said, and most certainly you can do trials with competitive scores.

Nerouyn

I'd probably love them but ZO didn't give us an option to change classes and I'm not deleting all of the nature themed characters I made and horse fed in preparation for spellcrafting.

MLGProPlayer

SanTii.92 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

I managed to get to lvl 27 with mine before I decided that it just was lacking. I should give it a better shot, but I prefer having fun.

It just gets worse when you try to min-max and realise how insanely underpowered it is and you can't do anything about it.

36k dps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wX4w91RKjM
Granted, got orbs for the moondancer procs. But it's just below par the rest of magicka classes. Not saying they are fine, but definetly not as bad as it is said, and most certainly you can do trials with competitive scores.

That's 36k with the bear ult though (which isn't much use in trials). The other magicka classes can all hit 40k+, and get to keep destro ult.

It's also much harder for a warden to break through into a trial group than any other class. You need BiS + perfect rotation to hit 35k while other classes have much more room for error.