[ZOS] The secret to class balance, add a 4th resource

SirAndy · July 2017

Right now:

- Pure magicka builds can use their magicka pool 100% for their abilities and use their stamina pool 100% for block/dodge/roll/sprint.
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/roll/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.

Simple solution:

The only way ZOS will ever be able to balance magicka and stamina builds is to introduce a 4th resource and use it exclusively for shared activities like block/dodge/roll/sprint.

That way both magicka and stamina builds can have 100% of their main pool for their abilities and use the 4th pool for block/dodge/roll/sprint.

BigBragg · July 2017

Make it more complicated. They'll get it Jim, I swear.

Malamar1229 · July 2017

And a 5th pool for swimming

Remag_Div · July 2017

Simple solution he says...

redshirt_49 · July 2017

Oh yeah, that won't make the mag pvpers cry out in horror at all, no siree.

Tryxus · July 2017

Frost Staff?

redshirt_49 · July 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Frost Staff?

Wait, there's other staves in this game other than lightning? Huh.

devilsTear · July 2017

Does jumping use stamina?

JamieAubrey · July 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Frost Staff?

What I was going to say

Blocking with a frost staff now uses Magicka so you can just switch between them, This is what I do

JamieAubrey · July 2017

redshirt_49 wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Frost Staff?

Wait, there's other staves in this game other than lightning? Huh.

Yes, I use it with the Destro Ulti to snare people and reduce their movement speed, a lot of people forget about this, works wondering in small spaces

devilsTear wrote: »

Does jumping use stamina?

Nope

Runs · July 2017

Health - Same as now
Magicka - Same as now
Physical Magicka - Would replace Stamina based attacks, cause lets be realistic almost if not all current stamina attacks have some basis in magic.
Stamina - Block, Bash, Dodge Roll....

IcyDeadPeople · July 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

And a 5th pool for swimming

Just don't sprint, jump or roll dodge into the pool. No horseplay!

josiahva · July 2017

Runs wrote: »

Health - Same as now

Magicka - Same as now

Physical Magicka - Would replace Stamina based attacks, cause lets be realistic almost if not all current stamina attacks have some basis in magic.

Stamina - Block, Bash, Dodge Roll....

So in this situation tanks would be screwed again? Considering how much they have to block and bash.

Kodrac · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Health - Same as now

Magicka - Same as now

Physical Magicka - Would replace Stamina based attacks, cause lets be realistic almost if not all current stamina attacks have some basis in magic.

Stamina - Block, Bash, Dodge Roll....

So in this situation tanks would be screwed again? Considering how much they have to block and bash.

DPS or GTFO meta says pfffft whatevs...

Alpheu5 · July 2017

Runs wrote: »

Physical Magicka - Would replace Stamina based attacks, cause lets be realistic almost if not all current stamina attacks have some basis in magic.

It doesn't take a background in wizardry to stab someone in the face with a dagger.

Kneighbors · July 2017

1st of all there are 4 resources already in the game. Adding fifth would only complicate things up. As tou said you have non used magicka as stamina char, so for this maybe necessary to look for solution.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · July 2017

As someone who started on a stamina character, I can really relate to this. It always seemed odd to me that stamina characters need to worry about dodging, blocking, and sprinting and how that cuts into their resource pool for attacking, while magicka characters do not have any of these concerns. It 100% makes certain fights easier for magicka characters, and I know that because my second character was a magplar and maneuvering during a difficult fight felt much easier with him.

Sprinting and dodging, that totally makes sense to tie to a 4th stat ("will" or "resolve" maybe?) that we all have a standard amount of, but blocking still kind of "needs" to be stamina based, as a lot of tank abilities are based around this concept. Tanks would have to stack this resource moving forward, and their entire itemization would change and make things super messy. I do think that long term, it'd be a very nice balancing measure between magicka and stamina characters, but right now it's definitely out-of-scope.

Unless, blocking was 4th stat by default and they added a perk in sword n board that made blocking cost stamina or magicka instead (with shield equipped), depending on the morph.....

idk · July 2017

OP forgets that magicka builds has their magicka for defense as well. Shields just to name one significant aspect.

Further, a stam build has access to significant dodge roll cost reduction. Magicka does not.

Further, the OP suggestion could very well create a major issue with tanking. I think that's self explanatory.

Betheny · July 2017

I don't know why they didn't just leave it with ALL skills use magicka and the block/bash/dodge/blahblah use stamina.

Would have been the easiest solution.

Inarre · July 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Right now:
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.

Maybe I missed something, but don't many stamina users use their magic pools for their buffs and some utility? Or do all builds now just ignore these for other skills?

Stam DK: Dragon Blood, Armor, Scales, Talons ETC
Stam NB: Cloak, Fear, Shade, ETC
Stam Sorc: Crit Surge, Dark Exchange, Ward, Mines, ETC
Stam Templar: Emergency BOL, Rune, Ritual ETC
Stam Warden: Fortress, Cloak, Falcons Swiftness, Lotus Flower ETC

Sure, you can build for mag to be completely useless for a Stam character, but why would you?

DeadlyRecluse · July 2017

To fix class balance, destroy the key differences between magicka and stamina?

I really don't follow.

Betheny · July 2017

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

To fix class balance, destroy the key differences between magicka and stamina?

I really don't follow.

A pool is a pool...whether you add stats to a pool that's called magicka or stamina, the points you added would still be the same.

Kodrac · July 2017

Betheny wrote: »

I don't know why they didn't just leave it with ALL skills use magicka and the block/bash/dodge/blahblah use stamina.

Would have been the easiest solution.

Agree. They painted themselves into a corner with the stam/magicka polarity. No way out now without an NGE.

gkitti7 · July 2017

Don't know if you have ever used a magic char or not, but they have no advantage over stamina builds because they can use roll dodge or break free maybe twice in a fight.

SirAndy · July 2017

devilsTear wrote: »

Does jumping use stamina?

Not yet, but we all know it's only a matter of time before some intern at ZOS comes up with this great new idea ...

LegacyDM · July 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Right now:

- Pure magicka builds can use their magicka pool 100% for their abilities and use their stamina pool 100% for block/dodge/jump/sprint.
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.

Simple solution:

The only way ZOS will ever be able to balance magicka and stamina builds is to introduce a 4th resource and use it exclusively for shared activities like block/dodge/jump/sprint.

That way both magicka and stamina builds can have 100% of their main pool for their abilities and use the 4th pool for block/dodge/jump/sprint.

I've seen Stam nb dodgeroll 10 times in a row while still putting out high burst dps. I've seen sword and board dk and Templar tanks soak up damage, seemingly never running out of stamina, while still putting out good damage. I've seen two handers pump out crazy dps while sustaining their stamina. All with no cp.

Yet as a magicka class I can only dodge roll or break free once before being dead in the water. I have to heavily rely on pots and mist form to get out of snares and stuns. No magicka regen while in mist form and pots go on cool down.

Grass isn't greener on the other side, guy.

Stovahkiin · July 2017

Lemme get this straight OP, you want all characters to have an entire pool that they could use singularly for roll dodging if they wanted? No thanks, we've seen what roll dodge builds are like and it ain't pretty

SirAndy · July 2017

Inarre wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Right now:
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.

Maybe I missed something, but don't many stamina users use their magic pools for their buffs and some utility? Or do all builds now just ignore these for other skills?

That's why a said "pure" builds.

I have a pure magicka sorc which has a full base stamina pool to dodge/roll/block/sprint
I have a pure stamina nightblade which has a full base magicka pool that is completely useless and unused and has to use her stamina for both abilities and dodge/roll/block/sprint

One is not like the other ...

Inarre · July 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Right now:
- Pure stamina builds have to share their stamina pool for both their abilities and for block/dodge/jump/sprint and their magicka pool is completely wasted, 0% usage.

Maybe I missed something, but don't many stamina users use their magic pools for their buffs and some utility? Or do all builds now just ignore these for other skills?

That's why a said "pure" builds.

I have a pure magicka sorc which has a full base stamina pool to dodge/roll/block/sprint
I have a pure stamina nightblade which has a full base magicka pool that is completely useless and unused and has to use her stamina for both abilities and dodge/roll/block/sprint

One is not like the other ...

Well, yeah..... You are building in a way that disregards an entire pool....

The solution isnt for Zos to create a new pool for you to use, the solution is for you to use the pool that is already available to you.

SirAndy · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Further, a stam build has access to significant dodge roll cost reduction. Magicka does not.

If you re-read my initial post, i'm suggesting that it would be a lot easier to correctly balance magicka and stamina if there was a 4th resource.

That does imply changing some of the game mechanics to "balance" things. Hence my use of the world "balance". To balance magicka and stamina. As in, change the status quo to be more balanced.

Asardes · July 2017

There actually is a 4th. It's called ultimate.