Magicka Nightblade MegaThread for HotR

Zedrian

LiquidPony wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

Magicka Nightblades are the highest Magicka DPS in our trials guild from what we saw on dummy tests and perform really well in trials including vHoF. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say

@Wrobel did a lovely job with many things this upcoming patch and I'd like to make this patch not harm Night-mages like Morrrowind kinda sorta did.

They do great damage, they preserved a quick-pace combat (that the sorc lost), can survive really well depending on the morphs of skills.

My only wish is that the NB can proc Minor Prophecy when proc the spectral bow, just like the Sorc could before when using Shards. We don't see shards in trials anymore :'(

What you're missing is that Twisting Path was ninja-fixed (not listed in patch notes) to properly count as a DoT. Which is a huge nerf to Scathing Mage uptime, which is a pretty big nerf to magblade DPS.

While i agree it is somewhat of a loss in dps, scathing Mage can still proc with so many DD from the mNB. Giliamtherogue was saying that it was BiS if it procès over 58% of the time and it would be good to see if it does proc over 58% post-hotfix. Twisting Path was just bugged and exploited, but reassure yourself that now that it scales on Thaumaturge, 75 points into it and you also get Exploiter ;-). With Julianos mNB pull incredible numbers. I am not saying they are over performing but they are certainly not under-performing with a fun game play. Sorc's fast pace gameplay with a good dps got destroyed with the Morrowind patch.

laksikus

Zedrian wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

Magicka Nightblades are the highest Magicka DPS in our trials guild from what we saw on dummy tests and perform really well in trials including vHoF. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say

@Wrobel did a lovely job with many things this upcoming patch and I'd like to make this patch not harm Night-mages like Morrrowind kinda sorta did.

They do great damage, they preserved a quick-pace combat (that the sorc lost), can survive really well depending on the morphs of skills.

My only wish is that the NB can proc Minor Prophecy when proc the spectral bow, just like the Sorc could before when using Shards. We don't see shards in trials anymore :'(

What you're missing is that Twisting Path was ninja-fixed (not listed in patch notes) to properly count as a DoT. Which is a huge nerf to Scathing Mage uptime, which is a pretty big nerf to magblade DPS.

While i agree it is somewhat of a loss in dps, scathing Mage can still proc with so many DD from the mNB. Giliamtherogue was saying that it was BiS if it procès over 58% of the time and it would be good to see if it does proc over 58% post-hotfix. Twisting Path was just bugged and exploited, but reassure yourself that now that it scales on Thaumaturge, 75 points into it and you also get Exploiter ;-). With Julianos mNB pull incredible numbers. I am not saying they are over performing but they are certainly not under-performing with a fun game play. Sorc's fast pace gameplay with a good dps got destroyed with the Morrowind patch.

but it doesnt scale 100% of thaumaturge^^

BraidasNM

mnb feels rlly strong when it works but it has 3 important skills (for pvp at least) that fail half the time: assassin's will, shade, and lotus fan.

fix those and i'd have no complaints

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Did any one say magblade ?

I would like some sort of ability that improves our mobility, like shuffle.

Double take?

Double take adds dodge chance, but Cavalry is talking about mobility: i.e., shedding roots and snares like Shuffle does.

Thank you !

Subversus

@BraidasNM I agree with your point on assassins will, I completely dislike how it is now...

NyassaV

Subversus wrote: »

@BraidasNM I agree with your point on assassins will, I completely dislike how it is now...

Right?! It pisses me off but it's nice

supaskrub

What about "Impale" ?.. the last i heard was that in execute phase it was only giving 208% damage bonus against what the tooltip states as 300% (this isn't old information by the way, its still relevant as a month or so ago), with the recent fix to "Twisting Path" was "Impale" also fixed or is this a case of "it is what it is and its staying that way"?

PS4_ZeColmeia

supaskrub wrote: »

What about "Impale" ?.. the last i heard was that in execute phase it was only giving 208% damage bonus against what the tooltip states as 300% (this isn't old information by the way, its still relevant as a month or so ago), with the recent fix to "Twisting Path" was "Impale" also fixed or is this a case of "it is what it is and its staying that way"?

It's very poorly worded. From what I understand the bonus is correct but it's added before any bonuses or CP. The net result is that at full CP, swallow soul does about the same as impale. They need to do something about this as it's not worth taking a slot when it's only benefit is being slightly cheaper, I think this is on purpose and why swallow soul's cost was increased.

As it stands impale and agony are dead skills and grim is marginally less wonky because of the increase hit requirement. It needs to go back to 4 and some shuffling around on impale's execute bonus calculation pretty much fixes nightblade.

Well, that and fixing cloak...

IwakuraLain42

Abstraqt wrote: »

Light attack weaves with strife: If you cast strife then go to fire a destro light attack it sometimes just doesn't even count as an attack, it won't come up saying dodged or anything but your merciless won't proc and no damage is dealt.

That has been borked for a very long time. The only way to get this combo to weave is to let the strife animation halfway thru and then cancel it with a light attack. This is extremely cumbersome, even more so when forced to do this with a controller (the mapping of light attack to the analog trigger is a royal PITA).
This really should have been fixed a long time ago, but I've given hope for any changes or enhancement for gamepad mode (which also affect the console UI) as obviously no developer uses these ....

Zedrian

laksikus wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

Magicka Nightblades are the highest Magicka DPS in our trials guild from what we saw on dummy tests and perform really well in trials including vHoF. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say

@Wrobel did a lovely job with many things this upcoming patch and I'd like to make this patch not harm Night-mages like Morrrowind kinda sorta did.

They do great damage, they preserved a quick-pace combat (that the sorc lost), can survive really well depending on the morphs of skills.

My only wish is that the NB can proc Minor Prophecy when proc the spectral bow, just like the Sorc could before when using Shards. We don't see shards in trials anymore :'(

What you're missing is that Twisting Path was ninja-fixed (not listed in patch notes) to properly count as a DoT. Which is a huge nerf to Scathing Mage uptime, which is a pretty big nerf to magblade DPS.

While i agree it is somewhat of a loss in dps, scathing Mage can still proc with so many DD from the mNB. Giliamtherogue was saying that it was BiS if it procès over 58% of the time and it would be good to see if it does proc over 58% post-hotfix. Twisting Path was just bugged and exploited, but reassure yourself that now that it scales on Thaumaturge, 75 points into it and you also get Exploiter ;-). With Julianos mNB pull incredible numbers. I am not saying they are over performing but they are certainly not under-performing with a fun game play. Sorc's fast pace gameplay with a good dps got destroyed with the Morrowind patch.

but it doesnt scale 100% of thaumaturge^^

That's right it scales of many things like Elemental Expert, Elfborn, and so on. So does Liquid Lightning, Wall of Elements, Engulfing Flames, Vampire's bane, burning embers.... etc... essentially it is a DoT ability and should behave and scale like other dots on other classes and skill lines

Autolycus

Good suggestions OP. I support them all.

laksikus

Zedrian wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

Magicka Nightblades are the highest Magicka DPS in our trials guild from what we saw on dummy tests and perform really well in trials including vHoF. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say

@Wrobel did a lovely job with many things this upcoming patch and I'd like to make this patch not harm Night-mages like Morrrowind kinda sorta did.

They do great damage, they preserved a quick-pace combat (that the sorc lost), can survive really well depending on the morphs of skills.

My only wish is that the NB can proc Minor Prophecy when proc the spectral bow, just like the Sorc could before when using Shards. We don't see shards in trials anymore :'(

What you're missing is that Twisting Path was ninja-fixed (not listed in patch notes) to properly count as a DoT. Which is a huge nerf to Scathing Mage uptime, which is a pretty big nerf to magblade DPS.

While i agree it is somewhat of a loss in dps, scathing Mage can still proc with so many DD from the mNB. Giliamtherogue was saying that it was BiS if it procès over 58% of the time and it would be good to see if it does proc over 58% post-hotfix. Twisting Path was just bugged and exploited, but reassure yourself that now that it scales on Thaumaturge, 75 points into it and you also get Exploiter ;-). With Julianos mNB pull incredible numbers. I am not saying they are over performing but they are certainly not under-performing with a fun game play. Sorc's fast pace gameplay with a good dps got destroyed with the Morrowind patch.

but it doesnt scale 100% of thaumaturge^^

That's right it scales of many things like Elemental Expert, Elfborn, and so on. So does Liquid Lightning, Wall of Elements, Engulfing Flames, Vampire's bane, burning embers.... etc... essentially it is a DoT ability and should behave and scale like other dots on other classes and skill lines

No. It scales of MAA in some cases.

And for Assassins will, you just need 2 heavy and 1 light attack^^

Danse_Mayhem

Have to agree with Abstraqt on basically everything there. A destro ranged Magblade is pretty much the only viable pvp set up for this class - A dual world concealed weapon build will only work on weak targets and bomb blades are extremely situational... Yet if the opponent uses defensive posture, dragon wings, S&B ult or that stupid black bubble that can no longer be broken free... Then we literally have to just stand there spamming shields and fear until it goes away - this is the only class in game that gets completely boned by a single mechanic. Swallow soul and impale should not be reflectable.

Malefic wrath - Pointless compared to prolonged suffering.
Soul siphon - Costs double what the Templar and warden healing ults cost and is a much smaller range than Templar ult / cannot be targeted like Warden ult.
Summon shades - Pointless alternative to shadow image.
Bolstering darkness - Pointless alternative to veil of blades.
Blur - Both morphs very underpowered compared to similar self buffs such as shuffle, hurricane etc.
Merciless - Yeah 5 weaves with no re cast may have helped get your 2 shots against a target dummy but it sucks ass for Pvp. Especially when crystal frag is only a small amount of damage weaker, but procs a TON more, and no weaving needed.
Impale - Pointless execute as it just gets dodged in pvp always. Make this undoegable or a channeled ability? As the assassin class I feel we have the weakest execute for Pvp by far.

Magblades are like a rare Pokemon on PS4 EU... you don't ever see them around in open pvp, because people gave up on them long ago. Sure there are a few epic duellists around (Abstraqt etc) but there are so few that I'd say they are an exception.

Master_Kas

CavalryPK wrote: »

Did any one say magblade ?

I would like some sort of ability that improves our mobility, like shuffle.

So much this, if they add this to double take or mirage perhaps One can dream

kaithuzar

I don't think it's accurate to say that duel wield builds can only kill bad players. It's true you are crippling yourself because concealed strike sucks but lots of things can determine the outcome of a fight.
Actually it's not just concealed I think the biggest thing is that you are gimping yourself from not being able to weave attacks because even though you're a magic class light or heavy attacks with duel wield are physical dmg, unlike a stam class weaving in 10-15k light/heavy on top of their damaging skill. This is why I support dual wield damage being buffed and not nerfed like it was a few patches ago (The duel sword passive); even though it wasn't very much extra damage every little bit counts when you look at how much your giving up by using this place style.

Vaoh

What kind of Mag NB DPS parses are people having on PTS?

Rikkof

if they buff the already OP magblades, I guess a lot of players will just quit eso, you know, players are getting really tired of being one shoted from cloack stealth by nb gankers

Rex-Umbra

I really want shades to be buffed .

Qbiken

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Mnbs currently are overperforming pretty much everywhere, scathing nerf alone is no cause to revisit all those points.

Twisting path was never supposed to proc scathing as far as I know (it was a bug/feature since many years back. But feel free to correct me if I´ve got it all wrong) and the change to twisting/scathing was more of a fix than a nerf. Are magblade overperforming? Can´t answer that since I don´t play magblade very much (due to the lack of good/correct gear).

crobarXIII

Br1ckst0n wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Mageblades need no buff honestly. They are decent in everything. Only thing I want to improve is concealed weapon.

Obviously magicka nightblade is in a good overall place but there are still many unused skills/morphs:

• Soul Siphon
• Agony
• Debilitate
• Power Extraction (yeah its a stam morph but needs a rework regardless)
• Bolstering Darkness
• Concealed Weapon
• Dark Shades

My nb tank uses both Bolstering Darkness & Dark Shades. Bolstering is great when you want dmg mitigation & don't want to kill the adds like in the last boss of both Banished cells 2 & CoH2.

NyassaV

Personally... Just make Grim focus work like Rally and go back to 4 attacks and I won't care.

crobarXIII

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Have to agree with Abstraqt on basically everything there. A destro ranged Magblade is pretty much the only viable pvp set up for this class - A dual world concealed weapon build will only work on weak targets and bomb blades are extremely situational... Yet if the opponent uses defensive posture, dragon wings, S&B ult or that stupid black bubble that can no longer be broken free... Then we literally have to just stand there spamming shields and fear until it goes away - this is the only class in game that gets completely boned by a single mechanic. Swallow soul and impale should not be reflectable.

Malefic wrath - Pointless compared to prolonged suffering.
Soul siphon - Costs double what the Templar and warden healing ults cost and is a much smaller range than Templar ult / cannot be targeted like Warden ult.
Summon shades - Pointless alternative to shadow image.
Bolstering darkness - Pointless alternative to veil of blades.
Blur - Both morphs very underpowered compared to similar self buffs such as shuffle, hurricane etc.
Merciless - Yeah 5 weaves with no re cast may have helped get your 2 shots against a target dummy but it sucks ass for Pvp. Especially when crystal frag is only a small amount of damage weaker, but procs a TON more, and no weaving needed.
Impale - Pointless execute as it just gets dodged in pvp always. Make this undoegable or a channeled ability? As the assassin class I feel we have the weakest execute for Pvp by far.

Magblades are like a rare Pokemon on PS4 EU... you don't ever see them around in open pvp, because people gave up on them long ago. Sure there are a few epic duellists around (Abstraqt etc) but there are so few that I'd say they are an exception.

I would like to know how summon shades, bolstering darkness & mirage (blur morph) are pointless or under powered. My tank uses all 3, like I said in a previous post bolstering is great for the final boss of both banished cells 2 & CoH2 where you want to keep the adds alive. Shades let me apply minor main & allow me to conserve stamina by not using heroic slash & I don't really need the ulti from heroic slash since my ulti regen is already high. As for mirage, I'm fairly confident that every other tanking class wished they had mirage, it allows you to conserve stamina by not having to use shuffle/elude

Dottzgaming

CavalryPK wrote: »

Did any one say magblade ?

I would like some sort of ability that improves our mobility, like shuffle.

This so much. You notice it the most when attempting to play Melee magblade.

Besides the above point, concealed needs to be buffed. it's cost doesnt justify how much dmg it gives you and the stealthed movement speed. Compared to Swallow Soul as a spammable or it's stamina counterpart, it's awful by comparison.

I hate being forced into destro/resto. i find it boring after awhile and always find myself going back to melee, but it just isnt that great and has made me debate switching to stam. And i think a huge reason why melee is in the position it is is simply because concealed costs WAY too much for what it does. We either need more dmg on it, a better secondary effect from the morph, or it needs to cost less. Something needs to be changed.

Simply look at stamina with how well Ambush and Surprise attack pair together and compare it to lotus fan and concealed weapon. lotus fan and concealed is like hitting someone with a pool noodle versus playing stamina and using a grenade launcher.

i think with that and as Cav said, a mobility increase somewhere (maybe bake it in with Blur or something) and a fix to concealed and we will be in a good spot

IAVITNI

Don't take away the movement speed from concealed weapon. It's literally the greatest thing. Maybe make it apply minor Magicka Steal too

Maryal

Xvorg wrote: »

ixie wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Did any one say magblade ?

I would like some sort of ability that improves our mobility, like shuffle.

Adding a snare removal to refreshing path would be nice

During the Mythic Era, Cloak did that.

Oh how I loved the Mythic Era .... (sigh)

WildWilbur

Hollery wrote: »

Personally... Just make Grim focus work like Rally and go back to 4 attacks and I won't care.

^So much this!

Danse_Mayhem

Lol I'm sorry but saying that skills like bolstering are useful for a novelty tank for pledges just doesn't carry any weight when pledges can be ran by any 4 roles these days... I'm talking end game stuff.

Nothing wrong with blur as a skill.. But double take morph only giving 3 seconds of speed is awful... Mirage ain't too bad but when compared with what shuffle does I'm not sure it's the same level. Perhaps give double take minor expedition for the whole duration instead of major for 3 seconds? That paired with cripple would give Magblades the mobility that people want here...

crobarXIII

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Lol I'm sorry but saying that skills like bolstering are useful for a novelty tank for pledges just doesn't carry any weight when pledges can be ran by any 4 roles these days... I'm talking end game stuff.

Nothing wrong with blur as a skill.. But double take morph only giving 3 seconds of speed is awful... Mirage ain't too bad but when compared with what shuffle does I'm not sure it's the same level. Perhaps give double take minor expedition for the whole duration instead of major for 3 seconds? That paired with cripple would give Magblades the mobility that people want here...

As long as Zos doesn't give the nb tank the tools needed to be an end game tank it will never be one. I'm sure there are skilled nb tanks that can pull off end game content but I'm not one. I would really like one of the bone shield morphs to cost magicka & a good burst heal. I just really enjoy tanking in different classes for the change of pace & would like to be able to tank with every class just like I dps with every class.

As for double take having minor expedition, I like that idea but have doubts they'll do it, since the nb already has a lot of movement built in. The nb can already teleport, go invisible, get extra movement speed while invisible/stealth & has 3 abilities that grant major expedition.

Artis

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Mnbs currently are overperforming pretty much everywhere, scathing nerf alone is no cause to revisit all those points.

LOL. The class I have least troubles against in PvP. The only spec that never oneshotted me or has anything I can't play against. And in PvE? please. They are not at the top at all. Just google yourself, you'll find much higher parses in trials for other classes.

thankyourat

Artis wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Mnbs currently are overperforming pretty much everywhere, scathing nerf alone is no cause to revisit all those points.

LOL. The class I have least troubles against in PvP. The only spec that never oneshotted me or has anything I can't play against. And in PvE? please. They are not at the top at all. Just google yourself, you'll find much higher parses in trials for other classes.

Honestly magblade is my most feared class to fight because i know if I'm not careful i can be one shotted. I like fighting other good magblades because it keeps me on my toes. To bad i can't even think of 10 of us on xbox NA. I don't think they are over performing but they are definitely a major threat 1v1. The only problem is cyrodill is not 1v1. Just a few changes and i think magblade will be completely viable for open world pvp. The first is the cast time of merciless should be removed it's already a projectile and has a loud sound que the cast time is unnecessary. The second is it needs some sort of snare immunity i shouldn't have to go melee to use forward momentum to be able to move in cyrodill.