Make jumping have a stamina cost

MarekT_T

Hopping actually serves a critical purpose for those using 1-5 keys for abilities. When I'm alone fighting against groups of players advocating jump stam cost, getting airborne allows my character to continue motion when I take my finger off of WASD to hit the 3 key for example.
I use rally on my 3 key... and sometimes I need to move forward while I heal.

Apherius

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Why does it matter if someone jumps around?

Because it's boring ... the only thing i want to say them is " IT'S NOT BECAUSE YOUR JUMP THAT YOUR ARE GOOD !!! " ... but instead i Teabag them .
And i absolutely don't know why i don't like people jumping ^^"

Durham

I think for alote of players they don't think about more of a nervous thing maybe...

Glory

I find all the conspiracies about jumping giving shorter animation times or avoiding effects hilarious. So potato it's not even funny.

In addition to rhythm (although it RUINS rhythm for many players who attempt it and are bad at it), it has in past games had beneficial effects and so it is muscle memory.

Sandman929

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Jumping temporarily turns Lava Whip into Lava Naynay

Best thing I've read today. I want to see the Lava Naynay.

eol

I agree with OP, jumping having a stamina cost would be a good improvement to the game.

Of course its virtually impossible to have an intelligent discussion about this, because anything that would reduce a perceived advantage in PvP even a tiny amount is going to be resisted by the people who use it, no matter the impact on the game or the visuals or realism, ie, no matter how stupid it looks to have people jumping around like bunnies

HiImRex

you jump to maintain normal running speed while casting certain abilities that otherwise slow you down during the cast animation

also there is such a thing as overjumping which actually is a tactical mistake that you can and will get punished for

none of which matter if your pvp experience entirely consists of Xv1 and zerg-surfing, but when you're trying to squeeze out every bit of efficiency it matters that you can maintain maximum velocity toward a key position while still being able to cast key abilities

also @eol how is your argument of "lets balance combat mechanics to control visual outcomes" at all intelligent? Independent from that, EVEN assuming that the visual effect of jumping enemies is an objective problem, how is adding a stamina cost to this action an intelligent solution?

Gilvoth

i prefer 20,000 stamina cost per jump.
3 jumps should completely empty out all your stamina.

Araviel2

please don't, i can't play without jumping.
my timing gets off, and i also would not be able to target that healer who is hiding behind his tanks

Waffennacht

Araviel2 wrote: »

please don't, i can't play without jumping.
my timing gets off, and i also would not be able to target that healer who is hiding behind his tanks

You're a part of the problem.

I hate the hoppers
I hate the back and forth spazzing

I hate how you continue to do it despite losing the duel

It's stupid and anything that is reminiscent of Halo needs to BURN

Araviel2

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

please don't, i can't play without jumping.
my timing gets off, and i also would not be able to target that healer who is hiding behind his tanks

You're a part of the problem.

I hate the hoppers
I hate the back and forth spazzing

I hate how you continue to do it despite losing the duel

It's stupid and anything that is reminiscent of Halo needs to BURN

you are like one of those people who wants to break my fingers because i can play the Piano.
that problem is with you buddy, not with me.

Waffennacht

Araviel2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

please don't, i can't play without jumping.
my timing gets off, and i also would not be able to target that healer who is hiding behind his tanks

You're a part of the problem.

I hate the hoppers
I hate the back and forth spazzing

I hate how you continue to do it despite losing the duel

It's stupid and anything that is reminiscent of Halo needs to BURN

you are like one of those people who wants to break my fingers because i can play the Piano.
that problem is with you buddy, not with me.

I absolutely would not! If you can play the piano I feel that's amazing and wonderful!

I actually hate Halo, I hate Halo, I HATE HALO lol. That's the only reason it bugs me. Not your abilities

Again awesome for the piano skillz

Thogard

Let's talk about the actual mechanics behind jumping... No it doesn't help with animation cancelling, no it doesn't make abilities fire off faster (block canceling does).

But next time you're fighting a pesky stamina character that's trying to "walk through" you to break your LoS and therefore your casts, try jumping and see what happens.

Here's a hint: your character doesn't even have to be facing their direction to land a hit if you're in mid air.

Chakei

It almost seems like people are looking for things just to complain about them now. Is this really the point we've gotten to?

Thogard

Chakei wrote: »

It almost seems like people are looking for things just to complain about them now. Is this really the point we've gotten to?

Ha yeah it's evidence that the game is pretty well balanced

bebynnag

but standing opposite a zerg jumping up & down with cristalized shield active on my tank in training (stands-in-stupid) is so much fun

http://youtu.be/p_OlWN8A--Y?t=2

Maryal

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i prefer 20,000 stamina cost per jump.
3 jumps should completely empty out all your stamina.

With 30K stamina, I would run out of after 1.5 jumps ... but since ZOS's math rounds down, I would run out after only 1 jump

Merlin13KAGL

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Because people exploit jump casting to make spells and abilities that otherwise require a cast time become instant cast, such as healing ritual.

So it's an animation cancel thing? Or an actual cast time remover?

It's a none-of-the-above kind of thing.

The cast time is still there, it's just spent in the air. As has been pointed out, it's no different than bar swap cancelling, in that regard.

The point being, you can still tab target, so it doesn't do much for anyone other than a new player - no faux-dodge-chance happening with anyone that's been around 6 months or longer.

It's nothing more than an old habit, carried over from other games where it did give effective 'miss' chance. On a side note, it comes with its very own built in CC - hitting someone with knockback while they're careening through the air is ever so satisfying. Bonus points if they go off a cliff edge or land in a lava pool.

OP, there already is a cost, it's just the cost is zero.

Making it otherwise would add more server stress (it's still an action/calculation/stat change), would promote stacking stam, would give high stam characters an obvious edge, or would require the arcane equivalent to balance it out.

Taking the last one into account, it would give everyone the same cost from their respective pool, and it would have to be smaller than dodge or break free. So much smaller, in fact, that they may as well leave it as is, with cost effectively zero.

I know what you're going for here, but there is as much benefit to adding cost to jumping around like a fool as there is actually jumping around like a fool. Neither serves much purpose. (If you could actually jump over certain AoE/effects, it would be a different story. The range of the jump is so small, it's effectively pointless.)

br0steen

Sounds like lots of people get killed by others who like to jump.

I made a joke about this once talking to a guildmate, I said "everything in this game could get nerfed to the point where people would start calling for a nerf to something like jumping or emotes because that was the distinguishable pattern of people who killed those complaining."

Should we make tbagging cost magicka next?

thankyourat

Lol i jump so much. I get it from playing other games though mainly shooters like overwatch. Jumping and croutching makes it harder for your opponent to land head shots in that game and its just muscle memory

Sandman929

thankyourat wrote: »

Lol i jump so much. I get it from playing other games though mainly shooters like overwatch. Jumping and croutching makes it harder for your opponent to land head shots in that game and its just muscle memory

You do jump a lot, which is why I was making fun of you by jumping back near Bleakers. At least I think it was you, I can't imagine too many ThankYouRat's running around.

BTW, thanks for not killing me when I stopped moving, freaking TV shut off for some odd reason....still a little peeved at the times you did kill me when I was moving though.

Sandman929

br0steen wrote: »

Sounds like lots of people get killed by others who like to jump.

I made a joke about this once talking to a guildmate, I said "everything in this game could get nerfed to the point where people would start calling for a nerf to something like jumping or emotes because that was the distinguishable pattern of people who killed those complaining."

Should we make tbagging cost magicka next?

Tbagging should at least result in some sort of long debuff as the result of intercourse with a corpse.

thankyourat

Sandman929 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lol i jump so much. I get it from playing other games though mainly shooters like overwatch. Jumping and croutching makes it harder for your opponent to land head shots in that game and its just muscle memory

You do jump a lot, which is why I was making fun of you by jumping back near Bleakers. At least I think it was you, I can't imagine too many ThankYouRat's running around.

BTW, thanks for not killing me when I stopped moving, freaking TV shut off for some odd reason....still a little peeved at the times you did kill me when I was moving though.

Lol you aren't the only one. It was a group of players who killed me and they just kept jumping on my body. I've also had a guy tell me my jumping was a glitch and it was causing his dizzing swing to miss.

Sandman929

thankyourat wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lol i jump so much. I get it from playing other games though mainly shooters like overwatch. Jumping and croutching makes it harder for your opponent to land head shots in that game and its just muscle memory

You do jump a lot, which is why I was making fun of you by jumping back near Bleakers. At least I think it was you, I can't imagine too many ThankYouRat's running around.

BTW, thanks for not killing me when I stopped moving, freaking TV shut off for some odd reason....still a little peeved at the times you did kill me when I was moving though.

Lol you aren't the only one. It was a group of players who killed me and they just kept jumping on my body. I've also had a guy tell me my jumping was a glitch and it was causing his dizzing swing to miss.

I don't know about the Dizzying Swing, but none of my headshots were landing.

Thogard

Jumping is the only way to be actively running away and still landing light attacks and targeted skills on the people chasing you. Jumping removes the directional LoS check (but not the object LoS check) from your character.

Irylia

Jumping around can displace your characters location after a stun. As opposed to being stunned where you were standing you are now stunned by moving in the direction of your "bunny hop" and this can dodge incoming attacks that are used after the stun.

Being stunned mid air is also easier to break free from and regain control of your characters movement and continue attacking as opposed to being stunned to the ground, breaking and having to stand back up.

It feels fluid and can provide some "mystery" causing your opponents to misread patterns/movements/potential play.

At least for sorc. It doesn't hinder our casting.

Besides if it makes you mad, why not.

Mojmir

Sure,but only in cyrodiil
You know that won t happen

Lore_lai

Irylia wrote: »

Jumping around can displace your characters location after a stun. As opposed to being stunned where you were standing you are now stunned by moving in the direction of your "bunny hop" and this can dodge incoming attacks that are used after the stun.

Being stunned mid air is also easier to break free from and regain control of your characters movement and continue attacking as opposed to being stunned to the ground, breaking and having to stand back up.

It feels fluid and can provide some "mystery" causing your opponents to misread patterns/movements/potential play.

At least for sorc. It doesn't hinder our casting.

Besides if it makes you mad, why not.

Odd that you like that (if it's the same thing I think you're referring to)- kinda like the small half-floppy fish that can occur sometimes with incap (or other knockdowns/knockbacks), where you slide a bit on the floor?
I can tell for sure that it happens more if I get CC'd mid-jump than if I'm just moving normally (not that bunny hopping is not absolutely moving normally ).
Sometimes I get CC'd like that and slide *towards* the enemy. But I guess I can attribute that to position desynchs at the time the CC connects.