How much DPS without crafted potions?

Bladerunner1

What's considered to be very good single target DPS when using cheap stamina/magicka potions that drop from mobs? This would be in a scenario like vet pledges.

tommalmm

It really depends on class, proficiency at your rotation, type of rotation, cp, etc. You can quite often get all the boons from skills (actively or passively), like power surge, inner light, etc. So quite often there will be no DPS loss at all (especially with heavy attack builds, where sustain is not an issue, so longer regen times granted by crafted potions don't really matter at all). You might loos some uptime on buffs, if you're not good at keeping them 100% of the time.

So the only possible answer is "it depends".

code65536

I only use crafted potions in vet trials.

I use trash mag pots for pledges (yes, even vet HM DLC pledges), vMA, and pretty much everything else.

X3ina

If you or your teamnates (dks) use specific class buffs, then its minimal. And i wouldn't use crafted potions in vet pledges anyway

lolo_01b16_ESO

Well, if you use skills instead of potions to get the buffs (major sorcery, prophecy or brutality, savagery), you'll lose 5-10% dps at most, depending on your class.
So I'd say very good dps starts somewhere around 35k depending on the support in your group.

Asardes

About 28-30K on mag sorc w/o pet, self buffed using surge and only sustained with dropped pots and HA. Suffices for vet dungeons, normal trials and even vet if not going for score or HM.

Waffennacht

I'm glad I read these posts. Had no idea potion buffs were so vital (impactful?) as 10% (probably higher end number) because I only use class buffs/trash pots (crafted for PvP)

Now I wonder:

Using trash pots and self buffed, without any trial gear, without vMA weapons, without gold jewelry, solo, what's the dps expected there?

Bladerunner1

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm glad I read these posts. Had no idea potion buffs were so vital (impactful?) as 10% (probably higher end number) because I only use class buffs/trash pots (crafted for PvP)

Now I wonder:

Using trash pots and self buffed, without any trial gear, without vMA weapons, without gold jewelry, solo, what's the dps expected there?

That's what I'd like to know as well. Or even with all BIS gear and 630 CP. My math could be wrong, but when major crit and major damage buffs from potions are dropped there's around 15-20% loss to DPS, so people may or may not be inclined to swap skills around to get some of the buffs back. But how much cheap DPS is possible in 4-person vet dungeons?

Bladerunner1

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, if you use skills instead of potions to get the buffs (major sorcery, prophecy or brutality, savagery), you'll lose 5-10% dps at most, depending on your class.
So I'd say very good dps starts somewhere around 35k depending on the support in your group.

Thanks.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

tommalmm wrote: »

It really depends on class, proficiency at your rotation, type of rotation, cp, etc. You can quite often get all the boons from skills (actively or passively), like power surge, inner light, etc. So quite often there will be no DPS loss at all (especially with heavy attack builds, where sustain is not an issue, so longer regen times granted by crafted potions don't really matter at all). You might loos some uptime on buffs, if you're not good at keeping them 100% of the time.

So the only possible answer is "it depends".

Can you get away without crafted pots, sure. Most classes/builds can get their buffs elsewhere. That said, it is ALWAYS a dps loss. Potions can be consumed independently of global cooldowms, skills like power surge cannot. Every time you cast surge, you are foregoing another potential skill, which is by definition a dps loss.

MyrddinEmrys

I run a BSW/Illabris build with Mothers Sorrow staves and jewelry (purple). Self-buffed (running Inner light and Power Surge). I do not use crafted potions. I am CP 350.

Completely solo on a target skeleton I can hit ~30k DPS depending on how lucky I get with procs. If I have my wife, a healer/support, cast her support skills such as elemental drain and combat prayer, but do absolutely nothing in the way of damaging the skelly, I can easily hit 35k+ DPS. I hope to be able to hit at least 45k DPS in a trial once I max out CP.

By the way the gear I am running is not BiS, so with an overhaul I could probably break 50k in the end, however I enjoy this build and don't see a reason to ruin my fun for the sake of 1-2% more DPS.

tommalmm

On my magsorc I'm loosing only about 1-1.5k dps by slotting surge, wasting one GCD every ~30 seconds and using trash pots. But it's a lazy heavy attack build I use for vet dungeons. With some more complicated and resource heavy rotation it is more like 2-2.5k. I was able to get 33-34k on a robust skeleton, self buffed, trash pots only (I'm at CP cap, I was using double lightning staves, some see it as "cheating"). The loss is muuuuch bigger without replacing skills (the fight takes longer, you struggle more for resources, plus the lack of the buff itself).

As far as vet dungeons are concerned, though, using crafted pots is, IMO, just a waste of gold. Pretty much all of them are easy as pie if both DDs can pull ~15k (which isn't really that uncommon, I do actually see this scenario much more often than both DDs pulling 30k+), tank adds ~3-5k and heal throws his/her ~7-8k (which totals to ~40k). Sure, you won't beat HM in 30 seconds, but there is really no reason to. Anything above that is actually an excess. When I get a group that can pull ~60k combined dps (so on average DDs are getting ~25k), pretty much everything can be burned without any regards to mechanics.

So in vet pledges scenario, there is really no reason to use crafted pots, unless you either don't care (long time player, milions of gold banked), or simply have to, because your build has no place for buffs or you can't get the buffs otherwise and it would mean dropping below acceptable dps threshold. Vet pledges are hard only if DDs can't get past 8-10k barrier (IMO, the minimum for a somewhat comfortable vet dungeon clear is more like 12k per DD, though it varies a bit depending on a dungeon, for normal dungeons it's more like 5k per DD).

It's just a common misconception that you need a stellar DPS to queue for vet dungeons. If you get issues with DDs pulling ~15k each it's most likely their lack of situational awareness (not following mechanics, standing in aoe, dying to oneshots) rather than their DPS. This and unshielded vampires at stage four in vCOA2 ... Poor tanks and healers can also screw a run.

But, as it has already been stated above, anything between 30-35k is reasonably achievable on thrash pots, and I would still call it a very good dps.

Vapirko

It really really depends, on class, on your latency, on your abilities as a player. Don't be discouraged if you start out around 20k dps or lower. If you can hit 25k dps consistently self buffed you're in a good place and should even be able to do vet trials with a good team and understanding of mechanics. And this should be achievable on almost any class without BiS gear, just decent gear and the right rotation and cp allotment. Stamina classes in particular can be tough to master.

SquareSausage

This vid shows 35k dps with trash pots on dummy, but got it up to 38k when i actually hit all my weaves and had a good rng on crits lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k18ofArANE

Waffennacht

Any Warden numbers?

Masel

Waffennacht wrote: »

Any Warden numbers?

Can do 32k with trash potions on a warden heavy attack build. Yes that is a thing

Masel

All done on the same build with trash potions:









Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

Gilliamtherogue

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Potions can be consumed independently of global cooldowms, skills like power surge cannot.

Potions are on the GCD actually, but do not incur one for being consumed. You cannot drink a potion while on an active GCD.

Bladerunner1

Masel92 wrote: »

All done on the same build with trash potions:
Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

Thanks for that, Now I wonder where stam DPS builds are without the crafted potions.

Asardes

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

All done on the same build with trash potions:
Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

Thanks for that, Now I wonder where stam DPS builds are without the crafted potions.

Depends a lot on their class skills. If they can get brutality from those they can still do high DPS. A particular example is DK, where one morph (molten armaments) gives you heavy attack bonus while the other (ingenous weapon) gives you brutality. Since you want to use heavy attacks in your rotation to optimize DPS, damage without brutality potions will be lower. Stamina templar is the only class that gets no brutality from its skills, but on the other hand has the least penalty for using 2H which has rally, because it has a class spammable which gives savagery, meaning they don't need to slot hunter skill to get that. NB has both a skill that gives brutality and AoE damage and multiple stamina morphs. So it won't be penalised a lot if uses that skill with 2W, or it goes 2H and uses the class skills for DPS.

DeHei

I need use Degeneration instead Inner Light with poor potions. After change it and try to do good DPS, i lose 5k+ DPS. My best single target DPS atm was on 35k so i lose 15-20% DPS...

DeHei

Masel92 wrote: »

All done on the same build with trash potions:









Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

With or without support?

Masel

DeHei wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

All done on the same build with trash potions:









Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

With or without support?

Just myself, nothing else. Not even Ele drain, but the other morph of it that doesnt giive magcika back.

DeHei

Masel92 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

All done on the same build with trash potions:









Again, warden is the weakest out of them all...

With or without support?

Just myself, nothing else. Not even Ele drain, but the other morph of it that doesnt giive magcika back.

Minor slayer over which set?