How to....deal with poison.

SnowTheMadDog

I'm struggling alot atm in BG and 1vx in Cyrodill against poison users...
It seems that every single stam user are using poison that drain my mana and rise the cost of my spells. I play magDK so ressources management isn't that easy. Desert rose helps, sure, but it's not enough when i'm facing more than two of em. Non-stop poison on my face, my mana bein drain so fast...

If another mDK have any advice, i'll take it, coz i'm getin realy sick of that *** to the point i consider quiting the game

Waffennacht

If you REALLY want to hard counter poisons, and I mean hard counter them. Get yourself Wyrd Tree, preferably backbar weapon(s) and you'll remove those poisons on command.

I did the math once and it should come out to like a 75% reduction on their poison up time (depending on players play obviously

SnowTheMadDog

So that's it? to counter dat *** i need to wear a set that will *** my sustain even more? ^^

IxskullzxI

Yeah I mean you don't really have many options. Poisons need to go. They are stupid, especially as a mag dk. Unless you like adding 30% cost to your 3.5k+ spells. I would rather see poisons go before proc sets honestly.

DTStormfox

I totally agree. Especially those cost increase poisons basically telling you: "*** (no-cp) balance"
Personally I play in No-CP campaign all the time and sustain is the most important part of the gameplay in there. However these cost increase poisons basically ruin your build in terms of sustain. Wyrd Tree set is not a solution. The set can only cleans every 15 seconds. While poisons can proc every 4 seconds (correct me if I am wrong).

wendal

You could try poison resist glyphs on jewels and last case scenario race changing to bosmer for the racial passive. I'm not sure if that will have the desired effect on the poisons applied via weapons though? if anyone can confirm from testing it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if it works on the chance to apply, damage or overall effect... As far as I recall the tooltips just state "increase your resistance to poison" which isn't too specific, but perhaps I'm overthinking it...

DTStormfox

@wendal you probably never played MagDK, because it doesn't work with a Bosmer and you need your jewelry for magicka recovery/cost reduction/spell damage. Running anything else will make playing a MagDK nearly impossible to be fun.

geonsocal

it costs about a bazillion magicka points to use - but, I've started equipping purge on all my non-templar characters - even the stamina focused ones...

wendal

A fair assumption sir, I've always been stam or hp based. It's the orc in me

SnowTheMadDog

have ZoS said anything about that that topic?

DemonDruaga

Get yourself a purge bot
Sh*t poisons

TheDoomsdayMonster

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you REALLY want to hard counter poisons, and I mean hard counter them. Get yourself Wyrd Tree, preferably backbar weapon(s) and you'll remove those poisons on command.

I did the math once and it should come out to like a 75% reduction on their poison up time (depending on players play obviously

Wyrd Tree wont do a thing...

You cannot cleanse Resource Poisons...period.

All you can do is let them run their course; in combat this usually equals death however...

TheDoomsdayMonster

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Yeah I mean you don't really have many options. Poisons need to go. They are stupid, especially as a mag dk. Unless you like adding 30% cost to your 3.5k+ spells. I would rather see poisons go before proc sets honestly.

100% agree...

I can deal with raw damage; you can build with as much defense as is needed to counter that...

There is no counter to Resource Poisons...

You cant cleanse them and you cant stop it from happening (being Poisoned)...

The Devs need to provide a counter for these asap...

devilsTear

Rework the snakeblood passive so that it now reduces the effects of player poison too

Waffennacht

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you REALLY want to hard counter poisons, and I mean hard counter them. Get yourself Wyrd Tree, preferably backbar weapon(s) and you'll remove those poisons on command.

I did the math once and it should come out to like a 75% reduction on their poison up time (depending on players play obviously

Wyrd Tree wont do a thing...

You cannot cleanse Resource Poisons...period.

All you can do is let them run their course; in combat this usually equals death however...

I can't say for certain but back when they were 60%, Templars could purge it. I also really do believe they can be removed.

Wyrd tree has X2 magicka Regen, so it won't hurt sustain as much.

I really doubt poisons are unpurgeable

worsttankever

devilsTear wrote: »

Rework the snakeblood passive so that it now reduces the effects of player poison too

Would love to see that passive actually be useful for something!!

TheDoomsdayMonster

Waffennacht wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you REALLY want to hard counter poisons, and I mean hard counter them. Get yourself Wyrd Tree, preferably backbar weapon(s) and you'll remove those poisons on command.

I did the math once and it should come out to like a 75% reduction on their poison up time (depending on players play obviously

Wyrd Tree wont do a thing...

You cannot cleanse Resource Poisons...period.

All you can do is let them run their course; in combat this usually equals death however...

I can't say for certain but back when they were 60%, Templars could purge it. I also really do believe they can be removed.

Wyrd tree has X2 magicka Regen, so it won't hurt sustain as much.

I really doubt poisons are unpurgeable

Go and try it right now and come back to the forum with your results...

Me and some of my friends have tested it repeatedly; they cannot be cleansed/purged...

And no, Resource Poisons were never cleansable...ever.

Sleezly

Totally agree on making the snake blood passive to counteract poisons at least somewhat. Maybe reduce the effectiveness of poisons by 50%...

OP, I had the exact same question for the reddit community. The general consensus was to fight fire with fire by equipping poisons yourself.

Here's the thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/6kh0nh/dealing_with_poisons_in_bgs/

Waffennacht

@TheDoomsdayMonster I have found a post from a reliable source @FENGRUSH made in 2016. In his post he makes the implication that poisons were able to be purged. I have not read in any ZoS patch notes that they were meant/made to be unpurgeable

You may have found a stealth nerf or bug.

Here is @FENGRUSH quote

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Doesnt matter if you build resource management and youre trying to win a fight outnumbered at 1:3 or 1:4 odds and the whole group of majority is using resource poisons keeping them on you the entire time. 60% is huge, and people win just by having numbers staying alive (which just so happens to be extremely easy now with new equipment). These poisons are awful. If you try dueling and one guy is using this and the other isnt, they arent even remotely even.

@FENGRUSH I don't see how you can put out cancer build videos and then argue against poisons. The hypocrisy is amazing. Most proc builds don't actually need to cast skills to do damage, so why are you worried about resources?

EMBRACE THE POISONS.

But seriously, why can't someone slot efficient purge and invest in magicka sustain? I think it is a good thing that cleanses are becoming more important in addition to raw healing power.

Lastly, poisons are the one of the few things that remain effective against heavy armor and poisons allow the reduce cost from medium to really shine, giving medium some degree of usefulness.

Of course tanky players using poisons are difficult to 1vX but this may be a result of the meta that you directly encouraged. Reap what you sow my friend.

Those sets should have been nerfed, and likely will be. They are a completely seperate issue from proc sets. Having purge is not a good response to people trying to fight 5v20 and 20 people slotting resource poisons, they will crush their resources by constantly reapplying even after being purged. Poisons shouldnt be 'a counter to heavy armor'. Heavy armor issues is again... another isolated issue.

Its like saying destro ult is fine because stam has proc sets. You literally will fix nothing if you say one thing is fine because it counters another broken thing.

kessik221

If poisons are crippling your play to the point of quitting then its a l2p issue. Check out some of the popular magdk builds like blob eso.

Waffennacht

kessik221 wrote: »

If poisons are crippling your play to the point of quitting then its a l2p issue. Check out some of the popular magdk builds like blob eso.

Well if they are in fact unpurgeable, then a 30% cost increase to a DK in an already nerfed environment, at the top end of play, can be excruciatingly impeding.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Waffennacht wrote: »

@TheDoomsdayMonster I have found a post from a reliable source @FENGRUSH made in 2016. In his post he makes the implication that poisons were able to be purged. I have not read in any ZoS patch notes that they were meant/made to be unpurgeable

You may have found a stealth nerf or bug.

Here is @FENGRUSH quote

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Doesnt matter if you build resource management and youre trying to win a fight outnumbered at 1:3 or 1:4 odds and the whole group of majority is using resource poisons keeping them on you the entire time. 60% is huge, and people win just by having numbers staying alive (which just so happens to be extremely easy now with new equipment). These poisons are awful. If you try dueling and one guy is using this and the other isnt, they arent even remotely even.

@FENGRUSH I don't see how you can put out cancer build videos and then argue against poisons. The hypocrisy is amazing. Most proc builds don't actually need to cast skills to do damage, so why are you worried about resources?

EMBRACE THE POISONS.

But seriously, why can't someone slot efficient purge and invest in magicka sustain? I think it is a good thing that cleanses are becoming more important in addition to raw healing power.

Lastly, poisons are the one of the few things that remain effective against heavy armor and poisons allow the reduce cost from medium to really shine, giving medium some degree of usefulness.

Of course tanky players using poisons are difficult to 1vX but this may be a result of the meta that you directly encouraged. Reap what you sow my friend.

Those sets should have been nerfed, and likely will be. They are a completely seperate issue from proc sets. Having purge is not a good response to people trying to fight 5v20 and 20 people slotting resource poisons, they will crush their resources by constantly reapplying even after being purged. Poisons shouldnt be 'a counter to heavy armor'. Heavy armor issues is again... another isolated issue.

Its like saying destro ult is fine because stam has proc sets. You literally will fix nothing if you say one thing is fine because it counters another broken thing.

Resource Poisons have never been purgable...ever....believe me, I've tried.

They are not purgable now and haven't been since they were introduced into the game...

Waffennacht

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@TheDoomsdayMonster I have found a post from a reliable source @FENGRUSH made in 2016. In his post he makes the implication that poisons were able to be purged. I have not read in any ZoS patch notes that they were meant/made to be unpurgeable

You may have found a stealth nerf or bug.

Here is @FENGRUSH quote

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Doesnt matter if you build resource management and youre trying to win a fight outnumbered at 1:3 or 1:4 odds and the whole group of majority is using resource poisons keeping them on you the entire time. 60% is huge, and people win just by having numbers staying alive (which just so happens to be extremely easy now with new equipment). These poisons are awful. If you try dueling and one guy is using this and the other isnt, they arent even remotely even.

@FENGRUSH I don't see how you can put out cancer build videos and then argue against poisons. The hypocrisy is amazing. Most proc builds don't actually need to cast skills to do damage, so why are you worried about resources?

EMBRACE THE POISONS.

But seriously, why can't someone slot efficient purge and invest in magicka sustain? I think it is a good thing that cleanses are becoming more important in addition to raw healing power.

Lastly, poisons are the one of the few things that remain effective against heavy armor and poisons allow the reduce cost from medium to really shine, giving medium some degree of usefulness.

Of course tanky players using poisons are difficult to 1vX but this may be a result of the meta that you directly encouraged. Reap what you sow my friend.

Those sets should have been nerfed, and likely will be. They are a completely seperate issue from proc sets. Having purge is not a good response to people trying to fight 5v20 and 20 people slotting resource poisons, they will crush their resources by constantly reapplying even after being purged. Poisons shouldnt be 'a counter to heavy armor'. Heavy armor issues is again... another isolated issue.

Its like saying destro ult is fine because stam has proc sets. You literally will fix nothing if you say one thing is fine because it counters another broken thing.

Resource Poisons have never been purgable...ever....believe me, I've tried.

They are not purgable now and haven't been since they were introduced into the game...

Why thank you very much I'm glad to know this

IxskullzxI

kessik221 wrote: »

If poisons are crippling your play to the point of quitting then its a l2p issue. Check out some of the popular magdk builds like blob eso.

It definitely isn't a l2p issue. Sorry to break it to you, but you aren't going to sustain when your skills are costing over 4k a piece to cast.

NBrookus

wendal wrote: »

You could try poison resist glyphs on jewels and last case scenario race changing to bosmer for the racial passive. I'm not sure if that will have the desired effect on the poisons applied via weapons though? if anyone can confirm from testing it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if it works on the chance to apply, damage or overall effect... As far as I recall the tooltips just state "increase your resistance to poison" which isn't too specific, but perhaps I'm overthinking it...

It does not apply to alchemical poisons, but rather to poison damage from a few armor sets, poison enchants and certain skills that specifically do poison damage.

Crafted alchemical poisons really have no counter.

Crusades

Wings

Xvorg

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

So that's it? to counter dat *** i need to wear a set that will *** my sustain even more? ^^

Wyrd tree has some of the best sustain in heavy armor

SnowTheMadDog

It's nowhere neart desert rose, alteration, seducer...

Chilly-McFreeze

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

It's nowhere neart desert rose, alteration, seducer...

Good that he said "Wyrd tree has some of the best sustain in heavy armor". Put the free purge in your calculation and the numbers get even better.

HeathenDeacon

devilsTear wrote: »

Rework the snakeblood passive so that it now reduces the effects of player poison too

GENIUS.

Izaki

DTStormfox wrote: »

I totally agree. Especially those cost increase poisons basically telling you: "*** (no-cp) balance"
Personally I play in No-CP campaign all the time and sustain is the most important part of the gameplay in there. However these cost increase poisons basically ruin your build in terms of sustain. Wyrd Tree set is not a solution. The set can only cleans every 15 seconds. While poisons can proc every 4 seconds (correct me if I am wrong).

Poisons proc every 10 sec with a proc chance of 20%. Only one poison can proc at a single time.

Damage enchants (fire, shock, disease) proc every 5 seconds.

Utility enchants (crushing, berserker, weakening) proc every 10 seconds.