Cyrodiil Zone Chat, zergs and Server Crashes

GeorgeBlack

Opening another topic for discussion in an attempt to improve AvAvA. The current state of the main PvP aspect of the game is downtime map capping and toon switching for AP farming.
I though that AvAvA meant the strongest, smartest alliance will be the victor. Nope.
Zergs are very unpleasant but they are the way to take over the map. Due to zerging we experience endless loading screens, lag and server crashes. Do not wait for ZOS to improve server capabilities. Look for other solutions

I would like to suggest a way in order for organized PvP guilds to play strategically in Cyrodiil, spread the fight across all keeps and make sieging, scouting and ganging the way to win Campaigns, while also minimazing the chances of server crashing due to annoying zergs.

■■■TOPIC UPDATE■■■
After lengthy discussions it seems that a better idea would be to remove Map Icons in order to avoid zerg gathering at hotspots
■■■TOPIC UPDATE■■■



Remove Zone chat from Cyrodiil. No more LFG, no more massive zergs gathering at occuring hot spots.

Eso PvPrs should join PvP guilds and fight for their alliance, using tactics and organizations.

Each alliance has strong groups. Each alliance has strong leaders.
However zone chat creates zerging. No zone chat would mean smaller smarter groups fighting across Cyrodiil.
I just hope that there won't be LFG guilds forming, in order to replace Cyrodiil Zone chat. Personally I wouldn't join such a guild using 1/5 slots for pug Cyro LFG

Btw.. those of you that go in Cyro solo are either killing pugs, or form pugs that get killed by AP farmers, so zone chat ain't much of use to you.


REMOVE ZONE CHAT FROM CYRODIIL FOR LESS ZERGS, MORE SIEGE ACROSS THE MAP.
At least for Vivec

@Etaniel suggested removing map siege/fight indicators which would help.

Koolio

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Opening another topic for discussion in an attempt to improve AvAvA. The current state of the main PvP aspect of the game is downtime map capping and toon switching for AP farming.
I though that AvAvA meant the strongest, smartest alliance will be the victor. Nope.
Zergs are very unpleasant but they are the way to take over the map.

I would like to suggest a way in order for organized PvP guilds to play strategically in Cyrodiil, spread the fight across all keeps and make sieging, scouting and ganging the way to win Campaigns.

Remove Zone chat from Cyrodiil. No more LFG, no more massive zergs gathering at occuring hot spots.

Eso PvPrs should join PvP guilds and fight for their alliance, using tactics and organizations.

Each alliance has strong groups. Each alliance has strong leaders.
However zone chat creates zerging. No zone chat would mean smaller smarter groups fighting across Cyrodiil.
I just hope that there won't be LFG guilds forming, in order to replace Cyrodiil Zone chat. Personally I wouldn't join such a guild using 1/5 slots for pug Cyro LFG

Btw.. those of you that go in Cyro solo are either killing pugs, or form pugs that get killed by AP farmers, so zone chat ain't much of use to you.


REMOVE ZONE CHAT FROM CYRODIIL FOR LESS ZERGS, MORE SIEGE ACROSS THE MAP.

I've thought this way as well.

GeorgeBlack

Let's tell @Zos

Miruku

Prootch will have a shattering *** because of this.
And big boss would cry and uninstall.

Sandman929

I'd want to remove zone chat simply because it's a text-based cesspool filled with the most ignorant, pointless, and ego-filled drivel I've ever witnessed.
Some nights, it makes the entirety of the internet look like a giant Mensa meeting.

Turelus

I broke your logic already.

1. Get into Cyrodiil.
2. Push M (or console equivalent)
3. See where siege marks are.
4. Ride there.
5. Follow everyone else there.

The reason zergs and massive comings together happen is because people want to PvP, so they go where the action is.
They also group with other players because of safety in numbers and the ability to find more fights by travelling with numbers.

You're not going to break up zergs by trying to do detrimental effects. What you need to do is find reasons why it's beneficial to have groups spread out, like requiring points A, B & C to be held to conquer D.
This is what CCP Games did with EVE Online in order to spread fleets across a constellation during sov contesting, but even then you will still have one system which sees massive numbers clash because one large decisive victory will normally win you the field long enough to win an objective.

Also the above system would only work in people wanted to win campaigns, most people in Cyrodiil just want to battle other players, in which case they will always go to where the action is.

Cadbury

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd want to remove zone chat simply because it's a text-based cesspool filled with the most ignorant, pointless, and ego-filled drivel I've ever witnessed.
Some nights, it makes the entirety of the internet look like a giant Mensa meeting.

That describes pretty much any place on the Internet where people congregate and type.

GeorgeBlack

@Turelus the l0gic shatter.
Put aside your ego and the need to Lv up your forum skillz.
People don't care for incentives, they find the most profitable, shortest route and take advantage, ignoring all the hard development.
People need to be restraint.
Removing /zone will remove LFG.

Siege icons cannot shout "30 AD at Sej" or indicate how many PEOPLE ACTUALLY SIEGE.
No /zone means need for strategy.
That leads to PvP guilds and small scale.

Btw mb you can fix the EU servers crashing in Cyro with one of your ideas. Ty.

dotme

No thank you. It took over a year for console to get text chat, and I like it. I ignore the salt, but the call-outs from scouts and the ability for people to form groups is an important part of zone chat.

As long as there are battle markers on the map, people will gravitate to the fights whether zone chat is there or not.

Sandman929

Cadbury wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd want to remove zone chat simply because it's a text-based cesspool filled with the most ignorant, pointless, and ego-filled drivel I've ever witnessed.
Some nights, it makes the entirety of the internet look like a giant Mensa meeting.

That describes pretty much any place on the Internet where people congregate and type.

Zone chat is in another league. It's worse than a Jersey Shore fan-site where all the members were also childhood victims of lead paint exposure.

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus the l0gic shatter.
Put aside your ego and the need to Lv up your forum skillz.

Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

People don't care for incentives, they find the most profitable, shortest route and take advantage, ignoring all the hard development.

This is why I mate the note in the last part of my post that it only works if people care about campaign wins, which most don't.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

People need to be restraint.

Why, because you don't like the style of play so no one else should be allowed to take part in it.
Whilst there are issues with the current system making all players merge on specific locations and the lag it causes it's not fair to say people can't play in large organised groups or PUG's because it doesn't match the view you have of what Cyrodiil should be.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Removing /zone will remove LFG.
Siege icons cannot shout "30 AD at Sej" or indicate how many PEOPLE ACTUALLY SIEGE.
No /zone means need for strategy.
That leads to PvP guilds and small scale.

You don't need zone chat. You open the map and the map literally puts a giant marker to say "PvP is happening here" via either crossed sword or the keep under siege.
If I didn't have zone chat and wanted to know where the action was I would just look at that, ride there then use /say to ask for a group. No chat at all? No problem just follow the group around and mimic their actions.

This also does nothing to stop the zergs which are formed via Discord or Teamspeak. I can go make a Discord channel called "EU Vivec Pact" then make it public to everyone via these forums, then just have people write LFG in there with their user ID, even talk tactics in there if I wish.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Btw mb you can fix the EU servers crashing in Cyro with one of your ideas. Ty.

Sure, it's called actually investing in quality servers like the CCP T3 ones. However Zenimax are never going to release the money for that.

GeorgeBlack

@Turelus
No /zone fixes it with th least efford by ZOS.

Sandman929

The problem with zergs is that too many players still think there's a fix that doesn't involve getting their own group together to fight them.

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus
No /zone fixes it with th least efford by ZOS.

But it doesn't and I have just explained all the reasons why it doesn't.

If you want your idea to work you need to explain how it's also going to stop the issues I bought up including stopping out of game group forming, guild group forming etc.
Your idea only works if you isolate the players from every single form of communication possible, otherwise players can just form guilds, use out of game communications etc. to form and chat exactly the same was as zone chat currently allows with only minor hassle.

GeorgeBlack

@Sandman929
Removing zone chat will at least force player to organize in guilds within which only smaller groups will be effective forces in Cyro.

Without people indicating what's going on people won't be gathering instantly at one location.

It's like FaceBook and flash mobs or party crashing.
Trying to remove this from AvAvA

GeorgeBlack

@Turelus
Random players don't join "Ts only groups in Cyro" they type LFG, creating a group that follows the /zone directions.

People wouldn't join a "AD Cyrodiil" guild just in order to use the guild chat as /zone. There's only 5 guilds you can join. You'd want to find a very orginized guild with good crown, which goes in the same campaign, same alliance with you.
You'd want them to be people you play with. Not the Emperor wannabes that create zergs.
The chat would be closed by the majority of the active members that aren't on that Campaign, or in Cyro at that time.

Smaller PvP guilds would not have a way to communicate outside group chat or group Discord. No /zone

I doubt that 100 would join Discord and OBEY 1 person. This is mmorpg, not an army.

Etaniel

I think removing the crosses on the map and the siege markers would have a way bigger impact on gameplay than removing zone chat. In fact keeping zone chat active wihle removing the previously mentionned would go a great length in improving the tactical aspect of Cyrodiil.

GeorgeBlack

Etaniel wrote: »

I think removing the crosses on the map and the siege markers would have a way bigger impact on gameplay than removing zone chat. In fact keeping zone chat active wihle removing the previously mentionned would go a great length in improving the tactical aspect of Cyrodiil.

This guy gets it.
@Turelus

CavalryPK

Oh oh oh! how about this you take away the Z chat. but leave the /yell chat... that way only small radius can be heard.... so players only in a certain area will read it and act accordingly.

GeorgeBlack

CavalryPK wrote: »

Oh oh oh! how about this you take away the Z chat. but leave the /yell chat... that way only small radius can be heard.... so players only in a certain area will read it and act accordingly.

Would it achieve reduction of players forming LFGs and ridding to hotspots?
Removing the Icons seems like a better idea.

dotme

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Would it achieve reduction of players forming LFGs and ridding to hotspots?
Removing the Icons seems like a better idea.

I'm sorry but I think the idea is a non-starter. You make so many assumptions with no evidence at all for them. Maybe you need your own campaign. We already have "No CP" campaigns, so how about a "No Clue" campaign?

New players can join, and look at a visually dead map with no clue on where to go, how to play... sounds like a recipe for PvP abandonment to me.

Zone chat makes the campaign come alive. Yes, it's salty at times but alliance communication is a way to form friendships and build teams. It's an alliance war - it's supposed to have large battles. Small scale can be found in IC and BGs.

laksikus

Your idea seems to favor zerg groups.
24men groups build from group tool or guild, with multiple scouts

Nobody would be running around solo or in 4-5men groups, cos you cant react to anything if you remove icons or zone chat.


And if you remove zone chat, so what?
randoms will just burn a path through cyrodil
e.g. DC capping anything going east starting from bleakers to farra. randoms dont follow objectives, they go to shortest way to the next battle. And EP will do the same thing with sej...

GeorgeBlack

dotme wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Would it achieve reduction of players forming LFGs and ridding to hotspots?
Removing the Icons seems like a better idea.

I'm sorry but I think the idea is a non-starter. You make so many assumptions with no evidence at all for them. Maybe you need your own campaign. We already have "No CP" campaigns, so how about a "No Clue" campaign?

New players can join, and look at a visually dead map with no clue on where to go, how to play... sounds like a recipe for PvP abandonment to me.

Zone chat makes the campaign come alive. Yes, it's salty at times but alliance communication is a way to form friendships and build teams. It's an alliance war - it's supposed to have large battles. Small scale can be found in IC and BGs.

@dotme

I did not raise the topic because of salty /zone, i raised it cause of lag crashes.
New players can be notified upon entering Cyro about what's going on.
I don't make assumptions. You on the other hand don't seem interested in the issue of Cyrodiil Crashes and loading screens.
Make a suggestion. Your counter arguments are weak and aimed at provoking angry replies. Make suggestions on how to fix Cyrodill.

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

I think removing the crosses on the map and the siege markers would have a way bigger impact on gameplay than removing zone chat. In fact keeping zone chat active wihle removing the previously mentionned would go a great length in improving the tactical aspect of Cyrodiil.

This guy gets it.
@Turelus

We all get what you're trying to achieve, I'm just telling you your method won't work as well as you think.

Etaniel's idea would have some impact and bring what's desired. It wouldn't solve zergs entirely but it would require more tactics and player vigilance which I'm behind.

GeorgeBlack

laksikus wrote: »

Your idea seems to favor zerg groups.
24men groups build from group tool or guild, with multiple scouts

Nobody would be running around solo or in 4-5men groups, cos you cant react to anything if you remove icons or zone chat.


And if you remove zone chat, so what?
randoms will just burn a path through cyrodil
e.g. DC capping anything going east starting from bleakers to farra. randoms dont follow objectives, they go to shortest way to the next battle. And EP will do the same thing with sej...

Removing /zone chat and map indicators will leave randoms glueless and force them to join a PvP guild.

PvP guilds will have no communication with each other. They will have to decide themselves whether to siege Chalman or Kingscrest or Nikel.
PvP guilds and their leaders won't feel compelled to follow one Alliance leader one alliance leader. They will have to decide where the 24man group will move and commit to that location.

dotme

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@dotme

I did not raise the topic because of salty /zone, i raised it cause of lag crashes.
New players can be notified upon entering Cyro about what's going on.
I don't make assumptions. You on the other hand don't seem interested in the issue of Cyrodiil Crashes and loading screens.
Make a suggestion. Your counter arguments are weak and aimed at provoking angry replies. Make suggestions on how to fix Cyrodill.

You better re-read your opening post. You said "The current state of the main PvP aspect of the game is downtime map capping and toon switching for AP farming.I though that AvAvA meant the strongest, smartest alliance will be the victor. Nope.Zergs are very unpleasant but they are the way to take over the map."

You did not mention lag, crashes or loading screens (none of which I experience in Vivec very often, even when 3x Pop-locked)

What you seem to like to use are phrases like "People need to" and "Force people" - Again, who are you to tell me how to play my game?

You want suggestions? Try reading this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4263520

Note who started that conversation, and how I addressed the issue with respect instead of trying to force my views on people. You might learn something...

GeorgeBlack

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

I think removing the crosses on the map and the siege markers would have a way bigger impact on gameplay than removing zone chat. In fact keeping zone chat active wihle removing the previously mentionned would go a great length in improving the tactical aspect of Cyrodiil.

This guy gets it.
@Turelus

We all get what you're trying to achieve, I'm just telling you your method won't work as well as you think.

Etaniel's idea would have some impact and bring what's desired. It wouldn't solve zergs entirely but it would require more tactics and player vigilance which I'm behind.

Great. Can move forward from Etaniels idea and find a way to reduce zerging and increase strategy in AvAvA? Can we get @ZOS attention?

Sandman929

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Can we get @ZOS attention?

And there's the final nail in every coffin for ideas to improve Cyrodiil.

laksikus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Your idea seems to favor zerg groups.
24men groups build from group tool or guild, with multiple scouts

Nobody would be running around solo or in 4-5men groups, cos you cant react to anything if you remove icons or zone chat.


And if you remove zone chat, so what?
randoms will just burn a path through cyrodil
e.g. DC capping anything going east starting from bleakers to farra. randoms dont follow objectives, they go to shortest way to the next battle. And EP will do the same thing with sej...

Removing /zone chat and map indicators will leave randoms glueless and force them to join a PvP guild.

PvP guilds will have no communication with each other. They will have to decide themselves whether to siege Chalman or Kingscrest or Nikel.
PvP guilds and their leaders won't feel compelled to follow one Alliance leader one alliance leader. They will have to decide where the 24man group will move and commit to that location.

no.
no zone chat will force randoms to group via lfg tool or zerg guilds, with 500/500 pug members joining one guild and lfg in guild chat with coordination happening there.
And they will still zerg the nearesst targets and not follow objectivs.

Anf if you think no inter guild coordination is possible... well lets remove whisper and any form of communication all together

Turelus

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

I think removing the crosses on the map and the siege markers would have a way bigger impact on gameplay than removing zone chat. In fact keeping zone chat active wihle removing the previously mentionned would go a great length in improving the tactical aspect of Cyrodiil.

This guy gets it.
@Turelus

We all get what you're trying to achieve, I'm just telling you your method won't work as well as you think.

Etaniel's idea would have some impact and bring what's desired. It wouldn't solve zergs entirely but it would require more tactics and player vigilance which I'm behind.

Great. Can move forward from Etaniels idea and find a way to reduce zerging and increase strategy in AvAvA? Can we get @ZOS attention?

ZOS don't want to remove zerging though, not entirely.
Bomb trains they want to have counters to buy they didn't build Cyrodiil for solo and small gang only, in fact the idea was the opposite.

I've said this many times before but for me part of the skill of small gang and solo is to get out alive.
In EVE it was considered a win if you took on numbers, got kills and got out alone.
ESO it's only a win of you never die and kill everyone every single person you meet apparently.

All that said your idea to remove social chats isn't helpful for bringing new players into communities.
Sure you love the idea of clueless groupless newbies, I think that's bad for the game and unfair on new players.

GeorgeBlack

dotme wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@dotme

I did not raise the topic because of salty /zone, i raised it cause of lag crashes.
New players can be notified upon entering Cyro about what's going on.
I don't make assumptions. You on the other hand don't seem interested in the issue of Cyrodiil Crashes and loading screens.
Make a suggestion. Your counter arguments are weak and aimed at provoking angry replies. Make suggestions on how to fix Cyrodill.

You better re-read your opening post. You said "The current state of the main PvP aspect of the game is downtime map capping and toon switching for AP farming.I though that AvAvA meant the strongest, smartest alliance will be the victor. Nope.Zergs are very unpleasant but they are the way to take over the map."

You did not mention lag, crashes or loading screens (none of which I experience in Vivec very often, even when 3x Pop-locked)

What you seem to like to use are phrases like "People need to" and "Force people" - Again, who are you to tell me how to play my game?

You want suggestions? Try reading this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4263520

Note who started that conversation, and how I addressed the issue with respect instead of trying to force my views on people. You might learn something...

1)Good stuff. Cyrodiil needs improvements.
2)When you realize that ZOS cannot perform complicated changes without ruining the game you'll be less salty
3)I am expressing my opinion on how to fix lag issues in this messy Cyrodiil. Nobody can force a playstyle on others in a gaming forum.