[Hypothetical] What would happen if there WERE a global AH?

idk

Theoretically speaking, what would happen if there was not a global auction house?

Nothing. No one that has been playing the game for a bit will quit the game because there is no GAH. The market will continue to be robust and successful. The same threads by the same small percentage of the player base will continue with creating threads regularly because they refuse to adapt to change, well and those that refuse to join a guild because it is to much of an inconvenience for them.

So everything will be fine. Things will still be good.

idk

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Very realistic. It happens in games with central trading systems all the time. Just because someone does not spend much time checking out how the market actually works does not mean it does not happen. I have played central systems before. Lucrative.

kargen27

Drachenfier wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Not so unrealistic. You don't do it with the cheapest items. You do the mid to high range stuff. The already cheap stuff would become almost worthless. The prized items prices would shoot up and the mid range could be exploited by just a couple of people with a good amount of gold.

MarbleQuiche wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

I sort of disagree. I've done exactly this in other games because it was a metagame I enjoyed. At some point you'll burn out from the constant monitoring of whatever commodity you're attempting to corner, but your actions (along with others who are chasing the same niche) will raise prices.

Not exactly as was put forth, with one person buying all of one material in one fell swoop and raising the prices dramatically. Thatt's not a very sensible way to do it. You only pick off the lower price end and gradually increase the average price per unit that way. There will always be greedy people who chase the high end and, as you push the average higher they'll ensure the variance in unit costs doesn't narrow. Their greed keeps them poor and makes you money. And if the variance narrows too much, move onto another, more profitable commodity. If you're good at this, consider a career in the city. Real money tastes so much better.

Neither of these work because in an open market, someone will always be undercutting you. You can try to control the market, but you can't control the supply, and in the end, that's where your plan fails, unless you're trying to corner the stuff that only the richest of the rich can afford to buy anyway, because they're extremely rare items, which will have a high price by virtue of being...rare.

At the end of the day, this system is in play in most current popular MMO's and works exactly as a model free market economy should.

An auction house is not the open market you think it is. You do not have to control supply you just have to control the bottom end. If someone undercuts you buy everything they have and raise the price. That being said it seems you are thinking about cotton but forgetting there is also Kuta. You gotta be smart about which item you are going to control. The only other MMO I played any length of time had a really bad problem with a small number of people selectively targeting desired items and only releasing a few to be sold at any one time. Was a real problem for items recently introduced into the game. A central auction house can be manipulated much easier than the system being used now. As far as open market goes you can't get much more open than vendors side by side and scattered across the globe competing with each other.

JamieAubrey

BOTS would take advantage I'm guessing

Drachenfier

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Very realistic. It happens in games with central trading systems all the time. Just because someone does not spend much time checking out how the market actually works does not mean it does not happen. I have played central systems before. Lucrative.

No, it doesn't. You cannot control the supply. The only time I've EVER seen this happen is when games first launch and the economy is in it's infancy.

Why doesn't this happen all day every day in WoW or SWTOR? Because the supply simply cannot be controlled by one person or even a small group of individuals, especially with large populations.

Granted, I'm not talking about things like Death Totem X that only drops in one dungeon on a pvp server that's locked down by one guild, so don't come with that kind of example.

Stopnaggin

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Not really, how many people actually farm mats, so the real supply would be from a few sources. Having people undercut, which already happens now, would actully disrupt the in game economy. While it may bring a few low priced items to market at first, buyers paradise, it wouldn't last as people who are sellers would simply move on to something else. All the arguments for an ah come from a buyers perspective. Everyone can sell the way things are now. The difference is I can't buy up all of one item in one stop now, making it difficult to corner the market.

As the system is now, I have a client base that knows where to go to find my stuff. I sell easily, I also buy easily. The only thing I would change is having a search function built into each trader.

Bouldercleave

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them.

The market cannot be cornered in this way, because there is a constant and never ending influx of newly farmed resources that can be put on sale. Gold upgrade crafting mats SEEM scarce now, because:

1 - they are hard to shop for as a buyer with the current system

2 - the ones that are on sale are but a small fraction of what the player base has in its inventories but doesn't bother to sell given the limitations of the current system

But on an open market, where EVERYBODY could list them, and continue to list them every time one was extracted ... the market simply cannot be cornered with tens of thousands of people extracting and listing an ever-replenishing supply of commodities.

Wow, someone who actually knows economics. Thank you! I agree 100% by the way...

Daraugh

It would be something I actually use. I so rarely buy anything from a guild store, if they were gone I wouldn't notice. In Wow, I use the AH all of the time. It's fun and everyone has the same chance without pressure from guild leaders.

Actually, I think Zos is using the system to keep log in numbers up. If a trade guild GM has a (commonly used) rule you need to log in once a week, you lose out if you can't or just don't. You not logging in has a direct impact on *you* and Zos doesn't need to lift a finger to keep you logging in.

Malibulove

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Onefrkncrzypope

Well the it's one less reason to have a guild. This and a *pfft* group finder for trials. Might as well make erp bots to completely get rid of them... Just get used to the traders.

starkerealm

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Slightly unrealistic. More reasonable would be to pick off everything in the bottom 5% or 10%, depending on available capital, and then relist it at a higher price. Continue doing this for six or seven months though, and the end result would be the same.

Full disclosure: I JUST DID THIS TO A GUILD.

starkerealm

Malibulove wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.

idk

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Extremely unrealistic. You're acting as if the supply wouldn't change due to everyone having equal access to a central marketplace. The amount of tempering alloys that would be in supply would drastically increase compared to what you actually have access to now.

Very realistic. It happens in games with central trading systems all the time. Just because someone does not spend much time checking out how the market actually works does not mean it does not happen. I have played central systems before. Lucrative.

No, it doesn't. You cannot control the supply. The only time I've EVER seen this happen is when games first launch and the economy is in it's infancy.

Why doesn't this happen all day every day in WoW or SWTOR? Because the supply simply cannot be controlled by one person or even a small group of individuals, especially with large populations.

Granted, I'm not talking about things like Death Totem X that only drops in one dungeon on a pvp server that's locked down by one guild, so don't come with that kind of example.

I did it in SWTOR. So I know it happens in SWTOR. It does not happen with items that are a dime a dozen but with items that have a degree of rarity.

Cotton and Rubedite, not, but gold upgrade matts, especially in times when they are in slightly more demand after an update, yes it would happen. Gear level increases and expect the new matts to be controlled if it is a central system. The motifs that are harder to get, yes.

The flip side is the more common matts have their price pushed down further. The motifs more easily obtained will have their price pushed down further than it is already because not 200 people want their motif to be the next one sold. Matts in existence today will find their prices reduced greatly. All the pressure will be in one place.

Oh, and that happens in SWTOR also. It is beyond supply and demand, it is I want my Item X to be the next one to sell.

EDIT: And if you think no one has the capital to work the market well, their are players with over a hundred million gold ATM. Many with 10s of millions in gold.

Panomania

No, it doesn't. You cannot control the supply. The only time I've EVER seen this happen is when games first launch and the economy is in it's infancy.

Why doesn't this happen all day every day in WoW or SWTOR?

A few things....first you wouldnt control the total supply, no....but you could easily corner the market to a large extent and rig prices to suit yourself. Your question about why it doesnt happen in games with a global AH just show me your lack of awareness in these games, because its happened rather often in the past, especially in the two games you listed.

Here's what would happen, in my experience:

1) You'd for the short term see more market use, and lower prices. Then over time you'd see certain items become, with no reason, higher and higher in cost. It wouldnt NEED to be total market control by a few for that to happen....just controlling a decent percentage would result in changing pricing trends. To an extent we have that now after 1T and people using TTC website.

2) You'd see an increase in player traffic in some areas and a marked decrease in others. Without a reason to travel many people wouldnt. It would definitely lead to most clustering in world than we have now.

3) You would see a MASSIVE increase in bots, goldfarmers and goldsellers/spammers. One of the biggest reasons we dont see much of that in this game is that in ESO, because of the market system, its not profitable to the extent that it is in games with a global auction house.

4) You'd see a relatively big influx of more gold into the economy, increasing inflation to an extent, because of the lack of guilds collecting and spending hundreds of millions a week in trader bids.

Right now the best thing we could do is either

1) Leave things as they are, because obviously the system is working, albeit imperfectly. I can shop for what I need, to an extent, using TTCs website and Awesome Guild Store addon, and sell my wares easily enough to make a 6 to 7 figure a week income.

2) Leave varying traders in game, as we have now, but improve the UI for shopping AND add a global in game search system to the game, with the same 5 guild limit we have now. You'd see people using the market more and while you MIGHT see an increase in bots/sellers/etc it wouldnt be as bad as if it were a truly global AH.

3) Make a "bazaar" type market zone in each alliance with an increase in the number of traders available, reducing pigeonholing and cornering the market as we have now, but keeping a lot of the benefits we have now as well. Perhaps add to that the above suggestion to further improve things.

4) Scrap it all and change to the global AH we see in other games, inviting in a lot of the crap that goes with it and removing the rather unique and somewhat functional, if flawed, system we have now.

Tandor

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Well the it's one less reason to have a guild.

Actually, it's one less reason to have more than a guild. What really harms guilds in this game isn't the calls for a non-guild based trading system, it's the fact that people belong to so many guilds that for the most part they cease to be traditional guilds in which the members have a real sense of community and commitment. If the traditional guild model was adopted here then with a proper structure and with the guilds being single alliance-based then it would lead to a massive improvement in the game - but it would need to be accompanied by a different trading system.

starkerealm

Tandor wrote: »

...it's the fact that people belong to so many guilds that for the most part they cease to be traditional guilds in which the members have a real sense of community and commitment.

Yeah, I was in one of these back at launch. Every trade guild I've been a part of since the kiosks went in, has had a real sense of community, but at the same time, having been in a dead trade guild before, you're not wrong, and it is always sad to see.

starkerealm

Panomania wrote: »

...and Awesome Guild Store addon...

Yeah, Awesome Guild Store really should be the base UI. So much better than the vanilla interface.

Malibulove

starkerealm wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.

That won't stop demand though, if 1000 players need Kuta, it's irrelevant how you package it you can't meet that demand no matter how much you buy and resell.

My point is power users impact the market less in an AH system, not more.

kargen27

Malibulove wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.

That won't stop demand though, if 1000 players need Kuta, it's irrelevant how you package it you can't meet that demand no matter how much you buy and resell.

My point is power users impact the market less in an AH system, not more.

If 1000 players need Kuta the auction house is the perfect system to inflate prices. Buy the low priced ones and either relist them at a higher price or sit on them. Two or three people can watch the auction house for a couple of days and really force the price up simply by purchasing the lower priced Kuta. Once the price increases enough for a decent profit come in just under the artificial price you just created and sell like crazy. It isn't hard to do at all with only a few people willing to work together when everything is listed in one place. Power players will dominate an auction house or at least select items in the auction house. Scattering the product across many independent vendors helps slow the power players down but even with that there have been a few minor successes at manipulating prices on mid range items. One was when some players on the PTS realized there would be an increased demand for a particular item after an upgrade and went on a buying spree before the launch. Was a minor inconvenience for a few days with traders would have been a much greater problem had there been one central location.

Axoinus

The game would explode and die all the time.

A global economy based on fair market pricing(i.e. public) and rooted in the raw concepts of supply and demand will never work. It gets us far to close to "capitalism". As anyone can see in the real world, public pricing, open competition and capitalism has totally failed our society.

Therefore, it is much better to have isolated economies that can only be accessed by a limited number of people. You know, like feudal times. Dark ages was pure win for economics. Everyone knows this. This is why ZOS modeled the economy around the way things worked in the dark ages.

I will criticize ZOS in one area though. They would have done better though if different zones had different currencies. That slight change would have resulted in the best possible economic system. Seriously. Would have killed bitcoin on day one.

/sarcasm off: Because I'm tired of explaining this crap to you people.

Malibulove

kargen27 wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.

That won't stop demand though, if 1000 players need Kuta, it's irrelevant how you package it you can't meet that demand no matter how much you buy and resell.

My point is power users impact the market less in an AH system, not more.

If 1000 players need Kuta the auction house is the perfect system to inflate prices. Buy the low priced ones and either relist them at a higher price or sit on them. Two or three people can watch the auction house for a couple of days and really force the price up simply by purchasing the lower priced Kuta. Once the price increases enough for a decent profit come in just under the artificial price you just created and sell like crazy. It isn't hard to do at all with only a few people willing to work together when everything is listed in one place. Power players will dominate an auction house or at least select items in the auction house. Scattering the product across many independent vendors helps slow the power players down but even with that there have been a few minor successes at manipulating prices on mid range items. One was when some players on the PTS realized there would be an increased demand for a particular item after an upgrade and went on a buying spree before the launch. Was a minor inconvenience for a few days with traders would have been a much greater problem had there been one central location.

90 Slots won't inflate anything though.

2 or 3 players can't impact anything because a couple dozen undercuts will pop up for every price guage they try to run.

A handful of players simply don't have enough sale slots to meet the demand of all materials and items, the market will bypass them with ease.

GreyWolf_79

If there was a global AH, I would actually get to finally sell all the stuff I've been hoarding. And it would be a million times easier for me to buy the things I'm looking for.

Would it throw the current game economy into complete chaos? Yes. But seeing as how I barely get to participate in the economy as it currently stands, I couldn't care less. *shrug*

Kurkikohtaus

Interesting that most of the DETRACTORS of the Global AH are talking about the dangers of a cornered market ... but as supporters of the current system, you are all most likely SELLERS first and foremost. This is where I find the argument disingenuous. You are not ACTUALLY worried about a cornered market, you are worried about losing your well established source of income that comes through the current guild-trader system.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

A possible solution to nipping ATTEMPTS at cornering before they even happen is the GW2 "orders" system. If you are not familiar with it, look it up, it is actually pretty good. In short, you can visit an AH and place an order, for example that you want to buy 10 pieces of X at a price of Y gold per piece. A seller then instead of simply posting his items for sale looks up ORDERS and sells the materials directly to the buyer who posted the order.

In short, it's like typing a "WTB" message in chat except that it stays active and searchable for a period of time, at a price that is SET by the BUYER.

Any attempt to corner the market with this mechanism in place would be futile.

starkerealm

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

You are not ACTUALLY worried about a cornered market, you are worried about losing your well established source of income that comes through the current guild-trader system.

It's not so much that. It's worrying about the buying power of that income. Which, again, does affect everyone. That's the danger of a cornered market, particularly in a game where the amount of gold is, in fact, unlimited, on a long enough timescale.

Meld777

It would suck.

eso_lags

bring the G E

xb1LL_mr_sir_LL

AH would hurt the average eso player more than help them. the current system keeps players like me in check. with an AH i could literally be doing thousands of transactions a day. i dont care about lower prices i care about total transactions. i could price items so low it wouldn't be worth the average player even bothering with the AH. im a little fish too,what kind of chaos could the people that make a living of this game through gold do with an AH.

Kurkikohtaus

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Theoretically speaking, what would happen if there was not a global auction house?

Nothing. No one that has been playing the game for a bit will quit the game because there is no GAH. The market will continue to be robust and successful. The same threads by the same small percentage of the player base will continue with creating threads regularly because they refuse to adapt to change, well and those that refuse to join a guild because it is to much of an inconvenience for them.

(bolding done by me for emphasis)

As for the bolded text in the quote ... first of all, what do you mean "adapt and change"? It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

Secondly, I believe it is the other way around. The "small percentage" of the player base are in fact those SELLERS who post here on the forums that profit immensely from the current system. I believe the vast majority of the player base, who DO NOT VISIT THE FORUMS to begin with, would FLOCK to an open GAH to sell their stock and buy things conveniently and at lower prices.

blnchk

Restrictions to the number of items one can post in combination with fees (for posting and selling) make the re-selling business much less attractive, in my personal experience. Sensible fees could also function as another gold sink which, apparently, would not necessarily be a bad thing.

idk

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Theoretically speaking, what would happen if there was not a global auction house?

Nothing. No one that has been playing the game for a bit will quit the game because there is no GAH. The market will continue to be robust and successful. The same threads by the same small percentage of the player base will continue with creating threads regularly because they refuse to adapt to change, well and those that refuse to join a guild because it is to much of an inconvenience for them.

(bolding done by me for emphasis)

As for the bolded text in the quote ... first of all, what do you mean "adapt and change"? It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

Secondly, I believe it is the other way around. The "small percentage" of the player base are in fact those SELLERS who post here on the forums that profit immensely from the current system. I believe the vast majority of the player base, who DO NOT VISIT THE FORUMS to begin with, would FLOCK to an open GAH to sell their stock and buy things conveniently and at lower prices.

LOL. I do much more purchasing that selling. I earn several hundred k a week (150-200 on a slow week) merely playing the game which permits me to buy pretty much everything I want. As a customer of the guild traders, I like the system.

You have said nothing in this thread that has any real meaning to justify the change. I have hit on your three biggest points made in this thread.

1. There is not a single player who has items to sell "en masse" (as you say) that lacks access to the best trading guilds. If they had plenty to sell they would have easy access to those guilds. It is the type of player they want. (from your OP)
2. There is a reason you do not play SWTOR (really a failed game these days but I did well working that GTN while I was there. Oh, and SWTOR did not have an AH) and why are you not playing WoW if that is one of your shining examples? Oh, because you wanted something different, but seem to still want it the same.
3. You said - I believe the vast majority of the player base, who DO NOT VISIT THE FORUMS to begin with, would FLOCK to an open GAH to sell their stock and buy things conveniently and at lower prices. Baseless words that really does not seem to hold up since the current market is very robust.

Assumptions do not hold up in arguments. Your comment that I am answering in point 1 and point 3 are assumptions.

Most important is the reality check. We have guild traders. They have been around for several years and will be around for a long time. Highly endorsed by the people who decide what will bein this game since before it was launched and since. It has worked well for the robust game economy we have in ESO. They are here to stay. Enjoy or not, it is your choice.

Oh, BTW, I am in a guild that is not in a top spot, not a bad spot though, and do well, no dues, not requirement to purchase tickerts. I also sell plenty through a PvE guild that gets a trader most weeks for the minimum bid.

Edit: No mention of the issues about an AH, but bringing up the reality of the points you have attempted to make in this thread.