OMG THEY FIXED IT!!!

Smmokkee

Zos is incompetent.

Sallington

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The best idea I've heard is to get rid of the BG queue the way it is, and develop a lobby that people are put into, similar to how many FPS's operate.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I'd rather give up the freedom of having control of my character while queued for BGs, if there was a BG lobby system that was reliable.

BigES

Sallington wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The best idea I've heard is to get rid of the BG queue the way it is, and develop a lobby that people are put into, similar to how many FPS's operate.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I'd rather give up the freedom of having control of my character while queued for BGs, if there was a BG lobby system that was reliable.

I "think" (Gina would have to confirm) that they do that "lobby stuff" in the background. They'd have to, otherwise if someone declined the ready check, it would throw EVERYONE back in queue (even worse). We know this because it never forms an actual group like the previous system.

So it finds a match, then it confirms everyone is ready. Then someone says they're not ready... so I has to find a replacement. It finds that replacement, but then it has to ask AGAIN if everyone is ready (to be fair to the people waiting). Well guess what? Someone got bored waiting for that first replacement. So it finds ANOTHER (second) replacement. Then it asks AGAIN if everyone is ready. Well guess what? Jimmy got bored and started crafting potion, or entered into combat. So his ready check timer runs out. So it finds a THIRD replacement. Then it asks again....

You see? The system the way its set up now CANNOT work very well in its raw design. You can fix bugs, but at some point you have to make a decision that enough is enough and just throw everyone in the area and make them sit there for just a bit.

The ready-check system is primarily broken by impatience and attention deficit.

Rex-Umbra

Haha

TequilaFire

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

As a retired new product development engineer I can't tell you how many times a new product tests fine on the bench only to have some inexplicable problem pop up after shipping to customers.
That said I really think ZOS should give employees some time off to go home and just play the game on their various different personal systems at home and then have them take a QA survey as to the problems they ran into.

edit - stupid spell checker

I can understand that based on the individual equipment and software configurations of your customers. However, this is a server side issue, not client side. The only way this could happen is if their test servers are not reasonable approximations of the live servers.

I have never played a game that had remotely close to the problems ZoS has with the battlegrounds or group finder. Odd considering that some of the stuff they implement has been beyond the capabilities of other game companies.

Client side, server side or both my point was to have the game played by ZOS employees in a realistic environment so that the same frustrations players experience are noted.

I am continually amazed how everything comes as a surprise or is PR reacted to as a surprise if the ZOS people play and are fans of their own game.

Sallington

@BigES

Agreed a big part of the problem is people having the freedom to farm, fight, craft, go AFK, etc. while they are waiting for a ready check. Once you click "Ready" the first time, a lobby pop-up should come on the screen without the ability to leave unless you want a 15 minute penalty. This should not be close-able unless you leave the queue, causing said penalty. Once 12 people are in the lobby, you're ported to the match.

Something like that at least.

BigES

BigES wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The best idea I've heard is to get rid of the BG queue the way it is, and develop a lobby that people are put into, similar to how many FPS's operate.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I'd rather give up the freedom of having control of my character while queued for BGs, if there was a BG lobby system that was reliable.

I "think" (Gina would have to confirm) that they do that "lobby stuff" in the background. They'd have to, otherwise if someone declined the ready check, it would throw EVERYONE back in queue (even worse). We know this because it never forms an actual group like the previous system.

So it finds a match, then it confirms everyone is ready. Then someone says they're not ready... so I has to find a replacement. It finds that replacement, but then it has to ask AGAIN if everyone is ready (to be fair to the people waiting). Well guess what? Someone got bored waiting for that first replacement. So it finds ANOTHER (second) replacement. Then it asks AGAIN if everyone is ready. Well guess what? Jimmy got bored and started crafting potion, or entered into combat. So his ready check timer runs out. So it finds a THIRD replacement. Then it asks again....

You see? The system the way its set up now CANNOT work very well in its raw design. You can fix bugs, but at some point you have to make a decision that enough is enough and just throw everyone in the area and make them sit there for just a bit.

The ready-check system is primarily broken by impatience and attention deficit.

Also, I'm fairly convinced that people letting their countdown timers expire is the leading cause of not getting into a BG.

Ever notice when you hit accept, sometimes you get an immediate ready-check AGAIN? That's likely people hitting decline. (doesn't happen as often)

Then some times (more often), it takes the full countdown. Ever timed it? Notice that the countdown is basically the full duration of the ready-check? Its because someone (one of the 12 that have been matched) entered into combat and can't see his timer, or is a crafting station, or maybe took a wayshrine to zone somewhere and got stuck in a loading screen, or any number of in-game impedances that prevent that player from ready-checking.

Getting a system like that to work (making sure the ready-check is always visible) is a tall order. They be better off just queuing people in automatically for BG's, like the old system.

oibam

BG queue seems unfixable.

Mitoice

@ZOS_GinaBruno

My problem with dungeon finder is that it takes a LOT to find a group even queing as a Tank or healer. I play with 4 friends of mine... we tried today getting in queue separately.. they were queing as dps and healer and I was queing as tank.. and it took 7 minutes to find us a group..we did this very early in the morning so less people would be queuing.

The other issue if you queue solo is that once the finder finds a group for some reason (before todays patch the error was someone declined the invitation) and once you receive that error?? you can stay on queue for hours with no match... like it gets bugged or something so I have to leave queue and put myself on queue again.

This thing happened some time ago... and the system was declining the invitation if someone in the party didnt have the dlc to play it.

For example, the queue puts us on Ruin of Mazzatun but someone on the group doesnt have that dlc.. it gives the error of someone declines the group..

Gina hope this can help

vyndral13preub18_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

As a retired new product development engineer I can't tell you how many times a new product tests fine on the bench only to have some inexplicable problem pop up after shipping to customers.
That said I really think ZOS should give employees some time off to go home and just play the game on their various different personal systems at home and then have them take a QA survey as to the problems they ran into.

edit - stupid spell checker

I can understand that based on the individual equipment and software configurations of your customers. However, this is a server side issue, not client side. The only way this could happen is if their test servers are not reasonable approximations of the live servers.

I have never played a game that had remotely close to the problems ZoS has with the battlegrounds or group finder. Odd considering that some of the stuff they implement has been beyond the capabilities of other game companies.

Client side, server side or both my point was to have the game played by ZOS employees in a realistic environment so that the same frustrations players experience are noted.

I am continually amazed how everything comes as a surprise or is PR reacted to as a surprise if the ZOS people play and are fans of their own game.

While I do sort of feel bad for them, I can't help but shrug and laugh as well. None of this should come as a surprise to them. The dungeon finder has had problems forever. So long infact they stopped responding to post about it not working. For a couple months after they broke it last time, they posted updates. Patched it. Then slowly stopped mentioning it in patches and then stopped responding to post about it. Did they think the people posting about it were lying? Did they think that system would work better in a BG setting or something?

And honestly if you are into BGs and you want to run premade groups, you need to be very scared. Because so far this path is almost exactly the path that the dungeon finder went. They will try for a bit. Then after they patch they will start saying things like oh no this isn't all of it. There are more fixes on the way! And slowly more people will start posting, I never have a problem, you must be dumb, there are just to many dps in the queue. Then Zos will one day just stop responding.

I hope that doesn't happen. But as a person who quit doing dungeons, his favorite part of the game because of the crappy group finder, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Blobsky

Enodoc wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

New drinking game, every time ZOS asks for details on something they could test by playing their own game, you take a shot. If someone guesses what the first dev reply will be, everyone else has to take a shot.

For what it's worth, we've been able to successfully get into multiple BGs on EU without issue, so yes. We do need details on what the exact issues are that blobs (or anyone) is still running into.

It's funny how you never have problems on your side (so you release the patches after passing QA) but then we all still have the same problems on our side.
 

You really think antagonizing Gina is going to solve anything?

To be fair, I wasn't actually antagonizing Gina, I think it would be a legitimately funny drinking game.

The player base is frustrated. I hadn't played ESO since Christmas 2016. I came back solely for Battlegrounds, as it is the single most desired feature for me. My guild is solely small group PVP oriented. 4 to 6 players max. Most of us quit playing over the past 4 months because of how stale and zergy pvp had become. We all get hyped, try to play BGs. and sit in queue for 3 hours without getting in a game. Then we see no sense of urgency on the part of ZOS to fix it, especially since the patch PC got today is not getting pushed live on console immediately. They're sticking it in an incremental 4 weeks from now instead of submitting it for certification today, which would have it live on console by 26 June.

Harassing Gina is definitely not the way to go. But there has to be some acknowledgement on their part that this is ****ed and they need to get moving on fixing this. We paid for a service that isn't being delivered. That's not cool no matter what your opinion on anything else is.

Your frustration is completely understandable. We have been working very hard on addressing the issues relating to the Grouping Tool (which has been, in turn, affecting queuing for Battlegrounds). That said, we do have more fixes already scheduled for the next patch that should address issues where you accept the Ready Check, but then just go back into the queue. The fixes for this issue were done right before the weekend, so there wasn't time to get it into this morning's patch.

Any chance you can do 'the next patch' tomorrow, or some time before next week? It is a pretty major issue, and really hurting the game - I have seen a huge amount of players leave the community because of this, please hotfix!

Assume that the fix requires a code change, and that therefore it can't be hotfixed. Would you want another three hour maintenance tomorrow to get this patch in? That could easily result in more antagonism against ZOS for "too much downtime".

I would certainly prefer another maintenance. Id label it as an admitance that there are still some problems and they dont want players waiting a whole week. Cant see many complaining... on top of that, streamers like myself are stuck advising hundreds of new players not to huy morrowind... why? I personally love the patch and am hugely supportitive - but it is broken and I have no intentions being responsible for selling broken content. Id be much happier pushing game sales but that simply cant happen currently... that is a huge loss of revenue to zenimax

CavalryPK

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Zenimax said battlegrounds queues no longer display the message 'Somebody in your group declined the queue' constantly stopping you entering battlegrounds.

FINALLY!

Only problem...

All that has actually changed is the message is deleted. The grouping still doesn't work. In exactly the same way.Edited by


----> Edited by : ZOS_GinaBruno on June 19, 2017 8:59AM <

---

Now we will never know what the original post said. since Gina already edited it

That's just a forum bug - any time a staff member replies in a thread and mark it for the Dev Tracker, it says we edited the original post.

Thank you for clarifying. my bad.

BigES

Sallington wrote: »

@BigES

Agreed a big part of the problem is people having the freedom to farm, fight, craft, go AFK, etc. while they are waiting for a ready check. Once you click "Ready" the first time, a lobby pop-up should come on the screen without the ability to leave unless you want a 15 minute penalty. This should not be close-able unless you leave the queue, causing said penalty. Once 12 people are in the lobby, you're ported to the match.

Something like that at least.

Yes exactly, but you see... agreeing to enter the lobby is the game thing as agreeing to queue. No need to ask twice. Same difference. So when you agree to queue, you get put in a lobby immediately, and if you back out, then you get a penalty. That's the way the old system was. It didn't ask AGAIN once the group was ready. It just threw you in a group because you agreed.

The current system is essentially asking people TWICE if they are ready, because they were under the intial impression that the wait times to get a match would be worth checking twice. But checking twice is causing the problem.

Mitoice

My pvp friends left ESO due to this... they feel ripped thay after paying 40 bucks on something that has been broken for quite some time without any ETA on fix....which i dont blame them even though i tried to persuade them to wait...

please gina.. do something, I feel very lonely playing ESO now...

@ZOS_GinaBruno

timidobserver

They fixed one of my biggest issues with bgs. Groups are now back filling better now. Usually if I went into a BG and it showed 4 v 2 v 2 it stayed like that. Now those 2 groups are being filled.

Queue still needs some work though.

Mitoice

Has anyone from ZoS tested this on their house?? not on their job?

I mean Gina.. if you install this on your Home PC and try queuing you will see the same errors we have been experiencing.

Sheey

Okay we do need videos on this, otherwise it won't get seen by zenimax.

Gravord

Sheey wrote: »

Okay we do need videos on this, otherwise it won't get seen by zenimax.

It was posted weeks ago and theyve seen it.

LorDrek

2 hours in group any BG.

NeillMcAttack

@Sallington
@BigES

That's not the case though. Not at all. And you can easily test it. Let's say I and a friend both queue, we can watch the countdown of "waiting on players; 5, 4, 3,...." I can easily delay accepting the invite until my friend tells me it's "Waiting on players; 1". Then when I accept we know that everyone has manually accepted the invite. It's after this fact that most failed attempts occur.

I just thought it important not to be blaming players when it's clearly bugs in the system.

pcar944

ScytheNL wrote: »

And here I am, still waiting for Gearbox to fix the damned Jacobs vendor in their "Zombie Island of Dr. Ned".

10 years later ... no ETA ... wait, that's not ZoS that's Gearbox

Anhedonie

I have no issues with group finder after today's update. So far works.

BigES

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

@Sallington
@BigES

That's not the case though. Not at all. And you can easily test it. Let's say I and a friend both queue, we can watch the countdown of "waiting on players; 5, 4, 3,...." I can easily delay accepting the invite until my friend tells me it's "Waiting on players; 1". Then when I accept we know that everyone has manually accepted the invite. It's after this fact that most failed attempts occur.

I just thought it important not to be blaming players when it's clearly bugs in the system.

@NeillMcAttack

That does happen. I've noticed that as well. And I do think that particular instance is a bug. It will say forming group, then fail. I think what's happening there is that its attempting to put you in an active match that needs players and fail. They've already stated that if the active match has > 2:00 remaining, it will attempt to do that, and fail.

Its a mix of both. I'm not trying to 100% "blame" players. I'm equally to blame, and its completely understandable. I know from personal experience queuing, that I (personally) have missed a ready check that I could have clicked on. Because something buggy happened, or I went to craft a few potions while waiting, or I accidentally aggro'd a mob while farming, or I went to zone in somewhere and hit a load screen.

Because you see... when you wait 2 hours for a queue, you're gonna miss a few. But those other people you're getting matched with.. they're in the same boat. Most of them. And they're gonna miss a few as well.

You have 12 chances of people missing queues, eating a snack, taking a leak... that's not a very good probability.

Its a function of the randomness in combination with queuing bugs that seems to be exacerbating the problem.

Rayste

CarbonX wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

New drinking game, every time ZOS asks for details on something they could test by playing their own game, you take a shot. If someone guesses what the first dev reply will be, everyone else has to take a shot.

For what it's worth, we've been able to successfully get into multiple BGs on EU without issue, so yes. We do need details on what the exact issues are that blobs (or anyone) is still running into.

It's funny how you never have problems on your side (so you release the patches after passing QA) but then we all still have the same problems on our side.
 

You really think antagonizing Gina is going to solve anything?

I'm talking to ZOS, not to Gina as if she is the one to blame. And believe me that, at this point, I don't expect them to fix anything. Believe me. I'm just expressing my-frustrated-self as it's the right I have as a customer of this company. No more than that.
 

Tip of the iceberg. The majority of the player base has no idea how widespread cheating in this game is now. Play a few battlegrounds and you will see some eyebrow raising shenanigans. Check out the cheating and exploits bookmarked thread. My eyes have only recently been opened to this. I realize that's not at all what the thread is about but why bother to play content that a fair number of people are cheating in.

oibam

at 30 min i hit alt+f4

Sophieous

Zos taking the servers down tomorrow cus pve quests aren't working, yet nothing of the same scale is being done to pvp's BGs.

I don't know if that should make me laugh or cry or legit just uninstall.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Sophieous wrote: »

Zos taking the servers down tomorrow cus pve quests aren't working, yet nothing of the same scale is being done to pvp's BGs.

I don't know if that should make me laugh or cry or legit just uninstall.

I know it doesn't matter, but it still drives me nuts when they take the server down 3 hours for a hot fix. That isn't a hot fix!!

Enodoc

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

Zos taking the servers down tomorrow cus pve quests aren't working, yet nothing of the same scale is being done to pvp's BGs.

I don't know if that should make me laugh or cry or legit just uninstall.

I know it doesn't matter, but it still drives me nuts when they take the server down 3 hours for a hot fix. That isn't a hot fix!!

Indeed. If it requires downtime, this looks like it's going to be a code change. @ZOS_GinaBruno since there's going to be maintenance tomorrow anyway, any chance of bundling those BG fixes you mentioned earlier into the patch as well?

Avran_Sylt

Enodoc wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

Zos taking the servers down tomorrow cus pve quests aren't working, yet nothing of the same scale is being done to pvp's BGs.

I don't know if that should make me laugh or cry or legit just uninstall.

I know it doesn't matter, but it still drives me nuts when they take the server down 3 hours for a hot fix. That isn't a hot fix!!

Indeed. If it requires downtime, this looks like it's going to be a code change. @ZOS_GinaBruno since there's going to be maintenance tomorrow anyway, any chance of bundling those BG fixes you mentioned earlier into the patch as well?

The quests being borked was probably the final straw leading to the downtime. If it was only the quests that were bugged I'm pretty sure they'd have left that off till next week. So my assumption is that they will indeed bundle some of those weekend BG fixes.

MilwaukeeScott

CarbonX wrote: »

I'm positive they have no idea 

I agree