as long as pointblank AoE's or AoE's that follow the player exist. so to will zerg blobs.

dsalter

noticed people blame the zergs far to often but the real enemy is the skills they have access to, doesn't take much co-ordination to unleash EotS one after the other since they follow the zergling, just click and chase like a fat kid and cake, as long as these self targeted AoE's exist zergs will be the best way to win pretty much every crowd based situation.
my opinion?

change every single one.
if a zerg can organize a single target swarm that can wipe out crowds, i will haply accept defeat, because organizing so many people to concentrate fire on individual targets ain't easy, but getting a whole handful of people to just mash EotS and Ring of elements? piece of cake, spam steed tornado? ez.

notice ground target AoE's are rarely used by zergs? because enemies move, and whats one of the core counters for AoE? move out of it.
so how does one "move out of the AoE" when it follows you and not only follows you but can chase you using trapping/stunning skills? THAT is the pure reason these make perfect tools for a zerg.

opinions?

FearlessOne_2014

I wouldn't mind ZOS removing the self targeting auto follow AoE abilities from the or changing them so they don't follow the players.

But this will not be enoth to solve your problem with zergs. As long as the Zerglings can just effortlessly zerg down players to win. Then nothing will solve your problem. They will just go to the next path of lessor resistance. Then you will be back here again but about a different ability.

Merlin13KAGL

Zerg blobs will exist regardless of this, and they always have.

It's more to do with 'safety in numbers' regarding the way AoE damage is distributed to the zerg vice the damage coming from the zerg.

Proxy Det and Vicious Death were two attempts to remedy this issue.

dsalter wrote: »

notice ground target AoE's are rarely used by zergs? because enemies move, and whats one of the core counters for AoE? move out of it.
so how does one "move out of the AoE" when it follows you and not only follows you but can chase you using trapping/stunning skills? THAT is the pure reason these make perfect tools for a zerg.

opinions?

One CC's, Roots, or Snares the AoE...then moves out of it.

dsalter

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Zerg blobs will exist regardless of this, and they always have.

It's more to do with 'safety in numbers' regarding the way AoE damage is distributed to the zerg vice the damage coming from the zerg.

Proxy Det and Vicious Death were two attempts to remedy this issue.

dsalter wrote: »

notice ground target AoE's are rarely used by zergs? because enemies move, and whats one of the core counters for AoE? move out of it.
so how does one "move out of the AoE" when it follows you and not only follows you but can chase you using trapping/stunning skills? THAT is the pure reason these make perfect tools for a zerg.

opinions?

One CC's, Roots, or Snares the AoE...then moves out of it.

breakfree > charge/lotus spam.

NightbladeMechanics

Don't neglect how useful these abilities are for combating tightly clumped zerg balls.

Satiar

You'll never be able to nerf teamwork. Teamwork makes the dream work.

That said, eye is dumb.

HoloYoitsu

Satiar wrote: »

You'll never be able to nerf teamwork. Teamwork makes the dream work.

That said, eye is dumb.

But what would you know about teamwork? You're just a VE zerggling.

GeorgeBlack

Too many atk aspects on CP/sets/Traits

Critical
Penetration
Dot dmg
Barrier breaking
Direct
Magic
Elemental
Poison
Max Magika bonus
Max Stamina bonus

People know that they cannot defend against everything so they focus only on their dmg output.

If there was only Physical and Magic damage types you would see more builds, more interesting fights and less safety on numbers mentality.

This makes players to focus on 4 categories of builds.
Aoe spammers(dw stam/staff magi
aoe tanks (nb/dk drain)
Unkillable killers: med armr + 2hnded stam


Another thing that creates these 4 categories of PvPrs (3 of them which aoe zerg) is the fact that:

A. 1h/shield can be used effectively as second bar by every magika/stamina build no matter what armor they are wearing (bonus WD/SD +MAX Magika/stamina. FOCUS ON DAMAGE AGAIN. ZERG).

B. Medium armors active skill has no place in ESO. Passive evasion? What is this Dota/LoL? And passive evasion for ALL CLASSES? Why bother focusing on your HP/defence/magic defence if you can't get hit.

C. Proc armors. A tank can burst you. Enough said.

Turelus

Zergs will exist no matter what, because no game has ever (nor should they) really found a solution to more numbers win.

There shouldn't be a system where smaller group can't ever win, but it should be set in the way that eventually more numbers overwhelm and win the fight, which is where the smaller party (be that solo or small group) should place that part of the skill for their PvP style is getting away from that alive with the kills they have.

I think what OP hints at is organised bomb trains however, the stacked groups spamming AoE skills etc. which there should be counters to, there used to be, we could root, oil, meatbag negate etc.

However changes seem to have made most of these tactics not valid any more.

Valencer

Turelus wrote: »

Zergs will exist no matter what, because no game has ever (nor should they) really found a solution to more numbers win.

There shouldn't be a system where smaller group can't ever win, but it should be set in the way that eventually more numbers overwhelm and win the fight, which is where the smaller party (be that solo or small group) should place that part of the skill for their PvP style is getting away from that alive with the kills they have.

I think what OP hints at is organised bomb trains however, the stacked groups spamming AoE skills etc. which there should be counters to, there used to be, we could root, oil, meatbag negate etc.

However changes seem to have made most of these tactics not valid any more.

If anything AoE trains are more counterable than ever before.

- Rapid maneuvers took a huge nerf
- Purge is now capped to 6
- Barrier is now capped to 6 and pretty much not used anymore.
- Negate gives an opening where the healers can't heal for a few seconds
- Destro ulti is both a blessing and a curse for AoE trains. Even unorganised people can use it to great effect to deal significant focused AoE damage.

Derra

They will continue to exist past that as long as there is no targethardlock and things like healing springs, rapids, purge exist.

The dmg is making it easier but it´s the support features that make it op along with the impossible targetting of a single person in a blob.

Magıc

Remove AOE caps.

Then these zergs will learn to spread out.

Derra

Magıc wrote: »

Remove AOE caps.

Then these zergs will learn to spread out.

No.

Simply because there is no ranged high dmg aoe to make them spread out.

All high dmg aoe is player based apart from siege which is somewhat easily countered by rapids/movement.
That means aoe cap removal at this point makes farming for trains easier while changing nothing for the people fighting them.

Coordinated AOE + healingsprings + purgespam + rapid >>> just aoes.

Stacking is too effective because of rapids, purge and healing springs/smart aoe heals in general.

NightbladeMechanics

Satiar wrote: »

You'll never be able to nerf teamwork. Teamwork makes the dream work.

That said, eye is dumb.

That's his point. It requires less coordination and discipline to achieve the same results when using player-based aoes than stationary ones.

Biro123

Derra wrote: »

They will continue to exist past that as long as there is no targethardlock and things like healing springs, rapids, purge exist.

The dmg is making it easier but it´s the support features that make it op along with the impossible targetting of a single person in a blob.

I agree with the targetlock.. A counter probably should be bursting them down one by one - but when you can't target the same player because of the stacking.....

I agree on the support aspect too - if they couldn't move with major-expedition and gap-closers when eye is running - it wouldn't be anywhere near as dangerous.

IxSTALKERxI

AoE damage is not the problem. You must keep AoE damage or the situation will become worse. The problem is AoE healing / buffs / damage mitigation.

GreenSoup2HoT

The real problem is purgeable siege. You cant siege a zerg if they can spam purge. If the zerg is big enough defending keeps is pointless. Not even EotS is enough when big zergs spread out and just rez. Siege is the hammer but it has no handle.