Why is There No Option To Kill Sun-in-Shadow?

Personofsecrets

Thread Title

Hippie4927

I felt the same way! I did NOT want to help her!

Personofsecrets

Oh, I see that the quest line continues. I'll just wait and see!

Personofsecrets

Hippie4927 wrote: »

I felt the same way! I did NOT want to help her!

Well, based on that I'm guessing that there never ever becomes the option.

Thread title again!

Darlgon

Shh.. its a secret.

Hippie4927

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Oh, I see that the quest line continues. I'll just wait and see!

Since you haven't finished the quest line, I'll just shut my mouth! lol

Personofsecrets

Sensing another Aelif situation.

Luthivar

+1 whiny little argonians that beg you to murder sb are anything but sympatic! Would have loved some quests do become a speecher of a telvanni master myself! Maybe connetected to daily quests which could earn me some of the new housing blueprints. Droprates for them are low asf, haven't found any of blue or violet quality so far.

Personofsecrets

Sun-in-Shadow gets worse and worse.

Personofsecrets

At least Eoki has some values. Jeesh.

Hippie4927

*whistles innocently*

starkerealm

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sensing another Aelif situation.

Nah, nothing quite that egregious. But, seriously, the ending options are, kinda limited.

thawks

I actually liked Sun-in-Shadow and the contradiction/hypocrisy present in her character, though I do agree that the options are too limited. There should at least have been possible to tell her she's suffering from some serious Stockholm syndrome and that she's treating the PC and Eoki like dung.

I was expecting her to fall deeper than she did, but then again, I didn't let her

force Eoki to stay.

Personofsecrets

Well, now that I have obtained the quest line skill point, I assume that I will never see Sun-in-Shadow again.

And that is for the better.

Sun-in-Shadow, from my play through, gives up love so that they can have what exactly? Eoki tries so hard to set Sun-in-Shadow free, but they go from being an actual slave to becoming a slave in spirit. That is hardly a difference in my book.

I would call this bad characterization, but in reality people make the same poor choice regarding the direction of their life, despite clear and overwhelming evidence, every day.

Maybe what Sun-in-Shadow was developed as lacking, and maybe what all-too-many people lack in reality, is a true sense of self-pride.

Personofsecrets

Sun-in-Shadow is the embodiment of all of the awful nihilists in the world.

Maybe that is why I don't like the character at such a visceral level.

starkerealm

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sun-in-Shadow is the embodiment of all of the awful nihilists in the world.

Maybe that is why I don't like the character at such a visceral level.

Yeah, she's a fantastically written character. I despise her, but the writing really works.

ZOS has done a really fantastic job with creating some very well written characters.

Also, if it helps to cleanse your pallet, I suggest running the Gnisis questline.

Nebthet78

No.. you don't get to fill Sun-in-Shadow, but to make up for it, at least you do get the option to push a certain someone down a well, and that brought me great joy!!!

starkerealm

Nebthet78 wrote: »

No.. you don't get to fill Sun-in-Shadow, but to make up for it, at least you do get the option to push a certain someone down a well, and that brought me great joy!!!

You also get to zap him until you get board. Which is when I finally realized he shared a VA with that Wood Elf on Bleakrock.

Hippie4927

starkerealm wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sun-in-Shadow is the embodiment of all of the awful nihilists in the world.

Maybe that is why I don't like the character at such a visceral level.

Yeah, she's a fantastically written character. I despise her, but the writing really works.

ZOS has done a really fantastic job with creating some very well written characters.

Also, if it helps to cleanse your pallet, I suggest running the Gnisis questline.

Yes, she is a well-written character but I was bothered by being forced to help her. At one point, I almost walked away from the quest but, being a completionist caused me to go back and finish it.

Nifty2g

go to bed thornos

starkerealm

Hippie4927 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sun-in-Shadow is the embodiment of all of the awful nihilists in the world.

Maybe that is why I don't like the character at such a visceral level.

Yeah, she's a fantastically written character. I despise her, but the writing really works.

ZOS has done a really fantastic job with creating some very well written characters.

Also, if it helps to cleanse your pallet, I suggest running the Gnisis questline.

Yes, she is a well-written character but I was bothered by being forced to help her. At one point, I almost walked away from the quest but, being a completionist caused me to go back and finish it.

Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. That is the solution. Leave her to her fate. There's a couple really solid moments in the quest to do that with a feeling of closure... but then Sadrith Mora remains black on your map, and... yeah.

EvilCroc

Why the hell she was on Vivec's celebration ceremony? Who in the whole Tamriel was so smart to invite her?
That's the thing I'm angry about.

Reorx_Holybeard

It was an interesting quest line at first but I had a few issues on how it ended up:

The way I see it Sun-in-Shadow wants to become a Telvanni mage and with all the plotting, subterfuge, conniving, and betrayal she engages in she becomes exactly what she wanted (whether she actually wanted to or not, or was aware that was happening). I guess I'd like to see an additional quest outcome depending on what you do:

1. Sun-In-Shadow and Eoki stay
2. Sun-in-Shadow stays and Eoki leaves
3. (new) Sun-in-Shadow and Eoki leave together

I particularly dislike the part where the game "forces" you to assassinate someone. The options given are "assassinate" or "bring cupcakes" and its patently obvious what is going on in the latter choice (um, perhaps you shouldn't eat those sent from someone trying to kill you). I feel this would have been a good time to help introduce the new third option for the quest ending here.

Interesting characters and story but a very forced story line from the character's perspective.

Recremen

That plotline definitely had some weaknesses, but I think it was an interesting perspective into the attitudes of someone born into slavery versus enslaved during adulthood. Sun-In-Shadow thinks she's better than other slaves because she works within the Telvanni system to achieve freedom whereas the other slaves like Eoki see the system for the corrupt and corrupting influence that it is, and seek a freedom completely removed from it. It's also not completely spelled out for you with moral grandstanding, it's just implied via dialogue, a subtle touch that I thought was befitting a storyline about Telvanni.

starkerealm

EvilCroc wrote: »

Why the hell she was on Vivec's celebration ceremony? Who in the whole Tamriel was so smart to invite her?
That's the thing I'm angry about.

Wait, what?

All four times I've run that, it was one of the first things I did after reaching Vvardenfell. Other guests show up for quests you've completed?

Hippie4927

starkerealm wrote: »

EvilCroc wrote: »

Why the hell she was on Vivec's celebration ceremony? Who in the whole Tamriel was so smart to invite her?
That's the thing I'm angry about.

Wait, what?

All four times I've run that, it was one of the first things I did after reaching Vvardenfell. Other guests show up for quests you've completed?

On my first play through in Vvardenfell, I did Sun in Shadows quest first and then the Vivec quests. I did not see Sun in Shadow at the celebration. Not saying she wasn't there.......just that I didn't see her.

SydneyGrey

That questline broke my heart. At the end I'd lost all sympathy for her after a few lines she said when the other slaves were leaving. I wouldn't have killed her, though. It's more fitting that she be forced to live in the society she chose, knowing they'd never see her as an equal.

Darlgon

First off, I have not finished it.

That said.. just the feel from the first few encounters was..

She has a version of Stockholm Syndrome, except she was raised into it by being around the Dunmer all her life. She ended up wanting to be what her captors wanted to be... at least, so far.

Magdalina

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Well, now that I have obtained the quest line skill point, I assume that I will never see Sun-in-Shadow again.

And that is for the better.

Sun-in-Shadow, from my play through, gives up love so that they can have what exactly? Eoki tries so hard to set Sun-in-Shadow free, but they go from being an actual slave to becoming a slave in spirit. That is hardly a difference in my book.

I would call this bad characterization, but in reality people make the same poor choice regarding the direction of their life, despite clear and overwhelming evidence, every day.

Maybe what Sun-in-Shadow was developed as lacking, and maybe what all-too-many people lack in reality, is a true sense of self-pride.

It is so unusual to see a thread from you about questing ;P

Far as Sun goes, I think part of it is

she's never seen different. From my understanding, she's been born a slave whereas Eoki has been captured. She strives to become a Telvanni because that's all the freedom she has seen possible, to her the "homeland" of Black Marsh is nothing but a story told by Eoki(and Telvanni perhaps, except I bet Telvanni don't describe it fondly if they do at all). Eoki wants to take her "home", but it's not home to her. I'm not sure she ever will truly be at home in Telvanni mushroom towers either but that's another story.

Like I'm not trying to justify her, I don't want to kill her but wish you could knock her out and send her with Eoki nicely tied up or something lol. But to a point it's understandable.

Also she's very different from other Argonians you meet, I think she really does have what it takes to be a Telvanni. It's not really a compliment to her, but I think it's something she cultivated in herself because she saw becoming one of her masters as the only way to get free. She will make a worthy Telvanni probably, but I'm not sure if she ever will make a happy one(are Telvanni ever truly happy though?).

It's a very good, albeit sad, story.

Personofsecrets

@Nifty2g , what did you think about this quest line?

Victoria_Marquis

Once you start the Dark Brotherhood and get the Blade of Woe, you should be able to assassinate any NPC, even guards. To keep from griffing players trying to use the NPC, a new one respawns but is phased out for the Assassin maybe with a timer before you can assassinate them again.