Give Us A Way To Level Undaunted Via Alliance War?

NordSwordnBoard

Make the Cyrodiil delve bosses as strong as/stronger than world bosses so you need a few people to kill it? If you got some Undaunted points from killing it as well as the passive AP bonus, without leaving PvP, that might work...

It would be similar to PvErs getting vigor from repairing walls and other less direct AP gathering methods.

Replace the fighters guild dailies that (last I checked) gave garbage rewards compared to time spent.

Malamar1229

If anything maybe a daily quest to kill Molag Bal in the sewers....otherwise, its pretty easy to level undaunted.

Personally, i would prefer they change the passive so pvpers dont feel they need to grind dungeons just to have higher stats.

Maybe change the passive to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1%/2%

Beardimus

That's what I'm saying @IcyDeadPeople you don't have to run the dungeons 100's of times. Helped a few guildies recently on new toons. Sure you have to hit each dungeon once, and repeat some but with a decent crew that doesn't take long at all.

A total new comer to PvP will not earn 25k per hour. They will ride their horse about for at least that between deaths and respawing and having no clue what's going on.

The same guys i helped tear thru Undaunted are 'Building up' to unlock PvP skills as they don't PvP or know the AP values of things or even about ticks etc

Either way i can see how both sides don't like to do content they don't like. For me, i enjoy the richness of the full game and if something draws or makes me play another area i often find i then enjoy that too rather than limiting myself. I.e. Gold shortage got me into thieving, then trading - and a whole aspect of the game opened up. Thus i don't think any area of the game should.just be given to another as it limits wider play.

And like i say Undaunted doesn't take long now. I'm only preaching as i took a year to max it out on my first toon as i did it wrong. Now with a small group and a few hours each night here and there it can be done in weeks is all.

Sugaroverdose

code65536 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Undaunted goes pretty fast nowadays to be honest, it's less of a pain than it used ot be

It's a huge pain to those who don't want PvE at all

MattT1988 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an Alliance War skill that was equal to the Undaunted passive. ONLY IF there was a pve equivalent to Vigor, Warhorn and Caltrops, maybe even Guard.

I believe that PvP players shouldn't be forced to do PvE content to get essential abilities and passive they need, but it works the other way around too. PvE players should not be forced to PvP to get a skill as essential as Vigor or Warhorn (for support players).

Alliance War level 10 can be reached in one day playing solo -_-

LOL, the reverse could be said too.

Assault/Support leveling is a huge pain to those who hate PvP.

And for those who are good at group PvE and have a good group, they can hit max undaunted in a day.

It's not that difficult, and it's good for the game to force PvPers out of their comfort zone, just as it's good to force PvEers out of their comfort zone. I support the Undaunted and Alliance War skill grinds 100%.

It cannot be said reverse it requires descent group who will agree to spend whole day for achievement speed run

Vapirko

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about "No." You already get the option to buy the helms with AP/gold.

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Alliance war skills can be unlocked purely through PvE. Town quests award AP for a while now. Do you have the risk of being ganked? Sure. Just respawn and carry on. Is it frustrating? Only if you let it be. You know what else can be frustrating? Pugging a dungeon and not completing it or it taking four times too long because of a weak group. But it's only frustrating if you let it be. At the end of the day it's just a game. Enjoy the ride.

These at least require being in Cyrodiil, though, right? Do you relalize how many of these would have to be done to level up to rank 10?

Undaunted has been greatly simplified. You've got a 15 point daily that you can complete on a crafter, ffs, plus three pledges a day that can be bumbled on norm.

Earn it, or don't. It's fine the way it is.

This would be like asking for AP from burning the catapults in HRC...

How about some of us have other things to do with our lives? And you can buy the helms with gold too. AP only gets you impen which is useless in pve anyway. And your hrc analogy is awful. #peoplewhosaynotothingsthathavenothingtodowiththem

FearlessOne_2014

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

love when ppl bring the argument they hate pvp and dont want abilities hidden behind the pvp wall. Just admit you dont hate it you are just bad, and need that pve boss to do the same *** rotation for the 100th time or else you are ***.

Lol yep, and the hilarious thing is, they then think they are good.

This is coming from someone who does PvE/PvP, duelling, numerous clears of VmA.

PvP, although it has its issues, has at least dynamic enemies to kill or die trying.

Yup stamina proc sets META lots of dynamic there. Funny thing is this grief is coming from plebs who for the most part couldn't get a kill without Proc set's carrying them.

Far as PvE goes there is a lot more dynamics involve that a lowly proc stacker would be able to even comprehend. Let alone complete. Mobs and bosses with true mechanics don't instantly die to a 25k proc burst like players do. Take most of the vet trials for example. Hell even some of the DLC vet dungeons.

It takes way way more skill to be able to complete those, then simply instantly gear procing someone to death. But keep deluding your selves.

Undaunted levels for PvP only if PvEers can get Alliance War levels in PvE. End of story. If you are not willing to compromise then there is nothing to talk about here. You going to have to grind out those dungeons. Like the PvEers have to grind out shady as hell PvP, to get what they want.

Zvorgin

Quit whining and play all aspects of the game.

FearlessOne_2014

Zvorgin wrote: »

Quit whining and play all aspects of the game.

+1

Vapirko

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

love when ppl bring the argument they hate pvp and dont want abilities hidden behind the pvp wall. Just admit you dont hate it you are just bad, and need that pve boss to do the same *** rotation for the 100th time or else you are ***.

Lol yep, and the hilarious thing is, they then think they are good.

This is coming from someone who does PvE/PvP, duelling, numerous clears of VmA.

PvP, although it has its issues, has at least dynamic enemies to kill or die trying.

Yup stamina proc sets META lots of dynamic there. Funny thing is this grief is coming from plebs who for the most part couldn't get a kill without Proc set's carrying them.

Far as PvE goes there is a lot more dynamics involve that a lowly proc stacker would be able to even comprehend. Let alone complete. Mobs and bosses with true mechanics don't instantly die to a 25k proc burst like players do. Take most of the vet trials for example. Hell even some of the DLC vet dungeons.

It takes way way more skill to be able to complete those, then simply instantly gear procing someone to death. But keep deluding your selves.

Undaunted levels for PvP only if PvEers can get Alliance War levels in PvE. End of story. If you are not willing to compromise then there is nothing to talk about here. You going to have to grind out those dungeons. Like the PvEers have to grind out shady as hell PvP, to get what they want.

I have two toons already full undaunted. I've also beat all content pve except for some vet trials. I didn't start pvp until about six months ago. Also don't kid yourself bruh, you don't just stack proc sets in pvp. It's way harder to be good at pvp. Pve is child's play compared to competing with good pvpers.

FearlessOne_2014

@Vapirko I truly beg to differ.

Vapirko wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

love when ppl bring the argument they hate pvp and dont want abilities hidden behind the pvp wall. Just admit you dont hate it you are just bad, and need that pve boss to do the same *** rotation for the 100th time or else you are ***.

Lol yep, and the hilarious thing is, they then think they are good.

This is coming from someone who does PvE/PvP, duelling, numerous clears of VmA.

PvP, although it has its issues, has at least dynamic enemies to kill or die trying.

Yup stamina proc sets META lots of dynamic there. Funny thing is this grief is coming from plebs who for the most part couldn't get a kill without Proc set's carrying them.

Far as PvE goes there is a lot more dynamics involve that a lowly proc stacker would be able to even comprehend. Let alone complete. Mobs and bosses with true mechanics don't instantly die to a 25k proc burst like players do. Take most of the vet trials for example. Hell even some of the DLC vet dungeons.

It takes way way more skill to be able to complete those, then simply instantly gear procing someone to death. But keep deluding your selves.

Undaunted levels for PvP only if PvEers can get Alliance War levels in PvE. End of story. If you are not willing to compromise then there is nothing to talk about here. You going to have to grind out those dungeons. Like the PvEers have to grind out shady as hell PvP, to get what they want.

I have two toons already full undaunted. I've also beat all content pve except for some vet trials. I didn't start pvp until about six months ago. Also don't kid yourself bruh, you don't just stack proc sets in pvp. It's way harder to be good at pvp. Pve is child's play compared to competing with good pvpers.

@Vapirko I truly beg to differ

I've posted my first outing doing just that. And was pretty successful. It really is that easy. nearly no counter play. Just saying. You can look at my last post here if you don't believe me. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4214598/#Comment_4214598
It's sad, how easy mode it is.

Merlin13KAGL

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Undaunted goes pretty fast nowadays to be honest, it's less of a pain than it used ot be

It's a huge pain to those who don't want PvE at all

MattT1988 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an Alliance War skill that was equal to the Undaunted passive. ONLY IF there was a pve equivalent to Vigor, Warhorn and Caltrops, maybe even Guard.

I believe that PvP players shouldn't be forced to do PvE content to get essential abilities and passive they need, but it works the other way around too. PvE players should not be forced to PvP to get a skill as essential as Vigor or Warhorn (for support players).

Alliance War level 10 can be reached in one day playing solo -_-

LOL, the reverse could be said too.

Assault/Support leveling is a huge pain to those who hate PvP.

And for those who are good at group PvE and have a good group, they can hit max undaunted in a day.

It's not that difficult, and it's good for the game to force PvPers out of their comfort zone, just as it's good to force PvEers out of their comfort zone. I support the Undaunted and Alliance War skill grinds 100%.

It cannot be said reverse it requires descent group who will agree to spend whole day for achievement speed run

@Sugaroverdose , it doesn't take a whole day. There are tons of achievements that count towards this, including killing X number of creatures in a particular dungeon, etc.

Speed runs are not the only way.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

For people who just want to spend their time in PVP it's a long, boring grind. I've been playing this game since launch (over 3 years) and still don't have max Undaunted on any character.

@IcyDeadPeople , had you run one dungeon a day per character, even before dailies and pledges were a thing, you'd have no trouble maxing Undaunted in 3 years.

• You get points for pledges
• You get points for first completes (Version I dungeons - the old 'norm')
• You get points for first completes (Version II dungeons - the old 'vet')
• You get points for hard mode completes.
• You get points for speed runs.
• You get points for no-deaths.
• You get points for doing damage, healing, blocking, ffs...
• You get points for killing x # of creatures in y dungeon.
• You get points for a daily that takes 5 minutes max & that's if you have to unlock the wayshrine to get there...

Vapirko wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about "No." You already get the option to buy the helms with AP/gold.

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Alliance war skills can be unlocked purely through PvE. Town quests award AP for a while now. Do you have the risk of being ganked? Sure. Just respawn and carry on. Is it frustrating? Only if you let it be. You know what else can be frustrating? Pugging a dungeon and not completing it or it taking four times too long because of a weak group. But it's only frustrating if you let it be. At the end of the day it's just a game. Enjoy the ride.

These at least require being in Cyrodiil, though, right? Do you relalize how many of these would have to be done to level up to rank 10?

Undaunted has been greatly simplified. You've got a 15 point daily that you can complete on a crafter, ffs, plus three pledges a day that can be bumbled on norm.

Earn it, or don't. It's fine the way it is.

This would be like asking for AP from burning the catapults in HRC...

How about some of us have other things to do with our lives? And you can buy the helms with gold too. AP only gets you impen which is useless in pve anyway. And your hrc analogy is awful. #peoplewhosaynotothingsthathavenothingtodowiththem

@Vapirko , I've ranked up both sides, so #YourHashtagDoesNotApplyHere

You get Undaunted credit for standard delve bosses, damage, and healing. Hell, you can get your first 30 points in one delve because they're still going by 1.5 requirements (no x10 factored in.)

No one is obligating you to devote your life to acquiring this.

The Undaunted rank is more comparable to Alliance rank, in some regards - not the skill line, but actual rank.

It is to be earned. It is quite obtainable.

No one is forced to do either.

If you want the benefits from the line (Alliance skills or Undaunted, either one.) you put in the time and acquire those benefits.

If you do not, do without the benefits.

I've characters that have leveled up one or the other. I've some that are still doing so in both.

Making it sound as if it somehow does not affect everyone equally is absurd. It's a different part of the game. You don't have to like it, but if you want the perks, you should still have to earn it.

Sugaroverdose

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Undaunted goes pretty fast nowadays to be honest, it's less of a pain than it used ot be

It's a huge pain to those who don't want PvE at all

MattT1988 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an Alliance War skill that was equal to the Undaunted passive. ONLY IF there was a pve equivalent to Vigor, Warhorn and Caltrops, maybe even Guard.

I believe that PvP players shouldn't be forced to do PvE content to get essential abilities and passive they need, but it works the other way around too. PvE players should not be forced to PvP to get a skill as essential as Vigor or Warhorn (for support players).

Alliance War level 10 can be reached in one day playing solo -_-

LOL, the reverse could be said too.

Assault/Support leveling is a huge pain to those who hate PvP.

And for those who are good at group PvE and have a good group, they can hit max undaunted in a day.

It's not that difficult, and it's good for the game to force PvPers out of their comfort zone, just as it's good to force PvEers out of their comfort zone. I support the Undaunted and Alliance War skill grinds 100%.

It cannot be said reverse it requires descent group who will agree to spend whole day for achievement speed run

@Sugaroverdose , it doesn't take a whole day. There are tons of achievements that count towards this, including killing X number of creatures in a particular dungeon, etc.

Speed runs are not the only way.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

For people who just want to spend their time in PVP it's a long, boring grind. I've been playing this game since launch (over 3 years) and still don't have max Undaunted on any character.

@IcyDeadPeople , had you run one dungeon a day per character, even before dailies and pledges were a thing, you'd have no trouble maxing Undaunted in 3 years.

• You get points for pledges
• You get points for first completes (Version I dungeons - the old 'norm')
• You get points for first completes (Version II dungeons - the old 'vet')
• You get points for hard mode completes.
• You get points for speed runs.
• You get points for no-deaths.
• You get points for doing damage, healing, blocking, ffs...
• You get points for killing x # of creatures in y dungeon.
• You get points for a daily that takes 5 minutes max & that's if you have to unlock the wayshrine to get there...

Vapirko wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about "No." You already get the option to buy the helms with AP/gold.

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Alliance war skills can be unlocked purely through PvE. Town quests award AP for a while now. Do you have the risk of being ganked? Sure. Just respawn and carry on. Is it frustrating? Only if you let it be. You know what else can be frustrating? Pugging a dungeon and not completing it or it taking four times too long because of a weak group. But it's only frustrating if you let it be. At the end of the day it's just a game. Enjoy the ride.

These at least require being in Cyrodiil, though, right? Do you relalize how many of these would have to be done to level up to rank 10?

Undaunted has been greatly simplified. You've got a 15 point daily that you can complete on a crafter, ffs, plus three pledges a day that can be bumbled on norm.

Earn it, or don't. It's fine the way it is.

This would be like asking for AP from burning the catapults in HRC...

How about some of us have other things to do with our lives? And you can buy the helms with gold too. AP only gets you impen which is useless in pve anyway. And your hrc analogy is awful. #peoplewhosaynotothingsthathavenothingtodowiththem

@Vapirko , I've ranked up both sides, so #YourHastagDoesNotApplyHere

You get Undaunted credit for standard delve bosses, damage, and healing. Hell, you can get your first 30 points in one delve because they're still going by 1.5 requirements (no x10 factored in.)

No one is obligating you to devote your life to acquiring this.

The Undaunted rank is more comparable to Alliance rank, in some regards - not the skill line, but actual rank.

It is to be earned. It is quite obtainable.

No one is forced to do either.

If you want the benefits from the line (Alliance skills or Undaunted, either one.) you put in the time and acquire those benefits.

If you do not, do without the benefits.

I've characters that have leveled up one or the other. I've some that are still doing so in both.

Making it sound as if it somehow does not affect everyone equally is absurd. It's a different part of the game. You don't have to like it, but if you want the perks, you should still have to earn it.

I've meant "speedrun over achievements", not "speedrun achievements" about time - it only depends on your perception of "day", anyway it's not available for solo players.

Merlin13KAGL

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

...anyway it's not available for solo players.

Neither is taking a keep, realistically, and both are fine.

Take it a bite at a time and it's doable. Trying to blast through it in huge chunks of time may be why some find it so unpleasant?

Vapirko

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

@Vapirko I truly beg to differ.

Vapirko wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

love when ppl bring the argument they hate pvp and dont want abilities hidden behind the pvp wall. Just admit you dont hate it you are just bad, and need that pve boss to do the same *** rotation for the 100th time or else you are ***.

Lol yep, and the hilarious thing is, they then think they are good.

This is coming from someone who does PvE/PvP, duelling, numerous clears of VmA.

PvP, although it has its issues, has at least dynamic enemies to kill or die trying.

Yup stamina proc sets META lots of dynamic there. Funny thing is this grief is coming from plebs who for the most part couldn't get a kill without Proc set's carrying them.

Far as PvE goes there is a lot more dynamics involve that a lowly proc stacker would be able to even comprehend. Let alone complete. Mobs and bosses with true mechanics don't instantly die to a 25k proc burst like players do. Take most of the vet trials for example. Hell even some of the DLC vet dungeons.

It takes way way more skill to be able to complete those, then simply instantly gear procing someone to death. But keep deluding your selves.

Undaunted levels for PvP only if PvEers can get Alliance War levels in PvE. End of story. If you are not willing to compromise then there is nothing to talk about here. You going to have to grind out those dungeons. Like the PvEers have to grind out shady as hell PvP, to get what they want.

I have two toons already full undaunted. I've also beat all content pve except for some vet trials. I didn't start pvp until about six months ago. Also don't kid yourself bruh, you don't just stack proc sets in pvp. It's way harder to be good at pvp. Pve is child's play compared to competing with good pvpers.

@Vapirko I truly beg to differ

I've posted my first outing doing just that. And was pretty successful. It really is that easy. nearly no counter play. Just saying. You can look at my last post here if you don't believe me. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4214598/#Comment_4214598
It's sad, how easy mode it is.

Im not really sure what your arguing here? So youre saying because you can make pvp so easy for yourself that undaunted shouldnt level in pvp? Also, dont use proc sets. I dont use them. Sure Im gonna die to a ganker with selenes and viper ro a damge tank with viper and tremorscale but so what? Mostly I lose to people because theyre better than I am and not because of proc sets.

IcyDeadPeople

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

...anyway it's not available for solo players.

Neither is taking a keep, realistically, and both are fine.

Take it a bite at a time and it's doable. Trying to blast through it in huge chunks of time may be why some find it so unpleasant?

188k AP is rather doable by complete beginner who hates PVP in 7 hours. 1,500 Undaunted points is a long, boring grind for anyone who hates PVE.

Back when vigor was first introduced, it took several months to get it, but now it is quite fast.

This is not even getting into how much PVE grinding is obligatory to obtain gear that is required for most PVP builds.

I'm all in favor of people who just want to do PVE being able to level up and gear up their characters exclusively in PVE, and people who just want to do PVP doing the same in either Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds.

Would be great if the BOP dungeon sets were added to the loot table of Rewards for the Worthy and Battlegrounds mails, even if there were only small chance of these dropping. Also the Golden Vendor keeps repeating a very small number of sets - would love to see a second Golden Vendor added who sells a different menu of items, perhaps for tel var stones

SHADOW2KK

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

love when ppl bring the argument they hate pvp and dont want abilities hidden behind the pvp wall. Just admit you dont hate it you are just bad, and need that pve boss to do the same *** rotation for the 100th time or else you are ***.

Lol yep, and the hilarious thing is, they then think they are good.

This is coming from someone who does PvE/PvP, duelling, numerous clears of VmA.

PvP, although it has its issues, has at least dynamic enemies to kill or die trying.

Yup stamina proc sets META lots of dynamic there. Funny thing is this grief is coming from plebs who for the most part couldn't get a kill without Proc set's carrying them.

Far as PvE goes there is a lot more dynamics involve that a lowly proc stacker would be able to even comprehend. Let alone complete. Mobs and bosses with true mechanics don't instantly die to a 25k proc burst like players do. Take most of the vet trials for example. Hell even some of the DLC vet dungeons.

It takes way way more skill to be able to complete those, then simply instantly gear procing someone to death. But keep deluding your selves.

Undaunted levels for PvP only if PvEers can get Alliance War levels in PvE. End of story. If you are not willing to compromise then there is nothing to talk about here. You going to have to grind out those dungeons. Like the PvEers have to grind out shady as hell PvP, to get what they want.

Cool story, I do not use proc sets though, monster sets is the limit I personally use.

And I personally done IC dungeons before they got nerfed to oblivion, when they were actually hard to complete

Each to their own.

The game bends over backwards for PvE, always has from Early Access PC.

To get Vigour in early days took months, level 10 Assault/Support, now you can get Vigour in less than a day.

So keep deluding yourself also that PvE takes more skill than PvP.

Once rotation and mechanics have been mastered, most PvE is faceroll easy.

Rozenwyn

Boyfriend and I just reached undaunted 9 on our Wardens after a week of taking our sweet time doing it. If you run vet pledges or just do them without them being the pledge and get the speed, hm and no death achievements with the completion (skill point yay).. it takes less than a week to reach undaunted 9.

Hell if you're competent players you can do them all without a 'proper' group. Do not need a way to level it in PvP.

KingJ

So I can level up and unlock vigor in a day at most 3 but it will take me a entire week to get undaunted 9.How is that fair or even. At least reduce the points needed to unlock undaunted like the did for AP. You can zerg surf all day and get vigor try that with dungeons I'll see how far you get.

I have no problem doing PVE I have completed every Vet trial but VHOF and their HM I just unlocked undaunted on my 2 main PVE characters 2 weeks ago and I been doing End game trials Since Dark Brotherhood. Even saying this PVE is almost mind mumbling easy after you learn it If its wasn't for the people you do it with I doubt I'll still run end game trials.

Merlin13KAGL

KingJ wrote: »

So I can level up and unlock vigor in a day at most 3 but it will take me a entire week to get undaunted 9.How is that fair or even. At least reduce the points needed to unlock undaunted like the did for AP. You can zerg surf all day and get vigor try that with dungeons I'll see how far you get.

An entire...week...

Did you miss the part where @Rozenwyn said they took their time? So you're comparing a focused grind to a leisurely gain and wondering why one takes longer than the other?

I have no problem doing PVE I have completed every Vet trial but VHOF and their HM I just unlocked undaunted on my 2 main PVE characters 2 weeks ago and I been doing End game trials Since Dark Brotherhood. Even saying this PVE is almost mind mumbling easy after you learn it If its wasn't for the people you do it with I doubt I'll still run end game trials.

So, either BS or you're somehow doing it wrong.

You need 1300 points (not 1500, as it stops after 9 and that's where the passives end too.) You can get the first 300 from basically setting foot in a delve (damage dealer, dungeon healer, etc). That leaves you 1000 points. 10 per dungeon. 24 non-DLC's (+4 if you have Hist and TG). That's 240 for one run through, not to mention 24 skill points. There are 48 "Kill things" challenges under Slayer challenges. That's another 480 points from running a handful of times. 240 points for speed runs. 240 points for no-deaths.

You get bonus points for your first pledge turn ins. You can get 30-50 points a day between non-DLC pledges and the BS undaunted daily. That's another 1250 if you complete those things once and do one day's worth of HM pledges. This doesn't even include the bonus points from completing a category.

Pick 20 of those things you despise the most, and simply don't do them. For every 2-4 more you don't care for, do additional pledges. You'll still hit Rank 9 in very little time with points to spare. You can even throw some trials in there for more points, if you wish.

If you want the alliance skills, you still have to do something. Undaunted, same damn way.

It can be done. Get out and do it.

They don't (yet) offer pre-max'd template characters on live. They don't yet carry over alliance skill rank, undaunted skill rank, MG/FG rank to all characters, skyshards, and they don't really need to.

If the situation was reversed, there's be 100 comments on here about get out and do it, git gud, learn to PvP, etc...it doesn't need to be made any easier than it already is.

Quit QQ'ing and earn it. It's what you'd tell any PvE'er that decided they wanted to PvP.

Sharee

It's a good idea. Leveling undaunted for the 8th time just isn't fun anymore, especially when all you play the game for is PvP.

Ilpagliaccio

Idk, alliance war passive/abilities were put on such a low pedestal compared to the reqs prior, it only makes sense for the same benefit to get extended to PvPers. Comparing a 1.1 mil AP gain to leveling Undaunted to max is like claiming an oil change and rebuilding an engine are similar endeavors--they're not btw.

Addressing the "new player cant make AP" argument, the lowest (yes, the lowest possible AP/hr before you might as well be afk)feasible ap gain/hr (ESO+,no delve boost and only afking for 50% of your pvp time) is 30k/hr. If you're getting less than 30k/hr in PvP atm, you're doing a lot of things wrong(if AP gains are your priority) and you would be making more AP just afking at keeps(kind of like what PvErs leveling Alliance War already do huehue). At this barely better than afking ap gain/hr, it'd only take ~36 hrs to get max Alliance War. Yes, you could set up a macro to prevent afk disconnects and afk at a keep and have Alliance War in a short time, without doing anything.If you had an organized PvP group prioritizing AP gains, about 3-5 hrs of PvP if the action is steady enough. 36 hours of might-as-well-be afking or 5 hours of actual play compared to leveling Undaunted. Brb, I'm going to afk at the Undaunted Enclave and see if I can earn Undaunted progress.

IcyDeadPeople

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

So I can level up and unlock vigor in a day at most 3 but it will take me a entire week to get undaunted 9.How is that fair or even. At least reduce the points needed to unlock undaunted like the did for AP. You can zerg surf all day and get vigor try that with dungeons I'll see how far you get.

An entire...week...

Did you miss the part where @Rozenwyn said they took their time? So you're comparing a focused grind to a leisurely gain and wondering why one takes longer than the other?

One week perhaps if you don't have work / school commitments and can run dungeons over and over all day every day. Not likely getting there in one week playing the normal amount of time most of us have available, which is closer to a few hours per day. And for speed runs / no death achievements on the veteran dungeons you need to first get significant experience doing these dungeons, takes time to learn all the different mechanics. You also need to team up with experienced players.

I have several max level characters, been playing this game 3 years and still nowhere near max Undaunted rank on any of them. Recently I stopped doing PVP and switched to PVE for a period of about 2 weeks, running only dungeons every day because I wanted to get one of the monster helm shoulders.

If you play for a few hours per day, and you don't have a lot of PVE experience or belong to PVE guilds etc, you can usually do about 2 or 3 pledges in a day with group finder. Sometimes you can complete the dungeon pretty quickly, and sometimes it takes a lot of deaths, or some people quit and you end up waiting a long time inside the dungeon hoping the server assigns a replacement player before you just give up and restart.

KingJ wrote: »

I have no problem doing PVE I have completed every Vet trial but VHOF and their HM I just unlocked undaunted on my 2 main PVE characters 2 weeks ago and I been doing End game trials Since Dark Brotherhood. Even saying this PVE is almost mind mumbling easy after you learn it If its wasn't for the people you do it with I doubt I'll still run end game trials.

Yes, turns out there are a lot of people who really enjoy doing these dungeons over and over. Others may find it boring. And some hate PVP, while others enjoy it. Some folks enjoy both.

Certainly would be nice those who hate PVP could level up their characters without having to do PVP at all. And would be great if people who hate PVE could not only level up Undaunted skill, but actually acquire the specific gear they need for PVP builds solely from Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds, without having to run PVE dungeons over and over.

fastolfv_ESO

i wish i could just afk in stormhaven and lvl my undaunted like pvers do in keeps. you can literally hit alliance war rank 10 without drawing a weapon in a single day repairing and going afk. Why not give pvpers the same experience in pve

MaximillianDiE

Rozenwyn wrote: »

Boyfriend and I just reached undaunted 9 on our Wardens after a week of taking our sweet time doing it. If you run vet pledges or just do them without them being the pledge and get the speed, hm and no death achievements with the completion (skill point yay).. it takes less than a week to reach undaunted 9.

Hell if you're competent players you can do them all without a 'proper' group. Do not need a way to level it in PvP.

We just ran a group of 4 and got the brand new warden in our group vigour in 1.5 hours. We ran 2 pledges and 10 dungeons over 4+ hours to get a little over one level of undaunted. We're pvp'rs doing pve under sufference. There is literally no comparison between the two grinds. If they don't want to change that then fine - how about they swap the 4 passives to come at the start of the grind as they're compulsary in pvp with the skills which are by and large useless? That's what they did with vigour so why not with undaunted?

Darlgon

Do dolmens in Cyrodiil.

Oh, wait, thats Fighters Guild.

Sorry.. move along.

zyk

I like the idea that the Undaunted and Alliance War skill lines encourage players to step outside of their comfort zone and try something new they might not have otherwise.

But perhaps once is enough? Maybe the solution to to make these contentious skill lines account-wide.

Merlin13KAGL

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Rozenwyn wrote: »

Boyfriend and I just reached undaunted 9 on our Wardens after a week of taking our sweet time doing it. If you run vet pledges or just do them without them being the pledge and get the speed, hm and no death achievements with the completion (skill point yay).. it takes less than a week to reach undaunted 9.

Hell if you're competent players you can do them all without a 'proper' group. Do not need a way to level it in PvP.

We just ran a group of 4 and got the brand new warden in our group vigour in 1.5 hours. We ran 2 pledges and 10 dungeons over 4+ hours to get a little over one level of undaunted. We're pvp'rs doing pve under sufference. There is literally no comparison between the two grinds. If they don't want to change that then fine - how about they swap the 4 passives to come at the start of the grind as they're compulsary in pvp with the skills which are by and large useless? That's what they did with vigour so why not with undaunted?

I gather the big concern is that the two passives are required for PvP, yet fall under a PvE skill line, and vice versa for the Alliance war line, correct?

Here's a fix that would still put everyone on even ground - disable the Undaunted line entirely while in Cyrodiil (&BG) & disable the Alliance war line entirely while outside of it.

That way you no longer have to PvE at all and no one else in PvP has some benefit you do not?

Doing what you said above, you had to earn no less than 120 points (this assumes different dungeons, as it's more than a simple XP requirement.) towards the 1300 required. Not sure why everything has to be obtainable in a day's playtime.

I've a character that's yet to be fully geared out that's sitting at Undaunted 4.5. I've a total of 9 keys from pledges on this one, 4 of which were acquired last night from two pledges.

The +Stat bonus and +Synergy bonus are not required to PvP. They are bonuses... They can be acquired over time and you'll still be fine. They can be not acquired at all, and you're losing 6% at most.

zyk wrote: »

I like the idea that the Undaunted and Alliance War skill lines encourage players to step outside of their comfort zone and try something new they might not have otherwise.

But perhaps once is enough? Maybe the solution to to make these contentious skill lines account-wide.

Until the major milestones are account wide, Alliance war skill line included, I'd sooner see the Alliance war skill line go back to its previous, larger AP requirement for the skills than to see Undaunted dumbed down further.

It's vastly easier than what it once was, & if you're wanting to have maximum benefit, it should still be earned.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

So I can level up and unlock vigor in a day at most 3 but it will take me a entire week to get undaunted 9.How is that fair or even. At least reduce the points needed to unlock undaunted like the did for AP. You can zerg surf all day and get vigor try that with dungeons I'll see how far you get.

An entire...week...

Did you miss the part where @Rozenwyn said they took their time? So you're comparing a focused grind to a leisurely gain and wondering why one takes longer than the other?

One week perhaps if you don't have work / school commitments and can run dungeons over and over all day every day. Not likely getting there in one week playing the normal amount of time most of us have available, which is closer to a few hours per day. And for speed runs / no death achievements on the veteran dungeons you need to first get significant experience doing these dungeons, takes time to learn all the different mechanics. You also need to team up with experienced players.

I have several max level characters, been playing this game 3 years and still nowhere near max Undaunted rank on any of them. Recently I stopped doing PVP and switched to PVE for a period of about 2 weeks, running only dungeons every day because I wanted to get one of the monster helm shoulders.

If you play for a few hours per day, and you don't have a lot of PVE experience or belong to PVE guilds etc, you can usually do about 2 or 3 pledges in a day with group finder. Sometimes you can complete the dungeon pretty quickly, and sometimes it takes a lot of deaths, or some people quit and you end up waiting a long time inside the dungeon hoping the server assigns a replacement player before you just give up and restart.

@IcyDeadPeople <40 days. <40 days if you're doing normal mode pledges (2) per day + the undaunted daily to finish off that last 1000 required rep to max the line.

• That's never setting foot in a non-pledge dungeon , no hard mode, no no-death's, no speed runs, not even vet mode.
• So, if it takes you twenty days to get your character to L45, you can still be max Undaunted by the time you have a full speed mount...

That's as leisure as it gets...

Ilpagliaccio wrote: »

Idk, alliance war passive/abilities were put on such a low pedestal compared to the reqs prior, it only makes sense for the same benefit to get extended to PvPers. Comparing a 1.1 mil AP gain to leveling Undaunted to max is like claiming an oil change and rebuilding an engine are similar endeavors--they're not btw.

Addressing the "new player cant make AP" argument, the lowest (yes, the lowest possible AP/hr before you might as well be afk)feasible ap gain/hr (ESO+,no delve boost and only afking for 50% of your pvp time) is 30k/hr. If you're getting less than 30k/hr in PvP atm, you're doing a lot of things wrong(if AP gains are your priority) and you would be making more AP just afking at keeps(kind of like what PvErs leveling Alliance War already do huehue). At this barely better than afking ap gain/hr, it'd only take ~36 hrs to get max Alliance War. Yes, you could set up a macro to prevent afk disconnects and afk at a keep and have Alliance War in a short time, without doing anything.If you had an organized PvP group prioritizing AP gains, about 3-5 hrs of PvP if the action is steady enough. 36 hours of might-as-well-be afking or 5 hours of actual play compared to leveling Undaunted. Brb, I'm going to afk at the Undaunted Enclave and see if I can earn Undaunted progress.

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

i wish i could just afk in stormhaven and lvl my undaunted like pvers do in keeps. you can literally hit alliance war rank 10 without drawing a weapon in a single day repairing and going afk. Why not give pvpers the same experience in pve

@Ilpagliaccio , @fastolfv_ESO , so you'd be good if the Alliance war skill line was made longer, right, since the chief counterargument here is that the two are not taking equal time...? Because if it's taking you years to max Undaunted, you also, are doing a lot of things wrong.

And in regard to the AFKing and obtaining AP, there should be no such mechanic. However, don't blame lack of proper implementation on PvP side to required effort on the PvE side. You argue that if you focus on earning AP, you can earn AP. Same goes with Undaunted rep.

Both should require the character to do some work.

So many on here making it sound as if it's some kind of impossibility to obtain either, and it's not.

Ilpagliaccio

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Ilpagliaccio , @fastolfv_ESO , so you'd be good if the Alliance war skill line was made longer, right, since the chief counterargument here is that the two are not taking equal time...? Because if it's taking you years to max Undaunted, you also, are doing a lot of things wrong.

Idk, am I doing something wrong? I'm still afking at the Undaunted Enclave,and it still isn't progressing while afk like Alliance War does. Maybe they'll further nerf PvP reqs? 100k AP for Alliance War 10 sounds good, right? Please send help, the longer I spend in PvE, the greater chance I'll become a PvE nitwit trying to keep PvPers stuck doing content that isn't PvP because it's required to be competitive in min/max PvP--all because I care about how many dungeons it takes to get my 15th alt to max Undaunted, as if it's some sort of prestige thing and not a mindless grind for everyone involved.

Merlin13KAGL

Ilpagliaccio wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Ilpagliaccio , @fastolfv_ESO , so you'd be good if the Alliance war skill line was made longer, right, since the chief counterargument here is that the two are not taking equal time...? Because if it's taking you years to max Undaunted, you also, are doing a lot of things wrong.

Idk, am I doing something wrong? I'm still afking at the Undaunted Enclave,and it still isn't progressing while afk like Alliance War does. Maybe they'll further nerf PvP reqs? 100k AP for Alliance War 10 sounds good, right? Please send help, the longer I spend in PvE, the greater chance I'll become a PvE nitwit trying to keep PvPers stuck doing content that isn't PvP because it's required to be competitive in min/max PvP--all because I care about how many dungeons it takes to get my 15th alt to max Undaunted, as if it's some sort of prestige thing and not a mindless grind for everyone involved.

Quoted from above for your convenience.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And in regard to the AFKing and obtaining AP, there should be no such mechanic. However, don't blame lack of proper implementation on PvP side to required effort on the PvE side.

The other option I offer up is to remove the Undaunted 'requirement' from PvP entirely, then you won't feel the need to have the line and you'll still be on the same footing as every other PvPer out there that also doesn't have the line.

Ilpagliaccio

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And in regard to the AFKing and obtaining AP, there should be no such mechanic. However, don't blame lack of proper implementation on PvP side to required effort on the PvE side.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Quoted from above for your convenience.

Because offering a cop-out disclaimer about ideology while discussing pragmatics is worthwhile mentioning?