Pro mag blades. Need your help, to figure out how to fight a specific stamblades build.

CavalryPK

This keeps happening specifically in the cp pvp.

My build is 5x transmutation back bar, 5x riposte front bar and 2x skoria . 7 light, all impen.

Stamblade build that is kicking my ars:
5x ethereal hunt back bar bow, 5x Viper front bar 2h, .and 2x trolling.

Story;
Yesterday I ran into approx 5 or 6 stamblades, i strongly beleive that they all were running the build mentioned above. Based on the healing , traps on the ground and my death recap.

Unlike when fighting other players i consistently have issues fighting this particular build. I constantly miss my spectral bows, my incap almost always is dodged. Even if i am able to take them down to low health, with mark or detect pot on, they seem to be able to heavy enough stamina to dodge my 5-7 impales before they recover.

I feel like i seriously need to l2p against this class, any feedback would be appreciated. I would also greatly appreciated any attempt to practice fights.

Thank you,

Xvorg

CP or no CP campaign? I saw a couple of those last Saturday.

CavalryPK

@Xvorg its Cp , i think i mentioned it in the post.

GreenSoup2HoT

If your outnumbered against viper builds, assume your gonna die. I'd strongly suggested slotting scorching flare against nightblades if they pose that much of an issue for you. Deny cloak and let your DoTs eat them alive. Also a well timed meteor + fear can be a nasty combo. Most stamblades will run away from a destro ult imo.

Troll king has been targeted by the community along with proc sets to receive the nerf bat, rightfully so but you'll have to endure until it happens.

OdinForge

I don't consider myself a "pro" at magnb, but it's the class I use to do all my dueling with these days. 5 eternal hunt + 5 viper is a solidly annoying spec for stamnb, but it works best when running away or with available LOS. If you add multiple stamnbs with this same setup, then you probably have better things to do than fight them alone. If you add troll king to that setup it becomes silly broken, especially with multiple stamnbs.

From a 1v1 perspective though this should be an easy win or a draw, depending largely on the stamnb player (no los). Magnb doesn't need to chase stamnb in eternal ***, so the set is less valuable. Just slot mark or use a detect pot when he tries to cloak and heal. Troll king will make the fight go on forever, especially if that nb is a race like Khajiit.

Fire your arrow when he's gap closing to you, before he hits you with fear/maim. I like to use soul assault but it's hard countered by cloak, it's cheap though and sometimes you can get an easy kill with it (especially if skoria procs during it, and you land an arrow before starting it).

You should be able to build enough sustain to never really be threatened by such a build in a 1v1, as a magnb anyway.

LegacyDM

Soul assault brother.

Don't expect to 1vx good stamblades. Mobility and burst is too high. If it's a 1v1 a well timed fear with a soul assault should end things.

NightbladeMechanics

Nightblade v nightblade is a battle of tempo. You have to control the fight from the start. If you find yourself reacting to their movements, then you're losing.

Use mark to deny cloak. I never leave home without it. They'll likely call you cheese.

Use fear as they gap close in to get the first cc. Hold block as you do so to block incap in case they get it off first. This interrupts their aggression.

They are squishy and don't have the best healing, so use Assassin's Will for pressure.

Make them dodge roll deliberately. Fire Wills to make them roll. Start charging a heavy attack at them. Most will try to roll that, but keep charging it fully so that it fires after they come out of the roll. I see very few players holding attacks for the ends of dodge rolls.

Line of sight complicates things. It's ideal to move the fight into the open. However, if they start humping a tree, go get in their face and chase them. Tab target them so that you can see them through terrain, and don't forget to keep mark up. Run around the opposite way they are to try and hit them with a fear.

If they go full los or escape mode, though, don't expect to catch them. You kill stamblades by turning on them when they're trying to kill you, not when they are on the retreat.

thankyourat

Troll king is such a stupid set. What i find to be good against stamblades is agony as a CC. With agony, crippling grasp, shade, and cloak a stamblade will never be able to get close to you. My combo i use when dueling stamblades is assasins will into agony, followed by soul assault when they break free most stamblades will instantly dodge roll or cloak after taking a unblocked bow and soul assault will prevent both (if skoria procs the fight is over) it's a little trickier for me when fighting open world because i replace mark with cloak so my nightblade vs nightblade fights become stupid lol. I also use fear open world which requires me to get in melee range of the stamblade. I think overall is Mark target is the key. If you don't markthen it will be insanely hard to pressure then especially because enternal hut will make it difficult to keep them cc'd when using fear. I try to set up all my combos for when they gap close that was you can use fear both offensively and defensively at the same time. Stamblade is actually the class i have the most trouble fighting.

QuebraRegra

what a nightmare... multigankers using the worst of the cheezspoitageproc sets

I'm certainly not good, but how about freezing them in place with an ice staff, and forcing them to burn up all their resources breaking free? What about FEAR? Seems like if you can make them burn up their resources they won't be able to roll, taking away the hunt traps.

Xsorus

Only way i've found to really fight stamina blades is to two shot them with Buffed Soul Assault into Concealed Blade

Its pretty possible on a magicka Nb

easily hit 10k on concealed blade crits.

kadar

In a 1v1 I've found Eye of Flame to work really well especially if you can couple it with an immovable pot or wait until you're CC immune. Tag them with Fear into Merciless (for the slow more than the damage) and then follow them around with Eye. You should be faster than them at this point especially with Path.

That or the old Meteor/Fear/Bow combo. If you can land that at 60-75% health, they will melt and Troll King won't have a chance to save them.

CavalryPK

Thank you every one for your input, once i have a chance I will looks over it!!!

Azurethe

Im the ultimate magbladier, feel free to ask me anything

Knootewoot

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Nightblade v nightblade is a battle of tempo. You have to control the fight from the start. If you find yourself reacting to their movements, then you're losing.

Use mark to deny cloak. I never leave home without it. They'll likely call you cheese.

Use fear as they gap close in to get the first cc. Hold block as you do so to block incap in case they get it off first. This interrupts their aggression.

They are squishy and don't have the best healing, so use Assassin's Will for pressure.

Make them dodge roll deliberately. Fire Wills to make them roll. Start charging a heavy attack at them. Most will try to roll that, but keep charging it fully so that it fires after they come out of the roll. I see very few players holding attacks for the ends of dodge rolls.

Line of sight complicates things. It's ideal to move the fight into the open. However, if they start humping a tree, go get in their face and chase them. Tab target them so that you can see them through terrain, and don't forget to keep mark up. Run around the opposite way they are to try and hit them with a fear.

If they go full los or escape mode, though, don't expect to catch them. You kill stamblades by turning on them when they're trying to kill you, not when they are on the retreat.

I always have trouble when a stamblade uses fear on me. Mostly it means my death haha.

Why do the stambuilds have all the nice and cheesy armor sets.

jakeyura

As a stamblade I feel like magblades are a breeze because I'm so familiar with their burst. Like you said spectral and encap are vital so mag blades and I use them both on my stamblade so I know exactly how to avoid them.

jakeyura

best defense for fear is to break free and roll backwards asap. Puts the other nightblade at an awkward camera angle and dodges the encap that follows.

CavalryPK

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

If your outnumbered against viper builds, assume your gonna die. I'd strongly suggested slotting scorching flare against nightblades if they pose that much of an issue for you. Deny cloak and let your DoTs eat them alive. Also a well timed meteor + fear can be a nasty combo. Most stamblades will run away from a destro ult imo.

Troll king has been targeted by the community along with proc sets to receive the nerf bat, rightfully so but you'll have to endure until it happens.

After getting my ars handed to me I have decided to always have Mark slotted on the back bar. I find it to be more reliable than the detect pots. Since I can keep it up 100 % of the fight.

If I am fighting 2+ good stambaldes I just fear then cloak. Also to help my tankiness I have decided to swap skoria for malubeth.

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't consider myself a "pro" at magnb, but it's the class I use to do all my dueling with these days. 5 eternal hunt + 5 viper is a solidly annoying spec for stamnb, but it works best when running away or with available LOS. If you add multiple stamnbs with this same setup, then you probably have better things to do than fight them alone. If you add troll king to that setup it becomes silly broken, especially with multiple stamnbs.

From a 1v1 perspective though this should be an easy win or a draw, depending largely on the stamnb player (no los). Magnb doesn't need to chase stamnb in eternal ***, so the set is less valuable. Just slot mark or use a detect pot when he tries to cloak and heal. Troll king will make the fight go on forever, especially if that nb is a race like Khajiit.

Fire your arrow when he's gap closing to you, before he hits you with fear/maim. I like to use soul assault but it's hard countered by cloak, it's cheap though and sometimes you can get an easy kill with it (especially if skoria procs during it, and you land an arrow before starting it).
You should be able to build enough sustain to never really be threatened by such a build in a 1v1, as a magnb anyway.

I have to agree with you there. when I am fighting a good stamblade... incap /fear + spectral bow never works. since they brake free and dodge the bow... since the spectral bow is sooo slow both in animation and travel time. Yesterday I found success shooting the bow before I CC so that I can follow up with impale. Mark now is permanent on my back bar.

I also found out that a good stamblade will cloak with in 3 seconds when I soul assault .. which kind of makes the that ult sub optimal.

LegacyDM wrote: »

Soul assault brother.

Don't expect to 1vx good stamblades. Mobility and burst is too high. If it's a 1v1 a well timed fear with a soul assault should end things.

Nah man.. this works only on blow average stamblades. they can cloak soul assault with in 3 seconds.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Nightblade v nightblade is a battle of tempo. You have to control the fight from the start. If you find yourself reacting to their movements, then you're losing.

Use mark to deny cloak. I never leave home without it. They'll likely call you cheese.

Use fear as they gap close in to get the first cc. Hold block as you do so to block incap in case they get it off first. This interrupts their aggression.

They are squishy and don't have the best healing, so use Assassin's Will for pressure.

Make them dodge roll deliberately. Fire Wills to make them roll. Start charging a heavy attack at them. Most will try to roll that, but keep charging it fully so that it fires after they come out of the roll. I see very few players holding attacks for the ends of dodge rolls.

Line of sight complicates things. It's ideal to move the fight into the open. However, if they start humping a tree, go get in their face and chase them. Tab target them so that you can see them through terrain, and don't forget to keep mark up. Run around the opposite way they are to try and hit them with a fear.

If they go full los or escape mode, though, don't expect to catch them. You kill stamblades by turning on them when they're trying to kill you, not when they are on the retreat.

Thank you for the detailed post.

with only 9k stamina... i am not sure if i can afford to block... but i will start blocking more and see how it goes.

Yes Mark now has permanent slot in my back bar. i found out that when i am fighting a stamblade i am mostly on defensive, which works against me. however fearing them the second they gap close actually makes big difference.

Took your advice to heart and started shooting wills as much as possible during the fight without CCing them. surprisingly it is very efficient. i think i need to change my kill combo... i need to shoot will, then i need to CC then follow up with impale... Based on the recent fights with Stambaldes i found out that good stamblades always dodges will when i CC them with fear or with incap.... the cast time/travel time for spectral bow is slow enough to let them do it.

At this point when they LOS me.... i just cloak and run away. i feel like when i chase them.. they have the control of the fight and location... i need to practice more.

Xsorus wrote: »

Only way i've found to really fight stamina blades is to two shot them with Buffed Soul Assault into Concealed Blade

Its pretty possible on a magicka Nb

easily hit 10k on concealed blade crits.

hmm interesting. concealed weapon.. i don't think i have a spot for that skill on my bars...

The_Outsider wrote: »

In a 1v1 I've found Eye of Flame to work really well especially if you can couple it with an immovable pot or wait until you're CC immune. Tag them with Fear into Merciless (for the slow more than the damage) and then follow them around with Eye. You should be faster than them at this point especially with Path.

That or the old Meteor/Fear/Bow combo. If you can land that at 60-75% health, they will melt and Troll King won't have a chance to save them.

I am not sure about EOF. I feel like if i am running EOF then i need to also run Lotus fan.. so that when they start running away i could just constantly gap close. but i would rather have cloak and mark on my back bar.

I used to use meteor fear bow combo a lot... i honestly have to say. this only works on average players.. good stamblades can brake free then block before Meteor hits them. also meteor costs a lot, i feel like having incap for major defile or soul assault for major defile is more appropriate.

jakeyura wrote: »

best defense for fear is to break free and roll backwards asap. Puts the other nightblade at an awkward camera angle and dodges the encap that follows.

I am not sure with my current stam pull i can afford a dodge... i will give it a try tho.

Takes-No-Prisoner

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Use fear as they gap close in to get the first cc. Hold block as you do so to block incap in case they get it off first. This interrupts their aggression.

This is why I love blocking.

I had a Stamblade do the classic Fear+Incap combo on me from stealth, you can break free fast enough so you can block the Incap that's coming afterwords. I'm talking like, between him poping fear, when he comes out of the fear animation you can break free and ready up block as hes pressing his Ult button for Incap.

Lol, like, what is he gonna do if he can't get fear to work for him? It just falls apart if he over exerts himself.

bubbygink

First off, I will say piercing mark is absolutely your best friend here. Without it, it seems like most of my fights with competent stamblades end in a draw because they end up using dodgeroll + rune + shuffle + cloak to get away. With mark I actually feel like stamblade is one of my easiest matchups - mark makes a big difference.

One weakness these stamblade builds have is that their health pool is squishy - by that I mean that although they have a lot of healing over time with troll king and can dodge your attacks a lot, they don't have much mitigation when you actually get a hold of them. Especially if you have Ele Drain, or ideally Mark, on them and are in light armor with sharpened, you should come close to fully penetrating their armor. They typically don't have a large health pool, and they won't have any kind of shield. Especially if they aren't at full health, I can typically finish a stamblade who gets a little too aggressive with a single soul tether + bow combo when I time it right (more on that below).

For 1v1s against these builds it is important not to lose total control of the fight - this is pretty important in all fights for a magblade but is absolutely critical against these super bursty opponents. If you find yourself forced to spam shields against them then you are dead - you won't be able to recover like you may be able to against other lower damage opponents. Try to keep up pressure on them. One thing that can help you stay in control are immov pots. While not necessary they certainly help you keep control. You want to land as many spectral bows as possible to keep them healing instead of surprise attacking. Also, as others have said, try to block their incap. They love to use incap after ambush to empower it so watch for it then.

I find that when you keep control of the fight well, the stamblade will make a mistake and try to do what it does best - just unleash as much burst as possible on you. I feel like most of my stamblade kills come when a stamblade, who should have waited a second or two and healed, decides to ambush me instead - and then I tether him the second he closes the gap and finish him with a spectral bow. So my main advice would be to watch the stamblade's health closely and wait for him to overextend himself and go on the offensive when he should be healing up - that is when you strike. I see that you are using incap and you could use that as well - I just prefer tether because it can't be dodge-rolled out of and is AOE so it is useful if multiple targets are on me.

Tl;dr: mark is amazing, keep control of the fight, strike when the stamblade overextends.

CavalryPK

@bubbygink, Thanks man! I am going to use tether going forward. and see how it works. it might be better the incap... i just liked the dmg bonus and healing debuff it provided... which has no point if it dodged.

kadar

CavalryPK wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

In a 1v1 I've found Eye of Flame to work really well especially if you can couple it with an immovable pot or wait until you're CC immune. Tag them with Fear into Merciless (for the slow more than the damage) and then follow them around with Eye. You should be faster than them at this point especially with Path.

That or the old Meteor/Fear/Bow combo. If you can land that at 60-75% health, they will melt and Troll King won't have a chance to save them.

I am not sure about EOF. I feel like if i am running EOF then i need to also run Lotus fan.. so that when they start running away i could just constantly gap close. but i would rather have cloak and mark on my back bar.

I used to use meteor fear bow combo a lot... i honestly have to say. this only works on average players.. good stamblades can brake free then block before Meteor hits them. also meteor costs a lot, i feel like having incap for major defile or soul assault for major defile is more appropriate.
.

Yeah, the Eye strategy allowed me to win a couple duels against the best sNB I know. Mostly it's because it's undodgeable damage that continuously breaks their Cloak (I don't have bar space for Mark). Keeping up with them is not really an issue if you can land Bow and/or Fear first or shortly after you pop it.

As for meteor, it will still out damage Soul Harvest VS. a medium armor Stamblade in my experience simply because of Soul Harvest's high failure rate. They are continuously dodging, and even if they don't you've still got a 15% chance to miss from shuffle. Meteor is at least, undodgeable and at best hits like a truck. It also offers better group utility in BGs or other group play where I feel Soul Harvest is more situational.

Xvorg

The_Outsider wrote: »

In a 1v1 I've found Eye of Flame to work really well especially if you can couple it with an immovable pot or wait until you're CC immune. Tag them with Fear into Merciless (for the slow more than the damage) and then follow them around with Eye. You should be faster than them at this point especially with Path.

That or the old Meteor/Fear/Bow combo. If you can land that at 60-75% health, they will melt and Troll King won't have a chance to save them.

EoTS is one of the biggest enemies of stamblades

In the case of gankers, I used a combo with radiant + soul tether + LA in my bowblade. I suppose it works with flame staff too. The trick is to survive the stun and recover health. Once the gank has failed, most stamblades are easy to kill