One CP campaign is ripping my guild apart

Nermy

geonsocal wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

Believe me, if the answer was that f**king simple, I wouldn't have spent an hour writing the post

best response ever...

looks though like you're either gonna have to draw a line in the sand or evolve...can't make everyone happy - so, do what you think is right...

Thanks, that's just the support and thoughtful kinds of words I need to hear right now.

Baobab_Theoldtree

Hang in there Nermy, ep needs you.

prootch

There is absolutly not pb with that guild rule.

Nermy we have that same rule of "no PvP in other factions" outside DC, and everyone holds to it.
People who actually have characters in others factions just do not use it in PvP.

We had to push a few faction jumpers out along the years (4 or 5), and most of them understood and left without any fuss. ZOS does not help but ultimately it all comes down to friends loyalty (faction loyalty is artificial, friends loyalty in AvA seems to be the core atm). Since our rule strictly applies with no discussion allowed, we have people playing with EP/AD chars in pve, who will clearly never set foot on the other factions in PvP.

Now the minute you establish a tolerance, you will have people finding some good reason to reroll elsewhere. But some faction jumpers often have some other unspoken motives than the actual "friends in other factions": like playing the easy part of the map during daytime (that is AD due to morningcap at the moment) or fight in some winning faction at anytime, or getting 15k additionnal po in the end (saw it actually). Yet AD is definitely not "dominating" anything except woodcap : prime time is spawn keeps time for them most of the evenings, and as soon as the emp is down part of them strangely disappears from the map.

Clearly I see many AD switching to DC when the tide gets against them in prime time : being the lame part of AvA in my opinion. I think peoples char should be faction locked on a said campaign, and not allowed to relog an enemy toon on the same campaign. Which clealy means we would need a second CP campaign anyway (and without these shi.t queue everynight).

Appart from the cheaty behaviour faction jumps sometimes produces (AP swappers for ex), it leads to downright ridiculous behavious when some relog ennemy toons to fight vs or help a potential emp or their own faction with an ennemy toon.

Allowing faction switch on the same campaign is also the best way to see people avoiding to fight some friends in the opposite faction or to get some fuss inside a guild when some get to fight each other and ego gets in the fray (most of the people we had to push out being due to this).

The rule is good, factions jumpers need to leave the guild. After all it's their choice.

Nermy

Blimey Prootch, you can write posts that make sense! lol! Thanks mate

I have to say, thanks to everyone who has written well-thought answers, really appreciated. Also thanks to those who have whispered me their support. Again, much appreciated.

At the moment the vote is swinging towards dropping the rule (feels like Brexit all over again!) and we have our weekly guild meeting tonight so I will keep those of you who interested informed of the outcome.

Turelus

Nermy wrote: »

Blimey Prootch, you can write posts that make sense! lol! Thanks mate

I have to say, thanks to everyone who has written well-thought answers, really appreciated. Also thanks to those who have whispered me their support. Again, much appreciated.

At the moment the vote is swinging towards dropping the rule (feels like Brexit all over again!) and we have our weekly guild meeting tonight so I will keep those of you who interested informed of the outcome.

Remember Nermy, strong and stable leadership, strong and stable.

Don't let the coalition of chaos win!

prootch

Nermy wrote: »

Blimey Prootch, you can write posts that make sense! lol! Thanks mate
I have to say, thanks to everyone who has written well-thought answers, really appreciated. Also thanks to those who have whispered me their support. Again, much appreciated.
At the moment the vote is swinging towards dropping the rule (feels like Brexit all over again!) and we have our weekly guild meeting tonight so I will keep those of you who interested informed of the outcome.

Well, when the subject is not pure forum bs

Now if you drop this rule you will have more and more jumpers, and sooner or later people who will refuse to fight each other or... wil get mad because they did fight each other.

Nermy

prootch wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

Blimey Prootch, you can write posts that make sense! lol! Thanks mate
I have to say, thanks to everyone who has written well-thought answers, really appreciated. Also thanks to those who have whispered me their support. Again, much appreciated.
At the moment the vote is swinging towards dropping the rule (feels like Brexit all over again!) and we have our weekly guild meeting tonight so I will keep those of you who interested informed of the outcome.

Well, when the subject is not pure forum bs

Now if you drop this rule you will have more and more jumpers, and sooner or later people who will refuse to fight each other or... wil get mad because they did fight each other.

We'll see mate. I have some good ideas about how to allow a bit of flexibility and allow other members to play other factions while keeping Wabba strictly EP.

Takes-No-Prisoner

As someone who is a purist like the OP is for AD, this is disheartening to read. I don't know what to tell you.

Karivaa

While I understand how people feel, I have no problem with my friends killing me when I play on another alliance. Let's keep it fun! Chill.

Nermy

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

As someone who is a purist like the OP is for AD, this is disheartening to read. I don't know what to tell you.

OP is EP.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Nermy wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

As someone who is a purist like the OP is for AD, this is disheartening to read. I don't know what to tell you.

OP is EP.

I know silly :P I was referring to myself, I'm AD only. But I share in how the OP feels about making those alliance choices.

Grumble_and_Grunt

If Prootch agrees with you then you know you're doing something wrong

ItchyTheRat

RIP Wabbajack, it was fun while it lasted

prootch

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

If Prootch agrees with you ...

some rageboy is having anger control issues

Turelus

Nermy, that strong and stable thing, don't do that! Apparently it doesn't work very well.

Rohamad_Ali

Back 3 years ago there was a faction restriction of one character per faction each campaign . It could be bypassed but that was not intended . So it makes sense there were guilds set around faction loyalty such as yours . A lot of these players are newer now and probably don't understand the situation the changes created for those guilds built around the old system .

I wish you luck in moving forward . I'm in a one faction PVP guild because I like it personally . No one has to join if they don't want too so we're not forcing anyone to do something they don't want . There's a lot of players that like it though . I'm sure you'll get through this even if there's a change in the guard . Best of luck .

Biro123

Sorry to hear this. I don't have any answers but hope you guys come through it.

I'd only suggest that if you do decide to allow members to faction swap, have a policy on what happens when you see them on another faction. I'd strongly suggest that policy should be kill on sight. Not out of vindictiveness, but just to remove any confusion. I've seen on other games friends on other factions not fighting, or stopping fighting when others join in. There nothing worse than trying to help a faction ally in combat only to find they stop fighting to let you get killed by their 'friends'. That WILL be bad for the faction. Or games where you recognise the opposition abs thing 'are we fighting today or being friendly?'. Anything other than kill on sight for all enemies is just damn confusing.

Drakkdjinn

Nobody ever played CP Haderus except to trade emperor PvDooring undefended keeps and faceroll IC bosses. It's literally identical this patch save the IC part.

For all intents and purposes, there are the same number of CP campaigns this time around as there were last -- perhaps join a guild not full of dramaqueens?

Nermy

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

For all intents and purposes, there are the same number of CP campaigns this time around as there were last -- perhaps join a guild not full of dramaqueens?

I'm the guild leader.

Anyway, funnily enough we are going to stick to being Pact loyal.

Most of the members who wanted to play other alliances have left. No hard feelings. We've lost a few more members because they felt they didn't PvP enough but we also gained a few more members over the weekend who DON'T have ANY AD or DC toons. So the will to be Pact loyal is strong.

/Rawr!!!

BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!

Turelus

Nermy wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

For all intents and purposes, there are the same number of CP campaigns this time around as there were last -- perhaps join a guild not full of dramaqueens?

I'm the guild leader.

Anyway, funnily enough we are going to stick to being Pact loyal.

Most of the members who wanted to play other alliances have left. No hard feelings. We've lost a few more members because they felt they didn't PvP enough but we also gained a few more members over the weekend who DON'T have ANY AD or DC toons. So the will to be Pact loyal is strong.

/Rawr!!!

BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!

Glad to hear, I would be sad to see Wabbajack ever go away. It's a great guild with a lot of history and some amazing people.
Maybe not the guild leader though, he always makes fun of me.

prootch

that's some good piece of new.

LarsS

Nice

olsborg

one more cp camp pls

Rickter

Turelus wrote: »

Build a guild where people are loyal to the guild and and this shouldn't be an issue. In the two years I was in Wabbajack I never had an alt guild, 2nd guild, PvE guild or any of that jazz. I was committed to Wabbajack and always chose it first.
Yes you'll have a smaller guild but you'll have members who are there for that guild and want to be a part of it, recruitment of anyone who always had or then add as second guild means they're going to lose commitment to your.

Probably not the answer you wanted from me, and I agree ZOS created this mess, but if people are truly members of Wabbajack they would have chosen Wabbajack and not their other guild, replace them with new loyal members and fight on.

I agree with this. Sounds like your "friends", OP decided they were "better friends" with someone else.

Requiem was formed on the beta weekend of 3/15/2014. We've had our ups and downs. We were up, then down, then up, then down and now we're up. *** happens. Work within your means and pray that you were able to build a standing relationship with those loyal to you.

I can speak from personal experience: If you have the will to continue, you can. You will see many good members come and go. I cant tell you how many strong, contributing members I've seen leave the game or guild over various reasons. Example: I had the father of Master Merchant in my guild. That's right! Khaibit, the author of ShopKeeper was in Requiem and raided with us 3 times a week. and thats just a drop in the bucket of strong positive members that came and went. and i miss them all, even the ones that were most hurtful.

Drakkdjinn

Nermy wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

For all intents and purposes, there are the same number of CP campaigns this time around as there were last -- perhaps join a guild not full of dramaqueens?

I'm the guild leader.

Anyway, funnily enough we are going to stick to being Pact loyal.

Most of the members who wanted to play other alliances have left. No hard feelings. We've lost a few more members because they felt they didn't PvP enough but we also gained a few more members over the weekend who DON'T have ANY AD or DC toons. So the will to be Pact loyal is strong.

/Rawr!!!

BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!

Even better, /gkick the drama queens. The number of CP campaigns is not related to this issue at all.

AbraXuSeXile

Im an old school guild leader, exile has to be main guild and you can only pvp on DC even though i dont care about factions its a statement to what the guild is.

Im willing to lose any member if they break the guilds rules, It's dealt with swiftly.

It's your option to relax your rules or rule with an iron fist though.

A realization is that even they are pvping somewhere else then they are not pvping with you so it's not a loss.

I really do hope you sort it though, The game is losing guilds at an alarming rate and WJ being a very old guild it would be sad for you to hit irreversible problems.

The problem with being a guild leader is; Worker bees can leave, Even drones can fly away. The Queen is their slave.

Avalinia

Nermy wrote: »

My guild, The Wabbajack (WJ), has always been Pact loyal since it was created the week after release. We recently had our 3rd birthday. We have always had rules that members are not allowed to play on the the guild's home campaign with toons from other alliances. Some of my members don't even have any characters in other alliances, I include myself in this.

Now ZoS in it's infinite wisdom has reduced the number of CP campaigns to 1. This is causing immense pain and upset within my guild as some members have toons on other alliances and wish to play with them.

Let me outline what happened...

One of our long-time members (let's call her Z) left because her PvE guild (who she had been with from release) were creating a PvP guild. Sadly they chose to be mainly DC. So our member and friend felt her position in WJ was untenable so she left sending me a lovely mail to explain.

Two further members (for over a year) felt the same, though these two were two of my officers who had helped me build WJ into a nice strong guild. They were in the same guild and friends with Z for longer than they had been in WJ. Now they felt their position untenable. One of my other officers also wanted to play with her AD friends in another guild.

So, as guild leader, I was left with 2 choices, change the direction of the guild, and hopefully keep my friends and fellow guild members, or lose them.

I put this to the guild and as you would expect, some members were fine with this - others dead-set against it. There have been a lot of angry words spoken and it really hurts me that we have been brought to this. My friends feel even worse. I understand both sides of the argument, I really do but to be honest, ZoS has created this situation and eroded alliance loyalty to the point where why should anyone really care. Campaigns are dead because 1 alliance rules the map and PvP gets no love and is really what brought a lot of players to the game, I've lost more friends leaving this game than I'll ever make in it again.

Let's just be clear what ZoS gave us:

1. A five guild system - players are not bound to one guild, therefore guild loyalty is non-existent.
2. One Tamriel - allowed players to play on any alliance in the same PvP campaign. Eroding alliance loyalty.
3. One CP campaign - this means our rule of being 'Pact Loyal' is eroded as some members wish to play with friends on other alliances and have no other campaign to fight on.

We've put it to a vote, whether to relax the rule or not, but I just want to thanks ZoS and in particular @Brian_Wheeler for not asking the community and not having the vision or foresight to see this would cause an issue. A very painful issue. This is a game, I should not feel like this because of a game.

I would also like to hear from anyone who has a similar story, issue or concern.

@Turelus - Tagging you Tarvy as an old member and ex-leader.

TL;DR - Having 1 CP campaign is totally destroying alliance allegiance and pulling apart guilds.

I don't want to jump on a bandwagon, and I'm not going to tell you that your rule is stupid, because quite frankly eh.

But isn't it a bit unfair to be whining over only having one campaign to play on in CP, when it's been that way for non CP player for awhile now? I mean, yes, realistically they should have FIVE campaigns: 30 Day Non-CP, 30 Day CP, 7 Day Non-CP, 7 Day CP, Under Level 50. That would ultimately be the best course of action, but they've made no indication that the game was going to stay as it is currently. Can't you just, not to be rude, but deal for a little while and let those players who have been maining Non-CP have the option of playing in different campaigns?

And I'm sure someone is going to mention Blackwater (I can't remember the new name), but really? That campaign is supposed to be for new players in all honesty.

Just give it time and see where it goes. Hopefully it will go into the five campaign direction, because that would be splendid, but only time will tell. As for now, why not just.. I don't know, promote a possible trial of sorts with dropping the rule until the issue is fixed. Your guild doesn't have to drop the rule permanently. The fact that they already changed it once, should prove the possibility that they may do it again.

Baconlad

I love seeing my guildies on different factions...i zoom in on them and will siucide into a zerg just to *** with my buds. Then call them out for being AD scum in my guild chat...if your peeps are good enough friends, doesnt matter what faction they play with, once in awhile invite them to play on EP, and you make a DC toon to play with them... doesnt sound like theres much friendship if ur all wonky about them swapping factions.

NyassaV

I'd like Haderus back too... Or you could just change your silly rule in the mean time?

AbraXuSeXile

These guys play for faction and want another reason to fight thats not endlessly fragging people for no reason.