Does the Nord need a buff?

hmsdragonfly

If you are a new player (without the all races all alliances pack) and you choose EP, you don't have any good option for a stam-based PvE DPS.

Take a quick look at all 3 alliances:
DC:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Redguard.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Redguard and Orc.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Breton, not the best but it works.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Breton.
- Healer: Checked. Breton
- Tank: Checked. Orc.

AD:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Khajiit.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Khajiit and Bosmer.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Altmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Altmer.
- Healer: Checked. Altmer. (lol, Altmer master race for a reason)
- Tank: Checked. Woeler.

EP:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Ummm... nothing.
- Stam-based PvP DPS: Umm, Nord StamDKs and Stamsorcs are pretty decent. Checked, but still a little bit lackluster here.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Dunmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Dunmer.
- Healer: Checked. Argonian. Sometimes Dunmer.
- Tank: Checked. Argonian and Nords.

So, I think Nords can use some small buffs for their PvE DPS's capability. We don't really need a bonus to Cold damage, as Dunmer can already fill in the role of mag-based DPS for EP, we need some bonuses to stam-based PvE DPS.

Strider_Roshin

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

If you are a new player (without the all races all alliances pack) and you choose EP, you don't have any good option for a stam-based PvE DPS.

Take a quick look at all 3 alliances:
DC:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Redguard.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Redguard and Orc.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Breton, not the best but it works.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Breton.
- Healer: Checked. Breton
- Tank: Checked. Orc.

AD:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Khajiit.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Khajiit and Bosmer.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Altmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Altmer.
- Healer: Checked. Altmer. (lol, Altmer master race for a reason)
- Tank: Checked. Woeler.

EP:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Ummm... nothing.
- Stam-based PvP DPS: Umm, Nord StamDKs and Stamsorcs are pretty decent. Checked, but still a little bit lackluster here.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Dunmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Dunmer.
- Healer: Checked. Argonian. Sometimes Dunmer.
- Tank: Checked. Argonian and Nords.

So, I think Nords can use some small buffs for their PvE DPS's capability. We don't really need a bonus to Cold damage, as Dunmer can already fill in the role of mag-based DPS for EP, we need some bonuses to stam-based PvE DPS.

What would you suggest though that won't be over the top? Extra damage when using a 2H? Extra damage briefly after receiving damage? Extra resources after receiving damage? Increasing max stam to +9%? Or something else?

Avran_Sylt

Make all racial passives slight bonuses to max resources, resource cost, or resource regen (base body) Then, take all the current character passives and assign them to "lifestyles" (mind, which controls how the body is built)

hmsdragonfly

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

If you are a new player (without the all races all alliances pack) and you choose EP, you don't have any good option for a stam-based PvE DPS.

Take a quick look at all 3 alliances:
DC:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Redguard.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Redguard and Orc.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Breton, not the best but it works.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Breton.
- Healer: Checked. Breton
- Tank: Checked. Orc.

AD:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Checked. Khajiit.
- Stam-based PvP: Checked. Khajiit and Bosmer.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Altmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Altmer.
- Healer: Checked. Altmer. (lol, Altmer master race for a reason)
- Tank: Checked. Woeler.

EP:
- Stam-based PvE DPS: Ummm... nothing.
- Stam-based PvP DPS: Umm, Nord StamDKs and Stamsorcs are pretty decent. Checked, but still a little bit lackluster here.
- Mag-based PvE DPS: Checked. Dunmer.
- Mag-based PvP: Checked. Dunmer.
- Healer: Checked. Argonian. Sometimes Dunmer.
- Tank: Checked. Argonian and Nords.

So, I think Nords can use some small buffs for their PvE DPS's capability. We don't really need a bonus to Cold damage, as Dunmer can already fill in the role of mag-based DPS for EP, we need some bonuses to stam-based PvE DPS.

What would you suggest though that won't be over the top? Extra damage when using a 2H? Extra damage briefly after receiving damage? Extra resources after receiving damage? Increasing max stam to +9%? Or something else?

I think a small bonus to weapon damage is nice. Simple, but have to make sure it's not over the top.

binaryAegis

Joy_Division wrote: »

The Nord racial passive isn't as good as you are making it out to be.

You want to say the that passive reduces the damage a nord would have taken by 6%, but that is disingenuous, because it's 6% of a (potentially a lot) lower value from the original hit.

It's not disingenuous, the entire point I was making with that post was to demonstrate what that "6% of a lower value" actually translates to when you look at the big picture, which in this case means having the highest potential Max Health in the game (15.95%), as well as a fairly decent effective increase to your Healing Received and Damage Shield Strength (6.38%), and Health Recovery (27.65% when factored with their other health recovery bonus).

It all comes down to math; you're more than welcome to double check the work I've done, but in the end you'll find that it ends up working out exactly the way I've described.

Anti_Virus

Add this,

Deals 3% more damage with 2 handed weapons

victorhrpereira

If nords were good, you would see them being recommended on most builds out there besides health regen. But they are just a poor man's imperial lacking anything unique (the rugged passive isn't even noticiable to be considered an unique trait)

binaryAegis

victorhrpereira wrote: »

(the rugged passive isn't even noticiable to be considered an unique trait)

Mathematically it is effectively the same thing as increasing your Max Health, Healing received, Damage Shield Strength, and Health Recovery by 6.38%, and this is true regardless of whatever other sources of mitigation you have. I made a thread going over the math behind it on reddit and there's two links to it on the first page of this thread.

Asardes

I think the passive doesn't properly stack with minor/major protection and CP mitigation. I saw a pretty detailed post with logs a while back demonstrating that. It's actually applied after all other mitigations making it especially weak if you already have high mitigation from armor, blocking and CP. IMO the passive should work exactly like protection buff.

Mysteri0n

They should take racial passives out all together, since you can do what you want with cp anyway

makreth

Each race has some niche aspect tied to it. Problem is this game is ALL (like 90% of the cases maybe) about damage output. So....you know what I mean.. Those races will prevail.

binaryAegis

Asardes wrote: »

It's actually applied after all other mitigations making it especially weak if you already have high mitigation from armor, blocking and CP. IMO the passive should work exactly like protection buff.

The order that different forms of mitigation are applied only matter when Damage Shields are involved, because some forms of mitigation apply to damage shields (rugged is one of these) and others don't. Without accounting for damage shields, the order that different forms of mitigation are applied does not matter because the values are multiplied together and therefore the final damage total will be the same regardless of what order they are applied in.

As for the rugged passive specifically, it's a common misconception that it gets less effective as you add additional mitigation. The effectiveness remains the same regardless of if it takes you from 0%->6%, 50%->53%, or even 75%->76.5%. It always works out to being an effective 6.38% bonus to your Max Health, Healing Received, Damage Shield Strength, and Health Recovery.

Ragnarus

However, this thread is a little bit older - I want to push it.

Also I still have some 'trouble' with my Nord DK.
In the past I had played known MMOs where I mainly used Warrior-Tanks, or High-DPS Warriors etc.
When you come to ESO the 'step-in' phase is pretty difficult, because you don't have a clue about all the race abilities and the deep knowledge of long-term ESO-Players.

So what is the most similar 'warrior-like' race, when you think of tanking a big mob or standing in front of a Raid-Boss crushing his fist into your shield? ... I thought, yes.... it's the hardened bearded Nord.

Well, as mentioned some posts before... I was wrong - the best suitable race is not the nord. So what I'm doing now with him?
Ahhh, ok - I will make him to be a snarling, bloodthirsty stam-DK.
Well, nope! Also this way is not the best suitable race.

What can I do to bring the nord to a very/or best valuable race within his scope? Presently, I don't have an idea. No matter what I'm do, there will always be a better race for a specific class-theme.

Don't get me wrong - i like all the differences of the races and I think it's important to have variances to keep the individuality high. But in my opinion there must be a option to fill up the gaps of all races. There must be potentials to make his race to one of the best in his class-theme.

My suggestions:
- special armory-sets for nords-only (imperial-only, etc.), or negated: special sets are restricted to multi-hybrid race argonian, etc.
- race-specific CP-Points
- more passive skills which do counteract with armory or active skills.

Witar

Nords are stupid and distrustful of magicks. Mage races are supposed to be smart to get extra magicka. Giving nords magicka passive will be extremely bad choice lorewise.

Kadoin

Ah, there is always a post on the forums asking for buffs to something without thinking about the consequences of doing so, and justified with faulty logic. Never change, forums. Never change.

agegarton

In all honesty, Imperials and Nords are just not the best at anything given how the game mechanics have progressed over time. Both could use some serious love, but Nord more than anything.

It has been a long time since the racial passives were updated, so I'd say we're long overdue. As @hmsdragonfly said above, if you're playing EP without the any race / any class addition, you're pretty much stuffed if you want a stam based DPS. It's a crying shame, as Nord would be my fave race but for the fact they're just too weak.

Until then, in the words of James Brown: Nords! Huh! What are they good for.....? Absolutely nothin'!

Tan9oSuccka

I think it’s done for a reason. People like Nords and play them despite poor racial passives.

They have to give Blues and Yellows a fighting chance in Cyrodiil. Most of them in this thread:




Nords are totally fine!

Creeper

Increase Frost Damage by 7% or damage with Two Handed by 4%. I always wanted to play an Ice build Warden and I'm currently playing with a breton, so a little frost damage increase would be nice on the nords.

wolf486

I've run a few (lower level) dungeons recently with Nord sorcs being queued with me and they did just as well as anyone else. I think they could use a bonus to two-handed however, they are more of a stam race.

I use to have a Nord Stamden and he did quite well, but I usually play "themed" characters, rather than min/maxing them.

starkerealm

Ragnarus wrote: »

However, this thread is a little bit older - I want to push it.

You probably don't. I was skimming earlier posts and was about to jump in on someone before I saw the date. The info in this thread isn't entirely accurate or up to date, which is why raising older threads like this is generally frowned upon.

Ragnarus wrote: »

Also I still have some 'trouble' with my Nord DK.
In the past I had played known MMOs where I mainly used Warrior-Tanks, or High-DPS Warriors etc.
When you come to ESO the 'step-in' phase is pretty difficult, because you don't have a clue about all the race abilities and the deep knowledge of long-term ESO-Players.

So what is the most similar 'warrior-like' race, when you think of tanking a big mob or standing in front of a Raid-Boss crushing his fist into your shield? ... I thought, yes.... it's the hardened bearded Nord.
,
Well, as mentioned some posts before... I was wrong - the best suitable race is not the nord. So what I'm doing now with him?
Ahhh, ok - I will make him to be a snarling, bloodthirsty stam-DK.
Well, nope! Also this way is not the best suitable race.

To be fair, if you're chasing after Stam DPS, the Redguard is pure cheese. That's not intended. Irronically, if you've got a Nord, the best option for them is probably exactly that, because frankly, their passives don't help them do much else. The exact explanation for why their mitigation passive is useless isn't entirely accurate, now anyway. When the posts were written it may have been.

Ragnarus wrote: »

What can I do to bring the nord to a very/or best valuable race within his scope? Presently, I don't have an idea. No matter what I'm do, there will always be a better race for a specific class-theme.

So far as it goes, it's extremely unlikely you're playing at a level where your racial pick is really exclusive like that. There are other races you could pick that would be easier to play in a given role, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

When you're talking about working towards Vet Trial clears, then you might want to consider a different racial pick, but if you're not there yet, don't worry about it.

Ragnarus wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - i like all the differences of the races and I think it's important to have variances to keep the individuality high. But in my opinion there must be a option to fill up the gaps of all races. There must be potentials to make his race to one of the best in his class-theme.

This is complicated, somewhat, because ESO does have 10 races, split between three different factions. So, saying, "the nords must be the best tanks," is inherently problematic when you consider that Covenant and Dominion also need viable tanking races (even though Dominion comes up short on this, and even though the Argonian is presently a better tanking pick in the Pact.)

There is a buy out allowing you to choose any race while still freely selecting your alliance, but this is a premium purchase, and not something that should be factored into basic game balance.

That said, Nords, Imperials, and Orcs, should all be viable top tier racial picks for tanking, and at present, Orcs are PvP primarily, Argonians are the top tier pick, with Imperials slightly behind them for PvE.

More than that, ESO doesn't really have heavy armor DPS outside of PvP. If you want to be a stam DPS, you're heading towards a rogue build.

Ragnarus wrote: »

My suggestions:
- special armory-sets for nords-only (imperial-only, etc.), or negated: special sets are restricted to multi-hybrid race argonian, etc.
- race-specific CP-Points
- more passive skills which do counteract with armory or active skills.

This.. is bad.

The problem with ESO is that it's emulating systems from a setting that normally has a finite power cap. There are ways to break that over your knee, but ultimately, having a higher starting heavy armor just means you'll max it out sooner. However, in ESO, there is no finite power cap. There's a soft cap which limits how far you can advance, rather than a hard cap you can reach, and then need to allocate resources elsewhere to access. So long as that's the norm, no amount of tweaking will get around the situation where races are more locked in than in the single player games.

There's a legitimate argument for this kind of lock in, as it does justify some of the setting's steriotypes in a way that the single player games don't enforce on the player. But it also creates situations like this one, where you're saying, "but everyone else does this better." Nords excel at getting drunk. That's what we've got in the game right now. If you want to play one, go ahead. You can still have fun with them.

Racial locked CP lines would be a nightmare. Racially locked sets is also not fantastic, because you'd either create a noobtrap or a mandatory BiS situation. Not sure what you mean about passives which "counteract" anything. Though if you mean passives that modify existing powers? Some races, particularly the Dark Elves and High Elves, have those. if you're looking for something like, "if you have Silver Leash" slotted, then no, not a great idea, because it locks you into that skill.

Maybe each class skill line could have one passive that was racially determined? But, that's still kinda iffy, and we'd be talking about literally creating 150 new skills to do it.

ESO_Nightingale

neverwalk wrote: »

nords needs cold damage and jarrin root for bow.

Yeah i ate that too to see what would happen. We all did.

ESO_Nightingale

Nord should gain 7% frost damage. And perhaps also 1% max magicka. The ancient nords respected and utilised frost magic.

Asardes

The 6% damage reduction passive is underrated, because for the most part it's drowned out by CP mitigation. But in fact it's equivalent to about 4K spell & physical resistance. I can definitely feel it as a medium armor player with just under 20K HP in no-CP Cyrodiil & BGs.

ATomiX96

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Add this,

Deals 3% more damage with 2 handed weapons

if you want to make it that specific it has to be more than just 3%, how about 10%

Raudgrani

Nords are good for PVP. But a buff is always welcome, of course. I run a stamplar Nord in PVP now, in Ravager, Hulking Draugr and Troll King. He's tanky as f**k, delivers high damage and has zero sustain problem. 4k health recovery when Troll King is triggered, stamrecovery without the Cyrodiil buff is 1900, yet stamina is like full all of the time now since last update.

Azurya

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I've always been a big fan of Nords, and I recommend them for my PvP builds for my stamblade, but I never see anyone suggest Nords for anything DPS related.

Essentially when the question is asked "Which race for stam DPS?"
I see Khajiit, Redguard, Orc, Imperial, Wood elf, and now I'm even seeing suggestions for Argonians for resource management purposes.

I never see Nords get recommended. Heck even as tanks I usually see people use either Imperials or Argonians.

Do you guys feel like Nords need an adjustment? I don't feel weak using one, but the lack of usage makes me wonder if an adjustment is needed.

I play NOrd too, and I played argonian before anyone else found out how good they are, but
we have some ppl saying this is best race, well that might be true, BUT
it is also true that the differences in performance are around a digit percentage,
so I feel free to play what I like with whatever race I like and it functions very well

Protoavis73

I came to ESO completely blank a few months ago and didn't know anything about differences in races and the strength that goes with it. Just thought it was the outside and you could shape your character afterwards (which is somewhat true of course).
So you've guessed it, I choose a Nord Nightblade in the Ebonheart Pact and my main weapon is a bow.
Not the best armour/weapons sets yet, but I have a 5 piece Champion of the Hist and 5 piece Dead-Water set, all purple (trying to get to gold).
I think I couldn't have made a worse choice haha, but I'm mostly playing solo (dungeons) and I'm fine at CP 250 now.
But recently I'm doing more PvE and Battlegrounds and I notice that the choice is now working against me (plus I just have to get more experience).
What would be the best thing to do? Just play with the Nord which I have now, make a new character and slowly level up to 50 (keeping the CP's) or get the adventure pack and change the race? Leaning to the last option, but not sure if it's the best choice.

Sparr0w

Protoavis73 wrote: »

I came to ESO completely blank a few months ago and didn't know anything about differences in races and the strength that goes with it. Just thought it was the outside and you could shape your character afterwards (which is somewhat true of course).
So you've guessed it, I choose a Nord Nightblade in the Ebonheart Pact and my main weapon is a bow.
Not the best armour/weapons sets yet, but I have a 5 piece Champion of the Hist and 5 piece Dead-Water set, all purple (trying to get to gold).
I think I couldn't have made a worse choice haha, but I'm mostly playing solo (dungeons) and I'm fine at CP 250 now.
But recently I'm doing more PvE and Battlegrounds and I notice that the choice is now working against me (plus I just have to get more experience).
What would be the best thing to do? Just play with the Nord which I have now, make a new character and slowly level up to 50 (keeping the CP's) or get the adventure pack and change the race? Leaning to the last option, but not sure if it's the best choice.

In all honesty gold armour doesn't do much, gold your weapons and monster set first & if you decide you'll use your armour for a long long time then gold it out.

Unless you're going for end game content no other race will really be better than another, nords have tankyness, redguards have sustain, imperial have tankyness (in the form of healing), argonians have sustain, you just have to build around your strengths.

PvP wise it's all L2P, I've seen people 1vX in the worst possible gear literally all down to skill and awareness. Post in the PvP chat for some suggestions.

Tho if you definitely did want to try something new I'd lean towards levelling a new character (I have 14) since you don't want to pay to discover you're worse off.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

As I have suggested before, Nords should come with a 5 second potion cooldown reduction. Nords should be able to drink more frequently than other races. That would be a unique sustain buff.

jlmurra2

How about a brawler type passive. When they take damage they restore stamina? This would benefit tanking, and stamina damage dealing.