Lich set is bugged.

Yakidafi

pts tooltip

Koolio

Ankael07 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno May I have someones attention here?

Koolio

Bueller

Koolio

Bueller

Gargath

I didn't notice any issues with Lich, but I also use on offensive bar a lightning Lich staff sharp daedric, while using Dyloras staff on healing bar. Both staves work ok, to me Lich always worked as intended. PC EU though.

Koolio

Gargath wrote: »

I didn't notice any issues with Lich, but I also use on offensive bar a lightning Lich staff sharp daedric, while using Dyloras staff on healing bar. Both staves work ok, to me Lich always worked as intended. PC EU though.

It's not the staff that causes issue. Between Homestead and Morrowind the conditions to proc the lich set was changed to Having to cast a move.

You never had to cast a move to proc it before. Now they changed it without notice and are just "updating" the tooltip for the new conditions.

Koolio

Anyone Anyone

Reorx_Holybeard

Since they changed the set description to match the new set conditions I'd guess the change was intentional, either a on purpose for balance reasons or by accident and they decided to keep it. At best you're going to get a "the set change was accidentally omitted from patch X notes" explanation.

Koolio

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Since they changed the set description to match the new set conditions I'd guess the change was intentional, either a on purpose for balance reasons or by accident and they decided to keep it. At best you're going to get a "the set change was accidentally omitted from patch X notes" explanation.

That I'm ok with. It them changing it without notice then changing the tooltip to "more clearly indicate" it's proc condition. Without realizing they changed the set to begin with.

Is warlock now the same proc conditions as lich or does it stay the same it's been for years?

Yakidafi

@Koolio
I had one old warlock piece and yes they updated the tooltip on it too.


in live:

Jayelf

yeh this has really screwed me over as I have been usin lich since forever. i'm sure there is some sort of breach if they just change it without anyone's knowledge.

Ankael07

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we get an insight on why this change was done? And why do it without mentioning in the patch notes?

This isnt making it easier for us to activate the 5th piece bonus.Staff users are already at a disadvantage for having 1 item slot fewer.

Koolio

Yakidafi wrote: »

@Koolio
I had one old warlock piece and yes they updated the tooltip on it too.


in live:

Thank you for going the distance. Lol.

HoloYoitsu

Considering how this "undocumented change" was introduced earlier, then reported and now suddenly tooltips are "updated", my guess is it was a bug that they couldn't figure out how to fix, so here we are with Plan B: just change the tooltips and say mission accomplished.

If ZOS was aiming to nerf the sets, they would tweak the regen/magicka return numbers, not completely redesign the proc mechanic; one is inherently easier to not only code but also fine tune from a balance perspective.

Koolio

Since your very active today I'll try my luck.

Any word
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Come on powerball

Koolio

Anyway you can "Dig into this".

I don't want this going 6 month without response like my healing ward post.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ZOS_GinaBruno

As others have noted, we did update the tooltip for this ability in today's patch so it's clearer how it's actually meant to work: you have to cast an ability while under the threshold in order for the set to proc.

Koolio

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As others have noted, we did update the tooltip for this ability in today's patch so it's clearer how it's actually meant to work: you have to cast an ability while under the threshold in order for the set to proc.

That's the problem it never worked like that before. You changed it last patch. Without a note.

Why was it changed?

Koolio

But definitely thank you for acknowledging a concern

ManDraKE

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Koolio

ManDraKE wrote: »

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Mainly because lately the trend is change it without notice and hoping the players don't catch on to it. This also adds 3-4 GCD to the proc itself. Magic for lich 5pc is 10k per minute with a condition. Amberplasm is 7500 Magic and Stam per Minute no conditions.

It maybe stupid for you but it's how they (lich and warlock) worked for the past 3 years.

Now Warlock Requires you to spend 2.5-3k magic to get 8k magic one per minute. Which doesn't really help.

ManDraKE

Koolio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Mainly because lately the trend is change it without notice and hoping the players don't catch on to it. This also adds 3-4 GCD to the proc itself. Magic for lich 5pc is 10k per minute with a condition. Amberplasm is 7500 Magic and Stam per Minute no conditions.

It maybe stupid for you but it's how they (lich and warlock) worked for the past 3 years.

Now Warlock Requires you to spend 2.5-3k magic to get 8k magic one per minute. Which doesn't really help.

it dosn't "require", is magika that you are using anyways. Spending 2.5k magika to cast a damage shield for example dosn't seems like a waste of resources, you were going to cast it anyways, you are still getting the extra magika. I don't know what kind of bars are you running, but normally you are constantly casting skills in both bars. I don't really see how this change anything, besides proc'ing the set with a double bar swap.

I agree with you about the sneak-changes, they should list everything on the patch notes, but besides that i don't really see how this is a bad change.

Ankael07

ManDraKE wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Mainly because lately the trend is change it without notice and hoping the players don't catch on to it. This also adds 3-4 GCD to the proc itself. Magic for lich 5pc is 10k per minute with a condition. Amberplasm is 7500 Magic and Stam per Minute no conditions.

It maybe stupid for you but it's how they (lich and warlock) worked for the past 3 years.

Now Warlock Requires you to spend 2.5-3k magic to get 8k magic one per minute. Which doesn't really help.

it dosn't "require", is magika that you are using anyways. Spending 2.5k magika to cast a damage shield for example dosn't seems like a waste of resources, you were going to cast it anyways, you are still getting the extra magika. I don't know what kind of bars are you running, but normally you are constantly casting skills in both bars. I don't really see how this change anything, besides proc'ing the set with a double bar swap.

I agree with you about the sneak-changes, they should list everything on the patch notes, but besides that i don't really see how this is a bad change.

Seems like you dont even use this set since you dont understand the nerf thats done here (even though its situational).

Next time they make an unnecessary hidden nerf to a set that you use you'll understand people's irritation.

HoloYoitsu

ManDraKE wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Mainly because lately the trend is change it without notice and hoping the players don't catch on to it. This also adds 3-4 GCD to the proc itself. Magic for lich 5pc is 10k per minute with a condition. Amberplasm is 7500 Magic and Stam per Minute no conditions.

It maybe stupid for you but it's how they (lich and warlock) worked for the past 3 years.

Now Warlock Requires you to spend 2.5-3k magic to get 8k magic one per minute. Which doesn't really help.

it dosn't "require", is magika that you are using anyways. Spending 2.5k magika to cast a damage shield for example dosn't seems like a waste of resources, you were going to cast it anyways, you are still getting the extra magika. I don't know what kind of bars are you running, but normally you are constantly casting skills in both bars. I don't really see how this change anything, besides proc'ing the set with a double bar swap.

I agree with you about the sneak-changes, they should list everything on the patch notes, but besides that i don't really see how this is a bad change.

For those of us who actually use Lich in our builds, the change to the proc mechanic was a very jarring and unmissable nerf the moment it was introduced. We rely on Lich proccing at the drop of a hat the second we bar swap to the bar that completes the 5 piece and not be forced to remain on that bar for an artificial "more steps until you get your regen mechanic".

With the way it functions now, not only do we have to watch till we drop below 33% to swap, needing to then cast another ability means we also have to play the RNG lotto of hoping our native regen doesn't tick that instant and put us right above 33% - meaning we often get stuck spamming skills multiple times just to drop our mag low enough for the proc. This messes up the overall smoothness of the proc and conflicts with the muscle memory of proc lich -> pop pot to maximize returns.

We're also forced to run ourselves even more dangerously low on mag to use this set. Here's a quick breakdown of how the math looks now:

• Assume an avg mag pool of 40k, you would have to be under 13,200 to proc it at 33%.
• With the new changes you have to use another ability while under 13,200 mag!
• You cannot rely on a cheap ability (like Entropy) to proc it because your native regen is higher than that. In fact the more regen you build for the harder it is to actually get Lich to proc!
• By the time you actually get Lich to proc, you now tend to have ~25% less mag left than you would before this change.

As I stated before, there is no reason for this change, if you wanted to nerf the set, why not just lower the regen bonus rather than implement all these hoops to jump through to use it? I rely on my toon being able to perform within predictable parameters to function in PvP and this change added so much instability that I have since removed Lich from all my builds.

Aeolwind

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

why is the deal? having to cast ANYTHING to get 1k magika recovery dosn't seems to tragic. With any build you are constantly bar swapping and activating skills in both bars. If in the past you were able to proc lich just by swapping bars twice in a row without casting skills, then it was stupid lol, glad they fixed it (even if they didn't acknowledge it in the patch notes)

Mainly because lately the trend is change it without notice and hoping the players don't catch on to it. This also adds 3-4 GCD to the proc itself. Magic for lich 5pc is 10k per minute with a condition. Amberplasm is 7500 Magic and Stam per Minute no conditions.

It maybe stupid for you but it's how they (lich and warlock) worked for the past 3 years.

Now Warlock Requires you to spend 2.5-3k magic to get 8k magic one per minute. Which doesn't really help.

it dosn't "require", is magika that you are using anyways. Spending 2.5k magika to cast a damage shield for example dosn't seems like a waste of resources, you were going to cast it anyways, you are still getting the extra magika. I don't know what kind of bars are you running, but normally you are constantly casting skills in both bars. I don't really see how this change anything, besides proc'ing the set with a double bar swap.

I agree with you about the sneak-changes, they should list everything on the patch notes, but besides that i don't really see how this is a bad change.

For those of us who actually use Lich in our builds, the change to the proc mechanic was a very jarring and unmissable nerf the moment it was introduced. We rely on Lich proccing at the drop of a hat the second we bar swap to the bar that completes the 5 piece and not be forced to remain on that bar for an artificial "more steps until you get your regen mechanic".

With the way it functions now, not only do we have to watch till we drop below 33% to swap, needing to then cast another ability means we also have to play the RNG lotto of hoping our native regen doesn't tick that instant and put us right above 33% - meaning we often get stuck spamming skills multiple times just to drop our mag low enough for the proc. This messes up the overall smoothness of the proc and conflicts with the muscle memory of proc lich -> pop pot to maximize returns.

We're also forced to run ourselves even more dangerously low on mag to use this set. Here's a quick breakdown of how the math looks now:

• Assume an avg mag pool of 40k, you would have to be under 13,200 to proc it at 33%.
• With the new changes you have to use another ability while under 13,200 mag!
• You cannot rely on a cheap ability (like Entropy) to proc it because your native regen is higher than that. In fact the more regen you build for the harder it is to actually get Lich to proc!
• By the time you actually get Lich to proc, you now tend to have ~25% less mag left than you would before this change.

As I stated before, there is no reason for this change, if you wanted to nerf the set, why not just lower the regen bonus rather than implement all these hoops to jump through to use it? I rely on my toon being able to perform within predictable parameters to function in PvP and this change added so much instability that I have since removed Lich from all my builds.

Very insightful. Too bad it will fall on deaf ears. The change is made, they have spoken, and this is their way of making sure this set isn't as useful as it once was.

Koolio

And we will never know why they changed it

SanTii.92

You should never swap to your restore bar without casting any skill anyways.Tho unnecessary, this is barely an issue.

Koolio

SanTii.92 wrote: »

You should never swap to your restore bar without casting any skill anyways.Tho unnecessary, this is barely an issue.

The above post will show the math why this nerf hurt. However it bothers me more that the change was made with no comment and then had to "update" the tooltip on the new conditions. Then the terrible answer from the devs that didn't make sense as to why they changed it.

Warlock set. When below 33% magic spend 3k magic to get 8k magic once per minute.

That didn't even feel right to type that set bonus lol.

Imagine if alchemist only gave you the proc for the last 15 secs your potion was on cool down. It's the same buff with almost the same conditions just more difficult to use.

Olupajmibanan

Nvm, useless post.

Koolio

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

But warlock set keeps the old function and tooltip as well. Warlock is of way less regen that lich but it has no stupid condition to proc. Might switch to that one.

From an above photo warlock was changed too.