Ice Mage Wardens?!

VierulSquirrel

Hey all, I was wanting to get peoples ideas and thoughts for builds. What sets do you all think will combo well together? Is the ice staff still a joke? Or should we all just go the meta inferno/fire mage ?

HonestGabe

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

stileanima

As the person above said, running an ice staff, even on a Warden that gains a passive bonus to frost damage, is not viable in PvE. Partly because of the taunt thing, though that can be a non-issue with some self-awareness, and in large part because ice staff does nothing to boost other sources of overall damage. Lightning staves boost your aoe damage. Fire increases single target. Equipping an ice staff in place of one of these will severely gimp you because you would be losing out on one of the other staff's benefits. It's pretty unfortunate, in my opinion, but it is what it is for now.

Linken

Well if we jump min max aside and dont bother with it and really wanna play with frost dmg just dont specc into the tri staff focus passive and you wont be bothered by the taunt anyway simple solution to that problem.

ADarklore

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly. I use Ice Staff and simply did not put any points into "Tri-Focus" passive to avoid the 'taunt'... but I use both Elemental Blockade AND Winter's Revenge...
Frost bar is: Fetcher Infection, Elemental Blockade, Winter's Revenge, Pulsar and Deep Fissure.
Backbar Lightning staff is: Blue Betty, Lotus Blossom, Expansive Frost Cloak, Elemental Drain, and Enchanted Growth... I have Ultimate Eternal Guardian on both bars.

For World Boss fights I replace backbar Lightning Staff with Resto and go into Healer role with: Siphon Spirit, Combat Prayer, Expansive Frost Cloak, Corrupting Pollen and Enchanted Growth.

Hippie4927

I, also, run an ice mage warden. Like the above, I did not put points into tri-focus and I use the Iceheart monster set.

stileanima

ADarklore wrote: »

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly. I use Ice Staff and simply did not put any points into "Tri-Focus" passive to avoid the 'taunt'... but I use both Elemental Blockade AND Winter's Revenge...
Frost bar is: Fetcher Infection, Elemental Blockade, Winter's Revenge, Pulsar and Deep Fissure.
Backbar Lightning staff is: Blue Betty, Lotus Blossom, Expansive Frost Cloak, Elemental Drain, and Enchanted Growth... I have Ultimate Eternal Guardian on both bars.

For World Boss fights I replace backbar Lightning Staff with Resto and go into Healer role with: Siphon Spirit, Combat Prayer, Expansive Frost Cloak, Corrupting Pollen and Enchanted Growth.

You're absolutely right. It depends on what content you want to run, and for what you're talking about/if you're not bothered by numbers, run whatever suits your fancy. But the cold (no pun intended) hard truth is, if you're looking to maximize your damage output, frost staff unfortunately isn't the way to go.

VierulSquirrel

What you all say about the ice staves is true. I'm trying to get people ideas for vet trial hard mode build ideas. I just like to hear peoples ideas.
Currently trying to get the Devs to balance the ice dmg but sadly they don't read posts.
Ex,. Moving the Taunt to elemental susceptibility, and making the ice staves ult cost less rather then immobilize targets since it's useless for end game PvE and with clench and chilled to immobilize you don't need it.
Then makings sets like ysgramors 5 piece around 15-20% stronger than its other elemental counterparts.

DocFrost72

"Not viable"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

OP, it is viable. Don't spend the point into the tri focus passive.

Edit for clarification: Wardens get a 6% bonus to frosy and magic damage, making their staff attacks with frost the jack of all trades, so to speak. They aren't as good as flame staves in single target, nor as good as lightning staves at AOE, but form a middle ground between those two.

In vet trials, the maim from ice staff is really useful, and spares your tank expending stamina unless they decide they want ult gen. In any case, aoe maim is really useful on trash packs. So is slowing enemies that have been grouped up.

Yes, ice staves can be useful in vet trials. Rotation and knowledge of the enemies will take care of a lot of dps numbers, and you'll be a support DPS.

VierulSquirrel

I'm talking how they scale in retrospect to the others. And on boss fights where the tank already runs heroic, and the snares that don't apply to the adds or bosses. Makes the aoe maim kinda insignificant, and any high end guild will tell you it's a dps loss to run an ice stave currently.
Yes it's "viable" just not for high end competition.
Along with the ice staves ult "immobilizing" that trial adds are immune to. It was supposed to just cost less but they changed it before it went live.

Gan Xing

you can also run Ysgramor set to provide extra damage from ice attacks

greylox

ADarklore wrote: »

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly. I use Ice Staff and simply did not put any points into "Tri-Focus" passive to avoid the 'taunt'... but I use both Elemental Blockade AND Winter's Revenge...
Frost bar is: Fetcher Infection, Elemental Blockade, Winter's Revenge, Pulsar and Deep Fissure.
Backbar Lightning staff is: Blue Betty, Lotus Blossom, Expansive Frost Cloak, Elemental Drain, and Enchanted Growth... I have Ultimate Eternal Guardian on both bars.

For World Boss fights I replace backbar Lightning Staff with Resto and go into Healer role with: Siphon Spirit, Combat Prayer, Expansive Frost Cloak, Corrupting Pollen and Enchanted Growth.

You've just made me want to make another ice mage. My ice sorc was fun for a while but made it a healer in the end for whatever reasons. I solo a lot and taunt is only a problem in group content so I could easily swap out the ice staff for a lightning one for that. I ended up making a stamina dd warden as my first and I'm very happy, but wanted my next to be a magicka dd build without going down the necropotence route. I'll probably run something similar but with different ultimates.

Docmandu

Linken wrote: »

Well if we jump min max aside and dont bother with it and really wanna play with frost dmg just dont specc into the tri staff focus passive and you wont be bothered by the taunt anyway simple solution to that problem.

I'm guessing this will still get you kicked from groups because people will still think you're a noob that is taunting.

VierulSquirrel

Nice! Keep the build ideas coming and let's try to bring the wardens magicka dps up to par with the other magicka classes.

method__01

ADarklore wrote: »

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly. I use Ice Staff and simply did not put any points into "Tri-Focus" passive to avoid the 'taunt'... but I use both Elemental Blockade AND Winter's Revenge...
Frost bar is: Fetcher Infection, Elemental Blockade, Winter's Revenge, Pulsar and Deep Fissure.
Backbar Lightning staff is: Blue Betty, Lotus Blossom, Expansive Frost Cloak, Elemental Drain, and Enchanted Growth... I have Ultimate Eternal Guardian on both bars.

For World Boss fights I replace backbar Lightning Staff with Resto and go into Healer role with: Siphon Spirit, Combat Prayer, Expansive Frost Cloak, Corrupting Pollen and Enchanted Growth.

plz tell us more about your build,i imagine you got a high elf warden with what gear?
thanks (we the cursed, must wait till June 6)

ADarklore

method__01 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly. I use Ice Staff and simply did not put any points into "Tri-Focus" passive to avoid the 'taunt'... but I use both Elemental Blockade AND Winter's Revenge...
Frost bar is: Fetcher Infection, Elemental Blockade, Winter's Revenge, Pulsar and Deep Fissure.
Backbar Lightning staff is: Blue Betty, Lotus Blossom, Expansive Frost Cloak, Elemental Drain, and Enchanted Growth... I have Ultimate Eternal Guardian on both bars.

For World Boss fights I replace backbar Lightning Staff with Resto and go into Healer role with: Siphon Spirit, Combat Prayer, Expansive Frost Cloak, Corrupting Pollen and Enchanted Growth.

plz tell us more about your build,i imagine you got a high elf warden with what gear?
thanks (we the cursed, must wait till June 6)

I knew I was forgetting something... I'm not quite to level 50 yet but already have my gear planned. Yes, High Elf and will be running 5pc Necropotence and 5pc Elegance along with 3x Cost Reduction glyphs. I should have more than enough Magicka to the point I'm considering running Tri-stat Purple food instead of Bi-state Blue food... giving me more sprint/dodge roll with the extra Stamina. Now keep in mind I don't do 'end game' content, but even now with my crafted 'training' gear Julianos/Magnus, I'm burning through everything I come across even in Public Dungeons.

People talk about how 'Lightning' gives better damage, but not by much when you consider Warden's get 6% damage to Frost it's only 2% less than Lightning staff gives for AoE. I had considered going Lightning, but considering Warden also gives 200% increased chance on Chilled status along with staff's additional 100% increased chance to status... it makes Chilling enemies occur frequently... AND we also get cost reduced for Blocking and increased damage absorption. So there are tons of reasons to use Frost staff with Warden- as long as you don't put points into Tri Focus to avoid the 'taunt'.

method__01

much appreciated ty

Jsmalls

They killed that option when they made most ice abilities scale with health

Xvorg

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

Dixa

Xvorg wrote: »

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

which is a massive dps loss single target not taking that passive

6% more frost/magic damage, trading 12% more single target fire damage and 108% aoe heavy attack lightning staff damage

doesn't seem worth it. the warden passive needs to be reworked

when you further consider that a fire staff increases all single target damage by 8% and a lightning staff increases all aoe dmg by 8% there is NO logical reason to not go fire+lightning unless you are tanking/off tanking.

Arbitrator

Or they could just make the taunt a passive under the Destruction staff skill line.

"Insert Icy Taunt name here" - Your heavy attacks with a frost staff taunt the target to attack you for 15 seconds... blah blah blah

All they have to do is make it so it doesn't require a skill point to gain the passive, you just activate the passive if you decide you want to be a tank.

Example:

0/2 Tri Focus
0/2 Penetrating Magic
0/2 Elemental Force
0/2 Ancient Knowledge
0/2 Destruction Expert
0/0 "Icy Stare" - your heavy attacks with a frost staff taunt the target for 15 seconds and grant you a damage shield.

ADarklore

Dixa wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

which is a massive dps loss single target not taking that passive

6% more frost/magic damage, trading 12% more single target fire damage and 108% aoe heavy attack lightning staff damage

doesn't seem worth it. the warden passive needs to be reworked

when you further consider that a fire staff increases all single target damage by 8% and a lightning staff increases all aoe dmg by 8% there is NO logical reason to not go fire+lightning unless you are tanking/off tanking.

But there IS a logical reason... the MAJORITY of us are not min/maxers who stress out about every tiny bit of %... most of us play the game to have FUN, and part of that fun includes making a build that we enjoy playing and works with our character concept. You do realize that it's a very small minority of players that are here for 'end game' content, right?

As I mentioned before, Warden receives 6% increase to Frost... that includes single target Frost and AoE Frost... oh but wait, with Inferno and Lightning, you have to revolve your loadouts around whether they are single target or AoE abilities.

VierulSquirrel

Well I am an end game content player and would like for the warden to be viable aka on par with the other classes and at the moment if you play into your PASSIVES you simply gimp yourself. This shouldn't be what happens when you play into your class. People say that the ice stave is a tanking weapon now which breaks my heart since it was originally and still is a "destruction staff". We all know that the developers had seen the other two Elements were being used the most and that they pulled more damage so they made the ice staff a sorry excuse and tried to hype it up. Rather than figuring out a way to buff ice. It's only use is in a small number of PvP groups, and leveling a character. It's passives don't work in trials which is fine. They just need to buff their ice based sets a bit. This would allow for an ice staff back bar with lighting front bar build. Which is how it should be. Same as how sorcs run inferno back and lightning front. It's different for templars and dk's since one uses dual wield while the other uses flame staves to play into their PASSIVES. They should also remove the taunt from tri focus because simply not putting points into it is a big dps loss. Just place it on elemental susceptibility and make it cost like 1.5 - 2.5k magicka. This will help the tanks to taunt and debuff faster, well as fast as a real sword and board tank can.

Xvorg

Dixa wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

which is a massive dps loss single target not taking that passive

6% more frost/magic damage, trading 12% more single target fire damage and 108% aoe heavy attack lightning staff damage

doesn't seem worth it. the warden passive needs to be reworked

when you further consider that a fire staff increases all single target damage by 8% and a lightning staff increases all aoe dmg by 8% there is NO logical reason to not go fire+lightning unless you are tanking/off tanking.

You don't have to use doble destro, just frost staff and resto or S/b

Xvorg

ADarklore wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

which is a massive dps loss single target not taking that passive

6% more frost/magic damage, trading 12% more single target fire damage and 108% aoe heavy attack lightning staff damage

doesn't seem worth it. the warden passive needs to be reworked

when you further consider that a fire staff increases all single target damage by 8% and a lightning staff increases all aoe dmg by 8% there is NO logical reason to not go fire+lightning unless you are tanking/off tanking.

But there IS a logical reason... the MAJORITY of us are not min/maxers who stress out about every tiny bit of %... most of us play the game to have FUN, and part of that fun includes making a build that we enjoy playing and works with our character concept. You do realize that it's a very small minority of players that are here for 'end game' content, right?

As I mentioned before, Warden receives 6% increase to Frost... that includes single target Frost and AoE Frost... oh but wait, with Inferno and Lightning, you have to revolve your loadouts around whether they are single target or AoE abilities.

Warden passive is similar to DK world in ruin, just different because that one works on flame/poison AoE skills, so if you want a strong blockade of elements you have to choose between flame or shock, but you can't have both

Didaco

ADarklore wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

HonestGabe wrote: »

Ice staff is non-viable for PvE at least as DPS as heavy attack will taunt with passive and you don't want that. It can be usable for tanking but you will get ragers, and possibly even vote kicked for using ice staff as DPS.

You can always avoid putting points into Tri Focus

which is a massive dps loss single target not taking that passive

6% more frost/magic damage, trading 12% more single target fire damage and 108% aoe heavy attack lightning staff damage

doesn't seem worth it. the warden passive needs to be reworked

when you further consider that a fire staff increases all single target damage by 8% and a lightning staff increases all aoe dmg by 8% there is NO logical reason to not go fire+lightning unless you are tanking/off tanking.

But there IS a logical reason... the MAJORITY of us are not min/maxers who stress out about every tiny bit of %... most of us play the game to have FUN, and part of that fun includes making a build that we enjoy playing and works with our character concept. You do realize that it's a very small minority of players that are here for 'end game' content, right?

As I mentioned before, Warden receives 6% increase to Frost... that includes single target Frost and AoE Frost... oh but wait, with Inferno and Lightning, you have to revolve your loadouts around whether they are single target or AoE abilities.

Not to mention that Fire and Lightning do not increase LA and HA damage respectively, so you can improve your weaving with frost staff and being a warden.

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Honestly, the moment they turned Ice into a tank element, they threw Wardens or any semblance of a ice mage under the bus.

They could have introduced the frost warden tree as both a tanking AND dps tree depending on morphs. But, they chose a niche designation for ice and now we have this.

That wasn't a good move imo.

Code2501

If you want to use heavy regen with Ice you can simply use resto on the back bar without taunting. In fact resto gets a bonus to regen for heavies.

Ashamray

ADarklore wrote: »

So many people here have so little imagination and cannot move beyond the 'meta' attitude they've been programmed with.

OP, depends on what content you want to run. My Ice Master Warden is awesome, fun, and kills things very quickly.

Strictly a solo PvE quester.

Okay

VierulSquirrel

Lol. Resto back bar? What content do you play? Trials? Or nah?

Xvorg

VierulSquirrel wrote: »

Lol. Resto back bar? What content do you play? Trials? Or nah?

in PvP is BiS