Regens and One Major Oversight/Imbalance

fritzOSU03

My apologies in advance if this comes off as a bit of a rant. Let's be honest, standing around doing heavy attacks because someone got it in their mind that we have unlimited resources makes for a boring game. In my opinion, the nerf to resource regeneration across the board was taken too far. I'm adjusting by standing around in trials and winding up heavy attacks with the hope that something doesn't come along and one-shot me or that my healers can purge whatever DoT I'm trying to survive.

So here's the point of the issue. My only real means of getting resources back, in the case of a magicka templar for example, is to use heavy staff attacks. Well, there's a problem with that. The problem is that I have no option other than to dual wield on my main bar in order to get my set bonuses. For whatever reason, ZOS saw fit to make these regen changes without either a) making two-handed weapons count as two set bonus items or b) making a heavy attack, regardless of item or type, recover both magicka AND stamina in proportion to your resource pools.

So what am I left to do? Should I drop 300 spell damage from Julianos or be able to recover resources? The question is rhetorical. I should be able to do both, just like my stamina counterparts via dual wield and Hundings. C'mon ZOS, when are you going to address this?

TheStealthDude

So because you can't use the exact same build you were using before in this patch, that means the changes were poorly thought out?

It just sounds like you need to consider changing your build.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

In b4 lock

fritzOSU03

TheStealthDude wrote: »

So because you can't use the exact same build you were using before in this patch, that means the changes were poorly thought out?

It just sounds like you need to consider changing your build.

I think you're missing the point so I'll clarify. The issue is that I shouldn't need to reconsider my build based on what 5-piece I also have to give up. Like everyone else, I've already given up my regens and adjusted. But now, unlike with my stamina characters, I also have to evaluate giving up a 5-piece bonus on my main damage bar. The same could be said for my healer or for any stamina build that uses bow or a two-handed weapon on their main bar (although I don't know of any for PvE).

TheStealthDude

fritzOSU03 wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

So because you can't use the exact same build you were using before in this patch, that means the changes were poorly thought out?

It just sounds like you need to consider changing your build.

I think you're missing the point so I'll clarify. The issue is that I shouldn't need to reconsider my build based on what 5-piece I also have to give up. Like everyone else, I've already given up my regens and adjusted. But now, unlike with my stamina characters, I also have to evaluate giving up a 5-piece bonus on my main damage bar. The same could be said for my healer or for any stamina build that uses bow or a two-handed weapon on their main bar (although I don't know of any for PvE).

No, I understand your point. You are using the changes from this patch to make a case for 2h weapons to count as 2 set bonuses. Try using sets that don't need to have the 5pc always active. Lich, BSW, Scathing Mage, Moondancer are some, commonly used ones.

Otherwise, try switching to a 5/5/1 build or a 5/3/2/1 build.

There are many solutions to the problem you face, but you seem to be stuck on trying to make your build work when it clearly doesn't.

You have to make choices in this game. There are going to be opportunity costs that you just have to accept.

STEVIL

You not wanting to have to choose is not the same as the changes having an oversight.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Just switch to red frothgar food.

Waffennacht

Symmetry

fritzOSU03

I'm obviously not getting the message through which is my fault for the way I chose to try and explain it. This issue has nothing to do with my specific builds or characters. I've adjusted accordingly. What I'm saying is that ZOS makes changes to things all the time under the pretense of "providing for more balanced gameplay" only to turn around and leave this particular imbalance in place. I've believed since well before this patch that items which occupy two slots should act as two slots, and in many ways they do, but this patch has widened that gap and further removed build diversity which is a very sad thing. Ultimately, there are two good ways to prevent this but neither has been utilized.

burglar

At first I was trying to encourage people to look for the positives in this update, that, these issues will create greater diversity and provide more value to the builds that really work well. Then as time went on, I read about more and more issues, and complaints which made me consider that maybe the update was really terrible. But, as I read different threads and complaints, a lot of them simply stem from people not wanting to adjust or make changes. It seems to me that this update is just changing the stuff that made the game unnecessarily easy; getting resources back from heavy attacks without connecting? Seems broken. I sort of feel relieved to have been playing a melee magicka nightblade, which has seemed pretty broken, and even though there won't be a fix... at least my struggles are already in place, and will remain the same! I think this update is more or less leveling the playing field to resource management as the developers said, which is a good thing!

So, yeah, problems will need to be approached differently, but I doubt anything is broken. Just needa adjust!

geonsocal

fritzOSU03 wrote: »

I'm obviously not getting the message through which is my fault for the way I chose to try and explain it.

story of my life

Hempyre

The OP is correct.

It was already poorly designed prior to the changes, in that magicka specs have to choose between a functional weapon enchant 2h setup -which is either a 5th pc bonus loss or monster set loss. Or a DW/S&B setup to gain the 5th bonus but no functional weapon enchant without melee action, which is useless for dps on a mag spec toon.

It's a total waste of time and dps loss.

With these changes the magplar has to swing in melee range to get some resources back but at a dps loss as we dont spec stam.

On top of that it's slow, boring, and *** stupid. It hasn't helped with the "evergen" pvp builds it's just made the game slower and more boring. I have to rotate in near useless 1k ish HA's or switch to a staff bar...

Keep in mind the magplar needs a fuller resource pool to make the best of our execute, unlike other classes.

I main a magplar for pvp and pve farm an HA pet sorc. Even with a full 75 into regen and in mag return I'm still seeing a significant decrease in resources on my sorc just from the 6/8 second casts of pet pulse and wall.

Im not sure what the devs were attempting to acomplish, but in my case they made playing the game less satisfying. I would have liked to see changes like:

Single skill/morph respec. Instead if every skill/morph every time...

Skills such as shields taking que precedence like block and bash do. So I don't have to ani cancel/bar swap/double slot shields in unforgiving content like VMA. Pushing the button three times and not having the skill go off is infuriating. (yes, I know this is an l2p issue - still a pissoff)

I can list a fair amount more that would enhance gameplay rather than make it less fun.

STEVIL

Hempyre wrote: »

The OP is correct.

It was already poorly designed prior to the changes, in that magicka specs have to choose between a functional weapon enchant 2h setup -which is either a 5th pc bonus loss or monster set loss. Or a DW/S&B setup to gain the 5th bonus but no functional weapon enchant without melee action, which is useless for dps on a mag spec toon.

It's a total waste of time and dps loss.

With these changes the magplar has to swing in melee range to get some resources back but at a dps loss as we dont spec stam.

On top of that it's slow, boring, and *** stupid. It hasn't helped with the "evergen" pvp builds it's just made the game slower and more boring. I have to rotate in near useless 1k ish HA's or switch to a staff bar...

Keep in mind the magplar needs a fuller resource pool to make the best of our execute, unlike other classes.

I main a magplar for pvp and pve farm an HA pet sorc. Even with a full 75 into regen and in mag return I'm still seeing a significant decrease in resources on my sorc just from the 6/8 second casts of pet pulse and wall.

Im not sure what the devs were attempting to acomplish, but in my case they made playing the game less satisfying.

RE the bold: that is just incorrect.

They just had to choose different sets to get the bonuses.

Run Warlock, Lich, Clever and a number of others where the 5pc bonus has a significant or "manageable in your rotation cooldown." One's that have 5pc bonuses that hit during ultimate firing for instance are great candidates. Run one of those staves on the backbar and your main offensive stat on the front bar.

Now you can have your 2pc monster set all the time, your 5pc front bar attack set all the time and the 2-3-4pc of your backbar set all the time.

When the backbar 5pc is ready, barswap and trigger it. then swap back (hopefully as part of your well run rotation with your back bar buffs etc.)

Do this right and the only time you "dont have the backbar 5pc" is when it is in cooldown. that is just like what you would have with these same sets on a DW build.

So while one can cry wolf (less diversity) it actually promotes you using on magica 11-slot builds different gear sets than one would use if it had 12 slots... the limitation promotes diversity.

Same kind of thing can be seen on 2h melee builds... witchman iirc is one... others exist. All depends on the rotation you can build around the cooldown or ult recover.

I know, it would be simpler to just have them all work the same so you can wear the same sets and call it diversity... but thats just not the way it works and likely not how its going to be made.

Hempyre

@STEVIL

I understand what you're saying. And yes if I wanted to use a set that had a cooldown option that works fine, and many folks do this, myself included when i swap gear. However While the bolded doesn't cover every option, it isn't incorrect, just incomplete.

Im not sure what the diversity refrence is implying. Personally, I think there may be backlash on allowing the 2pc weapon set enchant to function ranged. Or maybe in the case of melee, where they receive the enchant bonus regardless of 2h or DW this is the addition they receive for the risk of close range combat vs ranged.

Regardless, as per the OP, at least in the case of the magplar, it would be nice to see an equivilant bonus via set and/or enchant as we are now forced to melee specifically in PvE to return resources in a DW setup or only use 2h staves at range at a loss of set bonus/dps.

Mag based toons are at a disadvantage when forced to melee to return resources, and that is exactly what these changes are forcing mag toons with melee ranged skills, such as the magplar and DK, to have to do. Face tanking anything vet with a staff is a ridiculous concept. My point being that we were already lacking what other classes had and now it's more. Poor design...

As far as PvP is concerned, well, Bob's your uncle.

Just to reiterate for the TL;DR

I guess for me it doesn't feel like they gave me more options, rather less.

Doctordarkspawn

TheStealthDude wrote: »

fritzOSU03 wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

So because you can't use the exact same build you were using before in this patch, that means the changes were poorly thought out?

It just sounds like you need to consider changing your build.

I think you're missing the point so I'll clarify. The issue is that I shouldn't need to reconsider my build based on what 5-piece I also have to give up. Like everyone else, I've already given up my regens and adjusted. But now, unlike with my stamina characters, I also have to evaluate giving up a 5-piece bonus on my main damage bar. The same could be said for my healer or for any stamina build that uses bow or a two-handed weapon on their main bar (although I don't know of any for PvE).

No, I understand your point. You are using the changes from this patch to make a case for 2h weapons to count as 2 set bonuses. Try using sets that don't need to have the 5pc always active. Lich, BSW, Scathing Mage, Moondancer are some, commonly used ones.

Otherwise, try switching to a 5/5/1 build or a 5/3/2/1 build.

There are many solutions to the problem you face, but you seem to be stuck on trying to make your build work when it clearly doesn't.

You have to make choices in this game. There are going to be opportunity costs that you just have to accept.

Translation:

I understand your point, I just feel like telling you to git gud.

Tulach

I agree it is pretty absurd if you take a class like a Magicka DK that has most all of their class skills requiring melee range to complete to now use a 2hd ranged staff weapon to be able to regen magicka by weaving in Heavy attacks in melee range to gain back resources. If however you could use say Dual wield weapons to heavy attack with in melee range and it would restore your highest pool resource upon heavy attack you would make melee ranged magicka dps and tanks more viable again. As it stands now Magicka based tanks and dps are basically eliminated from being viable really.

Sure are there ways around this. Yes you can make a ranged character and go from there. But you then are tossing away skills like flame lash and burning embers which are core DK skills for destro ranged weapon skills. Talons is also a melee ranged skill.

smrasmusb14_ESO

Having an additional set item is a bonus that melee get (except of course for two handed which has a higher base damage than ranged instead). It's unfortunate that there are no magic melee weapons as this would resolve most complaints, but having enough regen to not need heavy attacks was a problem that needed to be fixed. The game was too easy.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The OP is correct.

It was already poorly designed prior to the changes, in that magicka specs have to choose between a functional weapon enchant 2h setup -which is either a 5th pc bonus loss or monster set loss. Or a DW/S&B setup to gain the 5th bonus but no functional weapon enchant without melee action, which is useless for dps on a mag spec toon.

It's a total waste of time and dps loss.

With these changes the magplar has to swing in melee range to get some resources back but at a dps loss as we dont spec stam.

On top of that it's slow, boring, and *** stupid. It hasn't helped with the "evergen" pvp builds it's just made the game slower and more boring. I have to rotate in near useless 1k ish HA's or switch to a staff bar...

Keep in mind the magplar needs a fuller resource pool to make the best of our execute, unlike other classes.

I main a magplar for pvp and pve farm an HA pet sorc. Even with a full 75 into regen and in mag return I'm still seeing a significant decrease in resources on my sorc just from the 6/8 second casts of pet pulse and wall.

Im not sure what the devs were attempting to acomplish, but in my case they made playing the game less satisfying.

RE the bold: that is just incorrect.

They just had to choose different sets to get the bonuses.

Run Warlock, Lich, Clever and a number of others where the 5pc bonus has a significant or "manageable in your rotation cooldown." One's that have 5pc bonuses that hit during ultimate firing for instance are great candidates. Run one of those staves on the backbar and your main offensive stat on the front bar.

Now you can have your 2pc monster set all the time, your 5pc front bar attack set all the time and the 2-3-4pc of your backbar set all the time.

When the backbar 5pc is ready, barswap and trigger it. then swap back (hopefully as part of your well run rotation with your back bar buffs etc.)

Do this right and the only time you "dont have the backbar 5pc" is when it is in cooldown. that is just like what you would have with these same sets on a DW build.

So while one can cry wolf (less diversity) it actually promotes you using on magica 11-slot builds different gear sets than one would use if it had 12 slots... the limitation promotes diversity.

Same kind of thing can be seen on 2h melee builds... witchman iirc is one... others exist. All depends on the rotation you can build around the cooldown or ult recover.

I know, it would be simpler to just have them all work the same so you can wear the same sets and call it diversity... but thats just not the way it works and likely not how its going to be made.

I wish I could this 2 awesomes. Stop complaining and work out how to do what you want, limitations breed creativity.

Andele

"limitations breed creativity" - only if the limitation does not come with a massive power gap, the two-handers higher item damage value is not relevant because it has a weaker heavy attack multiplier to ranged weapons, lower both lower net weapon damage and total damage than DW due to having 2 passives which dont come into play (followup is half of a empower, battle rush comes into effect when you already won the fight) and light attack speed is bugged thus leaving the optimal strat for it la AniCancel which DW also does better for melee due to having the benefit of 2 full powered enchant procs and a weapon set bonus.

(oh and S&B gets both full glyph, half trait for sharpened/def/crit/heal or full trait for rest, while also getting a full armor glyph and trait)

The idea of "build limits" isnt bad (especially for magicka due to lich/5th slot long cd triggers), but since so many sets have a permanent 5th slot bonus which drops on swap and the 2hs only benefit is slightly higher base light attack damage when low level/low on skill points (and possibly stamina sustain in 2-4 target aoe due to forceful compared to Steel Tornado) that plain does not hold true in practice.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Andele wrote: »

"limitations breed creativity" - only if the limitation does not come with a massive power gap, the two-handers higher item damage value is not relevant because it has a weaker heavy attack multiplier to ranged weapons, lower both lower net weapon damage and total damage than DW due to having 2 passives which dont come into play (followup is half of a empower, battle rush comes into effect when you already won the fight) and light attack speed is bugged thus leaving the optimal strat for it la AniCancel which DW also does better for melee due to having the benefit of 2 full powered enchant procs and a weapon set bonus.

(oh and S&B gets both full glyph, half trait for sharpened/def/crit/heal or full trait for rest, while also getting a full armor glyph and trait)

The idea of "build limits" isnt bad (especially for magicka due to lich/5th slot long cd triggers), but since so many sets have a permanent 5th slot bonus which drops on swap and the 2hs only benefit is slightly higher base light attack damage when low level/low on skill points (and possibly stamina sustain in 2-4 target aoe due to forceful compared to Steel Tornado) that plain does not hold true in practice.

Okay, show me that you can complete all the content in the game without 5/5/2. You are literally complaining about something that is around 5-10% difference, not nearly the "massive power gap" you are making it out to be.. Now of course for the hardcore vet trial players, this matters and for this type of player, they will not care about what you are complaining about, they just care about what is optimal.


If anything you ought to be complaining about how magic based builds have more sustain, more survaibltiy, more DPS at a range then any Stam build, even though most of them are using 5/4(1)/2.

STEVIL

"Now of course for the hardcore vet trial players, this matters and for this type of player, they will not care about what you are complaining about, they just care about what is optimal."

More over, at that level of content maelstrom are more likely needed and ignore this concept.

Also, if one thinks set bonus alone will change the differences enough to get 2h up to dw in that content, they are at best uninformed. Dw is better at what is needed there for that content - sustain dps - while 2h is more burst dps. That is from the skills, not set choices.

Qbiken

Yes the Changes was overkill (they should´ve just Went with the nerfs to championpoints IMO and left the rest untouched). But there´re way´s to do stuff without changing your build to much. Take magicka DK as an example.

With morrowind I thougth magdk would be dead (due to the huge cost on their skills and difficulties to sustain even in pre-Morrowind). Did some research and found out that there was like 2-3 things I needed to change:

* Farm the Sun-set (cost me a lot of gold to get those wax to upgrade xD)
* Use the Flame Lash (Life-steal morph): Probably the biggest change to sustain. It procs when an enemy is set of balance, and when it procs you use a skill called "Power lash" which cost 0 magicka, heals you, and does damage. So as long as you have a few people running shockwall you´re good to go as magdk. Was so happy when I saw one of @swaggasm videos playing magdk in vMoL (Morrowind) with almost the same build as pre-Morrowind. Gave my magdk hope.
* Or you can use a lightningstaff Heavy attack build and still do decent dmg (getting 24k on dummy atm, still need to practice my rotation)

Sharee

fritzOSU03 wrote: »

So here's the point of the issue. My only real means of getting resources back, in the case of a magicka templar for example, is to use heavy staff attacks. Well, there's a problem with that. The problem is that I have no option other than to dual wield on my main bar in order to get my set bonuses. For whatever reason, ZOS saw fit to make these regen changes without either a) making two-handed weapons count as two set bonus items or b) making a heavy attack, regardless of item or type, recover both magicka AND stamina in proportion to your resource pools.

So what am I left to do? Should I drop 300 spell damage from Julianos or be able to recover resources?

How about switching to your second bar(with a staff) whenever you need to heavy attack for resources? You don't really need the 300 spell damage while doing resto heavy attacks, the point is just to get magicka back, and once you do, you'll switch back to the DW bar anyway.

Andele

STEVIL wrote: »

"
Also, if one thinks set bonus alone will change the differences enough to get 2h up to dw in that content, they are at best uninformed.

150 weapon/spell damage and regen on hit/1 pools 8% cost reduction with flat resource regen on kill, general 6% cost reduction, proc chances for 4~15k damage, 400 of a damage type bonus, effects on reaction (shield on block/heroism dodge/immob on dodge/knockdown on dodge/bonus damage on interrupt, etc) - All of these things change how a person plays which is the important part in the whole quoted limitations on build thing YET ALL set only on 5th slot bonus (instead of 3rd or 4th)

Also nice way to ignore the point of 2h melee not having the range safety nor the net stats of other melee weapons (not that staves shouldnt get 2-set effects either because it would be stupid if 2 slot items dont gain benefits of having 2 slots filled by a set).

STEVIL

Andele wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

"
Also, if one thinks set bonus alone will change the differences enough to get 2h up to dw in that content, they are at best uninformed.

150 weapon/spell damage and regen on hit/1 pools 8% cost reduction with flat resource regen on kill, general 6% cost reduction, proc chances for 4~15k damage, 400 of a damage type bonus, effects on reaction (shield on block/heroism dodge/immob on dodge/knockdown on dodge/bonus damage on interrupt, etc) - All of these things change how a person plays which is the important part in the whole quoted limitations on build thing YET ALL set only on 5th slot bonus (instead of 3rd or 4th)

Also nice way to ignore the point of 2h melee not having the range safety nor the net stats of other melee weapons (not that staves shouldnt get 2-set effects either because it would be stupid if 2 slot items dont gain benefits of having 2 slots filled by a set).

How much do you need to re-construe things to get tio a point?

Again, the statement you quoted was in response to "hardcore vet trial" type comment specifically and vs dw... not to a broad reaching "style of play" theme of 5pc bonus.


As for the italics part... correct me if i am wrong but the changes being suggested are the set count changes - well, DW does not have range and has 12 (so does sword and shield) so... seems the 12 vs 11 slots is not so much a range issue as you might be trying to shoe horn in for any possible support it can give you.

There have been much better threads with much more coherent arguments for making this change than this one. Even tho they too failed to make a solid case, you should perhaps research them.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

"Now of course for the hardcore vet trial players, this matters and for this type of player, they will not care about what you are complaining about, they just care about what is optimal."

More over, at that level of content maelstrom are more likely needed and ignore this concept.

Also, if one thinks set bonus alone will change the differences enough to get 2h up to dw in that content, they are at best uninformed. Dw is better at what is needed there for that content - sustain dps - while 2h is more burst dps. That is from the skills, not set choices.

This is 100% the truth, there is no set bonuses that will make uppercut as good as flurry or cleave as good as steel tornado. It is skills not set bonuses that define the gap.

theamazingx

Heavy attack on your backbar. Wew.

Hempyre

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

The OP is correct.

It was already poorly designed prior to the changes, in that magicka specs have to choose between a functional weapon enchant 2h setup -which is either a 5th pc bonus loss or monster set loss. Or a DW/S&B setup to gain the 5th bonus but no functional weapon enchant without melee action, which is useless for dps on a mag spec toon.

It's a total waste of time and dps loss.

With these changes the magplar has to swing in melee range to get some resources back but at a dps loss as we dont spec stam.

On top of that it's slow, boring, and *** stupid. It hasn't helped with the "evergen" pvp builds it's just made the game slower and more boring. I have to rotate in near useless 1k ish HA's or switch to a staff bar...

Keep in mind the magplar needs a fuller resource pool to make the best of our execute, unlike other classes.

I main a magplar for pvp and pve farm an HA pet sorc. Even with a full 75 into regen and in mag return I'm still seeing a significant decrease in resources on my sorc just from the 6/8 second casts of pet pulse and wall.

Im not sure what the devs were attempting to acomplish, but in my case they made playing the game less satisfying.

RE the bold: that is just incorrect.

They just had to choose different sets to get the bonuses.

Run Warlock, Lich, Clever and a number of others where the 5pc bonus has a significant or "manageable in your rotation cooldown." One's that have 5pc bonuses that hit during ultimate firing for instance are great candidates. Run one of those staves on the backbar and your main offensive stat on the front bar.

Now you can have your 2pc monster set all the time, your 5pc front bar attack set all the time and the 2-3-4pc of your backbar set all the time.

When the backbar 5pc is ready, barswap and trigger it. then swap back (hopefully as part of your well run rotation with your back bar buffs etc.)

Do this right and the only time you "dont have the backbar 5pc" is when it is in cooldown. that is just like what you would have with these same sets on a DW build.

So while one can cry wolf (less diversity) it actually promotes you using on magica 11-slot builds different gear sets than one would use if it had 12 slots... the limitation promotes diversity.

Same kind of thing can be seen on 2h melee builds... witchman iirc is one... others exist. All depends on the rotation you can build around the cooldown or ult recover.

I know, it would be simpler to just have them all work the same so you can wear the same sets and call it diversity... but thats just not the way it works and likely not how its going to be made.

I wish I could this 2 awesomes. Stop complaining and work out how to do what you want, limitations breed creativity.

I had to lol at this. Wtf are you even talking about?

Nothing has changed in PvP at all... Nothing. The "ever live" builds are still doing the same thing, still the same faces, still the same issues. We all got the same nerf.

As far as PvE, all this has done is made it more boring... There's no reference to "working out what you want to do" that's the complaint.

The OP is doing PvE content, there was no discussion about struggling with builds. (I commented on a deficit in gear equality for melee ranged mag toons, not build struggles.) I've got plenty of sets and change them up as needed.

As for PvE there is only Zuul, er... I mean BiS or sub BiS. Most of the CP changes were to narrow the gap for low CP players by front loading the CP tree -which i think was a good idea-. The CP regen nerf however, makes low end PvE slower and more boring -not more challenging- and makes high end PvE content more difficult and less accessable to mid range players, again, read not more challenging, not more fun, just slower and more difficult. Sounds like it had the opposite effect as intended...

Sit down son, till you understand the discussion.

smrasmusb14_ESO wrote: »

Having an additional set item is a bonus that melee get (except of course for two handed which has a higher base damage than ranged instead). It's unfortunate that there are no magic melee weapons as this would resolve most complaints, but having enough regen to not need heavy attacks was a problem that needed to be fixed. The game was too easy.

Really? Why? You consider forcibly slowing down the rate of combat a fix? Standing around doing more HA sounds like more fun? Hmm. Again, this has no impact on PvP. Burst builds are still bursty, gankers still gank and disengage, unkillables are still just as unkillable...

When I run out of resources in PvP I mist away, or pot, or do whatever it was I was doing before. The choices are still exactly the same, build for burst, build for gank, build for sustain. Etc...

Do you do top tier content? Have you completed VMA? How many players that just barely made it before are no longer going to be able to finish it? Not everyone is a 1%'r

There were so many other things that could have been fixed to improve game play.

How about fixing the that pesky sometimes hang, sometimes not, on ground attacks? Or just making sure they actually go off when I bar swap, like other skills. There is no consistency on cast times or cooldowns in similar skills within a class, or across them.

How about fixing the crappy pet AI? (oh, wait, they did. They made them dumber.)

How about fixing skills que prioritization so that skills go off when you actually hit the button?

Or just balancing the same set skills. Why on my DK when I hit talons does it feel like it's going off almost before I hit the button, but the Warden root has a huge animation delay? Where's the consistency?

Why do all the gap closers work differently? (Or not work, as the case tends to be.)
Why does the DK chains break at the slightest terrain wrinkle, but the Templar can close through the air to the top of a rock, or ledge?

There's way more that could and should have been done.

Arbitrator

Tulach wrote: »

I agree it is pretty absurd if you take a class like a Magicka DK that has most all of their class skills requiring melee range to complete to now use a 2hd ranged staff weapon to be able to regen magicka by weaving in Heavy attacks in melee range to gain back resources. If however you could use say Dual wield weapons to heavy attack with in melee range and it would restore your highest pool resource upon heavy attack you would make melee ranged magicka dps and tanks more viable again. As it stands now Magicka based tanks and dps are basically eliminated from being viable really.

Sure are there ways around this. Yes you can make a ranged character and go from there. But you then are tossing away skills like flame lash and burning embers which are core DK skills for destro ranged weapon skills. Talons is also a melee ranged skill.

This 100%. It makes no sense for a dk to have a staff considering most all of their moves are in Melee range.

All they had to do was make it so your heavy attacks restore your "highest" resource pool between magicka/stamina.

The way it is now has bent tanks and magicka dps over a barrel. Even for some Templar "Cleric" healers who utilize a mace/shield combo... It's crazy how they really believe that what they are doing is balanced or fun at all.

Kikke

Arbitrator wrote: »

This 100%. It makes no sense for a dk to have a staff considering most all of their moves are in Melee range.

All they had to do was make it so your heavy attacks restore your "highest" resource pool between magicka/stamina.

The way it is now has bent tanks and magicka dps over a barrel. Even for some Templar "Cleric" healers who utilize a mace/shield combo... It's crazy how they really believe that what they are doing is balanced or fun at all.

mDK = buffs fire dmg and all fire dmg
staff = fire dmg

something I'm missing? Why would you use DW when your dot increases the dmg of you're weave?

Tasear

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337338/guide-how-to-sustain-come-morrowind#latest

there you go