This is not an expansion. Zos greed is killing this game.

Balamoor

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

And you know I have seen some well thought out logical criticisms, the problem is out of 1000 outraged thespian post, maybe two are well written valid criticisms, the rest are just unhinged rants calling the developers crooks and yelling the sky is falling at the top of their lungs.

Like all the Fake news Templar outrage
Crown Crate sales etc etc

I like reading well thought out post that can actually improve the game, but if you notice people are getting called white knight and told to shut up because the usual suspects are feeling like their right to troll is being infringed upon, not because of real issues with Queues, lag, and persistent hardware specific bugs.

It's a lot like real world politics.... yell a name often enough at someone and hope it's sticks.
Bottom line, no one really takes the forums seriously.

idk

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

Exactly. Very true. The reality about this complain about the expansion pack is many like to complain. I think a big part of that is the B2P/sub model.

The reality about the expansion is it has something for everyone. PvP (will be better once queues work better) trial, new class with interesting skill sets and of course the zone and quests.

Malic

Quick question as this thread has some of the sharpest intellectual minds we have here in ESO.

If I can download Morrowind does that make it downloadable content?

Please educate me.

Thanks !

Drachenfier

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

Oversimplifying it. Not worth any more of a response.

It really isn't. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No matter what your thoughts are on the matter, the fact remains that the cost of MMO's - expansions and DLC's included - are the most cost efficient form of entertainment available. The amount of tears shed over this is ludicrous.

BurningLobster

To put a simple measure on it;

With the new class and the "expansion" price tag, I expected enough content to create a new character and reach level 50 without ever needing to set foot on the old world or repeat content I had already done.

$60 gets you enough content for that three times over, 10 races and 4 classes. I expect something akin to that when I am paying prices akin to that.


You done goofed, ZOS. I'm gonna be dropping my sub when it runs out, but I wanted you to know why. If you ever manage to add in some more content, I'll be back to poke around, as I still do like what the game can be, at times... but more and more it's on me to find those moments, rather than having the Devs make them for me.

Thanks for all the fun, and I do mean that. It has been an adventure, I'll give you that much.

ShedsHisTail

Sometimes I wish our forum avatars had some means of designation for folks with active subscriptions and those without.

That way I could see how many people complaining are actually paying for the content they're upset about and I'd know which opinions to disregard entirely.

ShedsHisTail

Malic wrote: »

Quick question as this thread has some of the sharpest intellectual minds we have here in ESO.

If I can download Morrowind does that make it downloadable content?

Please educate me.

Thanks !

Yes. Just like the base game and 90% of all media released in the last ten years.

Balamoor

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Sometimes I wish our forum avatars had some means of designation for folks with active subscriptions and those without.

That way I could see how many people complaining are actually paying for the content they're upset about and I'd know which opinions to disregard entirely.

What would be better I think, is if ZoS would take a page from Square Enix in FFXI and FFXIV.

On those forums you have to be level 25 and a subscriber, and you have to have a minimum number of hours logged into the game weekly, also if you get suspended or banned from the forums it's a in game ban/suspension.

The results are very polite, constructive forums that actually provides SE with valid metrics, which makes them worth the cost of maintaining them.

klowdy1

I guess I missed the part where the devs said they wouldn't be adding anything to the game later on, like another trial, or an island off the coast of Morrowind, or more BGs. This is the first ESO expansion, correct? So we don't know what they plan to do later. the problem isn't a lack of content, but the lack of control one exhibits when blowing through all the quests, not listening to voice acting, just trying to get the island cleared.

Stormahawk wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Name me another MMO that doesn't do it this way?

Even the WoW expansions were typically maybe a new class (every other one) or a new race (again every other one). Then maybe one raid and a couple new dungeons and battleground maybe at the launch of the expansion and their Expansions are 60$ not 40$.

I'm sure though so it was Blizzard it was perfectly acceptable and not greedy at all.

WoW expansions typically added several raids (introduced over time) and a whole continent with multiple zones. They also provided a FREE character slot whenever a class was added in an expansion, something ZOS failed to do with the warden release. WoW also handed out dozens of pets and mounts in expansions as drops or achievements or a reward for attaining a certain reputation level with an NPC faction (which once again ZOS doesn't do this, gotta use the cash shop). Overall, WoW expansions are a much better value with tons of content, and are the reason why WoW has been around for so long.

We got quite a bit of good stuff with this expansion, that I imagine took some time to create. With a new class, a huge new zone, BGs, the new style, horse, and pet for those that bought that version, along with a new outfit, and a second pet for the base upgrade, I would have to say you aren't looking at both games in the same light. Also, WoW has a cash shop for pets and mounts.

Hvzeda

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:

• 11 new areas
• 10 dungeons
• 2 New Battlegrounds
• various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"

• 1 New Area
• 6 Delves
• 2 Public dungeons
• 1 Trial
• New Class.
• Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

Go play WoW, then?

"Betraying," lol. The entitlement is real.

I have never seen a more pathetic retort in my life. I was comparing the value of expansions across two popular MMOs. The only thing you could think to say is "go play wow" and "entitled"?

Yes, as a consumer I am entitled to value for my money. I saw very limited value in moronwind, so I did not purchase it. There is value however in taking a argumentation and debate class, and being actually able to address someone's arguments instead of resorting to insults so I suggest you take one and put some more effort into your interactions with other humans.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

Your comparison is bunk.

WoW releases nothing substantial for 2 years and then puts out a big release. WoW is pay to play.

ESO is buy to play. ZOS has delivered Craglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadows of the Hist, and Homestead since release ... which are all included for the same price everyone pays for WoW. That's 4 raids, 4 dungeons, 5 zones, 2 arenas, poison crafting, new PvP modes, housing, etc. etc. etc. that were delivered for the cost of the game + $15 per month.

The comparison of Morrowind to a WoW expansion just doesn't make sense. Blizzard doesn't deliver quarterly DLC for your $15 monthly subscription. ZOS does.

Your comparison is bunk also.

A fair comparison would be comparing WoW in its first three years to ESO first three years. You are cherry picking what WoW is doing in its twilight of its career to ESO at the beginning.

Hvzeda

Wayshuba wrote: »

I came from SWTOR. You have no idea what no content is until you go there.

They haven't had a raid released in over two years. Now they are releasing a boss for a new raid every 4 months (which means 20 months for ONE raid). So by the time they are done, it will have been almost 4 years without a raid. That is called taking your customers to the cleaners.

Sorry, but ZOS is putting out quite a bit of content compared to many MMOs. Do they top all MMOs, no. But they are ahead of quite a few on the market.

I guess I am simple to please. Pay them for the game and keep putting out regular content and I am a happy dude.

A fair comparison would be comparing SWTOR in its first three years to ESO in it first three years.

Kneighbors

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

It's so cool that you can afford 40$, it's really worth of brawling on the internet. But the problem is this "expansion" is not worthy of 40$. This is almost a price of AAA game. That is the most important point here, not your cool income and wealthy life.

ShedsHisTail

klowdy1 wrote: »

This is the first ESO expansion, correct? So we don't know what they plan to do later.

What's interesting to me is that rather than "Expansion" they refer to Morrowind as a "Chapter" which, to me, signifies that they intend to make it the next phase of the ESO story.

I suspect one or more future DLCs (at least until the next "Chapter") will take place directly on the island of Vvardenfell and require the Morrowind "expansion" be purchased in order to play (which will absolutely infuriate the people who refuse to spend money), and that as a whole, with the upcoming DLCs included, Morrowind will look a lot more like a traditional "Expansion." It's just being rolled out in phases and DLC.

Why is Red Mountain inaccessible, why release a whole new zone with 30% of it blocked off? Why all the closed off ruins? Who's to say there aren't plans to open all of that? A Red Mountain DLC? A Ruins of Morrowind DLC? A Solsthiem DLC? I'm not super far into the new story so I can't speculate too much, but it seems reasonable to me.

Morrowind is the next "chapter" in ESO, but I suspect that what we've seen so far is but the first page in that chapter.

Rainwhisper

Paying for an expansion in an MMO isn't purely transactional. There's no formula for "X dollars = Y hours of content." Not only are you paying for the development of the additional content, you're paying for the ongoing infrastructure needs to support the longevity of the game.

I do think, as expansions go, the amount of content in Morrowind seems a little light, but I'm not surprised since it's possible for people to play ESO without having to pay a monthly subscription, therefore getting access to all of the (expensive) infrastructure necessary to sustain an MMO without having to pay for it.

From my perspective, ZOS is providing a stable, content-rich, massive virtual world where I can interact with dozens of friends and thousands of other players, and they are charging reasonable fees to do so. I'm happy to pay the cost of a decent meal out once a year for an expansion, and the cost of one lunch a month to support their work.

wahoozie

I'd suggest stop paying for things before they release, and even a while after. I haven't bought anything in this game that wasn't discount price as nothing has enough content I'm actually interested in to justify paying its release price. Dark brotherhood sounded neat, but has nothing I care for so I never intend to buy it. Battle grounds and a new trial sound cool as well, but not $40 cool. With how broken BG's sound, seems I'll wait quite a while for some fixes and a discount, but that's cool with me. Find what you value in the game, then research what comes with dlc/expansions and then determine its value, ultimately if you buy it or not. Personally one playthrough of the main quest was enough story/questing for me.

rotaugen454

Rikkof wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

adults dont play vidoe games

I'm over 50, and I disagree.

LiquidPony

Malic wrote: »

Quick question as this thread has some of the sharpest intellectual minds we have here in ESO.

If I can download Morrowind does that make it downloadable content?

Please educate me.

Thanks !

@Malic

Let me answer that question with another question:

If I can download the base game, does that make the base game ... downloadable content?

So shouldn't the base game be included with my ESO+ subscription, then?

LiquidPony

Hvzeda wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

Your comparison is bunk.

WoW releases nothing substantial for 2 years and then puts out a big release. WoW is pay to play.

ESO is buy to play. ZOS has delivered Craglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadows of the Hist, and Homestead since release ... which are all included for the same price everyone pays for WoW. That's 4 raids, 4 dungeons, 5 zones, 2 arenas, poison crafting, new PvP modes, housing, etc. etc. etc. that were delivered for the cost of the game + $15 per month.

The comparison of Morrowind to a WoW expansion just doesn't make sense. Blizzard doesn't deliver quarterly DLC for your $15 monthly subscription. ZOS does.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jtj87 wrote: »

I love this game and have supported it for awhile but where is the content? It's basically orsinium with a new trial and battlegrounds. We need more dungeons, more variety of things to do and there is only 2 public dungeons in the new area? I mean the story in morrowind is nice but when that's over what next? Run the same dungeons over and over and try a new trial? I can't help the feeling of being ripped off. I am sure there is content that should have been included with morrowind that will be scretched out along the rest of 2017 and then we will get the same thing in 2018. If you want to justify charging 40 or 60 bucks for a "Chapter" and call it an expansion then add an entire new continent just for end game so veterans have something to do. Stop adding these areas with barely anything to do in them once the story is over.

So ... it's bigger than the biggest DLC (+ new Trial, + Battlegrounds, + new class) ... but it's not big enough to be an "expansion?"

I wonder where the line is.

So glad you asked!

WOW's first Expansion included:

• 11 new areas
• 10 dungeons
• 2 New Battlegrounds
• various updates including Jewelry Crafting

ESO's "DLC+"

• 1 New Area
• 6 Delves
• 2 Public dungeons
• 1 Trial
• New Class.
• Battlegrounds

So by DLC standards, ZOS did pretty well. This would have been accepted by the community as an amazing DLC. But the marketing department had to ruin it by betraying subscribers and trying to pretend this was an expansion. With this not so smooth move, ZOS lost a lot of goodwill all for a few extra bucks that people would have eventually spent anyway.

Go play WoW, then?

"Betraying," lol. The entitlement is real.

I have never seen a more pathetic retort in my life. I was comparing the value of expansions across two popular MMOs. The only thing you could think to say is "go play wow" and "entitled"?

Yes, as a consumer I am entitled to value for my money. I saw very limited value in moronwind, so I did not purchase it. There is value however in taking a argumentation and debate class, and being actually able to address someone's arguments instead of resorting to insults so I suggest you take one and put some more effort into your interactions with other humans.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

Your comparison is bunk.

WoW releases nothing substantial for 2 years and then puts out a big release. WoW is pay to play.

ESO is buy to play. ZOS has delivered Craglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadows of the Hist, and Homestead since release ... which are all included for the same price everyone pays for WoW. That's 4 raids, 4 dungeons, 5 zones, 2 arenas, poison crafting, new PvP modes, housing, etc. etc. etc. that were delivered for the cost of the game + $15 per month.

The comparison of Morrowind to a WoW expansion just doesn't make sense. Blizzard doesn't deliver quarterly DLC for your $15 monthly subscription. ZOS does.

Your comparison is bunk also.

A fair comparison would be comparing WoW in its first three years to ESO first three years. You are cherry picking what WoW is doing in its twilight of its career to ESO at the beginning.

If I recall correctly it was just about 24 months between the WoW release and the release of Burning Crusade. Not sure what I'm missing. WoW added some other things in the meantime, but ESO has also added and tweaked many things with each patch that are not paid DLC (e.g., Craglorn, One Tamriel, Homestead).

Also, if we want to be pedantic about it, we're over a decade down the road and ESO pricing is pretty much exactly the same as WoW pricing. In what other industry have prices remained static?

Galwylin

Drachenfier wrote: »

It really isn't. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No matter what your thoughts are on the matter, the fact remains that the cost of MMO's - expansions and DLC's included - are the most cost efficient form of entertainment available. The amount of tears shed over this is ludicrous.

I agree with you. About the MMOs. I don't let it bother me as much as some people if someone is critical. Its always been if this game is wanting to position itself like any other game then why is it so expensive in comparison. People bring up WoW since its the standard. Much as I dislike it, what it does, it does fairly well for the most part. But there doesn't seem to be any counter to the idea that the $40+ you spend here goes further in almost any other game. Well, except the complaining about people complaining. That's has been as good an argument ender as because I said so.

And you have got to love the logic of some posters. They didn't say they wouldn't do something later means don't criticize them for not providing value for money spent today. They won't even add a house to Orsinium and we're supposed to believe they will be adding more dungeons and trials to Morrowind... for the $40+ we already paid for free? Nah. As history has taught us, its that anything new added will be expected to be purchased. We got what we've bought so far. It would be nice if that would happen from now on but it would be a change to how they've been doing business. I for one would love to have the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood expanded upon. Will I get it? Maybe if I pay extra. And really extra since for them its done and done.

I am as guilty as anyone but if we keep throwing money at them in the hopes of better from them, we're just going to be poorer. That will be the only result. When a developer says they hear us, I'd like for them to actually hear. Not just glance over something and dismiss it because it goes against their own perceived ideas of how things should be. Really hear. So far, they don't really hear us.

Absolut_Turkey

Rikkof wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

adults dont play vidoe games

*facepalm*

Keep telling yourself that kid. BTW, not only do I sub, but I'm MORE then happy to pay for the Morrowind CHAPTER. I have something called "disposable income". It's what happens when you have a job and don't spend all your free time trolling forums. BTW...you do know there are other mmos out there right?

Malic

LiquidPony wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Quick question as this thread has some of the sharpest intellectual minds we have here in ESO.

If I can download Morrowind does that make it downloadable content?

Please educate me.

Thanks !

@Malic

Let me answer that question with another question:

If I can download the base game, does that make the base game ... downloadable content?

So shouldn't the base game be included with my ESO+ subscription, then?

Answer 1: Yes its downloadable

Answer 2: No, because the base game is a required purchase to obtain future downloadable content here after, per the agreement.

ShedsHisTail

wahoozie wrote: »

With how broken BG's sound, seems I'll wait quite a while for some fixes and a discount, but that's cool with me.

Pro Tip: You will never hear of any PvP feature described as "great," "good," or even "functional" by the player base. PvP is perpetually broken, as far as the forums are concerned. :P

Drachenfier

Kneighbors wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

It's so cool that you can afford 40$, it's really worth of brawling on the internet. But the problem is this "expansion" is not worthy of 40$. This is almost a price of AAA game. That is the most important point here, not your cool income and wealthy life.

Worth is subjective. The point is that you can choose not to buy it. All of this crying is pointless, and makes a lot of people look entitled.

gediv2

Selling this dlc as an expansion is Bait and switch. Unethical, and illegal in some jurisdictions. I'm sure they vetted the scam with their legal department and adding the Battlegrounds was likely their way circumventing legal liability. This is typical large corporation behavior. It garners no consumer loyalty and the corporation doesn't care because there is a presumed life span of the product and as long as the projected numbers are good....

Or maybe I'm just cynical?

The palace looks cool though.

Xariz

BurningLobster wrote: »

To put a simple measure on it;

With the new class and the "expansion" price tag, I expected enough content to create a new character and reach level 50 without ever needing to set foot on the old world or repeat content I had already done.

$60 gets you enough content for that three times over, 10 races and 4 classes. I expect something akin to that when I am paying prices akin to that.


You done goofed, ZOS. I'm gonna be dropping my sub when it runs out, but I wanted you to know why. If you ever manage to add in some more content, I'll be back to poke around, as I still do like what the game can be, at times... but more and more it's on me to find those moments, rather than having the Devs make them for me.

Thanks for all the fun, and I do mean that. It has been an adventure, I'll give you that much.

Are you knew to mmos? I ask simply because the two major ones out there, FFXIV and WoW, neither release an expansion where you can start a new character and level from 1 to cap in the new zones. Most generally, it's you level from previous cap to new cap.

At least with ESO you could actually level from 1-50 just on the new zones if you really wanted to. They even created a new tutorial leading you directly into that zone. I wish they added a couple new dungeons but between the delves world bosses trial and public dungeons plus the addition with battlegrounds. I think it's a fair price to content ratio.

Absolut_Turkey

Xariz wrote: »

BurningLobster wrote: »

To put a simple measure on it;

With the new class and the "expansion" price tag, I expected enough content to create a new character and reach level 50 without ever needing to set foot on the old world or repeat content I had already done.

$60 gets you enough content for that three times over, 10 races and 4 classes. I expect something akin to that when I am paying prices akin to that.


You done goofed, ZOS. I'm gonna be dropping my sub when it runs out, but I wanted you to know why. If you ever manage to add in some more content, I'll be back to poke around, as I still do like what the game can be, at times... but more and more it's on me to find those moments, rather than having the Devs make them for me.

Thanks for all the fun, and I do mean that. It has been an adventure, I'll give you that much.

Are you knew to mmos? I ask simply because the two major ones out there, FFXIV and WoW, neither release an expansion where you can start a new character and level from 1 to cap in the new zones. Most generally, it's you level from previous cap to new cap.

At least with ESO you could actually level from 1-50 just on the new zones if you really wanted to. They even created a new tutorial leading you directly into that zone. I wish they added a couple new dungeons but between the delves world bosses trial and public dungeons plus the addition with battlegrounds. I think it's a fair price to content ratio.

This. Ok kids, if you think ESO is bad, then you're more then welcome to check out the other mmos. Good luck finding anything better.

ShedsHisTail

gediv2 wrote: »

Selling this dlc as an expansion is Bait and switch. Unethical, and illegal in some jurisdictions. I'm sure they vetted the scam with their legal department and adding the Battlegrounds was likely their way circumventing legal liability. This is typical large corporation behavior. It garners no consumer loyalty and the corporation doesn't care because there is a presumed life span of the product and as long as the projected numbers are good....

Or maybe I'm just cynical?

The palace looks cool though.

Which jurisdiction specifically? Just one is fine.
Please cite the statute you're referencing.

Rikkof

Drachenfier wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I for one was happy to pay for this, and I sub. More than happy to support the game.

Then again, I'm a fully grown adult that doesn't throw a fit over 40 dollars worth of entertainment that I can not buy if I so choose.

It's so cool that you can afford 40$, it's really worth of brawling on the internet. But the problem is this "expansion" is not worthy of 40$. This is almost a price of AAA game. That is the most important point here, not your cool income and wealthy life.

Worth is subjective. The point is that you can choose not to buy it. All of this crying is pointless, and makes a lot of people look entitled.

if the player spend a dime , he is deemed to ask for quality, period.
He payed a product that dont meet the description whatsoever, or oyu are trying to tell us you played a lot of BG's lately?
He payed his eso+, maybe he used money on store and what not, meaning he did invested in teh game, ASIDE from the fact that he purchased with real money( you know, those things you get as a reward IN REAL LIFE for hard work)?
A product not meeting the decription IS NOT subjective. It is something others call the police for.....to look into it.

Sheva I 7 I

Im not paying 40 euros for wrothgar expanded, will buy it in 3 months or so when price is 15 euros. Its complete ***, this is not a brand new game, nor does it carries enough content for me to spend 40 euros on.

ZOS_Bill

We've had to remove more posts for flaming in this thread, and since this has not stopped after the earlier warning, the discussion is being closed. As mentioned before, you are welcome to voice your criticisms, but you cannot insult other players while doing so. If you disagree with someones criticism, respond civilly, and don't bait them into reacting negatively.