Why those that defend the resource management changes are wrong

Hallothiel · May 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

Avran_Sylt · May 2017

Make Resource Regen independent of Heavy attacks, and effect both stamina and magicka at the same time. If you use stamina abilities you lose stamina faster and stop passive stamina regen, magicka you lose magicka faster and stop passive magicka regen. So if you spam one or the other that resource is gonna be empty most of the time meaning you're gonna need to heavy attack. But if you alternate between resource pools you'll be able to keep your resources relatively stable. Then make a shite tonne of new magicka skills that require no staff and are the basic schools of magic but are less effective than the staff counterparts.

I honestly don't think there should be pure stamina builds in ESO since it's a damn world with magic. I think you should be able to spec into full stamina if you've got niche end game gear, but ultimately I think hybrids should be the way to go.

Fasque · May 2017

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

kynseon · May 2017

Fasque wrote: »

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

Man i cannot agree more thats exactly what i think.

colig · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

Are people not allowed to complain when they don't like changes? "Oh but it's just a game, get over it".

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

colig · May 2017

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

OP literally say anyone who defends the changes is wrong.

You should go look up the definition of spamming though. Blocking isn't spamming. Templar shield was nerfed for dmg because they decided if you want to run around with 60k hp you can but you won't be doing much dmg anymore.

The sustain changes were because cp and other changes has basically made sustain irrelevant for 6 months. Now it's relevant again and people can't handle it.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

OP literally say anyone who defends the changes is wrong.

You should go look up the definition of spamming though. Blocking isn't spamming. Templar shield was nerfed for dmg because they decided if you want to run around with 60k hp you can but you won't be doing much dmg anymore.

The sustain changes were because cp and other changes has basically made sustain irrelevant for 6 months. Now it's relevant again and people can't handle it.

sustains were Irrelevant as it allowed people to just spam skills, people can still spam skills, do massive dps, and not run out of resources, sustains ARE irrelevant. These changes were meant to change that, according to the devs. Some specs have been severely affected, despite being varied, based on skill rotation, while other based on pool maxing and spamming are no less viable.

Anyone who states that I cannot give feedback, or state that I'm just moaning, can't play, hate humanity ect is wrong. Be part of the solution, or be part of somewhere else.

HatchetHaro · May 2017

Marto wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I´m against them simply because I feel they take the fun out of the game.

If doing one heavy attack every 10 seconds removes the "fun" out of the game...

Well, I don't know what to tell you.

4* heavy attacks every 10 seconds.

Completely replacing your main spammable with clunky heavy attacks is not fun. I'm fine with heavy attacking once in a while for resources; I am not fine with having to do it all the bloody time.

me_ming · May 2017

Fasque wrote: »

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

I agree with everything you said

What I get from players who said that they are fine with the changes, is that these are people who just quest and deal with delves/public dungeons and world bosses-- maybe do random normal dungeons, and if they feel a bit brave may a random vet dungeon. Sure, they won't "feel" any change. I mean, I do that all the time with my non-CP toons, without CP. Heck you can probably do that without a class if the game allows you.

This is what the target market of ZoS now. Well, it always has been, but heavily apparent now. It is just sad to think that a few months from now, if they keep up with these, that most people will not care about end-game content (especially PvE). No one will be able to do it. Well, probably some. but vWGT/vICP/vRom/vCoS/vCoA/vTrials? Good luck. Maybe then these people who are so lax now, will change their tune. And then they will know that ZoS really won't care about them anymore, because there are new people who just joined the game.

btw, that HA + Shield is EXACTLY what I did in Kena, in vWGT earlier. lol.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

OP literally say anyone who defends the changes is wrong.

You should go look up the definition of spamming though. Blocking isn't spamming. Templar shield was nerfed for dmg because they decided if you want to run around with 60k hp you can but you won't be doing much dmg anymore.

The sustain changes were because cp and other changes has basically made sustain irrelevant for 6 months. Now it's relevant again and people can't handle it.

sustains were Irrelevant as it allowed people to just spam skills, people can still spam skills, do massive dps, and not run out of resources, sustains ARE irrelevant. These changes were meant to change that, according to the devs. Some specs have been severely affected, despite being varied, based on skill rotation, while other based on pool maxing and spamming are no less viable.

Anyone who states that I cannot give feedback, or state that I'm just moaning, can't play, hate humanity ect is wrong. Be part of the solution, or be part of somewhere else.

Pvp or pve?

If pvp, go play non cp and say everyone can infinite sustain.

In pve please use your old dps build and show me how you sustain infinitely because you won't. You have to actually spec for some sustain now.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

OP literally say anyone who defends the changes is wrong.

You should go look up the definition of spamming though. Blocking isn't spamming. Templar shield was nerfed for dmg because they decided if you want to run around with 60k hp you can but you won't be doing much dmg anymore.

The sustain changes were because cp and other changes has basically made sustain irrelevant for 6 months. Now it's relevant again and people can't handle it.

sustains were Irrelevant as it allowed people to just spam skills, people can still spam skills, do massive dps, and not run out of resources, sustains ARE irrelevant. These changes were meant to change that, according to the devs. Some specs have been severely affected, despite being varied, based on skill rotation, while other based on pool maxing and spamming are no less viable.

Anyone who states that I cannot give feedback, or state that I'm just moaning, can't play, hate humanity ect is wrong. Be part of the solution, or be part of somewhere else.

Pvp or pve?

If pvp, go play non cp and say everyone can infinite sustain.

In pve please use your old dps build and show me how you sustain infinitely because you won't. You have to actually spec for some sustain now.

My sorc isn't optimized for spamming, as I enjoy varied play, but in tests, she can spam, kill fast, due to vampirism and spec have very high regens, spell damage and crit. Spam play is still more than viable, as are all magicka builds, spam build or not.

The changes need to make spamming skills really really expensive, while leaving skill rotation and bar swapping to layer buff and effect a viable option for the majority.

Epona222 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

You buy a product, invest you money into it. Invest your time beta testing, for free, giving feedback. You invest further money to subscribe, even after freeplay. You walk away without giving feedback on why? without trying to keep the game fun? without attempting to make them see a better way?

Having known tragedy doesn't have any baring whatso ever on whether these changes are good or bad, no baring on game enjoyment, and although on a human level, it saddens me to know you've known tragedy, in the context on this convo, it's entire irrelevant.

You haven't invested anything into it, it's a whim for your free time and cash. A hobby. My mum spends more money on wool for knitting than I've spent on this game (and probably more than you have spent too, she's quite a fierce knitter). If you were an investor in the company, you'd have a say. We are customers, not investors.

Invested http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested number three. We have invested, both in the 3rd sense, and in your ussumed sense, time and money. The fact is, I want to make the game better, more varied, more fun, more flexible, less cookiecutter, less micromanagment, more skill rewarding more.

Oh for the love of...

OK so since my mum buys a lot of wool and spends an inordinate amount of time knitting (she has invested money and time into the sheep farming industry as per the dictionary definition) she should get a say in how sheep-farming is handled... no.

No, but if she requested a particular shade of wool, or needles of different length and thickness, should the shop listen, think about her devotion to the craft, and act accordingly?

Act how? If the sheep farming industry can't provide that, should she get any say i

colig wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

No sweetheart, it's me saying that to you... don't try to turn it around on me just because you don't get the gist of what I said! Ah, bless.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

You buy a product, invest you money into it. Invest your time beta testing, for free, giving feedback. You invest further money to subscribe, even after freeplay. You walk away without giving feedback on why? without trying to keep the game fun? without attempting to make them see a better way?

Having known tragedy doesn't have any baring whatso ever on whether these changes are good or bad, no baring on game enjoyment, and although on a human level, it saddens me to know you've known tragedy, in the context on this convo, it's entire irrelevant.

You haven't invested anything into it, it's a whim for your free time and cash. A hobby. My mum spends more money on wool for knitting than I've spent on this game (and probably more than you have spent too, she's quite a fierce knitter). If you were an investor in the company, you'd have a say. We are customers, not investors.

Invested http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested number three. We have invested, both in the 3rd sense, and in your ussumed sense, time and money. The fact is, I want to make the game better, more varied, more fun, more flexible, less cookiecutter, less micromanagment, more skill rewarding more.

Oh for the love of...

OK so since my mum buys a lot of wool and spends an inordinate amount of time knitting (she has invested money and time into the sheep farming industry as per the dictionary definition) she should get a say in how sheep-farming is handled... no.

No, but if she requested a particular shade of wool, or needles of different length and thickness, should the shop listen, think about her devotion to the craft, and act accordingly?

Act how? If the sheep farming industry can't provide that, should she get any say i

colig wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

No sweetheart, it's me saying that to you... don't try to turn it around on me just because you don't get the gist of what I said! Ah, bless.

Sheep farming the "host" industry to wool production. Windows (or ps xbox ect) the host platform for ESO. In your example, you're claim that I seek influence over microsoft, sony, and nintendo (edit, I mean apple, not nintendo XD). In fact, the more valid analogy is the one I put forwards, and I ask that you answer it directly, or admit your error, either with words, or silence.

Zenimax CAN make these changes better.

Hallothiel · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Lordy. Was just suggesting that people might need to get a grip about this game & the changes that happen & have a bit of perspective!

I play this game to relax after working in a sector where I do have to deal with some of the nasty things humans can do to each other so can sometimes get a little exasperated at the rants and complaints here.

Epona222 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

You buy a product, invest you money into it. Invest your time beta testing, for free, giving feedback. You invest further money to subscribe, even after freeplay. You walk away without giving feedback on why? without trying to keep the game fun? without attempting to make them see a better way?

Having known tragedy doesn't have any baring whatso ever on whether these changes are good or bad, no baring on game enjoyment, and although on a human level, it saddens me to know you've known tragedy, in the context on this convo, it's entire irrelevant.

You haven't invested anything into it, it's a whim for your free time and cash. A hobby. My mum spends more money on wool for knitting than I've spent on this game (and probably more than you have spent too, she's quite a fierce knitter). If you were an investor in the company, you'd have a say. We are customers, not investors.

Invested http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested number three. We have invested, both in the 3rd sense, and in your ussumed sense, time and money. The fact is, I want to make the game better, more varied, more fun, more flexible, less cookiecutter, less micromanagment, more skill rewarding more.

Oh for the love of...

OK so since my mum buys a lot of wool and spends an inordinate amount of time knitting (she has invested money and time into the sheep farming industry as per the dictionary definition) she should get a say in how sheep-farming is handled... no.

No, but if she requested a particular shade of wool, or needles of different length and thickness, should the shop listen, think about her devotion to the craft, and act accordingly?

Act how? If the sheep farming industry can't provide that, should she get any say i

colig wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

No sweetheart, it's me saying that to you... don't try to turn it around on me just because you don't get the gist of what I said! Ah, bless.

Sheep farming the "host" industry to wool production. Windows (or ps xbox ect) the host platform for ESO. In your example, you're claim that I seek influence over microsoft, sony, and nintendo (edit, I mean apple, not nintendo XD). In fact, the more valid analogy is the one I put forwards, and I ask that you answer it directly, or admit your error, either with words, or silence.

Zenimax CAN make these changes better.

The entire point of everything I have said, is to try to point out that this game is a hobby, much like knitting. You have pretty much proven a point I was trying to demonstrate (about how ridiculous people could get) by not realising that, and trying to fit my wool farming example into your idea of how you think the game industry should work. Well done, I find it quite funny, and an enjoyable little insight.

BTW: It's a hobby. Buying a game, or a ball of wool, does not make you an investor. If you think it does, please get help.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Get over yourself, the guys got a point.

People are getting far too angry about a game, your getting far too worked up yourself just because a response didn't agree with yours. What are you expecting when you tell people they are wrong in the title?

All that about spending time, money and effort etc.... That doesn't matter when you signed the agreement to play the game you allowed zos to change it in any way they want. Your entire point involves something about stopping? Where did they say that?

The guy doesn't have a point, what they are saying is, as there are far more important issue to sort out in the real world, any time put in to making idea to improve this game are invalid. Granted they never use the exact phrase "stop spamming" but they repeatedly state "X change is to lessen over usage", Ex: block, templar shield, regens in general, cons changes, they say that throughout the patch notes.

And your point ignores the fact that the game is made FOR its players, changes should increase and enhance gameplay, and we as players, have a right to point out when they get it wrong, why it is wrong, and how to make it better. Anyone disagreeing with this, doesn't understand that MMO fundamentally rely on player community, and those that belittles those that make suggestion, and give feedback, are ultimately what destroy MMO community, and consequently the game that relies on that player base.

OP literally say anyone who defends the changes is wrong.

You should go look up the definition of spamming though. Blocking isn't spamming. Templar shield was nerfed for dmg because they decided if you want to run around with 60k hp you can but you won't be doing much dmg anymore.

The sustain changes were because cp and other changes has basically made sustain irrelevant for 6 months. Now it's relevant again and people can't handle it.

sustains were Irrelevant as it allowed people to just spam skills, people can still spam skills, do massive dps, and not run out of resources, sustains ARE irrelevant. These changes were meant to change that, according to the devs. Some specs have been severely affected, despite being varied, based on skill rotation, while other based on pool maxing and spamming are no less viable.

Anyone who states that I cannot give feedback, or state that I'm just moaning, can't play, hate humanity ect is wrong. Be part of the solution, or be part of somewhere else.

Pvp or pve?

If pvp, go play non cp and say everyone can infinite sustain.

In pve please use your old dps build and show me how you sustain infinitely because you won't. You have to actually spec for some sustain now.

My sorc isn't optimized for spamming, as I enjoy varied play, but in tests, she can spam, kill fast, due to vampirism and spec have very high regens, spell damage and crit. Spam play is still more than viable, as are all magicka builds, spam build or not.

The changes need to make spamming skills really really expensive, while leaving skill rotation and bar swapping to layer buff and effect a viable option for the majority.

'Spam play'

You have 10 skill slots, 'spam' play will always be a part of them game. Your gonna have over half of those slots as buff's heals or utility.

SanTii.92 · May 2017

Stikl? This conversation is so old.. Everyone from the pts has already adapted and is jut fine. You will too, just give it some time.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Hallothiel wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Lordy. Was just suggesting that people might need to get a grip about this game & the changes that happen & have a bit of perspective!

I play this game to relax after working in a sector where I do have to deal with some of the nasty things humans can do to each other so can sometimes get a little exasperated at the rants and complaints here.

I don't just complain, I put forward solutions too https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/346599/an-idea-to-improve-the-game-skill-spamming-solution#latest want to help make the game better? Great, have your say, put your own idea if you don't like mine, I'll read it.

Also, its great that you help people, I say that genuinely. Those that help others are always to be respected for it.

Epona222 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

I couldn't agree more. Reading the forum these past few weeks it's like I missed the announcement that ESO was no longer "just a game".

Totally agree.

Sometimes people need to take a step back & a deep breath & realise that this is just a game.

It's nice to be passionate about something but better if that something is a bit more than just a game!

Sure, we could talk about international terrorism, child starvation rates globally. The fact that child girls are being forced in to marriages with horrific consequences for them. The millions that don't have access to clean drinking water, basic healthcare, education, human dignity. We could talk about the myriad war crimes taking place, political prisoners held without trial and tortured. The growing issue on online pedophilia human trafficking, drug addiction, gang crime, dictatorships, climate change, extinction of species.

However, this forum is for the discussion of Elder scroll related things. I'll happily discuss all these far more important issues with you, make a post on an appropriate forum, link it here, and I'll take part.

I await your post that addresses all these very important issues.

Lordy. Was just suggesting that people might need to get a grip about this game & the changes that happen & have a bit of perspective!

I play this game to relax after working in a sector where I do have to deal with some of the nasty things humans can do to each other so can sometimes get a little exasperated at the rants and complaints here.

I don't just complain, I put forward solutions too https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/346599/an-idea-to-improve-the-game-skill-spamming-solution#latest want to help make the game better? Great, have your say, put your own idea if you don't like mine, I'll read it.

Also, its great that you help people, I say that genuinely. Those that help others are always to be respected for it.

No-one here can implement it into the game, use /feedback to give feedback to the devs.

Zyrudin · May 2017

Fasque wrote: »

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

Not saying either way, but could these changes be an anti-stack-and-burn-the-boss measure to force groups to follow intended mechanics? For example, the Lightning Storm Atronach in vAA, that has a specific mechanic that no group follows anymore because they can stack-and-burn.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

You buy a product, invest you money into it. Invest your time beta testing, for free, giving feedback. You invest further money to subscribe, even after freeplay. You walk away without giving feedback on why? without trying to keep the game fun? without attempting to make them see a better way?

Having known tragedy doesn't have any baring whatso ever on whether these changes are good or bad, no baring on game enjoyment, and although on a human level, it saddens me to know you've known tragedy, in the context on this convo, it's entire irrelevant.

You haven't invested anything into it, it's a whim for your free time and cash. A hobby. My mum spends more money on wool for knitting than I've spent on this game (and probably more than you have spent too, she's quite a fierce knitter). If you were an investor in the company, you'd have a say. We are customers, not investors.

Invested http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested number three. We have invested, both in the 3rd sense, and in your ussumed sense, time and money. The fact is, I want to make the game better, more varied, more fun, more flexible, less cookiecutter, less micromanagment, more skill rewarding more.

Oh for the love of...

OK so since my mum buys a lot of wool and spends an inordinate amount of time knitting (she has invested money and time into the sheep farming industry as per the dictionary definition) she should get a say in how sheep-farming is handled... no.

No, but if she requested a particular shade of wool, or needles of different length and thickness, should the shop listen, think about her devotion to the craft, and act accordingly?

Act how? If the sheep farming industry can't provide that, should she get any say i

colig wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

No sweetheart, it's me saying that to you... don't try to turn it around on me just because you don't get the gist of what I said! Ah, bless.

Sheep farming the "host" industry to wool production. Windows (or ps xbox ect) the host platform for ESO. In your example, you're claim that I seek influence over microsoft, sony, and nintendo (edit, I mean apple, not nintendo XD). In fact, the more valid analogy is the one I put forwards, and I ask that you answer it directly, or admit your error, either with words, or silence.

Zenimax CAN make these changes better.

The entire point of everything I have said, is to try to point out that this game is a hobby, much like knitting. You have pretty much proven a point I was trying to demonstrate (about how ridiculous people could get) by not realising that, and trying to fit my wool farming example into your idea of how you think the game industry should work. Well done, I find it quite funny, and an enjoyable little insight.

BTW: It's a hobby. Buying a game, or a ball of wool, does not make you an investor. If you think it does, please get help.

I didn't say that I was an investor, I said that I had invested time effort and money, as in the 3rd listed meaning here http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested which you already knew as I have already explain this to you. You example was ridiculous, as it claimed that your knitting mother should expect influence over the entire sheep farming industry, of which, wool production forms a tiny part. My claim is that as a loyal costumer of the "wool shop" she should be listened to by that wool shop on knitting related matters.

Much as Zeni should listen to it's player base, in order to keep their custom.

ookami007 · May 2017

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

You need to learn to play.

The dev note state they are to end spamming of skills. Skills can still be spammed, effectively, and without any adaptation.
The dev notes state they are to increase Spec variation, and skill usage. Due to the asymmetric affect of stam based specs, and on large cost stam abilities, it decreases the range of viable spec, and therefore spec variation. Additionally, as lower cost skills now have an advantage as a result of these changes, skill usage variation will decrease. People are already saying just be a sorc, spam magicka skills. I however want to play in more than one way, with one spec, or be severely disadvantaged. One "king spec" does not make for fun, skillful, varied, or fair gameplay.

A better change is needed: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/346599/an-idea-to-improve-the-game-skill-spamming-solution#latest

[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. Now EVERY magicka build HAS to have a staff to heavy attack restore magicka since other weapons will only restore stamina. I was doing a WB daily yesterday and every single person except one had a staff. ULTRA LAME.

Fasque · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Fasque wrote: »

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

Not saying either way, but could these changes be an anti-stack-and-burn-the-boss measure to force groups to follow intended mechanics? For example, the Lightning Storm Atronach in vAA, that has a specific mechanic that no group follows anymore because they can stack-and-burn.

In vAA you have to run to the sigils and play the mechainc bcs it'll kill you if you don't...
And I never saw a group in since one tamriel which was able to skip this mechanic there

And you still can't bcs the incomming dmg remains the same.

And I think there will be alot of content locked now for a huge part of the playerbase. Because for example the Mage in HM is a pure dps race if you ask me. Eighter you can burn the adds or you can't and rip.
Well, my guild had decent dps last patch (burning Rakkhat on 5th and stuff) but tbh I think clearing vAA hm again will be a pain nobody wants to go through...

(me neighter tbh :x)

Galwylin · May 2017

What it comes down to is magicka builds have the easiest time while stamina have a harder time... still. I still don't see why they don't base damage, healing and avoidance off the combination of the two so the balance between classes could at least be achievable since everyone is pulling the same overall regardless of build. Gear would be the one viable now that CP are finished and that's much easier to accept than class nerfs.

I'm not sure why management of resources suddenly became the mantra. My only guess is battlegrounds would always last until the timer ran out and they thought players would be frustrated never obtaining a win. Unfortunately, this seems to leave some classes even further behind others. Sorcerers will dominate with templars at their heels while dragonknights are just thankful they aren't nightblades. Which is pretty much where they all were. Only now, its just tiny winy bit harder (for some, for others its over).

IwakuraLain42 · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Fasque wrote: »

Actually I didn't wanted to write anything in this forums anymore bcs I should really stop to care about this game. But well... You got me with this thread ^^

The thing with the ressource management in this patch (for PVE) is that it's really bad balanced. My guild is very exp in terms of vTrials and group play and we have a bunch of really awesome and skilled players who don't need to l2p I guess.

I guess for the casual players the changes doesn't really matter bcs most of them have neighter the speed nor the rotation to burn their ressources and pull decent dps. For this players it works out to do one HA every 10 seconds to keep their ressources up and pulling the same average dps as before.
Don't get me wrong - when I say average I mean dps with which every dungeon and all the casual content is totally doable especially because the fights there doesn't last too long even with just an average grp. So most likely it won't happen that the fight isn't over before your ressources are totally drained.

This is NOT the case in longer fights.
We went to check out the trials yesterday and the ressources are really a huge proplem there. Since the dps got nerfed overall it's not possible anymore to nuke the Bosses as fast as before. So the fights last longer and the sustain is pain because of all the other changes like orbs, drain, siphon spirit in last patch and so on.
Even with builds fully focused on cost reduction/recovery glyphs and a few of us used even magicka drain poison or magicka absorbtion glyphs or swapped their weaving skill with force pulse to get magicka back from the destro passives, it was NOT possible to sustain.
Basically it doesn't really matter because all of our dd's had crappy dps. If you go full sustain you'll have crappy dps from the beginning of the fight but you can hold your ressources up for a bit longer and if you go full damage you'll start with nice dps in the beginning of the fight and you'll drop down then during the combat.
The drain seems to be higher than the reg anyway except of you spam a ridiculous ammount of heavy attacks during fights which lasts longer than 5mins.

But the funniest part of this whole mess shows up as soon as everybody in the grp is out of magicka and you can just focus on staying alive. Your rotation will be then: HA - shield - HA - shield - HA - shield... and as soon as you gained a bit of your ressource pool back you can reapply a dot and go on with your HA/shield rotation.

If you ask me - this is insanity.
This game was already to much about dots and now it feels even more like that. The whole combat system got slowed down dramatically and as from my point I really don't enjoy to have the feeling that I have to "*** the skills out of my character" and desperately spamming a butten with the hop that it will cast it just in time to prevent me from dying.

And as I saw yesterday a Bossfight in hm can last 15 minutes again where you have to HA/shield/dot and you see that all in ppl in your grp are suffering in order to live longer than the boss does. The healers tried desperately to sustain the dd's and heal the tanks and the dd's tried to bring the Boss down and to survive in order not to waste the healers magicka.
This is really frustrating for ppl like me who are part of a progressive trials guild where group support is really important and everybody want's to do his job but you basically cant.
(I really should have counted the amounts of "sorrys" I've heard from the heals when a dd died because they where locked in a HA animation and couldn't heal anybody - this is fatality in places where you have a ton of incoming damage which you can't avoid)

As for me I'll stay unsubbed and just log in to spend time with al the friends I've found in this game or help ppl out in trial grps if somebody doesn't show up or so.
But the combat system as it is atm has NOTHING to do with fast paced action... It's more like you have to go to a trials as a solo player, survive on your own, sustain on your own and try not to die till it's over. This is sad.
In my opinion you should manage your ressources on your own in solo content ofc! But when you're playing in a group where everybody has his job you should be able to focus on your main role. This is not the case anymore what makes the 12-men content a painfull expierience.

I would recommend that the devs would have a close up look at combat systems which really are fast paced and full of action like the combosystem in BDO where you never have to care about your ressources.
Maybe it's just my taste but this whole ressource management thingy is really boring and disheartening. It's not how combat should feel like. When I play a dd I wanna do dps and go *drsch-drsch-boom* (guess this is why it's called Damage Dealer and not Ressource Manager) jj ^^

sorry for this really long post!
Can't wait for the *** about it

Not saying either way, but could these changes be an anti-stack-and-burn-the-boss measure to force groups to follow intended mechanics? For example, the Lightning Storm Atronach in vAA, that has a specific mechanic that no group follows anymore because they can stack-and-burn.

You obviously haven't stepped into vAA in the last 6 months. No group that I know of can ignore the mechanics there. You have to go to the yellow pads (if they aren't bugging out), no healer can outheal the lightning damage.

Epona222 · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

You buy a product, invest you money into it. Invest your time beta testing, for free, giving feedback. You invest further money to subscribe, even after freeplay. You walk away without giving feedback on why? without trying to keep the game fun? without attempting to make them see a better way?

Having known tragedy doesn't have any baring whatso ever on whether these changes are good or bad, no baring on game enjoyment, and although on a human level, it saddens me to know you've known tragedy, in the context on this convo, it's entire irrelevant.

You haven't invested anything into it, it's a whim for your free time and cash. A hobby. My mum spends more money on wool for knitting than I've spent on this game (and probably more than you have spent too, she's quite a fierce knitter). If you were an investor in the company, you'd have a say. We are customers, not investors.

Invested http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested number three. We have invested, both in the 3rd sense, and in your ussumed sense, time and money. The fact is, I want to make the game better, more varied, more fun, more flexible, less cookiecutter, less micromanagment, more skill rewarding more.

Oh for the love of...

OK so since my mum buys a lot of wool and spends an inordinate amount of time knitting (she has invested money and time into the sheep farming industry as per the dictionary definition) she should get a say in how sheep-farming is handled... no.

No, but if she requested a particular shade of wool, or needles of different length and thickness, should the shop listen, think about her devotion to the craft, and act accordingly?

Act how? If the sheep farming industry can't provide that, should she get any say i

colig wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You know what? I don't actually give much of a you know what about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm old, maybe it's because I've seen real tragedy in my life (you know, like people actually dying and stuff), but I just can't seem to work up as much anger about any of this as some of you seem to be able to manage. It's a game - play it while you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it go do something else, but for the love of all that is good please stop acting like it's some massive life-altering tragedy. Because it isn't.

If you don't care, why are you here complaining about the OP? Go outside and do something substantial with your life unlike the rest of us.

Age is also irrelevant here. You can be 17 or 70 and no one would know.

No sweetheart, it's me saying that to you... don't try to turn it around on me just because you don't get the gist of what I said! Ah, bless.

Sheep farming the "host" industry to wool production. Windows (or ps xbox ect) the host platform for ESO. In your example, you're claim that I seek influence over microsoft, sony, and nintendo (edit, I mean apple, not nintendo XD). In fact, the more valid analogy is the one I put forwards, and I ask that you answer it directly, or admit your error, either with words, or silence.

Zenimax CAN make these changes better.

The entire point of everything I have said, is to try to point out that this game is a hobby, much like knitting. You have pretty much proven a point I was trying to demonstrate (about how ridiculous people could get) by not realising that, and trying to fit my wool farming example into your idea of how you think the game industry should work. Well done, I find it quite funny, and an enjoyable little insight.

BTW: It's a hobby. Buying a game, or a ball of wool, does not make you an investor. If you think it does, please get help.

I didn't say that I was an investor, I said that I had invested time effort and money, as in the 3rd listed meaning here http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invested which you already knew as I have already explain this to you. You example was ridiculous, as it claimed that your knitting mother should expect influence over the entire sheep farming industry, of which, wool production forms a tiny part. My claim is that as a loyal costumer of the "wool shop" she should be listened to by that wool shop on knitting related matters.

Much as Zeni should listen to it's player base, in order to keep their custom.

Which is PRECISELY the point I was trying to make in the first place - you invest time and money into the game the same way as my mum invests time and money into knitting. The fact you spent some cash on this game gives you no more say over how it is run than my mum has over the wool industry.

Giving up now, if you don't understand the point I have been making all along and have talked us right back around to this same point and still not understood it, then I can't help with that. Seriously.

If you don't like the game, go get another hobby.