Crown Store Research Timer Scrolls = P2w?

Cpt_Teemo

Anyone else think its kind of P2w for the time most of everyone put into?

Rinmaethodain

Yes

I'm saddened to see that with each update, the role of crafter is being steadily diminished to the point where soon, everybody will be a crafter and need to find one (and all the MMO related social interactions related to that) will be permanently gone.

Each quarterly update seems to be adding another nail into coffin of crafters profession.

First, the nerf to crafted gear from very long ago. After that sure, we got plenty of new motifs but shift of meta from crafted to looted gear made them greatly useless without any form of transmog/restyle system. But if anybody bothered enough to collect motif styles soon had their work diminished with flood of chapters released in recent anniversary event.

In meantime Homestead that could revive the role of crafter was at least mediocre. Complete detachment of furniture crafting from trait researching allowed players to simply pay their way with gold to reach ranks 50 in woodworking/clothing/blacksmithing/... and become a "master furniture crafter".

Now the research scrolls. The research timers were last thing in ESO that would separate long term players from people who just joined game. Knowing all traits meant something.
Research scrolls diminish all that work and allow players to buy their way into status of master crafter in result killing profession of crafter slowly bleeding it out.

When everyone is master crafter nobody needs one. You can already buy your way into ranks 50 of crafting, soon you will be able to buy your way into max researches and you can already buy your way into master stylist (all motifs known).

Sure, not everybody is interested in crafting, there will be still players who will completely ignore that part of game... until it will become necessary to do so.

Currently players already max their crafting skills just to be able to improve bound gear to higher level with minimal use of tempers. If transmogrification will be ever added into game, ability to change style of any gear piece i bet my last pair of nuts that it will make equipment bound and by oversight only the owner of equipment will be allowed to perform it. Casualification of furniture crafting also encourages maxing out crafting skills just like that.

Whats my point? There is nothing done to help dedicated crafters to provide their services, most hurtful thing is that there is no way for them to perform any operation on bound equipment (something as simple as improve other players monster helmet).

Each patch seems to be pushing the average player into direction of crafting, subtly forcing them to do it and in result indirectly destroying way of playing for other players (dedicated crafters).

Mashille

It's not really P2W as it is just a time saver same with Riding Lessons so if you think this is P2W you must also thing Riding Lessons and Bank Space are P2W.

However:

This one does annoy me significantly more than all the others as before it felt like a real Achievement to have 9 Traits on everything as it took around one and a half years to do it now that it is buyable I feel the title of "Master Crafter" becomes slightly less valuable as you can juts buy your way there (No matter how expensive it is)

Peekachu99

No

If crafted sets were actually useful, instead of just filler that hasn't been updated or made relevant in years, then the P2W argument (stretching it even then) might hold water.

But since 99% of sets are useless aside from Juliano's or Hunding's, expedited research is as useless as the thousands of motifs that can't be used for anything save for the aforementioned useless gear.

Gedalya

I agree; I like the idea of hard work as it relates to forging a character. I dislike achievements that can be purchased on the fly; what is the point?

Tholian1

Yes

The scrolls are unnecessary and just another cash grab. Does instant gratification keep people playing over the long term better than long term goals do?

winterbornb14_ESO

Yes

Only cosmetic right?

Nestor

No

Each Scroll cuts 24 hours off a research, and can be used effectively once a day. So, just looking at the last two traits which take 25 days on average, give or take, depending on ESO Plus, and whatever passives, so we are calling it 25 days to reduce the madness in the explanation. Someone would have to buy 12 Research Scrolls and then only cut the research time down by half. And that is for one item for the 8th or 9th trait.

Sounds like an expensive way to save time. Even at my age, I don't think it's worth the costs.

Even with the Crown Store NO CD Scrolls, it is still expensive, see below:

Cpt_Teemo

Yes

Tholian1 wrote: »

The scrolls are unnecessary and just another cash grab. Does instant gratification keep people playing over the long term better than long term goals do?

Yeah I mean really, its nice that we didn't need to spend real $ on it but to resort to this for something so rare in game compared to the majority of the players and being *** on kind of wrecks the nerves a bit.

ElornaR

Yes

The time gated trait research is the number one mistake (and the main reason why I don't touch crafting in this game beyond just leveling it to 50 for upgrading gear). Adding a payed system to bypass it is just a way to potentially alienate those that actually went and waited months on end for the research to finish. It's a lose-lose crafting system overall imo.

Maotti

No

No, in my opinion it's not P2W simply because if you rely on just crafted stuff you won't be among the best.

Violynne

No

Nestor wrote: »

Sounds like an expensive way to save time. Even at my age, I don't think it's worth the costs.

As I stated in another thread, ZoS is banking on people not understanding math when buying these scrolls.

By the time one buys all the necessary scrolls to complete 8/9 trait researching on 6+ items, they could use the money to sub which comes with a 10% research reduction and 10% increase in deconstructing exp.

Once again proving the bean counters at ZoS are complete and utter... no. I need to be nice.

Kiralyn2000

No

Nestor wrote: »

Each Scroll cuts 24 hours off a research, and can be used effectively once a day. So, just looking at the last two traits which take 25 days on average, give or take, depending on ESO Plus, and whatever passives, so we are calling it 25 days to reduce the madness in the explanation. Someone would have to buy 12 Research Scrolls and then only cut the research time down by half. And that is for one item for the 8th or 9th trait.

Sounds like an expensive way to save time. Even at my age, I don't think it's worth the costs.

This. It just cuts the time down a bit, it doesn't give you the research straight off.

Plus, you can apparently get them for writ vouchers, and can trade/sell them. (For a lot less than 400 crowns each, too.) The crown store items really seem more like looking for a fool to part from their money, not anything actually good.


...and finally, what exactly are you "winning" with them?

Pops_ND_Irish

I like the scrolls. It helps.
BTW, what are you winning ? So its takes a while versus purchasing something that speeds it up.
Doint want em, dont buy em.

Cpt_Teemo

Yes

MoTeets wrote: »

I like the scrolls. It helps.
BTW, what are you winning ? So its takes a while versus purchasing something that speeds it up.
Doint want em, dont buy em.

They basically *** on the veteran 1 1/2 year time they put into it?

Oakmontowls_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

Each Scroll cuts 24 hours off a research, and can be used effectively once a day. So, just looking at the last two traits which take 25 days on average, give or take, depending on ESO Plus, and whatever passives, so we are calling it 25 days to reduce the madness in the explanation. Someone would have to buy 12 Research Scrolls and then only cut the research time down by half. And that is for one item for the 8th or 9th trait.

Sounds like an expensive way to save time. Even at my age, I don't think it's worth the costs.

Do the crown store ones have a cool down now? On the pts they did not but the ones obtainable in game did.

ManwithBeard9

No

Can I buy vMA weapons or vMoL BoP items yet? No? Not pay to win.

LonePirate

It might be P2W if ZOS hadn't made sure that crafted sets were inferior to dropped sets.

Cpt_Teemo

Yes

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Each Scroll cuts 24 hours off a research, and can be used effectively once a day. So, just looking at the last two traits which take 25 days on average, give or take, depending on ESO Plus, and whatever passives, so we are calling it 25 days to reduce the madness in the explanation. Someone would have to buy 12 Research Scrolls and then only cut the research time down by half. And that is for one item for the 8th or 9th trait.

Sounds like an expensive way to save time. Even at my age, I don't think it's worth the costs.

Do the crown store ones have a cool down now? On the pts they did not but the ones obtainable in game did.

The crown store ones have no cd, but the 3 voucher ones are 20h cd

Cpt_Teemo

Yes

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Can I buy vMA weapons or vMoL BoP items yet? No? Not pay to win.

Your paying to win time, seems about the same thing to me

Cpt_Teemo

Yes

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Can I buy vMA weapons or vMoL BoP items yet? No? Not pay to win.

Your paying to win time, seems about the same thing to me

[snip]

What do you use to obtain those that you listed in game? Also what did people use to complete that research? How is it not the same?

Belidos

So many people don't know what pay to win means nowdays.

TheStealthDude

No

No because you can get crafted armor in game without them.

Ryuuhime

No

With the amount of time research on the last traits takes, I'd say this is a welcome addition for those who haven't finished researching and must keep asking for others to craft gear for them. (this comes from someone who's completed all 9 traits over a year ago)

It's also not P2W, P2W would be something like a token for a sharpened vMA dagger with more damage than a normal vMA dagger.

max_only

Help me out I'm on mobile. I need that gif where the guy comes in and puts down a folding chair and sits in it eagerly. If it isn't up by the time I get home, expect an edit.

Nestor

No

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Do the crown store ones have a cool down now? On the pts they did not but the ones obtainable in game did.

I was not sure if those would make it to the live game (as the CD would hinder testing)

Still an expensive way to save time. Because even if there is no cool down, someone would have to buy a lot of scrolls:

Ignore the first 3 traits, no real benefit to the scrolls, with no passives invested and not covering the first day:

4th trait 35 scrolls
5th trait 105 scrolls
6th trait 245 scrolls
7th trait 525 Scrolls
8th Trait 1085 Scrolls
9th Trait 2025 Scrolls

Total 4020 Scrolls.

Sure, someone might invest in the passives, but that requires leveling crafting to unlock them. So the real amount of scrolls is somewhere in the 2000 to 4000 range to reduce trait research.

How much are these things? 100 Crowns? A Buck? That would be $2000 at a minimum to make crafting take half as long.

Now, if the Scrolls reduced the research time to 0, that would be a different story. Then your looking at $180 to $210 to complete research.

Runs

Right now, no.

When new traits are introduced, and 10 trait sets become craftable... Yes.

Absolut_Turkey

No

No. Do you even know what "pay to win" means? If so, what exactly is a scroll purchaser winning? Is their a contest for crafting time that I'm not aware of?

Rinmaethodain

Yes

Belidos wrote: »

So many people don't know what pay to win means nowdays.

So many people stick to archaic definitions of P2W and think in categories "if i cant kill other player with it then its not P2W"

Turelus

No

Well if it is P2W I won ESO a couple of years ago, so you might as well all uninstall it now, because I won it.

tonemd

Yes

Judging by how good some 9 trait gear is, I could see this as P2W. Anyone who wants to pay this price, thank you for your service. They might keep the servers up for a few days longer.