vMoL, Backroom, any logic in Void Assassins spawn?

Dantaria

I'm the left runner in my progression group, running this red path: http://deltiasgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CSH-Runners-Chart.jpg

I'm doing fairly well, but Void Assassins are a huge hindrance. I can handle one. Or two. Three is hard.

But today I wiped my group twice, because I got four of them. Four! I'm like... I'm magsorc with Streak, but I'm physically unable to make it in time if there are four of these f***ers

Is there any way to prevent this? Any logic in their spawn, something I should avoid? Or if it's completely random... Any tips? I'm like... totally lost I have no idea how am I supposed to make it, if there are 3-4 of them

code65536

It's completely random, and hitting four is pretty rough.

It can help if you head out a little earlier. I'm usually making my way to the back before the new pad has lit up. Those extra 10-15s can make a big difference if you get back luck. You don't really lose DPS by heading out a few seconds early, because it means that you'll return a few seconds early.

And in general, it gets easier with experience. Luck can still wipe you even if you have two experienced runners, but it's very, very rare, as it requires hitting multiple assassins and the callers spawning on the last pads of their path and it happening to both runners.

Speaking of which, there are exactly two callers per side, and once you've found the two on that side, you can potentially take shortcut paths to avoid checking the positions that don't need to be checked. This image color-codes the positions (red is left, green is center, and blue is right) and has suggested shortcuts if a side finishes early (yellow paths).

Dantaria

code65536 wrote: »

It's completely random, and hitting four is pretty rough.

It can help if you head out a little earlier. I'm usually making my way to the back before the new pad has lit up. Those extra 10-15s can make a big difference if you get back luck.

So pray to RNGesus and head out earlier. Thanks a lot, got it!

One question though. I must admit, I do not exactly get the callers' timing. Is it pad related or Hulk related? I usually start to watch for callers when Hulk appears, because I was told that Hulk is the indicator. But some guides say that it's pad related. And you also say that it's connected with pads. So it's not Hulk, it's which pad Rakkhat is on?

code65536 wrote: »

Speaking of which, there are exactly two callers per side, and once you've found the two on that side, you can potentially take shortcut paths to avoid checking the positions that don't need to be checked. This image color-codes the positions (red is left, green is center, and blue is right) and has suggested shortcuts if a side finishes early (yellow paths).

Yes, I know! I'm actually using this one for reference, got it from here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3925111/#Comment_3925111 Just took another because it was more at hand

Btw, thanks a lot for it! I was originally running suboptimal path and things quite often got ugly. This image was literally a whole-group-life-saver, so thanks!

code65536

Dantaria wrote: »

One question though. I must admit, I do not exactly get the callers' timing. Is it pad related or Hulk related? I usually start to watch for callers when Hulk appears, because I was told that Hulk is the indicator. But some guides say that it's pad related. And you also say that it's connected with pads. So it's not Hulk, it's which pad Rakkhat is on?

The first small pad that Rakkhat jumps to after leaving the big center pad is what most people call "Pad 1". And we number them clockwise until we get to 8.

When an even-numbered pad--2, 4, 6, and 8--lights up, a hulk will spawn. These even pads are pretty short in duration--they are lit for only around 20s before the next pad lights up.

The callers appear in the center when an odd-numbered pad--3, 5, and 7--lights up, and these odd-numbered pads last for a while. Around 75 seconds. The odd pads are when the backroom happens.

As soon as an odd pad lights up, the back room activates. So if you're waiting for the callers in the center to appear before heading back, that means you're just starting to make your way to the back when the back room mechanics activate. Whereas if you start heading back a few seconds earlier, you will arrive in the back room when it activates, thus giving you more time. So try to arrive in the back when it starts, instead of heading out when it starts.

Dantaria

code65536 wrote: »

The callers appear in the center when an odd-numbered pad--3, 5, and 7--lights up, and these odd-numbered pads last for a while. Around 75 seconds. The odd pads are when the backroom happens.

As soon as an odd pad lights up, the back room activates. So if you're waiting for the callers in the center to appear before heading back, that means you're just starting to make your way to the back when the back room mechanics activate. Whereas if you start heading back a few seconds earlier, you will arrive in the back room when it activates, thus giving you more time. So try to arrive in the back when it starts, instead of heading out when it starts.

Oh my god, thanks so much! Got it now! I tried to figure timings out by watching videos, but it's pretty hard from someone's PoV. Thanks a lot for the explanation!

Tinus_92

What said above is true, backroom starts at platform 3, 5 & 7. Running towards the backroom also takes 10-15 seconds, so you can theoretically start running halfway platform 2, 4 & 6, which is around when Rakkhat does his first attack within those platforms. Those extra seconds help a lot, especially if still learning.

WarpigFunk

Dantaria wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

It's completely random, and hitting four is pretty rough.

It can help if you head out a little earlier. I'm usually making my way to the back before the new pad has lit up. Those extra 10-15s can make a big difference if you get back luck.

So pray to RNGesus and head out earlier. Thanks a lot, got it!

Be mindful of the rare occassions you get a barrage on pad 2 before meteors.... heading out early you could get owned running behind the tank.

Drummerx04

Dantaria wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The callers appear in the center when an odd-numbered pad--3, 5, and 7--lights up, and these odd-numbered pads last for a while. Around 75 seconds. The odd pads are when the backroom happens.

As soon as an odd pad lights up, the back room activates. So if you're waiting for the callers in the center to appear before heading back, that means you're just starting to make your way to the back when the back room mechanics activate. Whereas if you start heading back a few seconds earlier, you will arrive in the back room when it activates, thus giving you more time. So try to arrive in the back when it starts, instead of heading out when it starts.

Oh my god, thanks so much! Got it now! I tried to figure timings out by watching videos, but it's pretty hard from someone's PoV. Thanks a lot for the explanation!

I usually run left side for Code's group, apart from heading out early, it is important to move efficiently when in the back. Time the Eye of Jode synergy to go off while passing the braziers instead of stopping to cast the synergy. If a caller pops up while passing, you can spin around while continuing on your path and take it out with a quick light attack, so you'll still be halfway to the next brazier while taking out the last caller. Knowing which braziers automatically unlight after you clear one side is also huge.

The second trick is having a specific rotation in mind for the assassins. They only have about 30k health, but if you get unlucky on crits, that could still take extra seconds that you don't want to waste. Usually I drop ground dots, then block cancel a light attack+force pulse. If the assassin isn't dead after the force pulse, he will be after the ground dots tick one more time even with bad crits. My record is 5 assassins while clearing my side.

Third, ask people in your raid to stop calling out void caller positions. You already know where to go, and the vast majority of the time, hearing them call out "two right, once center, one left" doesn't help because it doesn't change what you have to do or how fast you have to do it and it's just unnecessary chatter.

Dantaria

Drummerx04 wrote: »

My record is 5 assassins while clearing my side.

...
/kowtow

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Third, ask people in your raid to stop calling out void caller positions. You already know where to go, and the vast majority of the time, hearing them call out "two right, once center, one left" doesn't help because it doesn't change what you have to do or how fast you have to do it and it's just unnecessary chatter.

Yes, that's a very good advice and one I already figured out myself

It's not only "unnecessary chatter", it can be very aggravating, if one is still learning. Running is stressful enough and when you hear "two left, still two left"... I'm silently going into "OMFG I KNOW THEY SPAWNED IN THE END OF THE PATH S**T LUCK GETTING THERE SHUT UP" The cups are good indicator, everything else just makes it more stressful

***

Guys, thanks a lot, all of you! Your advices helped a lot, I'm still far from making it fast, but I'm not wiping my group even with s**t luck now, so yay And the rest will come with practice

We're not making it until Morrowind, alas. So we're going to experience a setback, thanks, Zeni But we're still not giving up and have no intention of giving up, so thanks again for all the help!

MrFish024

I've heard but can't confirm that killing the cats spawn more assassins so maybe try not running boundless storm. Also if you do spawn an assassins make sure you kill it and don't let it run to your partner, just makes it harder on them.

code65536

MrFish024 wrote: »

I've heard but can't confirm that killing the cats spawn more assassins so maybe try not running boundless storm. Also if you do spawn an assassins make sure you kill it and don't let it run to your partner, just makes it harder on them.

The deaths of the innocent cats just puts a DoT on you (Debt of Lorkhaj), but it's not a very big DoT and you should be perma-shielding in the back room anyway. Their deaths have absolutely zero effect on what happens in the front room. Their deaths have zero effect on the number of assassins you get in the back room.

Dantaria

MrFish024 wrote: »

I've heard but can't confirm that killing the cats spawn more assassins so maybe try not running boundless storm. Also if you do spawn an assassins make sure you kill it and don't let it run to your partner, just makes it harder on them.

Yeah, can 100% confirm what code65536 said. Bent Cats have zero influence on assassins spawn, they simply put DoT on you.

And though this DoT is small, you will pay dearly for stressing out and accidently killing several of them (don't ask ). So actually if you go with sorc-with-bolt-escape strategy, you'd better choose Ball of Lightning morph or no morph at all there. Streak can screw you.

As for assassins, yeah - totally yes, but they sometimes bug They may spawn and start running to your partner straight away, leaving you with WTF face We just warn each other when this happens for now.

MrFish024

code65536 wrote: »

MrFish024 wrote: »

I've heard but can't confirm that killing the cats spawn more assassins so maybe try not running boundless storm. Also if you do spawn an assassins make sure you kill it and don't let it run to your partner, just makes it harder on them.

The deaths of the innocent cats just puts a DoT on you (Debt of Lorkhaj), but it's not a very big DoT and you should be perma-shielding in the back room anyway. Their deaths have absolutely zero effect on what happens in the front room. Their deaths have zero effect on the number of assassins you get in the back room.

Good to know. I play on Xbox so we have had to avoid vmol like the plague for the last 3 months.

Mazbt

Any chance of someone posting a video of their back room perspectives both left and right sides please? In order to finally get my vet maw HM I feel like I'm gonna HAVE to learn the back room. I hear burning before lunar is much more difficult on HM this update?? Haven't attempted HM yet this patch myself.