Forced to double slot pets and why?

lunalitetempler

I'm trying to think why we have to double slot pets? Why can't they just be active automatically when you are on the bar with the pet? Why would that be op? I don't think it would?

I wanted to heal as a sorc but double slotting the pet is just a ball ache and a wasted slot. I wanted to play warden Stam build with bear but having to double slot it just makes me not want to make one.

WalksonGraves

Because everyone would backbar pets?
You're essentially giving them 2 free skills at that point.

Destyran

Because sorcs pull 60k+ dps and dont need a extra damage slot

lunalitetempler

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Because everyone would backbar pets?
You're essentially giving them 2 free skills at that point.

I don't understand what you mean? Say if I wanted to use the sorc pet like bol yeah? Why can't I back bar it? Why is it any different from a templer back barring bol? I guess what I mean is the pet ability and the active pet should only be active whilst you on the pet bar, I don't mean back bar it press it and it be active on both bars.

Nestor

Would be hugely OP for the first point.Otherwise, people would load up one bar with all the constant effects, then just bar swap and maintain those effects. One reason besides the obvious is the cost for Pets is incurred on the cast, so this would give someone a huge edge in resource pools. No, I am not talking about the secondary pet effect, Pets do things all on their own just for existing.

For the second, it comes down to game mechanics. "Permanent", as in not on a timer, effects only last as long as the skill is slotted, when you swap bars to the one that does not have the skill, the effect goes away. This applies to other game effects as well, like Inner Light for example. Effects that go across Bars are timed buffs, those go away until cast again.

lunalitetempler

Destyran wrote: »

Because sorcs pull 60k+ dps and dont need a extra damage slot

I'm talking about utility not DMG. I'm also talking about the warden bear too.

idk

I heal on Sorcs and haven't found it to be an issue having the pet on both bars. I also dps on the same sorcs and run the pet build and again, its not an issue.

Looking forward to the Warden.

lunalitetempler

Nvm I don't think people understand what I mean or I'm not explaining it properly.

Nifty2g

No one is mentioning how Warden gets this luxury, fascinating

Just make every pet function like the Warden's Netch. Make it so you have to re-summon it

lunalitetempler

Nifty2g wrote: »

No one is mentioning how Warden gets this luxury, fascinating

Omg! Your so right, but hang on what about the bear?

Feanor

@WalksonGraves

If you have to slot it it's not "free". It's still taking up two slots then. Also the basic damage is nothing to write home about, it's the familiar pulse combined with daedric prey that makes it strong. Both the pulse and daedric prey cost Magicka. So again it's not "free". Toggles are just bad design in a game with only 10 skill slots.

Maybe you should stay on commenting about NB tanking in end game raids and leave Sorc threads alone.

WalksonGraves

lunalitetempler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Because everyone would backbar pets?
You're essentially giving them 2 free skills at that point.

I don't understand what you mean? Say if I wanted to use the sorc pet like bol yeah? Why can't I back bar it? Why is it any different from a templer back barring bol? I guess what I mean is the pet ability and the active pet should only be active whilst you on the pet bar, I don't mean back bar it press it and it be active on both bars.

Can you cast bol once and have it active until you log out?

Pets are a big part of the reason sorcs are top dps, you're calling for a game breaking buff for an already overpowered class.

WalksonGraves

Feanor wrote: »

@WalksonGraves

If you have to slot it it's not "free". It's still taking up two slots then. Also the basic damage is nothing to write home about, it's the familiar pulse combined with daedric prey that makes it strong. Both the pulse and daedric prey cost Magicka. So again it's not "free". Toggles are just bad design in a game with only 10 skill slots.

Maybe you should stay on commenting about NB tanking in end game raids and leave Sorc threads alone.

Maybe try reading first next time. He wants pets to not despawn when bar switching, I'm talking about his idea. Even without access to pet skills you're still getting 10% magika without a frontbar slot.

lunalitetempler

WalksonGraves wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Because everyone would backbar pets?
You're essentially giving them 2 free skills at that point.

I don't understand what you mean? Say if I wanted to use the sorc pet like bol yeah? Why can't I back bar it? Why is it any different from a templer back barring bol? I guess what I mean is the pet ability and the active pet should only be active whilst you on the pet bar, I don't mean back bar it press it and it be active on both bars.

Can you cast bol once and have it active until you log out?

Pets are a big part of the reason sorcs are top dps, you're calling for a game breaking buff for an already overpowered class.

No....I mean using the pet as bol on back bar yes? You have to swap to use it just as if you did with bol. The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

lunalitetempler

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@WalksonGraves

If you have to slot it it's not "free". It's still taking up two slots then. Also the basic damage is nothing to write home about, it's the familiar pulse combined with daedric prey that makes it strong. Both the pulse and daedric prey cost Magicka. So again it's not "free". Toggles are just bad design in a game with only 10 skill slots.

Maybe you should stay on commenting about NB tanking in end game raids and leave Sorc threads alone.

Maybe try reading first next time. He wants pets to not despawn when bar switching, I'm talking about his idea. Even without access to pet skills you're still getting 10% magika without a frontbar slot.

I don't mean that, the pet can we spawn!

WalksonGraves

lunalitetempler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Because everyone would backbar pets?
You're essentially giving them 2 free skills at that point.

I don't understand what you mean? Say if I wanted to use the sorc pet like bol yeah? Why can't I back bar it? Why is it any different from a templer back barring bol? I guess what I mean is the pet ability and the active pet should only be active whilst you on the pet bar, I don't mean back bar it press it and it be active on both bars.

Can you cast bol once and have it active until you log out?

Pets are a big part of the reason sorcs are top dps, you're calling for a game breaking buff for an already overpowered class.

No....I mean using the pet as bol on back bar yes? You have to swap to use it just as if you did with bol. The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

Ok I misunderstood, but what exactly are you asking for then because any other interpretation of your op makes no sense.

Asardes

Because they are a toggle ability. Having an ability who has to be cast once, and thereafter cost nothing to maintain would simply be to unbalanced. Unless the pet is dead or you rezone and it disappears having to be summoned again, it costs nothing. Same for bound aegis/armament that gives a significant stat boost and resistance. Moreover, sorcerers actually have a 3rd overload bar that only takes an ultimate slot to use. The class is already pretty strong and removing the double (and with overload triple) slot requirement will make the class downright broken, in the positive sense. It's already strongly unbalanced for other reasons.

lunalitetempler

Asardes wrote: »

Because they are a toggle ability. Having an ability who has to be cast once, and thereafter cost nothing to maintain would simply be to unbalanced. Unless the pet is dead or you rezone and it disappears having to be summoned again, it costs nothing. Same for bound aegis/armament that gives a significant stat boost and resistance. Moreover, sorcerers actually have a 3rd overload bar that only takes an ultimate slot to use. The class is already pretty strong and removing the double (and with overload triple) slot requirement will make the class downright broken, in the positive sense. It's already strongly unbalanced for other reasons.

But the warden pets do exactly that? I see what your saying, OK I get that. But then why are warden pets an exception? Shouldn't they be a toggle?

QuebraRegra

I don't play a SORC, yes they are not balanced... we all know this.

That said, I don't like the fact they have to double slot pets (reduces build diversity... the damn bars are severely limited as it is). My NB, can single slot shade and have it remain when I switch bars. Obviously my summoned shade pales in comparison to a real pet.

More a commentary on the limits of the skill bars in general... why can't ESO adopt a system like other MMOs that have gone to console and use configurations to enact non-targeted powers? Look at STO, we can pre-set conditions on which powers will automatically activate. I could see a setting "always summon pet when at 70% or greater magicka", or "summon pet when less then 50% health", etc.

I want to see MORE build diversity, more variation in combat.

Nestor

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

lunalitetempler

Nestor wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

I still don't understand how its different from a warden using there pets. I'm not trying to play dumb I actually don't get why sorc pets can't work just like the warden pets. I just assume the sorc pets started out as a toggle then here is the warden...and now there is this confusion as to why sorc pets have to be a toggle ?

Kiralyn2000

Nestor wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

That's actually the point he's trying to make.

What he'd like is to be able to cast Pet on Bar B, and have it disappear/reappear automatically when he switches back and forth between bars. To not have it active when he switches to the other bar, but to have it automatically reappear (without having to cast it again) when he goes back to the pet bar.

lunalitetempler

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

That's actually the point he's trying to make.

What he'd like is to be able to cast Pet on Bar B, and have it disappear/reappear automatically when he switches back and forth between bars. To not have it active when he switches to the other bar, but to have it automatically reappear (without having to cast it again) when he goes back to the pet bar.

Yes! Lol

Feanor

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@WalksonGraves

If you have to slot it it's not "free". It's still taking up two slots then. Also the basic damage is nothing to write home about, it's the familiar pulse combined with daedric prey that makes it strong. Both the pulse and daedric prey cost Magicka. So again it's not "free". Toggles are just bad design in a game with only 10 skill slots.

Maybe you should stay on commenting about NB tanking in end game raids and leave Sorc threads alone.

Maybe try reading first next time. He wants pets to not despawn when bar switching, I'm talking about his idea. Even without access to pet skills you're still getting 10% magika without a frontbar slot.

Wrong. You get regen on the bar it's slotted. Which NBs get as a class passive. It would not be OP at all if pets were no toggles. Maybe if you're concerned tone down the passive effect and increase the on cast effects. Done. Everyone is happy.

BigBragg

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

I still don't understand how its different from a warden using there pets. I'm not trying to play dumb I actually don't get why sorc pets can't work just like the warden pets. I just assume the sorc pets started out as a toggle then here is the warden...and now there is this confusion as to why sorc pets have to be a toggle ?

The only Warden pet that stays out the way Sorc pets do is the bear ultimate. That still must be double barred. The netch has a time limit, and the others in Animal Companions are skills and not true pets.

lunalitetempler

BigBragg wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

The pet can despawn when you swap bars yes? I don't mean the pet should be active all the time...I don't know what's so hard to understand what I'm talking about xD

I understand what your saying now and its a reasonable request, on the surface.

The issue would come down to Resource Management.

Pets are not cheap to cast, so what if I was swapping to my pet bar to cast another skill that I only had enough magic to do do? My Pets would auto spawn and use up those resources. Also, there is a timer delay, rather animation delay, so that if I was swapping to the pet bar, I would be delayed if wanting to use one specific skill as I am sure the Auto would take precedence. Also, I have swapped to a bar and swapped back many times for many different reason, none of which are conducive to a good fight strategy, more not knowing what bar I am on. So, I would use up a lot of magic just swapping bars.

I still don't understand how its different from a warden using there pets. I'm not trying to play dumb I actually don't get why sorc pets can't work just like the warden pets. I just assume the sorc pets started out as a toggle then here is the warden...and now there is this confusion as to why sorc pets have to be a toggle ?

The only Warden pet that stays out the way Sorc pets do is the bear ultimate. That still must be double barred. The netch has a time limit, and the others in Animal Companions are skills and not true pets.[/quotbar then de
But you can click the pet and get the buff, bar swap and the buff still be active yes? So why can't I use sorc pet just for the bol? And have it spawn only on that bar then we spawn when I swap away.

Tasear

I am going to simply support this though I rather have option to turn them off or something till they can live through death moments in vhrc and vMOl.

Trying to imagine what I would actually do if it didn't take up 3 slots. Maybe mage light, crushing shock, propelling siege shield. It's okay how it is but if they go ahead with pet nerfs they should probably fix a few things while they are at it.

Sosderosii

They could at least be set inactive, but still take damage when you change ability bars and they aren't there.

Or better yet, have a timer of 5 seconds let's say, after which they become disobedient and might as well attack the summoner.
Just like those NPC summoners lol.

Nestor

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

That's actually the point he's trying to make.

What he'd like is to be able to cast Pet on Bar B, and have it disappear/reappear automatically when he switches back and forth between bars. To not have it active when he switches to the other bar, but to have it automatically reappear (without having to cast it again) when he goes back to the pet bar.

I would never use magic again to summon pets. I would run around on my non pet bar, swap to my pet bar and woila, there be Pets.

Pets are powerful, lets not add an Easy Button to resource management with Pets too.

BigBragg

@lunalitetempler

Because the Netch has a 24 second window of being up, versus up until killed or indefinitely. On top of that sorc pets have passive damage and skills that can be activated. Sorcs also have access to a third bar with the Overload bar, something no other class can do. They are solid balance choices to me, and with the bear needing to be double barred they are uniformly standard across class divides.

AlnilamE

The Warden Netch lasts for 24-27 seconds. So they are similar to the NB shades that last for 15-18 seconds.

Since they are on a timer, they can be single-barred. If they were a toggle, they'd have to be double slotted like the sorc pets.

Are you suggesting they should be on a timer as well?

And as Nestor pointed out, if they changed it to work the way you suggest, what would happen to the cast time? Would it override whatever skill you actually wanted to cast from your back bar?

And where would the pet reappear? Right next to you? At the location where it despawned when you switched bars last? Would there ever actually be a cast cost for the pet or would they just show up for free every time they are on the front bar?