71K+ DPS Magicka Sorcerer PvE build

Juhasow

Vaoh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Daedric Tomb mines are putting out insane Damage when placed very well and if the rotation is followed smartly. I'd say that they can be safely relied on in Morrowind.

It has already been seen working flawlessly and especially after they made this morph triangle-shaped. For most Sorcs I saw using it in vMOL it worked really fine (maybe except the first boss).

Juhasow wrote: »

Hmm so now I just need to lock boss on trial in tight space similar as You locked that skeletons to be damaged by all 3 mines

Minor movement actually helps activating the mines, especially if 1-2 of them were missed hits. And obviously when all of them were triggered before full rotation recast - no DPS was lost.

If You place them and wait then yes. If You spam them multiple times in rotation You always miss atleast 1 in each repetition draining out of magicka like hell and forcing to heavy attack later. Especially useless rotation in next update.

Like I already said, you will still be able to use this build next patch and sustain. You will just have a few less barrages of 5x Daedric Tombs and more Heavy Attack+Daedric Tomb+Heavy Attack rotations.

CPs will need some adjustment and perhaps Master Architect+Willpower deals more DPS as well. Generally it'll work the same despite the sustain changes.

Honestly I dont see that but still it was nice to have a chance to test this on skeleton and see ~50k DPS . Nice for fun but I doubt that will be used commonly in trials. Still I can be wrong.

dpencil1

Thanks for the OP @Vaoh
It's an interesting strategy that I wasn't aware of. So at least one person benefitted from your guide

LZH

Tested this on the first boss of Hel Ra today. It's extremely difficult to even land 2 mines on Ra Kotu which seems to have one of the largest hit boxes in the game. If he even moves from getting knocked back after his heavy cleave, you have to re-position where you are putting your mines.

I'm not sure this will work in fights with any kind of movement. A single mine does slightly more than a single force pulse, but the magicka cost is 2.5X as much. Meaning that you will actually be using more resources to land mines than you will to cast the equivalent amount of force pulses (unless you can find a boss where all 3 will land).


This setup is super unique, but it will probably just be reserved for a few niche cases (apparently people are using it on MagSorc in vMA for burst).

idk

I have near 70k with the earlier rotations you mentioned. The standard rotations that are used in vtrials.

Edit: this included adds in the boss fight but that is what most people post unless they are on target dummy.

Alpheu5

GilGalad wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

The Idea of using mines in trials has been around for a long time, maybe even before console launch. Since the dmg of the mines is so high and straight dps is not their purpose they made trial bosses immune to more than one hit, but I don't remember the cooldown.
Im pretty sure it is still like that, but feel free to test it!

As long as only one mine hits you won't deal much more DPS than the current meta builds, but you can set records for magicka drain per second...

I haven't noticed any cooldown like that, though I'd agree it would make sense if they implemented one

The DPS boost is worth the Magicka drain+heavy attacks. It results in a large net DPS boost from the sheer damage caused by hitting 2-3 of those mines per cast on a target. Also it's nice because you can totally melt troublesome adds like Sun Eaters.

As far as I remember, people used mines to drain magicka when Santum came out. I'm not sure if the bosses consumed all mines but did only get damaged by one, or if they activated only one. I think they consumed all when the hitbox was big enough, but took limited dmg. If that's still the case the use of mines is pointless, so someone should go out and test it...

I already did test it results showed all mines hitting as they would on the target skeleton from my run today through AA.

Daedric Tomb is a bit wierd. Even though it is instacast, you can cast this skill quicker than most any other skill. It doesn't follow the GCD correctly. Spamming them as fast as possible causes either one or zero mines to explode. Luckily weaving in Heavy/Light Attacks makes it a non-issue.

All mines hitting does not mean all mines doing dmg. Unfortunately you don't have combat metrics on console to verify if they all dealt dmg or just exploded.

One of the patches shortly after the Imperial City launched fixed an issue where large enemies (Daedroth, Harvesters, Ogrim, etc.) wouldn't take damage from multiple mines when they ran over them.

I also use Daedric Tomb in PvP all the time and can say without a doubt that you can land 2 of the mines simultaneously on players with careful aim.

Izaki

Apherius wrote: »

@Vaoh are you sure that this build not only work when there is a wall behind the skeleton ? because when you put deadric tomb in front of a wall they are less dismissed.

You can get 2 to hit the target skeleton even if you don't have a wall, you just have to aim the circle way in front of the target (it has a very strange targetting system). The real question is (and I'll test it again tonight in vHOF) if the bosses are able to eat more than 1 mine at a time.

But the only way to sustain a build that has Daedric Tomb in it, is to heavy attack for DAYs. Even if you can't Tomb just once per 8 seconds, as if it were another DoT, it still does 7k DPS, when the skeleton is against a wall (all 3 mines hit). When its not against the wall (only 2 mines hit), its around 4-5k DPS. So its bloody strong.

But Necro isn't a good choice for a build that uses Mines as a spammable due to the fact that mines scale badly with max magicka and really well with spell damage. So Julianos would give you better results on live.

Vaoh

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

@Vaoh are you sure that this build not only work when there is a wall behind the skeleton ? because when you put deadric tomb in front of a wall they are less dismissed.

You can get 2 to hit the target skeleton even if you don't have a wall, you just have to aim the circle way in front of the target (it has a very strange targetting system). The real question is (and I'll test it again tonight in vHOF) if the bosses are able to eat more than 1 mine at a time.

But the only way to sustain a build that has Daedric Tomb in it, is to heavy attack for DAYs. Even if you can't Tomb just once per 8 seconds, as if it were another DoT, it still does 7k DPS, when the skeleton is against a wall (all 3 mines hit). When its not against the wall (only 2 mines hit), its around 4-5k DPS. So its bloody strong.

But Necro isn't a good choice for a build that uses Mines as a spammable due to the fact that mines scale badly with max magicka and really well with spell damage. So Julianos would give you better results on live.

I forgot about their unusually high spell damage scaling!

Looks like this specific build can really benefit more from Julianos or BSW then. Good to know!

max_only

Vaoh wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I can see you are trying best to get sorcerer nerf with Morrowind release!

Believe me nerf to DPS is not issue in PVE for class balance, they should simply buff other classes!

I wish man!

Judging by ZOS actions so far, the "DPS Expectation" so to speak is being set at the level of Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars. Mag NBs were buffed to their general level of DPS as a result.

By this same concept Magicka Sorcerer needs nerfs, and Mag Warden needs big buffs. This is why they've confirmed a Volatile Familiar nerf and the goal of making Mag Warden viable last ESO Live.

Not gonna work out for Mag Sorcs.... might as well provide more incentive for nerfs

when and how are mag nbs buffed?

Vaoh

max_only wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I can see you are trying best to get sorcerer nerf with Morrowind release!

Believe me nerf to DPS is not issue in PVE for class balance, they should simply buff other classes!

I wish man!

Judging by ZOS actions so far, the "DPS Expectation" so to speak is being set at the level of Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars. Mag NBs were buffed to their general level of DPS as a result.

By this same concept Magicka Sorcerer needs nerfs, and Mag Warden needs big buffs. This is why they've confirmed a Volatile Familiar nerf and the goal of making Mag Warden viable last ESO Live.

Not gonna work out for Mag Sorcs.... might as well provide more incentive for nerfs

when and how are mag nbs buffed?

Mag NB is pulling around the same DPS on target skeletons as Magicka DKs Magicka Templars now in Morrowind.

They are also getting a nice buff to Grim Focus next PTS Patch that should really solidify them as viable.

Avran_Sylt

Dayum. a 10K base damage non-execute ability that has the potential to deal 30K base damage with proper positioning? Well, come the morrowind sustain changes I don't think it'll be viable to run given the high cost and lack of % cost reduction from CP and the additional cut from the light armor % cost reduction.

Marabornwingrion

Thanks a lot for this build, I'll try it out!
Also, your animation cancel is strong, unfortunately my fingers are not so fast

Waffennacht

Hey OP, you have gold weapons, both trial and vMA, you have gold jewellery, you have trial gear and the monster sets.

What exactly is rewarding to you now? What goal is there to achieve?

With you having to beat the content to get the gear... To beat the content... What's left?

Vaoh

Astrid_V wrote: »

Thanks a lot for this build, I'll try it out!
Also, your animation cancel is strong, unfortunately my fingers are not so fast

You dont actually have to animation cancel with block to do this. You'll get the same result by casting the skill and timing light attacks well, though it may become tricky to follow your character sometimes.

I mainly animation cancelled everything so it was really easy to see each attack as well as keep track of what's happening. Animations can get messed up when casting stuff too fast

Vaoh

Waffennacht wrote: »

Hey OP, you have gold weapons, both trial and vMA, you have gold jewellery, you have trial gear and the monster sets.

What exactly is rewarding to you now? What goal is there to achieve?

With you having to beat the content to get the gear... To beat the content... What's left?

To have fun ofc!

Everyone says we should quit when we get all of the "BiS" gear. It's an argument I disagree with.

I would argue the opposite because once I have the gear I want, I can enjoy the game in other ways besides grinding gear.

BuddyAces

Vaoh, I hope the haters aren't discouraging you. Seriously people, the fella left a build on the forums to let other folks know what's up. That's all. Yall need a beer and some macaroni and cheese or somethin.

Izaki

BuddyAces wrote: »

Vaoh, I hope the haters aren't discouraging you. Seriously people, the fella left a build on the forums to let other folks know what's up. That's all. Yall need a beer and some macaroni and cheese or somethin.

^ I'll take a beer and some macaroni cheese for sure (and I'm not hatin').

ArchMikem

gethemshauna wrote: »

Good job, thats such a nice build, but mines are already popular nowadays, not sure that whole guide is necessary, we everyone know what magsorc can actually do.

DO we know what they can do? Yeah. Do we know how they can do it? I certainly don't, or my own MagSorc would be that good. Try not to speak for everyone okay?

BuddyAces

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Vaoh, I hope the haters aren't discouraging you. Seriously people, the fella left a build on the forums to let other folks know what's up. That's all. Yall need a beer and some macaroni and cheese or somethin.

^ I'll take a beer and some macaroni cheese for sure (and I'm not hatin').

Well I have beer and the hotdogs are goin on the grill in like 10 mins. The mac and cheese is missing though... WTB.

Izaki

Vaoh wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

@Vaoh are you sure that this build not only work when there is a wall behind the skeleton ? because when you put deadric tomb in front of a wall they are less dismissed.

You can get 2 to hit the target skeleton even if you don't have a wall, you just have to aim the circle way in front of the target (it has a very strange targetting system). The real question is (and I'll test it again tonight in vHOF) if the bosses are able to eat more than 1 mine at a time.

But the only way to sustain a build that has Daedric Tomb in it, is to heavy attack for DAYs. Even if you can't Tomb just once per 8 seconds, as if it were another DoT, it still does 7k DPS, when the skeleton is against a wall (all 3 mines hit). When its not against the wall (only 2 mines hit), its around 4-5k DPS. So its bloody strong.

But Necro isn't a good choice for a build that uses Mines as a spammable due to the fact that mines scale badly with max magicka and really well with spell damage. So Julianos would give you better results on live.

I forgot about their unusually high spell damage scaling!

Looks like this specific build can really benefit more from Julianos or BSW then. Good to know!

Yeah I doubt that BSW is an option, due to the fact that Tomb isn't fire damage, which leaves only Blockade to proc it, and that just isn't enough. At this point your only options are Scathing Mage (for live it could work extremely well with this build) and Julianos. Although, for Morrowind Necro is the better option simply because it gives you sustain due to the higher mag pool and you aren't going to be spamming a 5.5k cost skill anyway, but rather use it as an extra "DoT" and at this point, Necro would just be better flat out.

Leafwalker

@Vaoh , some have complained about too much information or details, but personally, I appreciate it. Many of us that read the forums are noobs, and the detailed explanations help us to more quickly improve our understanding of the game mechanics and thus become better players (PvE) and teammates (PvP). Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Gilvoth

71K+ DPS on a magicka sorcerer, [noted]

Vaoh

BuddyAces wrote: »

Vaoh, I hope the haters aren't discouraging you. Seriously people, the fella left a build on the forums to let other folks know what's up. That's all. Yall need a beer and some macaroni and cheese or somethin.

Leafwalker wrote: »

Vaoh , some have complained about too much information or details, but personally, I appreciate it. Many of us that read the forums are noobs, and the detailed explanations help us to more quickly improve our understanding of the game mechanics and thus become better players (PvE) and teammates (PvP). Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Ty both!

This is the very reason I wrote everything out. Clarification and details are key because not everyone is super "elite" or part of the "0.1%" of players. The whole guide is enough to really help people understand why everything works out.

Honestly, as long as I legitimately helped even one single person out, what I have done here was successful. The haters.... my response to them is a giant LOL

If I even slightly cared for the opinions of haters, I would have quit ESO very quickly. I welcome criticism, but give zero attention to trolls/haters. This is probably why I have managed to do the amazing things I have done in this game and is a big part of why I'm known in-game as such a nice dude who is associated with literally zero drama (extremely rare amongst endgame PvEers).

Vaoh

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

@Vaoh are you sure that this build not only work when there is a wall behind the skeleton ? because when you put deadric tomb in front of a wall they are less dismissed.

You can get 2 to hit the target skeleton even if you don't have a wall, you just have to aim the circle way in front of the target (it has a very strange targetting system). The real question is (and I'll test it again tonight in vHOF) if the bosses are able to eat more than 1 mine at a time.

But the only way to sustain a build that has Daedric Tomb in it, is to heavy attack for DAYs. Even if you can't Tomb just once per 8 seconds, as if it were another DoT, it still does 7k DPS, when the skeleton is against a wall (all 3 mines hit). When its not against the wall (only 2 mines hit), its around 4-5k DPS. So its bloody strong.

But Necro isn't a good choice for a build that uses Mines as a spammable due to the fact that mines scale badly with max magicka and really well with spell damage. So Julianos would give you better results on live.

I forgot about their unusually high spell damage scaling!

Looks like this specific build can really benefit more from Julianos or BSW then. Good to know!

Yeah I doubt that BSW is an option, due to the fact that Tomb isn't fire damage, which leaves only Blockade to proc it, and that just isn't enough. At this point your only options are Scathing Mage (for live it could work extremely well with this build) and Julianos. Although, for Morrowind Necro is the better option simply because it gives you sustain due to the higher mag pool and you aren't going to be spamming a 5.5k cost skill anyway, but rather use it as an extra "DoT" and at this point, Necro would just be better flat out.

Well those moments where we spam 5x Daedric Tomb could be saved for when Burning Spellweave is procced. Ilambris helps proc it too but I know what you mean. It might not be worth it after the 5% proc chance nerf. Master Architect seems like the best imo.

I have some clever ideas around these Major Slayer sets that could allow a certain raid setup to be dominant in endgame PvE..... don't want to say anything about that until I can test though. It's an amazing set!

dpencil1

Apherius wrote: »

Master Architect seems like the best imo.

I have some clever ideas around these Major Slayer sets that could allow a certain raid setup to be dominant in endgame PvE..... don't want to say anything about that until I can test though. It's an amazing set!

Yeah, it seems like the new trials sets might play well into the idea of burn phases and sustain phases that Rich mentioned. Get the group up on resources, coordinate warhorn with people activiating Major Slayer and do massive burn.

SublimeSparo

dpencil1 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Master Architect seems like the best imo.

I have some clever ideas around these Major Slayer sets that could allow a certain raid setup to be dominant in endgame PvE..... don't want to say anything about that until I can test though. It's an amazing set!

Yeah, it seems like the new trials sets might play well into the idea of burn phases and sustain phases that Rich mentioned. Get the group up on resources, coordinate warhorn with people activiating Major Slayer and do massive burn.

Yea then due to rng the tanks, healers and scamps all get the msjor slayer buffs

Ep1kMalware

That's cool and all but Infeel like this is a troll thread.

1. most guildw will not accept dps parse of you casting lightning wall, healers provide that.
2. Most groups will want you to backbar inferno, because magdk.
3. Most solid performing dps will hit 65-70k in trials, did you just add that to the title for clickbaitery?

I know you're a very good player vaoh but 70k from a magsorc (my stamplar is about 61k full raid buffs, at least atm) won't impress alot of hardcore raiders and double barring lightning staff will be a net dps loss in an actual raid. (Which is why lightning wall isn't allowed for dps test)

JamieAubrey

Currently working on levelling a pet build, Do I NEED the Maelstrom Staff ? I'm not gambling with RNGesus and the fact I can't do vMA can I switch this out and miss out on the extra Wall of Flame damage ?

aLi3nZ

Thank you for this. Just need grind out moondancer. Although considering just using twighlight when morrowind comes

SnubbS

53k Solo DPS. Wtf.

I thought my 39k was decent—anddddd that's why I'm not a PvE player. lmao

andreasranasen

Why y'all hating on Demi God @Vaoh . Bow down!