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71K+ DPS Magicka Sorcerer PvE build
Vaoh
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If you are an endgame PvEer who likes to deal damage, chances are you have a Magicka Sorcerer, and you are well aware your class spec currently deals the highest DPS of them all. After a bunch of theorycrafting, I have discovered a way to enhance their DPS even further from what we have previously seen. Magicka Sorcerers are capable of pulling much higher damage than they currently do, and it's mostly due to a tweak to their skill set and rotation.
It is not an easy play style, but if you enjoy 53K solo DPS parses and 70K+ DPS when raid buffed then you are in luck! On top of dealing higher overall DPS, this build has the potential to deal extraordinary burst damage when needed that will skyrocket your DPS to melt certain adds excessively fast (Sun Eaters, Reflections, etc).
It is very similar to the current meta gear setup, but mainly utilizes a different skill setup and rotation.
Even if you are a very good player you will easily learn a lot from this thread and should consider trying out this build:
Gear and Skill Setup
Rotation
Champion Points:
DPS Parses/Build Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjTGYetGYs
Build/Stats: 00:00 - 00:43
Solo Test 1: 00:44 - 02:15
Solo Test 2: 02:16 - 03:37
Solo Test 3: 03:38 - 04:52
Raid Buffed Test: 04:53 - 06:40
DPS Parse Data
- Solo -
• A solo DPS parse means that no one else is allowed to help me in any way whatsoever
I tested two different ways:
• Test 1 used my exact raid setup. No Elemental Drain or Blockade of Storms is applied.
• Test 2 included Elemental Drain being casted every other rotation instead of a Daedric Tomb. Elemental Drain replaced Empowered Ward on my skill bar for the sake of more accurate DPS test results.
• Test 3 was the same as Test 2, but also included the addition of a backbar Maelstrom Lightning Staff instead of a backbar Maelstrom Inferno Staff. This was meant to get as much DPS as possible on my own (Exploiter CP passive)
- Raid Buffed -
• These tests include the use of raid buffs that I would receive when running Veteran Trials. I will run my normal setup with the slight modifications of removing my shield in order to double-bar Inner Light. My allies will provide buffs.
• Raid-Buffed Test will provide me with 3 friends who will supply raid buffs to me. These buffs are Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Spell Power Cure, Stalwart Guard (Minor Force), Aggressive Warhorn, Combat Prayer, Roar of Alkosh, Crusher, Powerful Assault, and Worm's Raiment
Averaged DPS
Solo Test 1: 39688.7 DPS
Solo Test 2: 45315.4 DPS
Solo Test 3: 51903.8 DPS
Raid-Buffed Test: 71.1K
- Judging by mistakes made as well as the use of Heavy attacks, it would be highly feasible with more orb synergies (unlimited Magicka) and a perfect rotation to reach around 76K DPS in the Raid-Buffed test.
Magicka Sorcerers are probably wondering right now - Is this actually viable in trials? The answer is simple. Yes, it is, but you will not be able to fully benefit from this damage all of the time.
***However, it is extremely difficult to use.***
You will need to practice casting Daedric Tomb before you consistently hit enemies with at least 2 mines per cast (very difficult). Only when you master the rotation, manage resources well, and land 2-3 mines per cast on enemies will you notice a significant DPS increase. This build is particularly strong versus Vet trial bosses because they tend to stand still a lot and make this process easier (stationary targets become almost easy to consistently hit 3x with practice). It can be a good strategy when fighting a boss to hold off on casting 5x Daedric Tombs until you know you are perfectly lined up to activate all mines.
Keep in mind that not all targets can be hit by all three mines. You will often only damage these targets with two mines. As long as you land a single mine on the enemy, you will not be loosing DPS from the old rotation. Landing 2-3 mines is where the DPS boost begins to show in single target DPS. You are bound to deal higher AoE damage with this build rather than the current meta build.
This build feels more fun than the current meta Magicka Sorc we are all used to imo, though you may come to hate it due to the difficulty of managing higher DPS than the old build. In Morrowind, only the slightest adjustments (if any) will need to be made to sustain.
Can't say exactly if Magicka Sorcerers will still pull the highest DPS in Morrowind. Either way, they are bound to still be strong. Good luck out there my fellow Magicka Sorcerers!
Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 8:46AM It is not an easy play style, but if you enjoy 53K solo DPS parses and 70K+ DPS when raid buffed then you are in luck! On top of dealing higher overall DPS, this build has the potential to deal extraordinary burst damage when needed that will skyrocket your DPS to melt certain adds excessively fast (Sun Eaters, Reflections, etc).
It is very similar to the current meta gear setup, but mainly utilizes a different skill setup and rotation.
Even if you are a very good player you will easily learn a lot from this thread and should consider trying out this build:
Gear and Skill Setup
Gear Setup
• Ilambris (1 heavy helm, 1 medium shoulder)
• Necropotence (5 light body pieces)
• Moondancer (3 jewelry, 1 lightning staff)
• Maelstrom Staff (1 inferno staff)
(nothing new)
- Notes -
- Divines traits/Max Magicka glyphs on all armor
- Arcane traits/Spell Damage glyphs on all jewelry
- Sharpened trait on both staves, Spell damage enchant on the frontbar (Moondancer) staff
- Use The Thief mundus stone
- All 64 attribute points into Magicka
- Stage 4 Vampirism is helpful, though not required
- Maximum Health+Maximum Magicka food is best
- Infallible Mage (aka Infallible Aether aka IA) is an almost equal replacement for Moondancer. Master Architect (Morrowind set) has the exact same 2/3/4-piece bonuses as Moondancer.
- In Morrowind, it *might* be better to run 2x Ilambris, 5x Master Architect, 3x Willpower, and then 1x Maelstrom Inferno and 1x Maelstrom Lightning staff/Random Lightning Staff. I cannot confirm whether this is true as I do not have access to the Morrowind PTS.... perks of being a PS4 player
It is also worth noting that Precise may be stronger than Sharpened, but it all depends on just much the Champion System has changed. I cannot test on PTS to confirm.
Skill Setup
Frontbar: Moondancer Lighting Staff
1. Bound Aegis
2. Conjured Ward (either morph)
3. Summon Volatile Familiar
4. Daedric Tomb
5. Inner Light
Ult. Elemental Rage / Shooting Star
Backbar: Maelstrom Lighting Staff
1. Bound Aegis
2. Lightning Splash
3. Summon Volatile Familiar
4. Daedric Prey
5. Blockade of Fire
Ult. Elemental Rage / Shooting Star
- Notes -
- Conjured Ward is more useful than Harness Magicka since you'll likely never have sustain issues anyway. It provides a small boost to your Spell Damage ("Expert Mage" Sorcerer passive). With that said, you can certainly use Harness Magicka if you want to.
- Hardened Ward is stronger. Empowered Ward buffs your whole group with slightly more Magicka Regeneration (Wardens will do this in Morrowind) and has a slightly cheaper cost with a much longer duration. It is up to preference which you take.
- Most of the time, people slot Shooting Star on the frontbar and Elemental Rage on the backbar. It's up to preference which way you set yourself up. More DPS will probably come out of running it the usual way since Shooting Star is cast a lot and it slightly buffs frontier DPS, though it is nice to switch it up imo due to the sheer strength of the Lightning version of Elemental Rage.
- If you are confident enough, more DPS is achievable by replacing Daedric Prey with Inner Light, and Conjured Ward with Daedric Prey. You essentially replace your shield to passively deal more extra damage.
• Ilambris (1 heavy helm, 1 medium shoulder)
• Necropotence (5 light body pieces)
• Moondancer (3 jewelry, 1 lightning staff)
• Maelstrom Staff (1 inferno staff)
(nothing new)
- Notes -
- Divines traits/Max Magicka glyphs on all armor
- Arcane traits/Spell Damage glyphs on all jewelry
- Sharpened trait on both staves, Spell damage enchant on the frontbar (Moondancer) staff
- Use The Thief mundus stone
- All 64 attribute points into Magicka
- Stage 4 Vampirism is helpful, though not required
- Maximum Health+Maximum Magicka food is best
- Infallible Mage (aka Infallible Aether aka IA) is an almost equal replacement for Moondancer. Master Architect (Morrowind set) has the exact same 2/3/4-piece bonuses as Moondancer.
- In Morrowind, it *might* be better to run 2x Ilambris, 5x Master Architect, 3x Willpower, and then 1x Maelstrom Inferno and 1x Maelstrom Lightning staff/Random Lightning Staff. I cannot confirm whether this is true as I do not have access to the Morrowind PTS.... perks of being a PS4 player
It is also worth noting that Precise may be stronger than Sharpened, but it all depends on just much the Champion System has changed. I cannot test on PTS to confirm.Skill Setup
Frontbar: Moondancer Lighting Staff
1. Bound Aegis
2. Conjured Ward (either morph)
3. Summon Volatile Familiar
4. Daedric Tomb
5. Inner Light
Ult. Elemental Rage / Shooting Star
Backbar: Maelstrom Lighting Staff
1. Bound Aegis
2. Lightning Splash
3. Summon Volatile Familiar
4. Daedric Prey
5. Blockade of Fire
Ult. Elemental Rage / Shooting Star
- Notes -
- Conjured Ward is more useful than Harness Magicka since you'll likely never have sustain issues anyway. It provides a small boost to your Spell Damage ("Expert Mage" Sorcerer passive). With that said, you can certainly use Harness Magicka if you want to.
- Hardened Ward is stronger. Empowered Ward buffs your whole group with slightly more Magicka Regeneration (Wardens will do this in Morrowind) and has a slightly cheaper cost with a much longer duration. It is up to preference which you take.
- Most of the time, people slot Shooting Star on the frontbar and Elemental Rage on the backbar. It's up to preference which way you set yourself up. More DPS will probably come out of running it the usual way since Shooting Star is cast a lot and it slightly buffs frontier DPS, though it is nice to switch it up imo due to the sheer strength of the Lightning version of Elemental Rage.
- If you are confident enough, more DPS is achievable by replacing Daedric Prey with Inner Light, and Conjured Ward with Daedric Prey. You essentially replace your shield to passively deal more extra damage.
Rotation
Current Magicka Sorcerer Max DPS rotation
The meta Magicka Sorcerer rotation to get the highest damage currently goes like this:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Daedric Prey -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> 4x Force Pulse/Crystal Fragment proc/Mages' Wrath -> Repeat
The *better* rotation I have used along with a small fraction of the stronger Magicka Sorcerer DPS players goes like this:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey -> 5x Force Pulse/Crystal Fragment proc/Mages' Wrath -> Repeat
The New (similar) Rotation
This new rotation is very similar to the "better" rotation, but now includes two parts - a sustain portion and an immense damage portion:
Sustain:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> Heavy Lightning Attack -> Daedric Tomb -> Heavy Lightning Attack+Bar Swap-> Repeat
OR
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> 2x Heavy Lightning Attack -> Daedric Tomb+Bar Swap-> Repeat
OR
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> Daedric Tomb -> Heavy Lightning Attack -> Heavy Lightning Attack+Bar Swap-> Repeat
Damage:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey -> 5x Daedric Tomb -> Repeat
- Notes -
- The key to making use of this rotation is to know when it is safe to use the "Damage" rotation. It consumes an enormous amount of Magicka, while the "Sustain" rotation will regenerate a small amount of Magicka over the course of its duration. I often wait until I have at or above 50% Maximum Magicka before bombing enemies with the "Damage" rotation.
- In Morrowind, the only difference will be newfound requirement to place 100CPs into Tenacity and maintain a higher threshold of Magicka before casting 5x Daedric Tombs.
- You need to be very precise with your timing to make use of what I labeled the "better" rotation. The new rotation I have created is just as difficult to use.
Why 5x casts after DoTs works out
- When you cast your DoTs (Liquid Lightning+Blockade of Elements+ Volatile Familiar Pulse+Daedric Prey), you are given about 5 seconds to do other stuff on your frontbar before needing to reapply them.
- The meta rotation tells us to cast 4 skills on our frontbar before switching back which is easier and safer. The "better" rotation tells you to cast 5 skills, which is stronger but also more difficult to pull off because you cannot make mistakes (if you do, then you only cast 4 skills after reapplying DoTs on that specific rotation)
- Lightning Staff Heavy Attack last about 1.8-1.9 seconds.
- Instacast skills take like 0.9 seconds to use
- 5x casts = basically 5 seconds after bar swapping
- 2x Lightning Heavy Attacks + 1x skill cast = basically 5 seconds after bar swap
The meta Magicka Sorcerer rotation to get the highest damage currently goes like this:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Daedric Prey -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> 4x Force Pulse/Crystal Fragment proc/Mages' Wrath -> Repeat
The *better* rotation I have used along with a small fraction of the stronger Magicka Sorcerer DPS players goes like this:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey -> 5x Force Pulse/Crystal Fragment proc/Mages' Wrath -> Repeat
The New (similar) Rotation
This new rotation is very similar to the "better" rotation, but now includes two parts - a sustain portion and an immense damage portion:
Sustain:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> Heavy Lightning Attack -> Daedric Tomb -> Heavy Lightning Attack+Bar Swap-> Repeat
OR
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> 2x Heavy Lightning Attack -> Daedric Tomb+Bar Swap-> Repeat
OR
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey+Bar Swap -> Daedric Tomb -> Heavy Lightning Attack -> Heavy Lightning Attack+Bar Swap-> Repeat
Damage:
• Liquid Lightning -> Blockade of Fire -> Volatile Familiar Pulse -> Daedric Prey -> 5x Daedric Tomb -> Repeat
- Notes -
- The key to making use of this rotation is to know when it is safe to use the "Damage" rotation. It consumes an enormous amount of Magicka, while the "Sustain" rotation will regenerate a small amount of Magicka over the course of its duration. I often wait until I have at or above 50% Maximum Magicka before bombing enemies with the "Damage" rotation.
- In Morrowind, the only difference will be newfound requirement to place 100CPs into Tenacity and maintain a higher threshold of Magicka before casting 5x Daedric Tombs.
- You need to be very precise with your timing to make use of what I labeled the "better" rotation. The new rotation I have created is just as difficult to use.
Why 5x casts after DoTs works out
- When you cast your DoTs (Liquid Lightning+Blockade of Elements+ Volatile Familiar Pulse+Daedric Prey), you are given about 5 seconds to do other stuff on your frontbar before needing to reapply them.
- The meta rotation tells us to cast 4 skills on our frontbar before switching back which is easier and safer. The "better" rotation tells you to cast 5 skills, which is stronger but also more difficult to pull off because you cannot make mistakes (if you do, then you only cast 4 skills after reapplying DoTs on that specific rotation)
- Lightning Staff Heavy Attack last about 1.8-1.9 seconds.
- Instacast skills take like 0.9 seconds to use
- 5x casts = basically 5 seconds after bar swapping
- 2x Lightning Heavy Attacks + 1x skill cast = basically 5 seconds after bar swap
Champion Points:
Homestead
Blue
• Elfborn - 24
• Elemental Expert - 100
• Staff Expert - 1
• Thaumaturge - 75
Green
• Magician - 75
• Arcanist - 50
• Tenacity - 75
Red
• Depends on content.
I always run place 12 points into Quick Recovery and 0 into Bastion.
- Notes -
- I do not yet know what the best CP allocation will be in Morrowind. You will always stack 100 points into Tenacity (Heavy Attack resource restore).
Blue
• Elfborn - 24
• Elemental Expert - 100
• Staff Expert - 1
• Thaumaturge - 75
Green
• Magician - 75
• Arcanist - 50
• Tenacity - 75
Red
• Depends on content.
I always run place 12 points into Quick Recovery and 0 into Bastion.
- Notes -
- I do not yet know what the best CP allocation will be in Morrowind. You will always stack 100 points into Tenacity (Heavy Attack resource restore).
DPS Parses/Build Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjTGYetGYsBuild/Stats: 00:00 - 00:43
Solo Test 1: 00:44 - 02:15
Solo Test 2: 02:16 - 03:37
Solo Test 3: 03:38 - 04:52
Raid Buffed Test: 04:53 - 06:40
DPS Parse Data
- Solo -
• A solo DPS parse means that no one else is allowed to help me in any way whatsoever
I tested two different ways:
• Test 1 used my exact raid setup. No Elemental Drain or Blockade of Storms is applied.
• Test 2 included Elemental Drain being casted every other rotation instead of a Daedric Tomb. Elemental Drain replaced Empowered Ward on my skill bar for the sake of more accurate DPS test results.
• Test 3 was the same as Test 2, but also included the addition of a backbar Maelstrom Lightning Staff instead of a backbar Maelstrom Inferno Staff. This was meant to get as much DPS as possible on my own (Exploiter CP passive)
- Raid Buffed -
• These tests include the use of raid buffs that I would receive when running Veteran Trials. I will run my normal setup with the slight modifications of removing my shield in order to double-bar Inner Light. My allies will provide buffs.
• Raid-Buffed Test will provide me with 3 friends who will supply raid buffs to me. These buffs are Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Spell Power Cure, Stalwart Guard (Minor Force), Aggressive Warhorn, Combat Prayer, Roar of Alkosh, Crusher, Powerful Assault, and Worm's Raiment
Averaged DPS
Solo Test 1: 39688.7 DPS
Solo Test 2: 45315.4 DPS
Solo Test 3: 51903.8 DPS
Raid-Buffed Test: 71.1K
- Judging by mistakes made as well as the use of Heavy attacks, it would be highly feasible with more orb synergies (unlimited Magicka) and a perfect rotation to reach around 76K DPS in the Raid-Buffed test.
Magicka Sorcerers are probably wondering right now - Is this actually viable in trials? The answer is simple. Yes, it is, but you will not be able to fully benefit from this damage all of the time.
***However, it is extremely difficult to use.***
You will need to practice casting Daedric Tomb before you consistently hit enemies with at least 2 mines per cast (very difficult). Only when you master the rotation, manage resources well, and land 2-3 mines per cast on enemies will you notice a significant DPS increase. This build is particularly strong versus Vet trial bosses because they tend to stand still a lot and make this process easier (stationary targets become almost easy to consistently hit 3x with practice). It can be a good strategy when fighting a boss to hold off on casting 5x Daedric Tombs until you know you are perfectly lined up to activate all mines.
Keep in mind that not all targets can be hit by all three mines. You will often only damage these targets with two mines. As long as you land a single mine on the enemy, you will not be loosing DPS from the old rotation. Landing 2-3 mines is where the DPS boost begins to show in single target DPS. You are bound to deal higher AoE damage with this build rather than the current meta build.
This build feels more fun than the current meta Magicka Sorc we are all used to imo, though you may come to hate it due to the difficulty of managing higher DPS than the old build. In Morrowind, only the slightest adjustments (if any) will need to be made to sustain.
Can't say exactly if Magicka Sorcerers will still pull the highest DPS in Morrowind. Either way, they are bound to still be strong. Good luck out there my fellow Magicka Sorcerers!
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getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭Good job, thats such a nice build, but mines are already popular nowadays, not sure that whole guide is necessary, we everyone know what magsorc can actually do. Also I suggest you pushing DPS of other classes, because we are already tired of watching MagSorc's dps scores. It's kinda sad, that sorc can pull ST dps, which other classes can actually only dream, even as aoe...
[Edit to remove unneeded content]Edited by [Deleted User] on May 13, 2017 6:14PMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel3 -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭There is a lot of parses on youtube showing 70k+ dps, and even 60k st, being ranged, and I see ur build recommends to be melee, due to mines, right? So its even worse.Edited by getemshauna on May 13, 2017 8:16AMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »There is *** parses on youtube showing 70k+ dps, and even 60k st, being ranged, and I see ur build recommends to be melee, due to mines, right? So its even worse.
AoE damage can hit 70K+ DPS sometimes. However you never see single target DPS get this close.
Feel free not to use it. I know I'll use it because it is pulling higher damage than the current meta Magicka Sorcerer build.5 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭I enjoy studying builds and reading players new builds and theory crafts but when a player posts a sentence like this :
"Even if you are an "elite" player, you will easily learn a lot from this thread and likely try to utilize my build"
It comes across as incredibly big headed and egotistical. Im sure you can just post your build without patting yourself on the preverbial back. It turns a lot of people off.25 -
Don't take it the wrong way - but this is nothing new. You havn't really discovered anything...Cheesing dps with mines has been around for months on PC and console guys on our server have done t for a while too. Nice dps though. Pity it doesn't really work in trials due to weird hitboxes and sustain problems
6 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I enjoy studying builds and reading players new builds and theory crafts but when a player posts a sentence like this :
"Even if you are an "elite" player, you will easily learn a lot from this thread and likely try to utilize my build"
It comes across as incredibly big headed and egotistical. Im sure you can just post your build without patting yourself on the preverbial back. It turns a lot of people off.
Yeah I took that out as soon as I read it. I wrote this up late and didn't have time to be perfectly correct for all of the word nitpickers -_-
Above that sentence I did state how it was a very similar build to the current meta Magicka sorcerer but with a slightly different skill setup and different rotation.
It wasn't intended to be an a thread saying it was 100% my idea and no one has ever done anything similar. There is a basic gear/skill/rotation setup that obviously has to be followed for DPS to be even remotely high.
I just made a build using Daedric Tomb, which has been overlooked since the morph had its effects changed and it has been almost strictly seen as PvP skill.Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 8:34AM1 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vaoh You saw yesterdays' ESOlive? Depending on how severe will the pet damage nerf be, there might have a bad news for pet users. Apart from that, generic DPS overperforming on Magicka Sorcerer was also confired on ZOS side. On top of that, heavy attack damage nerf is also announced (they'll be meant as a sustain utility only) and light attacks damage increased to compensate. This basically leans towards rotation builds again.
Edited by F7sus4 on May 13, 2017 8:31AM1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭beardedblower wrote: »Don't take it the wrong way - but this is nothing new. You havn't really discovered anything...Cheesing dps with mines has been around for months on PC and console guys on our server have done t for a while too. Nice dps though. Pity it doesn't really work in trials due to weird hitboxes and sustain problems
It has managed to work surprisingly well in trials. Maybe it was not viable in the past, but in the current patch sustain is very easy thanks to Necrotic Orb. Landing 2 mines alone increases DPS though it is certainly difficult to land 3 mines on most targets.
Surprised by all of the immediate hate this is attracting Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 8:23AM5 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You saw yesterdays' ESOlive? Depending on how severe will the pet damage nerf be, there might have a bad news for pet users. Apart from that, generic DPS overperforming on Magicka Sorcerer was also confired on ZOS side.
The nerf is specifically targeting Volatile Familiar. Daedric Tomb isn't affected. Can't say exactly how great this will be in the new trial but it has proven to be incredible at DPS and more viable than most people think in current trial scenarios.Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 8:26AM0 -
Because you big note yourself on the forums all the time and it annoys people - as mentioned above. We know you're good - chill...8
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F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I don't think we can pretend this won't be rekt soon any longer. With 2 key elements of the build being nerfed (both Familiar and heavy-attack damage output again) I wouldn't be so optimistic to rely on the (to say, quite old) Deadric Tomb double/tripple burst, solely. Especially knowing how expensive the spell is, and where Morrowind meta goes.You saw yesterdays' ESOlive? Depending on how severe will the pet damage nerf be, there might have a bad news for pet users. Apart from that, generic DPS overperforming on Magicka Sorcerer was also confired on ZOS side.
The nerf is specifically targeting Volatile Familiar. Daedric Tomb isn't affected. Can't say exactly how great this will be in the new trial but it has proven to be incredible at DPS and more viable than most people think in current trial scenarios.
Edited by F7sus4 on May 13, 2017 8:48AM1 -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭cbeardedblower wrote: »Don't take it the wrong way - but this is nothing new. You havn't really discovered anything...Cheesing dps with mines has been around for months on PC and console guys on our server have done t for a while too. Nice dps though. Pity it doesn't really work in trials due to weird hitboxes and sustain problems
It has managed to work surprisingly well in trials. Maybe it was not viable in the past, but in the current patch sustain is very easy thanks to Necrotic Orb. Landing 2 mines alone increases DPS though it is certainly difficult to land 3 mines on most targets.
Surprised by all of the immediate hate this is attracting
Aight so, build is good at overall, but I don't think whole guide was needed, there is already few days until Morrowind drops and imho you should already focus on that content. I think everyone of us know what MagSorc can do, that dps no longer surprises, I guess. Anyway - good job but I honestly think mines are already popular when you are fighting dummy-like boss and you benefit more for being melee. Watching your parse is nice tho but as I told - not sure that guide is necessary.Edited by getemshauna on May 13, 2017 8:35AMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭beardedblower wrote: »Because you big note yourself on the forums all the time and it annoys people - as mentioned above. We know you're good - chill...
Nothing here says "I'm super good look at me!".
It says, here is a build that is pulling higher DPS than the current meta build thanks to a few tweaks, with in-game footage+data to back it up. However, it is very difficult to use.
7 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »cbeardedblower wrote: »Don't take it the wrong way - but this is nothing new. You havn't really discovered anything...Cheesing dps with mines has been around for months on PC and console guys on our server have done t for a while too. Nice dps though. Pity it doesn't really work in trials due to weird hitboxes and sustain problems
It has managed to work surprisingly well in trials. Maybe it was not viable in the past, but in the current patch sustain is very easy thanks to Necrotic Orb. Landing 2 mines alone increases DPS though it is certainly difficult to land 3 mines on most targets.
Surprised by all of the immediate hate this is attracting
Aight so, build is good at overall, but I don't think whole guide was needed, there is already few days until Morrowind drops and imho you should already focus on that content. I think everyone of us know what MagSorc can do, that dps no longer surprises, I guess. Anyway - good job but I honestly think mines are already popular when you are fighting dummy-like boss and you benefit more for being melee. Watching your parse is nice tho but as I told - not sure that guide is necessary.
I'm on console - no way to test PTS and I can't fully accommodate for those changes. The whole guide helps explain a lot more than the changes I made to the meta build.
I can't just say to take the meta build and change these things.... I wrote it all out neatly so anyone can find this and catch on.
The vid shows everything very clearly so anyone can follow as well with proof to back it up. If I had figured out that Daedric Tomb and this rotation were as strong as they were a month ago, I would have posted it then. Only realized its viability yesterday.1 -
Fishoscandi✭✭✭✭
Really impressive, GG! Edited by Fishoscandi on May 13, 2017 8:52AMFishoscandi - Orc NB
Cookie of Dough - Dunmer Templar
Smells Like Tree Spirit - Bosmer Sorc
EU PC3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't think we can pretend this won't be rekt soon any longer. With 2 key elements of the build being nerfed (both Familiar and heavy-attack damage output again) I wouldn't be so optimistic to rely on the (to say, quite old) Deadric Tomb double/tripple burst, solely. Especially knowing how expensive the spell is, and where Morrowind meta goes.You saw yesterdays' ESOlive? Depending on how severe will the pet damage nerf be, there might have a bad news for pet users. Apart from that, generic DPS overperforming on Magicka Sorcerer was also confired on ZOS side.
The nerf is specifically targeting Volatile Familiar. Daedric Tomb isn't affected. Can't say exactly how great this will be in the new trial but it has proven to be incredible at DPS and more viable than most people think in current trial scenarios.
Well Heavy Attack damage will decrease but the resource return will increase as well as the speed of the Heavy Attacks (as noted last ESO Live).
Familiar is getting nerfed for good reason.
Magicka Sorcerer will either be on par with the other classes in Morrowind or just slightly ahead. That Familiar nerf won't cause them to suddenly be weak by any means though
Daedric Tomb mines are putting out insane Damage when placed very well and if the rotation is followed smartly. I'd say that they can be safely relied on in Morrowind.
I have already tested with 0 points into Cost Reduction, 15% Magicka Recovery from, 100 points into Heavy Attack Mag return, and only 2% cost reduction per piece of light armor. It still worked even when solo with only Elemetal Drain up (though it was much more difficult).
I think the slight nerf to Minor Magickasteal will be negated by the Heavy Attack resource return buff. There are many factors. We will see 2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hmm so now I just need to lock boss on trial in tight space similar as You locked that skeletons to be damaged by all 3 mines
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F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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It has already been seen working flawlessly and especially after they made this morph triangle-shaped. For most Sorcs I saw using it in vMOL it worked really fine (maybe except the first boss).Daedric Tomb mines are putting out insane Damage when placed very well and if the rotation is followed smartly. I'd say that they can be safely relied on in Morrowind.
Minor movement actually helps activating the mines, especially if 1-2 of them were missed hits. And obviously when all of them were triggered before full rotation recast - no DPS was lost.Hmm so now I just need to lock boss on trial in tight space similar as You locked that skeletons to be damaged by all 3 mines
Edited by F7sus4 on May 13, 2017 9:37AM1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can see you are trying best to get sorcerer nerf with Morrowind release!
Believe me nerf to DPS is not issue in PVE for class balance, they should simply buff other classes!Edited by Lord_Eomer on May 13, 2017 9:50AM6 -
GilGalad✭✭✭✭✭The Idea of using mines in trials has been around for a long time, maybe even before console launch. Since the dmg of the mines is so high and straight dps is not their purpose they made trial bosses immune to more than one hit, but I don't remember the cooldown.
Im pretty sure it is still like that, but feel free to test it!
As long as only one mine hits you won't deal much more DPS than the current meta builds, but you can set records for magicka drain per second...2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hmm so now I just need to lock boss on trial in tight space similar as You locked that skeletons to be damaged by all 3 mines
Just as @F7sus4 has said, there is not going to be any DPS loss and enemies can move and hit missed mines. In AoE situations you always have 3 mines hit. In single target you'll land 2-3 if you can get comfortable with the manual aiming of Daedric Tomb.
• Aetherian Archive has 4 bosses.
3 bosses stand still
1 boss (Lightning Storm Atro) is tough to hit with 3 mines due to his hit box but doable with 2.
• Hel Ra Citadel has 4 bosses
All 4 of these bosses stand still
• Sanctum Ophidia has 4 bosses
All 4 of these bosses stand still
• Maw of Lorkhaj has three bosses
2 bosses stand still
1 of them (Zhaj'hassa) is difficult to fight due to having to maintain a decent distance when DPSing while he moves around a bit
All tough bosses must stand still for long periods of time by design since most your AoE DoTs placed on the ground need to hit. Bosses will obviously have brief periods of movement, but otherwise they remain standing still or else this content would be nearly impossible. Daedric Tomb is like these skills execpt it acts as a spammable DPS and is much harder to take full advatange of in single target fights due to needing 2-3 mines to hit.Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 9:55AM1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »I can see you are trying best to get sorcerer nerf with Morrowind release!
Believe me nerf to DPS is not issue in PVE for class balance, they should simply buff other classes!
I wish man!
Judging by ZOS actions so far, the "DPS Expectation" so to speak is being set at the level of Magicka DKs and Magicka Templars. Mag NBs were buffed to their general level of DPS as a result.
By this same concept Magicka Sorcerer needs nerfs, and Mag Warden needs big buffs. This is why they've confirmed a Volatile Familiar nerf and the goal of making Mag Warden viable last ESO Live.
Not gonna work out for Mag Sorcs.... might as well provide more incentive for nerfs
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Idea of using mines in trials has been around for a long time, maybe even before console launch. Since the dmg of the mines is so high and straight dps is not their purpose they made trial bosses immune to more than one hit, but I don't remember the cooldown.
Im pretty sure it is still like that, but feel free to test it!
As long as only one mine hits you won't deal much more DPS than the current meta builds, but you can set records for magicka drain per second...
I haven't noticed any cooldown like that, though I'd agree it would make sense if they implemented one
The DPS boost is worth the Magicka drain+heavy attacks. It results in a large net DPS boost from the sheer damage caused by hitting 2-3 of those mines per cast on a target. Also it's nice because you can totally melt troublesome adds like Sun Eaters.0 -
SkeironnSoul Shrivenin trial can you stack mine like this ? because you use Wall behind the skeleton0
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭in trial can you stack mine like this ? because you use Wall behind the skeleton
Yep, you can. Didn't mean to cause any confusion there!
It will depend on the hitbox of the boss how difficult it is to effectively use Daedric Tomb. Some are super easy (ex. 2nd boss of AA) while others are so difficult you can only expect 2 mines to ever land (ex. 1st boss of AA).
I'm pretty sure those mines traveled the full distance outward in my recorded DPS tests. I have managed the same thing on skeletons without walls behind them as well.0 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »There is *** parses on youtube showing 70k+ dps, and even 60k st, being ranged, and I see ur build recommends to be melee, due to mines, right? So its even worse.
AoE damage can hit 70K+ DPS sometimes. However you never see single target DPS get this close.
Feel free not to use it. I know I'll use it because it is pulling higher damage than the current meta Magicka Sorcerer build.
There are 60K+ ST Sorcs out there Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »There is *** parses on youtube showing 70k+ dps, and even 60k st, being ranged, and I see ur build recommends to be melee, due to mines, right? So its even worse.
AoE damage can hit 70K+ DPS sometimes. However you never see single target DPS get this close.
Feel free not to use it. I know I'll use it because it is pulling higher damage than the current meta Magicka Sorcerer build.
There are 60K+ ST Sorcs out there
Oh I know! Sorcs can hit around 63K-64K this way when they do everything perfectly with raid buffs. Possibly even more. I've tested this many times myself since I run Vet trials all the time and I spend 95%+ of my time on my Mag Sorc PvE DPS main
Using this skill setup/rotation has helped me pull in the 73-74K as often as the usual build gave me 63K-64K. It's unreal how large that DPS boost is.
Making full use of this DPS is possible on certain stationary bosses. Others will get hit by a mix of 2 or 3 mines. The more annoying bosses will often reliably take damage from only 2 mines.
It requires waaay more effort though and to not make mistakes, or else you obv won't see much difference.Edited by Vaoh on May 13, 2017 10:27AM2 -
GilGalad✭✭✭✭✭The Idea of using mines in trials has been around for a long time, maybe even before console launch. Since the dmg of the mines is so high and straight dps is not their purpose they made trial bosses immune to more than one hit, but I don't remember the cooldown.
Im pretty sure it is still like that, but feel free to test it!
As long as only one mine hits you won't deal much more DPS than the current meta builds, but you can set records for magicka drain per second...
I haven't noticed any cooldown like that, though I'd agree it would make sense if they implemented one
The DPS boost is worth the Magicka drain+heavy attacks. It results in a large net DPS boost from the sheer damage caused by hitting 2-3 of those mines per cast on a target. Also it's nice because you can totally melt troublesome adds like Sun Eaters.
As far as I remember, people used mines to drain magicka when Santum came out. I'm not sure if the bosses consumed all mines but did only get damaged by one, or if they activated only one. I think they consumed all when the hitbox was big enough, but took limited dmg. If that's still the case the use of mines is pointless, so someone should go out and test it...
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SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭NiclasFridholm wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »There is *** parses on youtube showing 70k+ dps, and even 60k st, being ranged, and I see ur build recommends to be melee, due to mines, right? So its even worse.
AoE damage can hit 70K+ DPS sometimes. However you never see single target DPS get this close.
Feel free not to use it. I know I'll use it because it is pulling higher damage than the current meta Magicka Sorcerer build.
There are 60K+ ST Sorcs out there
Oh I know! Sorcs can hit around 63K-64K this way when they do everything perfectly with raid buffs. Possibly even more. I've tested this many times myself since I run Vet trials all the time and I spend 95%+ of my time on my Mag Sorc PvE DPS main
Using this skill setup/rotation has helped me pull in the 73-74K as often as the usual build gave me 63K-64K. It's unreal how large that DPS boost is.
Making full use of this DPS is possible on certain stationary bosses. Others will get hit by a mix of 2 or 3 mines. The more annoying bosses will often reliably take damage from only 2 mines.
Like gil said unless they changed it boss's wont proc/take damage from more than 1 mine at a timePS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
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