The social bottleneck of Raiding is insurmountable

WalksonGraves

I've been playing eso since launch on xbox and am stuck at raid content. Every time I've actually done a raid it's went well but I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been able to try. Here's why:

Raid groups don't need tons of tanks. You essentially have to start your own guild and recruit everyone if that is your role.

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

This requires as much time and effort as running a small business with an unpaid staff that has to be constantly interacted with or they wander off. I don't play video games to be a social butterfly. Talking to random people on xbox is generally abhorrent.

This is a game, nothing should be this much work. Fix the damn lfg and add raids to it. If I can pug Zul'Grurub I can pug anything eso can throw at me.

And for what? Some ugly blue lightning skin? Some tanking set no one uses?
There isn't even a reward to justify the effort other than waving your e peen around on the leader boards.

DRXHarbinger

Do you really want DW stamplar healers popping up for LFG VMOL (not that it works anyway) There did used to be a trial finder at launch on console but the arguments were hilarious, HA Stam sorc healers FTW! (before twilight actually healed)

WalksonGraves

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Do you really want DW stamplar healers popping up for LFG VMOL (not that it works anyway) There did used to be a trial finder at launch on console but the arguments were hilarious, HA Stam sorc healers FTW! (before twilight actually healed)

Ideally in lfg you'd see the level and class of people in the group and then decide to join.

FlyLionel

I don't see why not for normal trials. As long as there is a certain requirement so that DW stamplar healers are not ruining the group. As for vet..well..can we have any percentages thrown out? completion rate wise? Lol..

Shad0wfire99

Not as hard as it may seem. If you're just standing around in Craglorn using text chat to find raid groups, you're gonna have a hard time finding a group worth sticking with. I'd suggest hitting the Guild Recruitment page here, or try ESO Guilds on Reddit. There are lots of groups out there, and GOOD tanks are in short supply.

WalksonGraves

I tried that, I'm in 4 guilds as it is. Every guild leader ive met is also main tank.

DRXHarbinger

WalksonGraves wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Do you really want DW stamplar healers popping up for LFG VMOL (not that it works anyway) There did used to be a trial finder at launch on console but the arguments were hilarious, HA Stam sorc healers FTW! (before twilight actually healed)

Ideally in lfg you'd see the level and class of people in the group and then decide to join.

Ideally yes, but don't count on ZOS implementing it correctly. In an ideal world at the start a leader is assigned to the group and they see a queue of people wanting to join and let them in and bang group builds up.

DW Stamplar healers can kind of be sieved out by seeing the name "spins to win" and "Hurricanrana" (My stam sorcs name) Most of us Xbox players aren't that imaginative to make it hard to tell half the time.

Or they can just show their 3 main stats to see what's glaringly obvious, either way you'll end up with some kind of extreme right wing leader picking the group (filter pulls out the term I'm looking for here)

Peekachu99

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Not as hard as it may seem. If you're just standing around in Craglorn using text chat to find raid groups, you're gonna have a hard time finding a group worth sticking with. I'd suggest hitting the Guild Recruitment page here, or try ESO Guilds on Reddit. There are lots of groups out there, and GOOD tanks are in short supply.

That doesn't change the fact that ESO's social tools are lagging behind pretty much every other modern MMORPG in existence.

Trial Finder (for normal); LFG Panel, for everything else (and can be listed with CP requirements etc). It just needs to be in the game--and was for Trials, as already pointed out. This is basic functionality for social spaces. Basic.

I'll probably swap back to FFXIV a few months after Morrowind is cleared, for exactly this reason.

KerinKor

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

It works perfectly well in other games fore those that want that level of commitment; WOW is of course the prime example but by no means the only one, LoTRO's raids are similar in their requirements.

That said, WOW's LFR makes raiding available to a lot more people and ZOS could do a lot better at providing 'raid' content for those for whom the current limited raid tiering doesn't provide them with content they can do.

WalksonGraves

KerinKor wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

It works perfectly well in other games fore those that want that level of commitment; WOW is of course the prime example but by no means the only one, LoTRO's raids are similar in their requirements.

That said, WOW's LFR makes raiding available to a lot more people and ZOS could do a lot better at providing 'raid' content for those for whom the current limited raid tiering doesn't provide them with content they can do.

I had the same problem in wow, getting 40 people online at the same time for a few hours straight is hard for a company with paid employees let alone gamers.

Keep_Door

Welcome to mmo raiding ...?

idk

First of all, if you think raid groups just form or that GF will put together decent rise groups your highly delusional. It takes work to make a raid group and keep it going. Your comment that

Second, no one has to form their own guild to raid. You can form your own raids in the guild and that's less work. If your not in an appropriate guild then find one

Third, most good tanks can also DPS and there's no reason to not. Many of the best tanks can fill a dps role when needed, usually on a different character. You'll meet more people and get more opportunities.

Finally, get versions of the trials should NEVER be added to GF. We certainly don't need the QQ from moderate players about his bad (they think) everyone is and all random runs in vet trials will likely end in failure.

Get off your arse and make it happen but QQ on the forums will not get you raiding.

Edit: seriously consider finding a decent raid guild. Not only will it being more opportunity to someone who can tank fine but they probably have people that can help tanks better understand the fights and how to tank them more effectively.

rustic_potato

I main a tank. I had the same issue, teams already have tanks. I joined my team as a DPS and then eventually built enough of a reputation in the team as a capable player and rotated my tank into raids.

Instant gratification is what you are looking for. Stop whining on the forums and work for it. ESO is an MMO and is meant to be progressive. Earn it.

DanaDark

Standard MMO raiding since the dawn of MMOs. Fact of life. Raids only need 1 or 2 tanks, adding more simply hinders raid performance.

I don't raid yet, and my main is a tank. I figure any guild that eventually lands me will either let me be a secondary tank if they were actively recruiting tanks and found me, or play alts with me where I can tank for their groups as they level up, and their own tanks can tank for my groups as my healer and DPS alts level up. A give and take.

I like tanking, but prefer the old 'off tanking' in raid settings where I can throw out heals and extra buffs and run and grab random mob XYZ if needed.

Overall, I ain't worried, and neither should you OP. If you want to join a guild and be a tank, let that be known. If they don't need a tank, they might ask you to play a DPS class. Roll with it, have fun. And if a tanking position opens up, be sure to chime in.

Zoner

It's kind of like being stuck between a rock and a hard place for new tanks wanting to do trials. Often only one or two are needed, you need to get your gear together, and training new tanks is a painful process for a raid group which involves a lot of wiping, time spent and infinite patience, because a bad tank can ruin a raid very easily. Everyone goes apeshit if the tank screws up, but if a dps is screwing up, a lot of the time nobody will notice.

Maybe establish yourself as another role on a different toon in a raid guild and offer yourself as an offtank or replacement tank who's willing to learn

DPShiro

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I've been playing eso since launch on xbox and am stuck at raid content. Every time I've actually done a raid it's went well but I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been able to try. Here's why:

Raid groups don't need tons of tanks. You essentially have to start your own guild and recruit everyone if that is your role.

Finding 11 people minimum who all have the right gear and level and class for raiding who ALSO happen to have synchronized schedules across multiple time zones is basically impossible by meeting people in game.

This requires as much time and effort as running a small business with an unpaid staff that has to be constantly interacted with or they wander off. I don't play video games to be a social butterfly. Talking to random people on xbox is generally abhorrent.

This is a game, nothing should be this much work. Fix the damn lfg and add raids to it. If I can pug Zul'Grurub I can pug anything eso can throw at me.

And for what? Some ugly blue lightning skin? Some tanking set no one uses?
There isn't even a reward to justify the effort other than waving your e peen around on the leader boards.

Yeah because Roar of Alkosh is a totally worthless set for tanks and not at all used by every good main and off tank.

And if you are good at your role, it's easy to get in a good team/guild. When guilds grow they spawn multiple teams.

amasuriel

If you join decent guilds, with training groups, there is plenty of opportunity to tank, and if you prove to be good, you will be able to rotate in on progression runs.

You will need Alkosh to be considered for more than training runs though, it's just too powerful.

Tasear

Instead the should have a lobby for trials. Where the leader can accept people

Personofsecrets

@WalksonGraves , I just am stopping by to tell you that I'm sorry.

I've been exactly where you have been. Being in such a situation also makes it harder to get out of such a situation.

Without raiding several times a week one may not have the gear, metagame understanding, or very specific understanding of what a group wants.

Without those achievements one cannot raid often.

In order to overcome this issue, I've basically had to stop caring about achieving new heights.

As you write, the social barrier is insurmountable. It isn't worth wasting time trying to become better. It isn't worth giving input to teams. Much of tanking, much of the game, just isn't worth the bother because, in the end, even if the developers aren't in the process of destroying PVE, the social barrier will destroy PVE.

I wish you the best of luck. Many players realize the same thing that we have. The only success I've had with passing the social barrier is when enough other well known tanks have quit. I then get a few fleeting moments of being able to enjoy the game before the barrier bounces back.

Really, best of luck.

Personofsecrets

rustic_potato wrote: »

I main a tank. I had the same issue, teams already have tanks. I joined my team as a DPS and then eventually built enough of a reputation in the team as a capable player and rotated my tank into raids.

Instant gratification is what you are looking for. Stop whining on the forums and work for it. ESO is an MMO and is meant to be progressive. Earn it.

Why would you tell someone that has been working toward something since xbox launch that they are looking for instant gratification?

DjMuscleboy02

Are you on NA or EU?

IronCrystal

I will say I ran into the same issue as a Healer.

I initially joined a progression group as a dps because its much easier to get in as one due to your relatively low impact on group performance for the most part (definitely exceptions like twins).

After learning the mechanics and asking a lot of questions and learning from other great healers, I asked to try healing and became the core healer for my progression group.

After practicing in my progression group for a while, I was picked up by a new serious raiding guild that was just starting up. Being in that group has taught me so much and I pushed myself to improve until I made core.

It takes dedication to work your way up.

I will say it helped a lot that I was in a social guild with a lot of raiders in it, so it was easier for me to get connected to the raid scene as I had easy contact to good players, and the guild leader of this social guild started his own progression group which I joined.

Animus-ESO

You will never survive in many other MMO's you think 11 people is hard to find? PHAHAHAHAHAH!
Jumping jesus I remember waiting around HOURS! to start a raid in DAoC, or SW:G

KingYogi415

You think you can pug vmaw?? Maybe if all 12 have all ready have the skins.

The normal trials are easy enough to be roleplayed though by bow/bow and hybrid dps.

Most people do NOT start off tanking vet trials. It's the hardest role, you should be runing as a DPS to learn the mechanics.

If you only have 1 character your chances of even being ready for ver trials are very slim.

Oakmontowls_ESO

Maybe you can't find groups because of your tanking builds.

KingJ

@WalksonGraves Are you Xbox NA or EU?If NA send me a message on here I can help you out.

Oompuh

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

clocksstoppe

How to fix this: Add trials to group finder (and fix the *** group finder).

WalksonGraves

Oompuh wrote: »

There are many guilds looking for good tanks. GOOD tanks. Ones that don't use special snowflake argonian nb non sap pirate skeleton, no ebon alkosh, not giving anything to the group. No one's looking for that

Someone is salty that they can't come up with their own build. Fyi I add group crit through nb passives, I am constantly putting all aggro'd targets off balance and can out ult a dk 2:1.
Keep parroting the "meta" from 2015 it's going to be even less relevant in morrowind.

Jayman1000

I couldn't agree more. They really should make raid content much much more accessible to less than hardcore players. Why not have different difficulty tiers allowing pugs to have a chance on the lower tiers while higher tiers would require hardcore raiding skills/players and of course give much better rewards? And why does ZOS struggle so immensely on creating a working lfg system?

OutLaw_Nynx

Isn't this the guy that claims that bone pirate is bis for a tank? No wonder you can't get raids. You have no desire to listen to what people say and think you're always right : s

I don't think you know anything about tanking. No one uses Alkosh? Interesting.